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#1
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
Peter C wrote:
"Alan S" wrote in message ... On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C" wrote: The following are Joslin's guideline essentials (shown as approximate percents of daily calories): "Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at least 20-35 grams of fiber. Hi Alan, that sentence looks like badly written garbage - it seems to be suggesting that fibre could contribute to the 40% of your calories from carbs but fibre is generally said not to contribute any calories so you could not get part of your 40% of calories from 20-35g of fibre. Quote Joslin Guide to Diabetes page 66 "Fiber is the structural portion of fruits, vegetables,grains, nuts and legumes ...fibers cannot be digested .....Therefore, fiber does not provide calories". Seems to be a bit of a contradiction between what Joslin are saying in their published Guide and what they are saying on their website. The bit you quote looks like a schoolboy howler, they should have had a separate recommendation for fibre alongside carbs,protein and fats. BTW if you are such fan of Joslin have you tried any of their 45g carb breakfasts ? The 40% recommendation looks like a suspiciously nicely rounded figure - difficult to hit exactly all the time - are you in **** street if you have 39% or 41 % of calories from carbs ? At least ADA, sensibly, gives a range ( 55-65% ) to work on. It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are fictional. The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of visceral adipose tissue (VAT). May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor Peter whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed? |
#2
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
Ozgirl wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are fictional. The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of visceral adipose tissue (VAT). And after that the beta cells miraculously multiply to leave us with the pancreas we were born with? Many with type-2 diabetes have enough beta cells remaining to produce enough endogenous insulin to maintain euglycemia once the VAT is gone and the body regains normal insulin sensitivity. I have no VAT yet strangely enough I am not cured of type 2 diabetes. If it is true that you have lost all your VAT so that you now have normal insulin sensitivity but still have hyperglycemia, then this intervention of losing the VAT occurred **after** you have lost too many beta islet cells. My insulin resistance is vastly improved Without VAT, your insulin sensitivity should now be normal. but one pig out on carbs will pull me up smartly and remind me of my status. When I hit my thumb with a hammer, the pain reminds me that I am still human. But I am preaching to the choir, you are a doctor and know all that already.. Being a born-again Christian, I also know the truth. May GOD continue to heal your heart now that HE has cured your diabetes, dear neighbor Ozgirl whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed? |
#3
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Peter C wrote: "Alan S" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C" wrote: The following are Joslin's guideline essentials (shown as approximate percents of daily calories): "Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at least 20-35 grams of fiber. Hi Alan, that sentence looks like badly written garbage - it seems to be suggesting that fibre could contribute to the 40% of your calories from carbs but fibre is generally said not to contribute any calories so you could not get part of your 40% of calories from 20-35g of fibre. Quote Joslin Guide to Diabetes page 66 "Fiber is the structural portion of fruits, vegetables,grains, nuts and legumes ...fibers cannot be digested .....Therefore, fiber does not provide calories". Seems to be a bit of a contradiction between what Joslin are saying in their published Guide and what they are saying on their website. The bit you quote looks like a schoolboy howler, they should have had a separate recommendation for fibre alongside carbs,protein and fats. BTW if you are such fan of Joslin have you tried any of their 45g carb breakfasts ? The 40% recommendation looks like a suspiciously nicely rounded figure - difficult to hit exactly all the time - are you in **** street if you have 39% or 41 % of calories from carbs ? At least ADA, sensibly, gives a range ( 55-65% ) to work on. It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are fictional. The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of visceral adipose tissue (VAT). Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is visible, yet I still have diabetes. Diabetes in very good control, but I am still diabetic. Why are you wrong so often? Salty |
#4
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
Salty Dog wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Peter C wrote: "Alan S" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C" wrote: The following are Joslin's guideline essentials (shown as approximate percents of daily calories): "Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at least 20-35 grams of fiber. Hi Alan, that sentence looks like badly written garbage - it seems to be suggesting that fibre could contribute to the 40% of your calories from carbs but fibre is generally said not to contribute any calories so you could not get part of your 40% of calories from 20-35g of fibre. Quote Joslin Guide to Diabetes page 66 "Fiber is the structural portion of fruits, vegetables,grains, nuts and legumes ...fibers cannot be digested .....Therefore, fiber does not provide calories". Seems to be a bit of a contradiction between what Joslin are saying in their published Guide and what they are saying on their website. The bit you quote looks like a schoolboy howler, they should have had a separate recommendation for fibre alongside carbs,protein and fats. BTW if you are such fan of Joslin have you tried any of their 45g carb breakfasts ? The 40% recommendation looks like a suspiciously nicely rounded figure - difficult to hit exactly all the time - are you in **** street if you have 39% or 41 % of calories from carbs ? At least ADA, sensibly, gives a range ( 55-65% ) to work on. It truth, all such numbers for all such diets are fictional. The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of visceral adipose tissue (VAT). Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is visible, yet I still have diabetes. A person can have very little subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) and **still** have clinically significant VAT. Diabetes in very good control, but I am still diabetic. If you still have insulin resistance, you still have VAT. Why are you wrong so often? Because I am not GOD, Who most assured without doubt, I know to be kind, just, and right. May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed? |
#5
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Chung Illogic
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Salty Dog wrote: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Peter C wrote: "Alan S" wrote in message ... On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C" wrote: Why are you wrong so often? Because I am not GOD, Who most assured without doubt, I know to be kind, just, and right. Ahhh, yes, but you told us repeatedly that "he" guides you in everything you say or do, Earthquack. |
#6
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of visceral adipose tissue (VAT). Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is visible, yet I still have diabetes. A person can have very little subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) and **still** have clinically significant VAT. I know that and so does just about anyone with an iq higher than room temperature who has been following recent research. I was not talking about subcutaneous fat. Diabetes in very good control, but I am still diabetic. If you still have insulin resistance, you still have VAT. Absolutely untrue. I have recently had (abdominally), an ultra scan, a CT scan, an MRI then surgery for the purpose of determining whether several growths were malignant or not. They were eventually determined to be non-malignant, but *three* of the specialists involved in this month long series of tests commented on the fact that I had no discernible fat. It even posed a problem with suturing after surgery. You truly are incompetent and possibly dangerous if you promote the belief that diabetes is cured by the loss of visceral adipose tissue. Diabetes can be controlled to a level when symptoms are negligible, but it can *not* be cured by losing fat of any kind. Excessive visceral fat may mean a greatly increased risk, but it does not follow that no visceral fat does not mean that you are somehow immune or cured. You seem to take a very naive and simplistic approach to most issues. Any chance of getting a refund from your Alma Mater? You would appear to have some very valid grounds. Salty |
#7
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
Salty Dog wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of visceral adipose tissue (VAT). Once again Mr Chung, you are incorrect. I have absolutely no visceral adipose fat, if I pull my stomach muscles in very hard, my spine is visible, yet I still have diabetes. A person can have very little subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) and **still** have clinically significant VAT. I know that and so does just about anyone with an iq higher than room temperature who has been following recent research. I was not talking about subcutaneous fat. Whether or not we see your spine depends on SAT and not VAT. Diabetes in very good control, but I am still diabetic. If you still have insulin resistance, you still have VAT. Absolutely untrue. I have recently had (abdominally), an ultra scan, This would not show VAT. a CT scan This would not show VAT. , an MRI then surgery for the purpose of determining whether several growths were malignant or not. This can show VAT with the right weighting of images. They were eventually determined to be non-malignant, but *three* of the specialists involved in this month long series of tests commented on the fact that I had no discernible fat. It even posed a problem with suturing after surgery. This would be a confirmation that you had very little SAT but says nothing about VAT. You truly are incompetent and possibly dangerous if you promote the belief that diabetes is cured by the loss of visceral adipose tissue. The key to curing type-2 diabetes is to lose the VAT. Using stem cells to grow more beta cells for a cure would be ineffective because the new beta cells would be subjected to the same toxic environment driven by VAT as that which killed the original beta cells. Diabetes can be controlled to a level when symptoms are negligible, but it can *not* be cured by losing fat of any kind. We routinely see morbidly obese type-2 diabetics cured of their diabetes after bariatic surgery causes the loss of VAT (lost early when there is intake restriction). Indeed, those using the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach see an immediate reduction in their hypoglycemic medications as their intake decreases and VAT is lost. Excessive visceral fat may mean a greatly increased risk, but it does not follow that no visceral fat does not mean that you are somehow immune or cured. When you address the cause (VAT) of a disease (T2DM), you bring about cures. You seem to take a very naive and simplistic approach to most issues. Truth is simple. Any chance of getting a refund from your Alma Mater? No. You would appear to have some very valid grounds. Actually, I remain in their debt: http://EmoryCardiology.com May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...7b57d0fbf89ed? |
#8
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GOD is kind, just and right.
Al wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Salty Dog wrote: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Peter C wrote: "Alan S" wrote in message ... On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:07:53 GMT, "Peter C" wrote: Why are you wrong so often? Because I am not GOD, Who most assured without doubt, I know to be kind, just, and right. Ahhh, yes, but you told us repeatedly that "he" guides you in everything you say or do HE does. Now if HE did everything for me, then everything would be perfect. , Earthquack. Name-calling simply shows how lost you remain. |
#9
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
"The key to a cure for type-2 diabetes remains to rid the body of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT)." Peer reviewed research please. There is not now any "cure" for diabetes but only reversing some of the symptoms sometimes with dietary control exercise and medications as needed to maintain near normal glucose levels. The metabolic disorder remains and will instantly show up with a standard glucose test. Inner abdominal fat is only one part of the entire disorder picture. Without research in support this opinion is of equal value with that of any random person on the street and does not improve with the constant retelling. |
#10
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Nutrition Recommendations and Interventions for Diabetes-2006
"Many with type-2 diabetes have enough beta cells remaining to produce
enough endogenous insulin to maintain euglycemia once the VAT is gone and the body regains normal insulin sensitivity." You are woefully out of touch with the current literature on vat and diabetes in general. Vat is a secondary effect of insulin resistance not the cause of it. When developed it contributes to feed back to resistance but is not the cause of it. As such it is not the cause of diabetes and even when reduced diabetes remains. Such a black and white single cause view of any part of the complexity of biology is a problem. |
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