A Weightloss and diet forum. WeightLossBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » WeightLossBanter forum » alt.support.diet newsgroups » Low Carbohydrate Diets
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old April 19th, 2011, 03:32 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

Billy wrote:
" wrote:

To review further,
first, Omelet never mentioned that he/she was diabetic.


So, if she isn't the comment wouldn't relate to Om, would it? Om said
that she has talked to Doug before, so maybe there is a communication we
aren't apprised of.


In other discussion on another group she has mentioned she's
pre-diabetic. It makes me conservative about her taking extremist
approaches.

The Fat Fast is a deliberate attempt to push the ketone levels higher
than occur during regular Induction. Not a good idea for someone who
probably has ketone test strips but who probably does not have a blood
glucose test meter.

The Fat Fast is intended for folks who can't get into ketosis at 20 carb
grams per day. In theory it's use by others is an abuse. In practice
folks use it as a stall buster or because they want to be as extreme as
they can and that's as extreme as gets mentioned in the Atkins books.
Since Om does not mention problems with getting into ketosis at 20 her
using it is theoretically an abuse in addition to the issue of probably
not having a meter.
  #22  
Old April 19th, 2011, 11:04 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

Billy wrote:

Anyway all we got was:
Helooo friends !!!!
This is ALan Smith I am Working as a content writer
I am bit bulky so loose the weight I have joined the
Gym. Still I have not concentrated on my diet so please
suggest me Low Carbohydrate Diets.....


If he wants someone to suggest a low carb diet I've long been biased in
favor of Doctor Atkins New Diet Revolution. Any of the editions 1972
(without the word New in the title), 1993, 1999, 2002 or the latest one
written post-mortem by a team of doctors at the Atkins Center.

There are plenty of other popular low carb plans and they all have their
fans. They are all good plans. Picking a plan based on long term
popularity works just fine. Just follow the directions of your chosen
plan including the parts that you don't understand or disagree with.
The authors of these plans work on them a decade and more and they
figure out stuff that's not obvious that works better than the obvious.

If all he has to go on is exercise that can be simple. To lose a
kilogram of fat run about two marathons. If he wants to use exercise to
lose 5 kg per month that's running a marathon every three days.
Being heavy makes running harder so it might not even be possible to
achieve the type of physical conditioning it takes to run a marathon.
Chicken and egg. Look at the folks on the TV show Biggest Loser. They
spend all day every day in the gym.

Running the arithmatic on exercise it becomes easy to understand why
exercise is very good at preventing regain but not nearly as good at
causing loss in the first place. Of course exercise plus diet works
better than either exercise or diet but both together work best.
  #23  
Old April 20th, 2011, 12:32 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Billy[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Billy wrote:

Anyway all we got was:
Helooo friends !!!!
This is ALan Smith I am Working as a content writer
I am bit bulky so loose the weight I have joined the
Gym. Still I have not concentrated on my diet so please
suggest me Low Carbohydrate Diets.....


If he wants someone to suggest a low carb diet I've long been biased in
favor of Doctor Atkins New Diet Revolution. Any of the editions 1972
(without the word New in the title), 1993, 1999, 2002 or the latest one
written post-mortem by a team of doctors at the Atkins Center.

There are plenty of other popular low carb plans and they all have their
fans. They are all good plans. Picking a plan based on long term
popularity works just fine. Just follow the directions of your chosen
plan including the parts that you don't understand or disagree with.
The authors of these plans work on them a decade and more and they
figure out stuff that's not obvious that works better than the obvious.

If all he has to go on is exercise that can be simple. To lose a
kilogram of fat run about two marathons. If he wants to use exercise to
lose 5 kg per month that's running a marathon every three days.
Being heavy makes running harder so it might not even be possible to
achieve the type of physical conditioning it takes to run a marathon.
Chicken and egg. Look at the folks on the TV show Biggest Loser. They
spend all day every day in the gym.

Running the arithmatic on exercise it becomes easy to understand why
exercise is very good at preventing regain but not nearly as good at
causing loss in the first place. Of course exercise plus diet works
better than either exercise or diet but both together work best.


And then sometimes exercising just works up an appetite.

p.273
What may have been the most enlightening animal experiments were
carried out in the 1970s by physiologists studying weight regulation and
reproduction. In these experiments, the researchers removed the ovaries
from female rats. This procedure effectively serves to shut down
production of the female sex hormone estrogen (technically estradiol).
Without estrogen, the rats eat voraciously, dramatically decrease
physical activity, and quickly grow obese. When the estrogen is replaced
by infusing the hormone back into these rats, they lose the excess
weight and return to their usual patterns of eating and activity. The
critical point is that when researchers remove the ovaries from these
rats, but restrict their diets to only what they were eating before the
surgery, the rats become just as obese, just as quickly; the number of
calories consumed makes little difference.

Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science
of Diet and Health (Vintage)
by Gary Taubes
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-...nce/dp/1400033
462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271102831&sr=1-1
(Available at a library near you)
--

McGowan's Drinking Guide (Translated from the original German. It's
complicated, OK?)

Symptom Fault Action to be Taken

Drinking fails to give Mouth shut or glass Buy another pint, and
satisfaction and taste: applied to wrong practice before mirror.
shirt front wet part of face. Continue with as many
pints as necessary until
drinking technique is
perfect.


Taxes
Citizen$ --- Government --- Corporations --- Top 1% --Where the
money went

Are you better off than you were 30 years ago? 10 years ago?
--
- Billy

Dept. of Defense budget: $663.8 billion
Dept. of Health and Human Services budget: $78.4 billion


Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953
  #24  
Old April 20th, 2011, 03:36 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

Omelet wrote:

And yes, after years of playing around with low carbing, I can no longer
get into Ketosis at below 20 carb grams per day... hence experimenting
with the fat fast.


It's also for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first
Induction. Not the same thing as falling out after being on ketosis for
a while and definitely does not apply to folks who were in ketosis in
the first several months of their low carbing. The wrong tool for the
job.

It's something we've discussed on and off group before. Check out
"reversal diet" in the index of the 1993/1999 editions. Dr A
encountered folks who'd stay well below their CCLL for over six months,
or who'd never found their CCLL but just stayed at 20, and fallen out of
ketosis at 20. Some sort of long term metabolic adjustment that I call
"Eskimo mode" or "Inuit mode" of switching to a slower and more
efficient fat burning mode. The mention of reversal diet discusses
one way to reset the metabolism after staying too low too long. It's
probably the fastest way.

Back in 2000 I switched to a plan like Carbohydrate Addicts Diet as a
sort of mantenance strategy and I did it for a year to reset my
metabolism when my metabolism made that long term adjustment. It was a
lot easier but also *much* slower than the two week reversal diet.

If you've been well above 50 grams per day during assorted weeks in the
last 6 months this does not apply to you.
  #25  
Old April 20th, 2011, 04:52 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Walter Bushell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 142
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote:

If all he has to go on is exercise that can be simple. To lose a
kilogram of fat run about two marathons. If he wants to use exercise to
lose 5 kg per month that's running a marathon every three days.


Belike that would soon cause someone to lose all their weight. The legs
or feet would likely break down first though.

--
The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money
is good, or is it the reverse?
  #26  
Old April 21st, 2011, 04:18 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

On Apr 20, 10:36*am, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Omelet wrote:

And yes, after years of playing around with low carbing, I can no longer
get into Ketosis at below 20 carb grams per day... hence experimenting
with the fat fast.


It's also for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first
Induction. *Not the same thing as falling out after being on ketosis for
a while and definitely does not apply to folks who were in ketosis in
the first several months of their low carbing. *The wrong tool for the
job.


Actually, i can't find where Atkins said that it's only for people who
didn't get into ketosis during their first induction, or even during
induction at all. He said it was
to be used by those that are so metabolically resistant to weight
loss that nothing else works to get them to lose weight and only
after ruling out everything else.

So, while I don't see that he explicitly stated that it's OK to use
to break a stall, I doubt he would have had a problem with someone
who met his criteria using it for that purpose. Let's say someone
has had a lot of difficulty losing weight on Atkins all along. A
couple months into Atkins, they have only lost a little weight and
are now stalled, meeting the Atkins definition of a stall.
Per Atkins advice, they have ruled out all possible factors, eg,
thyroid, medications, hidden carbs, etc. If they still cannot
lose weight, I don't think he would have any problem with
them doing his fat fast.



It's something we've discussed on and off group before. *Check out
"reversal diet" in the index of the 1993/1999 editions. *Dr A
encountered folks who'd stay well below their CCLL for over six months,
or who'd never found their CCLL but just stayed at 20, and fallen out of
ketosis at 20. *Some sort of long term metabolic adjustment that I call
"Eskimo mode" or "Inuit mode" of switching to a slower and more
efficient fat burning mode. *The mention of reversal diet discusses
one way to reset the metabolism after staying too low too long. *It's
probably the fastest way.


It's also not in his newest books, perhaps because he changed his
mind about it. I can see reversing and increasing carbs leading to
people having cravings return and in the end, possibly doing more
harm than good. If it worked so well, you'd think it would have
made it to his later editions, as he kept improving the methods.



  #27  
Old April 21st, 2011, 05:05 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

Omelet wrote:

Weight is slowly dropping, not at the rate I'd like it to but it's
encouraging.


There's no need to have easily detected ketones in the urine or breath
for stored fat to decline. Ketones suggests a faster rate is all.

To the extent that low carbing works by eliminating carb and fat
cravings thus making portion control doable, ketosis becomes a nice
optimization. Lack of cravings is probably the single greatest
advantage that low carbing has.

I've not checked ketones for awhile now as I don't expect them to be
there.


Some people can detect it on their own breath, some can't. For those
who can it's more accurate than the sticks. Possibly Dr A took this
into account when he used the word "ketosis" not "ketonuria". He was
sloppy with his wording on other points so I'm dubious about that. I
think it works best to acknowledge his weak points and move on than to
fuss either way. Wording was one of his weak points.

I'll likely drop the carbs lower again once I get back to work
and see if I can get back into ketosis, but only for awhile. I'll do
what Lyle McDonald recommends and stay really low carb and then carb pig
out once every two weeks to re-set carb metabolism.


Cycling comes out of the boby building realm I think. It works very
well. I happen to think it's more work than needed but how much work a
tactic is is a different topic than how effective a tactic is. Cycling
is highly effective.
  #28  
Old April 21st, 2011, 05:25 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Billy[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

In article
,
" wrote:

On Apr 20, 10:36*am, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Omelet wrote:

And yes, after years of playing around with low carbing, I can no longer
get into Ketosis at below 20 carb grams per day... hence experimenting
with the fat fast.


It's also for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first
Induction. *Not the same thing as falling out after being on ketosis for
a while and definitely does not apply to folks who were in ketosis in
the first several months of their low carbing. *The wrong tool for the
job.


Actually, i can't find where Atkins said that it's only for people who
didn't get into ketosis during their first induction, or even during
induction at all. He said it was
to be used by those that are so metabolically resistant to weight
loss that nothing else works to get them to lose weight and only
after ruling out everything else.

So, while I don't see that he explicitly stated that it's OK to use
to break a stall, I doubt he would have had a problem with someone
who met his criteria using it for that purpose. Let's say someone
has had a lot of difficulty losing weight on Atkins all along. A
couple months into Atkins, they have only lost a little weight and
are now stalled, meeting the Atkins definition of a stall.
Per Atkins advice, they have ruled out all possible factors, eg,
thyroid, medications, hidden carbs, etc. If they still cannot
lose weight, I don't think he would have any problem with
them doing his fat fast.



It's something we've discussed on and off group before. *Check out
"reversal diet" in the index of the 1993/1999 editions. *Dr A
encountered folks who'd stay well below their CCLL for over six months,
or who'd never found their CCLL but just stayed at 20, and fallen out of
ketosis at 20. *Some sort of long term metabolic adjustment that I call
"Eskimo mode" or "Inuit mode" of switching to a slower and more
efficient fat burning mode. *The mention of reversal diet discusses
one way to reset the metabolism after staying too low too long. *It's
probably the fastest way.


It's also not in his newest books, perhaps because he changed his
mind about it.

Robert Coleman Atkins, MD
Died: April 17, 2003 in New York City)

I can see reversing and increasing carbs leading to
people having cravings return and in the end, possibly doing more
harm than good. If it worked so well, you'd think it would have
made it to his later editions, as he kept improving the methods.

--
- Billy

Dept. of Defense budget: $663.8 billion
Dept. of Health and Human Services budget: $78.4 billion


Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953
  #29  
Old April 21st, 2011, 08:30 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

Omelet wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Cycling comes out of the boby building realm I think.


Yes. Weight gains during bulking phases for muscle growth with later
pre-contest rapid loss using carb depletion, then carb loading right
before a competition at a set rate to increase muscle hardness from
abnormally increased glycogen levels is a standard pre-competition
strategy.


There's also the fat lost aspect. Doing the system described by Atkins
with natural portion control from lack of cravings (does not work for
everyone, does work for far more people than believe it will work for
them) leads to loss dropping to near zero as we near own real ideal
weight. Our own real ideal wegith is very frequently above our chosen
goal, too.

But cycling does something different. Dropping into ketosis causes fat
loss. Popping out of ketosis with a day or two of low fat high carb
turns off/low the fat loss. The trick is this cycle does not stop when
we hit or ideal weight. It can be used to go below body fat percentages
normally listed as below ideal. Boby builders target extremely low body
fat percentages so they use a method that works to do that.

Not that this makes cycling a bad thing. Just that it attacks the issue
differently.
  #30  
Old April 21st, 2011, 08:49 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month

Billy wrote:
" wrote:

It's also not in his newest books, perhaps because he changed his
mind about it.


Robert Coleman Atkins, MD
Died: April 17, 2003 in New York City)


His last edition is from 2002. There is since an edition by the staff
of the Atkins Center. Neither edition mentions either fat fast or
reversal diet. Why not is a matter of speculation. My speculations are
that people abused the fat fast so he removed it and he was getting
hammered over "no" carb so he removed the only reference to it that
appeared in his book.

Compare when the first edition of South Beach Diet was published against
the last edition of DANDR. Maybe he was depicting his plan as milder
because of the competition not because of the detractors. It's not hard
to come up with several other potential reasons other than my preferred
ones in the previous paragraph.

I can see reversing and increasing carbs leading to
people having cravings return and in the end, possibly doing more
harm than good. If it worked so well, you'd think it would have
made it to his later editions, as he kept improving the methods.


That and/or his later editions were aimed at other topics. One
complaint about his early editions is they were poorly worded. Another
was that they covered too many eventualities. Combine those two
complaints and it's easy to get to the point that readers had a hard
time telling when to use any one point in the book. Dropping the rarely
used tactics makes sense in that case but it certainly is not the only
possible explanation.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poor Planning and good planning - long King's Crown Weightwatchers 6 September 5th, 2006 03:57 PM
menu planning malaka General Discussion 30 January 30th, 2006 08:21 PM
Phentermine 3 month supply as low as $33 per month, Free UPS shipping [email protected] Medications related to Weight Control 0 March 8th, 2005 06:31 PM
How Does Planning Help You? Al Fresco Low Carbohydrate Diets 5 February 7th, 2004 05:48 PM
Im planning ahead Preesi Low Carbohydrate Diets 2 December 21st, 2003 03:43 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 WeightLossBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.