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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 11:15 AM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

Peter C wrote:
"Alan S" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C"
wrote:

The following are Joslin's guideline essentials (shown as
approximate percents of daily calories):

"Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at
least 20-35 grams of fiber.


Hi Alan,
that sentence looks like badly written garbage - it seems to be suggesting
that fibre could contribute to the 40% of your calories from carbs but fibre
is generally said not to contribute any calories so you could not get part
of your 40% of calories from 20-35g of fibre.
Quote Joslin Guide to Diabetes page 66 "Fiber is the structural portion of
fruits, vegetables,grains, nuts and legumes ...fibers cannot be digested
.....Therefore, fiber does not provide calories".
Seems to be a bit of a contradiction between what Joslin are saying in their
published Guide and what they are saying on their website. The bit you quote
looks like a schoolboy howler, they should have had a separate
recommendation for fibre alongside carbs,protein and fats.
BTW if you are such fan of Joslin have you tried any of their 45g carb
breakfasts ?
The 40% recommendation looks like a suspiciously nicely rounded figure -
difficult to hit exactly all the time - are you in **** street if you have
39% or 41 % of calories from carbs ? At least ADA, sensibly, gives a range
( 55-65% ) to work on.


It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are fictional.

The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT).

May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor Peter whom I love
unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed?

  #2  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 11:57 AM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

Ozgirl wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are

fictional.

The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the

body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT).


And after that the beta cells miraculously multiply to leave
us with the pancreas we were born with?


Many with type-2 diabetes have enough beta cells remaining to produce
enough endogenous insulin to maintain euglycemia once the VAT is gone
and the body regains normal insulin sensitivity.

I have no VAT yet strangely enough I am not cured of type 2
diabetes.


If it is true that you have lost all your VAT so that you now have
normal insulin sensitivity but still have hyperglycemia, then this
intervention of losing the VAT occurred **after** you have lost too
many beta islet cells.

My insulin resistance is vastly improved


Without VAT, your insulin sensitivity should now be normal.

but one
pig out on carbs will pull me up smartly and remind me of my
status.


When I hit my thumb with a hammer, the pain reminds me that I am still
human.

But I am preaching to the choir, you are a doctor and know
all that already..


Being a born-again Christian, I also know the truth.

May GOD continue to heal your heart now that HE has cured your
diabetes, dear neighbor Ozgirl whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed?

  #3  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 01:05 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
Salty Dog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Peter C wrote:

"Alan S" wrote in message
. ..

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C"
wrote:

The following are Joslin's guideline essentials (shown as
approximate percents of daily calories):

"Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at
least 20-35 grams of fiber.


Hi Alan,
that sentence looks like badly written garbage - it seems to be suggesting
that fibre could contribute to the 40% of your calories from carbs but fibre
is generally said not to contribute any calories so you could not get part
of your 40% of calories from 20-35g of fibre.
Quote Joslin Guide to Diabetes page 66 "Fiber is the structural portion of
fruits, vegetables,grains, nuts and legumes ...fibers cannot be digested
.....Therefore, fiber does not provide calories".
Seems to be a bit of a contradiction between what Joslin are saying in their
published Guide and what they are saying on their website. The bit you quote
looks like a schoolboy howler, they should have had a separate
recommendation for fibre alongside carbs,protein and fats.
BTW if you are such fan of Joslin have you tried any of their 45g carb
breakfasts ?
The 40% recommendation looks like a suspiciously nicely rounded figure -
difficult to hit exactly all the time - are you in **** street if you have
39% or 41 % of calories from carbs ? At least ADA, sensibly, gives a range
( 55-65% ) to work on.



It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are fictional.

The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT).



Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral
adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is
visible, yet I still have diabetes. Diabetes in very good control, but I
am still diabetic.

Why are you wrong so often?

Salty
  #4  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 01:20 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

Salty Dog wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Peter C wrote:

"Alan S" wrote in message
. ..

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C"
wrote:

The following are Joslin's guideline essentials (shown as
approximate percents of daily calories):

"Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at
least 20-35 grams of fiber.

Hi Alan,
that sentence looks like badly written garbage - it seems to be suggesting
that fibre could contribute to the 40% of your calories from carbs but fibre
is generally said not to contribute any calories so you could not get part
of your 40% of calories from 20-35g of fibre.
Quote Joslin Guide to Diabetes page 66 "Fiber is the structural portion of
fruits, vegetables,grains, nuts and legumes ...fibers cannot be digested
.....Therefore, fiber does not provide calories".
Seems to be a bit of a contradiction between what Joslin are saying in their
published Guide and what they are saying on their website. The bit you quote
looks like a schoolboy howler, they should have had a separate
recommendation for fibre alongside carbs,protein and fats.
BTW if you are such fan of Joslin have you tried any of their 45g carb
breakfasts ?
The 40% recommendation looks like a suspiciously nicely rounded figure -
difficult to hit exactly all the time - are you in **** street if you have
39% or 41 % of calories from carbs ? At least ADA, sensibly, gives a range
( 55-65% ) to work on.



It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are fictional.

The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT).


Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral
adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is
visible, yet I still have diabetes.


A person can have very little subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) and
**still** have clinically significant VAT.

Diabetes in very good control, but I am still diabetic.


If you still have insulin resistance, you still have VAT.

Why are you wrong so often?


Because I am not GOD, Who most assured without doubt, I know to be
kind, just, and right.

May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed?

  #5  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 05:53 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diet
Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Chung Illogic

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Salty Dog wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Peter C wrote:

"Alan S" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C"
wrote:



Why are you wrong so often?


Because I am not GOD, Who most assured without doubt, I know to be
kind, just, and right.


Ahhh, yes, but you told us repeatedly that "he" guides you in everything
you say or do, Earthquack.
  #6  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 06:55 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
Salty Dog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:


The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT).


Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral
adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is
visible, yet I still have diabetes.



A person can have very little subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) and
**still** have clinically significant VAT.


I know that and so does just about anyone with an iq higher than room
temperature who has been following recent research. I was not talking
about subcutaneous fat.


Diabetes in very good control, but I am still diabetic.



If you still have insulin resistance, you still have VAT.



Absolutely untrue. I have recently had (abdominally), an ultra scan, a
CT scan, an MRI then surgery for the purpose of determining whether
several growths were malignant or not. They were eventually determined
to be non-malignant, but *three* of the specialists involved in this
month long series of tests commented on the fact that I had no
discernible fat. It even posed a problem with suturing after surgery.

You truly are incompetent and possibly dangerous if you promote the
belief that diabetes is cured by the loss of visceral adipose tissue.
Diabetes can be controlled to a level when symptoms are negligible, but
it can *not* be cured by losing fat of any kind.

Excessive visceral fat may mean a greatly increased risk, but it does
not follow that no visceral fat does not mean that you are somehow
immune or cured. You seem to take a very naive and simplistic approach
to most issues.

Any chance of getting a refund from your Alma Mater? You would appear to
have some very valid grounds.


Salty

  #7  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 07:16 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

Salty Dog wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT).

Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral
adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is
visible, yet I still have diabetes.


A person can have very little subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) and
**still** have clinically significant VAT.


I know that and so does just about anyone with an iq higher than room
temperature who has been following recent research. I was not talking
about subcutaneous fat.


Whether or not we see your spine depends on SAT and not VAT.

Diabetes in very good control, but I am still diabetic.


If you still have insulin resistance, you still have VAT.


Absolutely untrue. I have recently had (abdominally), an ultra scan,


This would not show VAT.

a
CT scan


This would not show VAT.

, an MRI then surgery for the purpose of determining whether
several growths were malignant or not.


This can show VAT with the right weighting of images.

They were eventually determined
to be non-malignant, but *three* of the specialists involved in this
month long series of tests commented on the fact that I had no
discernible fat. It even posed a problem with suturing after surgery.


This would be a confirmation that you had very little SAT but says
nothing about VAT.

You truly are incompetent and possibly dangerous if you promote the
belief that diabetes is cured by the loss of visceral adipose tissue.


The key to curing type-2 diabetes is to lose the VAT.

Using stem cells to grow more beta cells for a cure would be
ineffective because the new beta cells would be subjected to the same
toxic environment driven by VAT as that which killed the original beta
cells.

Diabetes can be controlled to a level when symptoms are negligible, but
it can *not* be cured by losing fat of any kind.


We routinely see morbidly obese type-2 diabetics cured of their
diabetes after bariatic surgery causes the loss of VAT (lost early when
there is intake restriction).

Indeed, those using the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach see an immediate
reduction in their hypoglycemic medications as their intake decreases
and VAT is lost.

Excessive visceral fat may mean a greatly increased risk, but it does
not follow that no visceral fat does not mean that you are somehow
immune or cured.


When you address the cause (VAT) of a disease (T2DM), you bring about
cures.

You seem to take a very naive and simplistic approach
to most issues.


Truth is simple.

Any chance of getting a refund from your Alma Mater?


No.

You would appear to have some very valid grounds.


Actually, I remain in their debt:

http://EmoryCardiology.com

May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
neighbor whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed?

  #8  
Old September 3rd, 2006, 07:16 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,alt.support.diet,alt.christnet.christianlife
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default GOD is kind, just and right.

Al wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Salty Dog wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Peter C wrote:

"Alan S" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C"
wrote:



Why are you wrong so often?


Because I am not GOD, Who most assured without doubt, I know to be
kind, just, and right.


Ahhh, yes, but you told us repeatedly that "he" guides you in everything
you say or do


HE does. Now if HE did everything for me, then everything would be
perfect.

, Earthquack.


Name-calling simply shows how lost you remain.

  #9  
Old September 5th, 2006, 08:55 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

"The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT)."

Peer reviewed research please. There is not now any "cure" for diabetes
but only reversing some of the symptoms sometimes with dietary control
exercise and medications as needed to maintain near normal glucose
levels.

The metabolic disorder remains and will instantly show up with a
standard glucose test.


Inner abdominal fat is only one part of the entire disorder picture.

Without research in support this opinion is of equal value with that of
any random person on the street and does not improve with the constant
retelling.
  #10  
Old September 5th, 2006, 11:18 PM posted to sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.diabetes,misc.health.diabetes,sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006

"Many with type-2 diabetes have enough beta cells remaining to produce
enough endogenous insulin to maintain euglycemia once the VAT is gone
and the body regains normal insulin sensitivity."


You are woefully out of touch with the current literature on vat and
diabetes in general. Vat is a secondary effect of insulin resistance
not the cause of it. When developed it contributes to feed back to
resistance but is not the cause of it. As such it is not the cause of
diabetes and even when reduced diabetes remains. Such a black and white
single cause view of any part of the complexity of biology is a problem.
 




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