Did you see the diet comparisons?

On Mar 16, 9:28 am, (Will Brink) wrote:
In article .com,

" wrote:

To me, the choice was clear. I want FOOD. Someone could try and make a
point that fat (or protein) might be more filling, or stay with you
longer, or curb appetite. All I know is there is a difference of
opinion on that. Although Atkins might have better results at 10
months, I would go for the high carb Ornish diet and MORE FOOD. Not
even close. dkw

Then you would be making a mistake and ignoring the results of the very
study you are talking about. Ornish diet had poor results also, even worse
than Atkins, which had only a 10lb weight loss on average.

The point you are missing, but hinted at, is that people in this study,
even with help from nutritionists, etc, were not able to follow these
diets long term. So, what matters most is finding a diet you can actually
stick with, vs focusing on extremes of macro nutrient differences.

Don¹t take my word for it, listen to the head researcher of this study in
his own words on NPR¹s Science Friday program via Podcast:

http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast/podca...siteId=4822271

Look for the show released 3/9/07

For additional info, see my article The Big Picture of Permanent Weight Loss:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...atid=3&aid=102

--
Will @www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

You are talking to the wrong person. I went from 230 lbs to 133 and
have maintained that weight over 2 years now.... on Ornish...although
I didn't know it was Ornish at the time. Different strokes for
different folks. The whole idea of trying to trick your body with the
high protein and high fat and putting it into ketosis and raising your
blood fat levels even if it is temporarily (Atkins), doesn't cut it
for me, though. dkw

On Mar 16, 9:46 am, A Ross wrote:
In article .com,

"SFrunner" wrote:
On Mar 15, 6:32 pm, "LFM" wrote:
wrote in message

Then there are those like me - I gotta have my meat, but I also need my
breads and carbs. I have to find a happy medium. I like my variety of
fruits, veggies, grains, meats and dairy, and of course the all important
sugar family too, but that's my weak point. :-)

Too many people fell for the whole lowcarb thing anyway. There is
nothing wrong with carbs, they should be part of a healthy diet.

While I don't disagree that there is anything wrong with carbohydrates,
I think it's important to make the distinction between hi-GI and low-GI
carbs, or quality carbs and junk carbs.

The low-carb diets have never advocated ditching all carbs--they tell
you to find the level of carb intake you can handle that will not spike
your blood sugar or trigger food cravings.

And it doesn't have to be one way of eating over the other. I try to
keep my nutrients balanced, but I do tend towards the high-fat,
hi-protein side of the spectrum when I'm trying to lose. It's the only
way I feel *full*. But I still take in around 50 to 70 grams of
carbs--plenty to keep me running and happy. And I lose faster than if I
did a traditional high-carb, low-fat diet.

I guess it's all a matter of individual preference and perspective. As
most things are...


Exactly. I eat jelly beans on my long runs because I want fast, easy
to digest sugar without anything messing up my gastro system. And
afterwards, lowfat chocolate milk is one of the best recovery foods
around.

I'm not really concerned with hi and low GI, I eat a healthy diet and
consume everything in moderation.

In article .com,
" wrote:


You are talking to the wrong person. I went from 230 lbs to 133 and
have maintained that weight over 2 years now.... on Ornish...although
I didn't know it was Ornish at the time.

Congrats. That's great. It does not however reflect the reality of this
study or the results of other studies or the experience of most people.

Different strokes for
different folks. The whole idea of trying to trick your body with the
high protein and high fat and putting it into ketosis and raising your
blood fat levels even if it is temporarily (Atkins), doesn't cut it
for me, though.

The point is, you don't need to go to such extremes, and extremes greatly
reduce people's ability to follow it long term.

dkw

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

wrote

It's not the eating, but he wants you to go to the store every day and
buy the fresh vegetables for eating that day. That's fine if you've
got a lot of free time and/or love to shop......

Or have worked in a grocery store for thirty five years :-D

XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
(223/176/120)
************************************************** ***************
Voe: All these benches help you work the various
upper body muscle groups--this one triceps, this one
delts and traps---

gizzie: Which one will help me get my boobs pointing
back in the right direction???

Personal Training, lesson two
************************************************** ***************

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:02:47 -0500, Jo Anne
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:01:32 GMT, wrote:


No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.

What is unrealistic about eating fresh vegetables every day? I've been
doing it for years. It takes no more time than frozen or canned stuff,
and I find it cheaper.

(I hate canned vegetables, btw.)

Jo Anne

It's not the eating, but he wants you to go to the store every day and
buy the fresh vegetables for eating that day. That's fine if you've
got a lot of free time and/or love to shop, but I think in general,
it's unrealistic for many.

BTW, I hate canned vegetables, too (with the exception of turnip
greens).

Rick

I'm not actually sure it even works if you buy your veg by going to large
stores. The fresh veg has been shipped thousands of miles and has been
deteriorating for days. I'd love to shop locally in farm shops etc but
since they are never open at any time when I'm not at work... But in the
end it's all about balance, bit of this, bit of that etc. All obsessions
are daft in the end.


--
Rachael

176/116/119

www.justgiving.com/rachaelslondonmarathon

"Cheese" wrote in message
news:9xiKh.135$5M.127@llnews...
wrote:
Today on NBC, I think, they talked about the study that someone
reviewed in this group a week ago. Anyway, it gave you visually a
comparison of a typical dinner for the Zone, Atkins, and Ornish diets.
Some lady reviewed the study saying that people lost weight on all
three, but Atkins was the best after 10 months. She pointed out also
that people in the study cheated...eating too much fat on the Ornish
diet, etc. Still overall, all 3 diets worked. The reason of course is
people were still eating fewer calories, even if they cheated. I'm
rehashing this cause someone already talked about it. The thing that
stood out to me though was visually, looking at the representative
plates of food. You had Atkins with some chicken and something else on
it....and quite a bit of plate showing. The Zone had a bit more food
on it...but not much....but the Ornish plate had a LOT of food...not
bottom of the plate showing there. It was stacked with great food
including 2 slices of bread. I will never ever give up bread. It ain't
the protein either folks cause protein and carbs have the same no. of
calories. It's the fat that makes you eat less in order to stay on the
diet. That's less by weight, not calories, since fat has concentrated
calories.

To me, the choice was clear. I want FOOD. Someone could try and make a
point that fat (or protein) might be more filling, or stay with you
longer, or curb appetite. All I know is there is a difference of
opinion on that. Although Atkins might have better results at 10
months, I would go for the high carb Ornish diet and MORE FOOD. Not
even close. dkw


rant

I had the displeasure of sharing a ski trip with a vegan this weekend.
He's been vegan for quite some time apparently but made our group (10)
dining quite uncomfortable.

We stayed at a bed & breakfast. The morning meal was a spread of eggs,
sausage, toast w/homemade jam, cold cereal and fruit. The hostess
offered hot cereal to our vegan guest but he seemed more expecting than
grateful when his special meal was served.

The group decided after skiing that convenience and bad weather made
the Inn our first choice for evening dining. Our vegan wasn't pleased
at the idea of paying $40(flat multi-course dinner rate)for pasta but
joined us anyway. Again the chef catered to him with a sauteed
mushroom appetizer, a Caesar salad w/out dressing and a vegetable oil
pasta dish. Our vegan complained about the food, the price and even
ordered chocolate cake for dessert(huh?).

The following mornings breakfast was yogurt, pancakes w/vermont syrup,
bacon and fruit. The hostess again offered the hot cereal but this
time our vegan protested that he needed more choices. She apologized
repeatedly but had no other offerings. He ate the oatmeal but didn't
hide the fact that he was upset from the rest of our group.

It was uncomfortable being present during these meals. It was also
surprising to me that the vegan never offered alternate food suggestion
but rather waited for the host and hostess to guess what he might want.
Almost like he was testing them.

I have a vegetarian meal from time to time but this vegan's diet
restriction, the trouble the host and hostess had to go through to
please him and his reluctance to be tolerant and flexible completely
turned me off. I'll stick to trying small portions of what is put in
front of me and throwing away over-sized portions any day.

end rant

--

Cheese

http://cheesensweets.com/contacts/cheese.php

And did he think that chocolate cake had fewer eggs and less butter than
the pancakes and syrup? And he didn't tell anyone about his food fetish
before the trip? Hypocritical a**hole

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:02:47 -0500, Jo Anne
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:01:32 GMT, wrote:


No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.

What is unrealistic about eating fresh vegetables every day? I've been
doing it for years. It takes no more time than frozen or canned stuff,
and I find it cheaper.

(I hate canned vegetables, btw.)

Jo Anne

It's not the eating, but he wants you to go to the store every day and
buy the fresh vegetables for eating that day. That's fine if you've
got a lot of free time and/or love to shop, but I think in general,
it's unrealistic for many.

BTW, I hate canned vegetables, too (with the exception of turnip
greens).

Rick
I think he lives in Florida. If one lives in the north, winter fresh
vegetables, except lettuce, celery, carrots, cabbage, and rutabagas are
pretty sad.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:02:47 -0500, Jo Anne

It's not the eating, but he wants you to go to the store every day and
buy the fresh vegetables for eating that day. That's fine if you've
got a lot of free time and/or love to shop, but I think in general,
it's unrealistic for many.

BTW, I hate canned vegetables, too (with the exception of turnip
greens).

Rick

Why can't you just go once a week and stock up on fresh fruits and veggies
then keep them in your fridge crisper? I do this every week and it works
fine for me.

But seriously, stopping by a grocery store to pick up fresh food is quicker
than going to a restaurant and even quicker than going to most fast food
places. I can get in and out of a grocery in less time than it takes to
stand in line at a fast food place during peak food service hours.

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:32:39 -0500, "LFM"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:02:47 -0500, Jo Anne

It's not the eating, but he wants you to go to the store every day and
buy the fresh vegetables for eating that day. That's fine if you've
got a lot of free time and/or love to shop, but I think in general,
it's unrealistic for many.

BTW, I hate canned vegetables, too (with the exception of turnip
greens).

Rick

Why can't you just go once a week and stock up on fresh fruits and veggies
then keep them in your fridge crisper? I do this every week and it works
fine for me.

I don't know why you can't do that. Heck, who knows how fresh your
grocery produce is anyway. In general, that is.


But seriously, stopping by a grocery store to pick up fresh food is quicker
than going to a restaurant and even quicker than going to most fast food
places. I can get in and out of a grocery in less time than it takes to
stand in line at a fast food place during peak food service hours.

I guess you must go to stores where they're not reduced to two
checkers 7 or 8 deep in the lines, and somebody with 20 items is up
ahead in the 10 or under line. Frustrating.

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:29:08 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:02:47 -0500, Jo Anne
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:01:32 GMT, wrote:


No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.

What is unrealistic about eating fresh vegetables every day? I've been
doing it for years. It takes no more time than frozen or canned stuff,
and I find it cheaper.

(I hate canned vegetables, btw.)

Jo Anne

It's not the eating, but he wants you to go to the store every day and
buy the fresh vegetables for eating that day. That's fine if you've
got a lot of free time and/or love to shop, but I think in general,
it's unrealistic for many.

BTW, I hate canned vegetables, too (with the exception of turnip
greens).

Rick
I think he lives in Florida. If one lives in the north, winter fresh
vegetables, except lettuce, celery, carrots, cabbage, and rutabagas are
pretty sad.

I live in the north (about 30 miles north of Oswego NY, to be exact)
and I have no difficulty finding nice-looking fresh vegetables at the
local grocery store.

We get broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, green & yellow beans,
asparagus, fennel, many types of greens, peppers, and the usual root
veggies that store well. I've probably forgotten quite a few.

About the only thing I pass on in the winter is the tomatoes. They are
pretty horrible.

Jo Anne