Healthy saturated fat?

Hi Ig:

do you have any references to valid current research (randomized
controlled studies) of saturated animal fat? I looked a lot in medline
yesterday, and besides the study that I posted to start this thread,
there was nothing. Dozens of references to saturated fat as bad
without any substantiation.


Some key words/phrases: ceramide, beta cell apoptosis
High-Wire search for phrase "beta cell apoptosis"+saturated+fatty
resulted in 57 finds - http://tinyurl.com/4tsud.

Adding ceramide to the above search terms resulted in 34 finds -
http://tinyurl.com/6oysd

Palmitate is a type of saturated fatty acid.

Monounsaturated Fatty Acids Prevent the Deleterious Effects of Palmitate
and High Glucose on Human Pancreatic ß-Cell Turnover and Function
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org.../full/52/3/726
"Glucotoxicity and lipotoxicity contribute to the impaired ß-cell
function observed in type 2 diabetes. Here we examine the effect of
saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids at different glucose
concentrations on human ß-cell turnover and secretory function. Exposure
of cultured human islets to saturated fatty acid and/or to an elevated
glucose concentration for 4 days increased ß-cell DNA fragmentation and
decreased ß-cell proliferation. In contrast, the monounsaturated
palmitoleic acid or oleic acid did not affect DNA fragmentation and
induced ß-cell proliferation. Moreover, each monounsaturated fatty acid
prevented the deleterious effects of both palmitic acid and high glucose
concentration. The cell-permeable ceramide analogue C2-ceramide mimicked
both the palmitic acid-induced ß-cell apoptosis and decrease in
proliferation. Furthermore, the ceramide synthetase inhibitor fumonisin
B1 blocked the deleterious effects of palmitic acid on ß-cell turnover.
In addition, palmitic acid decreased Bcl-2 expression and induced
release of cytochrome c from the mitochondria into the cytosol, which
was prevented by fumonisin B1 and by oleic acid. Finally, each
monounsaturated fatty acid improved ß-cell secretory function that was
reduced by palmitic acid and by high glucose. Thus, in human islets, the
saturated palmitic acid and elevated glucose concentration induce ß-cell
apoptosis, decrease ß-cell proliferation, and impair ß-cell function,
which can be prevented by monounsaturated fatty acids. The deleterious
effect of palmitic acid is mediated via formation of ceramide and
activation of the apoptotic mitochondrial pathway, whereas Bcl-2 may
contribute to the protective effect of monounsaturated fatty acids."

Read the whole article and some others in the searches above. Also read
some of the follow up articles that cite the articles. Free fatty acids
(FFA) are also significant for type 2 diabetes and can result from
dyfunctional metabolism of protein, carbohydrates, and fatty acids
particularly when there is a positive energy balance such as occurs in
eating to much and not getting enough exercise.

Frank

jbuch wrote:


I am sure that if you look, you will find plenty of uses of the
saturated fats in basic body cellular structures.

However, I have no good references.... just some vague recollections
which could be mistaken...


This is probably true. The nitty-gritty issue is really one of balance.
It is like arachidonic acid (AA) derived from omega 6 series fatty
acids. AA is important in some physiological actions, but it can give
you a headache or other aches and pains if you have a bad omega 6 to
omega 3 balance in your diet.

Frank

Jefferson wrote:



jbuch wrote:


I am sure that if you look, you will find plenty of uses of the
saturated fats in basic body cellular structures.

However, I have no good references.... just some vague recollections
which could be mistaken...


This is probably true. The nitty-gritty issue is really one of balance.
It is like arachidonic acid (AA) derived from omega 6 series fatty
acids. AA is important in some physiological actions, but it can give
you a headache or other aches and pains if you have a bad omega 6 to
omega 3 balance in your diet.

Frank


Yes, Balance.

we really screw ourselves up with the attitude that:

"If a little is good, a lot must be better."

Rather than..."Now that I've got that, what else do I need to add to it?"

These answers, unfortunately, won't work out to be identical for all,
because we complex bio-machines are built with all kinds of modest
programming errors.

Carbohydrate handling problems for some, Fat handling problems for
others, Cholesterol handling problems for still others, and even more
problems in case you haven't gotten one of the above.

Trial and ERROR still seems necessary.

Jim

Jim

Jefferson wrote:



jbuch wrote:


I am sure that if you look, you will find plenty of uses of the
saturated fats in basic body cellular structures.

However, I have no good references.... just some vague recollections
which could be mistaken...


This is probably true. The nitty-gritty issue is really one of balance.
It is like arachidonic acid (AA) derived from omega 6 series fatty
acids. AA is important in some physiological actions, but it can give
you a headache or other aches and pains if you have a bad omega 6 to
omega 3 balance in your diet.

Frank


Yes, Balance.

we really screw ourselves up with the attitude that:

"If a little is good, a lot must be better."

Rather than..."Now that I've got that, what else do I need to add to it?"

These answers, unfortunately, won't work out to be identical for all,
because we complex bio-machines are built with all kinds of modest
programming errors.

Carbohydrate handling problems for some, Fat handling problems for
others, Cholesterol handling problems for still others, and even more
problems in case you haven't gotten one of the above.

Trial and ERROR still seems necessary.

Jim

Jim

Alan wrote:

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as much as
possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs, excess weight,
exercise are all part of the equation.

I'm getting to be of the opinion that there is no 'right diet' suitable
for 'everyone' with regard to macronutrients (iow
fat+protein+carbohydrate). I've always had problems with wheat. After
diebetes, with all starch. I'm getting to think that some are suited for
a mainly sat fat/meat diet, others more towards fish/unsaturated fat,
still others a vegetarian diet, still others a diet high in carbohydrate.

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it to
anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if one
size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even a size.

--
John38 : t2 since 11/03

Alan wrote:

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as much as
possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs, excess weight,
exercise are all part of the equation.

I'm getting to be of the opinion that there is no 'right diet' suitable
for 'everyone' with regard to macronutrients (iow
fat+protein+carbohydrate). I've always had problems with wheat. After
diebetes, with all starch. I'm getting to think that some are suited for
a mainly sat fat/meat diet, others more towards fish/unsaturated fat,
still others a vegetarian diet, still others a diet high in carbohydrate.

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it to
anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if one
size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even a size.

--
John38 : t2 since 11/03

John38 generously shared with us this little ditty:
Alan wrote:

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as
much as possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs,
excess weight, exercise are all part of the equation.

I'm getting to be of the opinion that there is no 'right diet'
suitable for 'everyone' with regard to macronutrients (iow
fat+protein+carbohydrate). I've always had problems with wheat. After
diebetes, with all starch. I'm getting to think that some are suited
for a mainly sat fat/meat diet, others more towards fish/unsaturated
fat, still others a vegetarian diet, still others a diet high in
carbohydrate.

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it
to anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if
one size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even
a size.

Wize man.

--
revek
"Time is an illusion perpetrated by the manufacturers of space."

John38 generously shared with us this little ditty:
Alan wrote:

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as
much as possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs,
excess weight, exercise are all part of the equation.

I'm getting to be of the opinion that there is no 'right diet'
suitable for 'everyone' with regard to macronutrients (iow
fat+protein+carbohydrate). I've always had problems with wheat. After
diebetes, with all starch. I'm getting to think that some are suited
for a mainly sat fat/meat diet, others more towards fish/unsaturated
fat, still others a vegetarian diet, still others a diet high in
carbohydrate.

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it
to anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if
one size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even
a size.

Wize man.

--
revek
"Time is an illusion perpetrated by the manufacturers of space."

"John38" wrote in message
...
For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it to
anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if one
size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even a size.


Is your blood type O? My mother swears by this blood type diet she is on,
"Eat Right For Your Type." It sounded kind of weird to me, but then I read
a science magazine article about them trying to come up with genetic tests
to predict which drugs will work for different people which seems like a
similar kind of thing.

In article , None Given
writes
"John38" wrote in message
...
For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it to
anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if one
size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even a size.


Is your blood type O? My mother swears by this blood type diet she is on,
"Eat Right For Your Type." It sounded kind of weird to me, but then I read
a science magazine article about them trying to come up with genetic tests
to predict which drugs will work for different people which seems like a
similar kind of thing.


you know, I have no idea what my blood type is. I would be interested in
the science describing the dietblood type relationship. Any links?
--
John38 : t2 since 11/03 : current Hb1Ac=5.5% :