the dark side of soya

On Mar 14, 10:56*am, Tunderbar wrote:

Here are a couple of facts that should, in and of itself, scare you.

More than 60% of all soy beans grown are genetically modified, and by
now I expect that to be a higher percentage.

It is illegal for a food processor or packager to indicate whether or
not the soy product is made or no made with gmo soy beans.

You have no way of knowing if any given soy product is 0% gmo or 100%
gmo.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Yummy, and they taste good too! You're now trying to start the same
scare tactics about genetically modified foods. It just shows how
extreme your views are.

As for your claim that it's illegal for genetically modified foods to
be labeled that way, I'd love to see the reference for that. I'm no
expert on the subject, but my BS detector suggest that is probably as
factual as your previous claim that Tofu originated in the USA in the
50's. I know there has been discussion about mandatory REQUIREMENTS
for genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, but I've never
heard of any law prohibiting anyone from voluntarily labeling them.
Reference please.

On Mar 15, 10:07 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 14, 10:56 am, Tunderbar wrote:



Here are a couple of facts that should, in and of itself, scare you.

More than 60% of all soy beans grown are genetically modified, and by
now I expect that to be a higher percentage.

It is illegal for a food processor or packager to indicate whether or
not the soy product is made or no made with gmo soy beans.

You have no way of knowing if any given soy product is 0% gmo or 100%
gmo.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yummy, and they taste good too! You're now trying to start the same
scare tactics about genetically modified foods. It just shows how
extreme your views are.

As for your claim that it's illegal for genetically modified foods to
be labeled that way, I'd love to see the reference for that. I'm no
expert on the subject, but my BS detector suggest that is probably as
factual as your previous claim that Tofu originated in the USA in the
50's. I know there has been discussion about mandatory REQUIREMENTS
for genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, but I've never
heard of any law prohibiting anyone from voluntarily labeling them.
Reference please.

http://www.google.com/search?q=genet...006-13,GGGL:en

On Mar 15, 6:17 am, "Joan and her butterflydogs"
wrote:
There is an interesting article on soy beans at International Online recipe
site where readers share their thoughts on food and diet.

This particular article also points out the negative .

I try to read all I can and make up my mind. Posted here for info only

http://www.internationalrecipes.net/recipes/

Joan

"Tunderbar" wrote in message

...

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/darkside.html

Soy: The Dark Side of America's
Favorite "Health" Food
by Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD

Jenny Smith, a secretary and receptionist, could not explain what was
happening to her. She began to make mistakes in her work and suffer
from memory lapses. She would type a word backwards without even
realizing it and proofread right over her mistakes. Her speech was
slurring and when she answered the phone. . . she didn't know what to
say. One day she found herself walking across a busy intersection
against the lights and didn't know how she got there.

Leslie Blumenberg went to pick up her mother at the airport and got
lost coming home. Although she had lived in the area for years, she
became completely disoriented. It took her two hours to find her way
back to her house. She was also suffering from cognitive problems, her
words would jumble when she tried to speak coherent sentences, and she
forgot how to spell.
Leslie had been eating soy foods, lots of them, for three years. When
she went off soy, her problems cleared up, her mind returned to
normal. But Jenny Smith did not eat soy. Her problems cleared up only
when she went on a diet and stopped eating bread. She discovered that
she could eat homemade bread without any problem. But supermarket
bread gave her brain fog.

Jenny had a thyroid problem and had been taking thyroxine for years.
When her office connected with the internet, she went online to a
thyroid site. There she learned that soy was a potent thyroid
depressant and should not be consumed by anyone with thyroid troubles.
Next trip to the grocery store, she began to read labels and
discovered that every loaf of bread in the supermarket contained soy
flour.

"Thyroid enlargement in rats and humans, especially children and
women, fed with soyabeans has been known for half a century,"
according to Theodore Kay at Kyoto University in Japan. His 1988 study
attempted to determine the amount of iodine required to prevent goitre
in populations consuming soy foods. He found that small amounts of
iodine could indeed prevent noticeable thyroid enlargement, but even
large amounts did not prevent pathological changes to the thyroid
gland. He also determined that the most potent goitrogens in soy
cannot be removed by cooking.

Although scientists have known for many years that soy is goitrogenic,
it was only recently that they were able to pinpoint the actual
thyroid-depressing compounds. Researchers at the US Toxicological
Laboratory in Arkansas found that the thyroid-depressing substances
are isoflavones, the estrogen-like compounds found plentifully in the
soybean.

This discovery came as a shock to the soy industry, which has heavily
promoted these phytoestrogens as beneficial. It is the phytoestrogens
or isoflavones in soy that are supposed to protect us from heart
disease, cancer, osteoporosis and the discomforts of menopause. Yet in
normal women consuming sufficient iodine, just 30g of roasted soybeans
daily, containing about 38mg isoflavones, were found to depress
thyroid function--less than the amount in two glasses of soy milk, two
servings of tofu, or a handful of roasted soy nuts. In sensitive
individuals, such as Jenny Smith, even small amounts of soy were able
to provoke the mental confusion indicative of disrupted thyroid
function.

ISOFLAVONES IN OUR FOOD

Bread with added soy flour, 2 slices 4 mg
Meatless chicken nuggets, 1/2 cup 15 mg
Soy hot dog 15 mg
Soymilk, 8-ounce glass 20 mg
Green soybeans, raw, 1/2 cup 20 mg
Miso, 1/4 cup 21 mg
Tofu, 1/2 cup 28 mg
Soy cheese, 1/2 cup 31 mg
Soymilk skin or film , cooked, 1/2 cup 51 mg
Tempeh, cooked, 1/2 cup 53 mg
Soybean chips , 1/2 cup 54 mg
Mature soybeans, cooked, 1/2 cup 55 mg
Dry roasted soybeans , 1/2 cup 128 mg
Revival soy-based meal replacement, 1 serving 160 mg

Further confirmation of soy's adverse effects on the mind comes from a
recent study of Japanese Americans living in Hawaii. Professor Lon
White found a significant statistical relationship between two or more
servings of tofu per week and "accelerated brain aging." Those
participants who consumed tofu in mid-life had lower cognitive
function in late life and a greater incidence of Alzheimer's and
dementia. What's more," said Dr. White, "those who ate a lot of tofu,
by the time they were 75 or 80, looked five years older."

According to Jennifer A. Phillips, writing for Cambridge Scientific
Abstracts, estrogens (including the phytoestrogens in soy) can block
the efficiency of thyroid hormones. This is why women need more
thyroid hormones than men and are more prone to thyroid troubles.
Since thyroid hormone acts as a neurotransmitter, low levels can mimic
psychiatric disease. Severe hypothyroidism can cause symptoms similar
to Alzheimer's disease, including memory loss, confusion, slowness,
paranoid depression and even hallucinations. Other symptoms of low
thyroid function include fatigue, loss of hair, difficulties at
menopause, digestive problems, constipation, infertility and brittle
bones.

Individuals with low thyroid function are also prone to heart disease.
Soy proponents claim that soy helps the heart because it lowers
cholesterol. Yet in 1992, researchers at the National Heart, Lung and
Blood Institute looked at every study that had been published about
the risk of having high or low cholesterol and concluded that
mortality was greater in women with low cholesterol than with high
cholesterol. And a new study, published in the Lancet, suggests that
high cholesterol levels are protective even for men. In any case, no
study has ever offered direct proof that soy can prevent heart disease
and in most of the major studies in which cholesterol levels were
lowered through either diet or drugs, a greater number of deaths
occurred in the treatment groups than in controls, deaths from stroke,
cancer, intestinal disorders, accidents and suicide.
Scientists looking at the correlation of soy foods and "brain aging"
have focussed on isoflavones, but there are a number of components in
soy foods that can contribute to reduced mental function. One is
phytic acid which blocks zinc absorption. Zinc is essential for proper
functioning of the brain. Modern processed soy foods contain high
levels of MSG, fluoride and aluminum, all of which are toxic to the
nervous system. Furthermore, during processing, at least two
categories of carcinogens are formed, lysinealanines and nitrosamines.

Other substances in soy can contribute to the digestive problems so
common in individuals with thyroid troubles, including potent enzyme
inhibitors that block the breakdown of protein, and lectins that are
highly irritating to the digestive tract. These compounds tend to
occur in higher amounts in genetically engineered soybeans.

When soy protein isolate was fed to rats, the animals required higher
than normal levels of vitamins E, K, D and B12 and developed
deficiency symptoms of calcium, magnesium, zinc and many other
minerals.

Soy proponents claim that soy is a staple in Asia. A "staple" is
defined as a major commodity, one that provides a large portion of
calories in the diet, such as rice and fish in Japan, or rice and pork
in China. The Japanese consume 150 pounds of fish per person per year,
or almost one-half pound per person per day and a 1977 dietary survey
in China determined that 65 percent of calories came from pork,
including the pork fat used in cooking. By contrast, overall
consumption of soy in Asia is surprisingly low. The average soy
consumption in China is about 10 grams or 2 teaspoons per day. Levels
are somewhat higher in Japan, averaging about 50 grams or 1/4 cup per
day. In both countries, soy is used as a condiment or flavoring, and
not as a substitute for animal foods. Seafood and seaweed in the
Japanese diet provide sufficient iodine to counteract the negative
effects of the isoflavones in soy.

In Asia, soy is mostly consumed in fermented form, but it is not
considered an appropriate food for babies. When a mother is unable to
nurse and a wet nurse is unavailable, her infant is given milk from
cows or water buffalo. In the US, however, an estimated 750,000 babies
per year receive infant formula made from processed soybeans. Parents
use soy formula in the belief that is it healthier than formula based
on cows' milk. In fact, when soy infant formula first became
commercially available, manufacturers promised that soy formula was
"better than breast milk."

Naomi Baumslag, Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at Georgetown
University Medical College and an expert on breast feeding, cites many
reasons for parents to avoid soy formula. "There is a great deal of
scientific evidence that soy formula can be damaging to newborns," she
says, citing high levels of phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors, lectins,
manganese and phytoestrogens. High levels of manganese are toxic to
babies because they lack the blood-brain barrier that develops later
in childhood. Manganese overdose is associated with brain damage
leading to violent behavior. Furthermore, soy lacks many factors that
are essential to normal brain development including essential fatty
acids, DHA-brain growth factor and cholesterol.

...

read more »

http://www.google.com/search?q=genet...006-13,GGGL:en

On Mar 15, 12:40*pm, Tunderbar wrote:
On Mar 15, 10:07 am, "
wrote:





On Mar 14, 10:56 am, Tunderbar wrote:

Here are a couple of facts that should, in and of itself, scare you.

More than 60% of all soy beans grown are genetically modified, and by
now I expect that to be a higher percentage.

It is illegal for a food processor or packager to indicate whether or
not the soy product is made or no made with gmo soy beans.

You have no way of knowing if any given soy product is 0% gmo or 100%
gmo.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yummy, and they taste good too! * You're now trying to start the same
scare tactics about genetically modified foods. * *It just shows how
extreme your views are.

As for your claim that it's illegal for genetically modified foods to
be labeled that way, I'd love to see the reference for that. * I'm no
expert on the subject, but my BS detector suggest that is probably as
factual as your previous claim that Tofu originated in the USA in the
50's. * I know there has been discussion about mandatory REQUIREMENTS
for genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, but I've never
heard of any law prohibiting anyone from voluntarily labeling them.
Reference please.

http://www.google.com/search?q=genet...id=navc... .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, just as I thought. No substantiation of your foolish claim.

See, this is how you prove a statement is true. You provide a link
to a credible source that backs it up. Providing a google link to the
search term "genetically modified soybeans" does nothing to
substantiate your claim that it's illegal to label genetically
modified foods as such. As I suspected when my BS detector went off,
it's just another bogus lie. I'll just chalk it up with your claim
that Tofu originated in the USA in the 1950's, as more proof that you
don't know much about anything.

On Mar 15, 11:49 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 15, 12:40 pm, Tunderbar wrote:



On Mar 15, 10:07 am, "
wrote:

On Mar 14, 10:56 am, Tunderbar wrote:

Here are a couple of facts that should, in and of itself, scare you.

More than 60% of all soy beans grown are genetically modified, and by
now I expect that to be a higher percentage.

It is illegal for a food processor or packager to indicate whether or
not the soy product is made or no made with gmo soy beans.

You have no way of knowing if any given soy product is 0% gmo or 100%
gmo.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yummy, and they taste good too! You're now trying to start the same
scare tactics about genetically modified foods. It just shows how
extreme your views are.

As for your claim that it's illegal for genetically modified foods to
be labeled that way, I'd love to see the reference for that. I'm no
expert on the subject, but my BS detector suggest that is probably as
factual as your previous claim that Tofu originated in the USA in the
50's. I know there has been discussion about mandatory REQUIREMENTS
for genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, but I've never
heard of any law prohibiting anyone from voluntarily labeling them.
Reference please.

http://www.google.com/search?q=genet...=navc... Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, just as I thought. No substantiation of your foolish claim.

See, this is how you prove a statement is true. You provide a link
to a credible source that backs it up. Providing a google link to the
search term "genetically modified soybeans" does nothing to
substantiate your claim that it's illegal to label genetically
modified foods as such. As I suspected when my BS detector went off,
it's just another bogus lie. I'll just chalk it up with your claim
that Tofu originated in the USA in the 1950's, as more proof that you
don't know much about anything.

I provided a link to a google search in order to clearly illustrate
just how much information there is out there on the dangers of soy and
how easy it is to find that information.

You want to argue minor points like my "claim" that it originated in
the US in the 50s, which is not what I "claimed". I said it was an
American in Asia who thought it was a good idea to ignore thousands of
years of Asian familiarity with the soybean and try to market it as a
source of protein. That failed in Asia so he brought it to the US and
marketed it as an exotic Asian health food. The vegans bought into it
and his soy industry "research".

Look, if you want to eat that crap and jeopardize your health, knock
yourself out, but don't try to foist this crap on other people. Soy is
not real food.

Let me try to take the so called "middle ground" here. I know both
posters from some earlier encounters and I tend to think that you are
both genuine low carbers. At least I hope so.

On the one hand, posting a google search link isn't really proving
much. People put out so much crap on the web that you really need to
point out more specific references supporting your claim. The "right"
search words might show sources for just about any idea. The freedom of
anyone to post information is the great thing about the Internet but
also a weakness. Information filtering is necessary to find the credible
sources.

Nevertheless, I came to low carb by modifying my paleodiet according to
my experiences and I do believe that they conform quite well. Even Dr.
Atkins reiterates the evolutionary arguments in his book, so I don't
think that they can just be dismissed like that. Nothing resembling soy
could have possibly been available to our ancestors.

--
Newsoffice.de - Die Onlinesoftware zum Lesen und Schreiben im Usenet
Die Signatur läßt sich nach Belieben anpassen ;-)

On Mar 15, 4:02*pm, Tunderbar wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:49 am, "
wrote:





On Mar 15, 12:40 pm, Tunderbar wrote:

On Mar 15, 10:07 am, "
wrote:

On Mar 14, 10:56 am, Tunderbar wrote:

Here are a couple of facts that should, in and of itself, scare you.

More than 60% of all soy beans grown are genetically modified, and by
now I expect that to be a higher percentage.

It is illegal for a food processor or packager to indicate whether or
not the soy product is made or no made with gmo soy beans.

You have no way of knowing if any given soy product is 0% gmo or 100%
gmo.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yummy, and they taste good too! * You're now trying to start the same
scare tactics about genetically modified foods. * *It just shows how
extreme your views are.

As for your claim that it's illegal for genetically modified foods to
be labeled that way, I'd love to see the reference for that. * I'm no
expert on the subject, but my BS detector suggest that is probably as
factual as your previous claim that Tofu originated in the USA in the
50's. * I know there has been discussion about mandatory REQUIREMENTS
for genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, but I've never
heard of any law prohibiting anyone from voluntarily labeling them.
Reference please.

http://www.google.com/search?q=genet...avc... quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, just as I thought. * No substantiation of your foolish claim.

See, this is how you prove a statement is true. * You provide a link
to a credible source that backs it up. *Providing a google link to the
search term "genetically modified soybeans" does nothing to
substantiate your claim that it's illegal to label genetically
modified foods as such. * As I suspected when my BS detector went off,
it's just another bogus lie. * I'll just chalk it up with your claim
that Tofu originated in the USA in the 1950's, as more proof that you
don't know much about anything.

I provided a link to a google search in order to clearly illustrate
just how much information there is out there on the dangers of soy and
how easy it is to find that information.

You want to argue minor points like my "claim" that it originated in
the US in the 50s, which is not what I "claimed". I said it was an
American in Asia who thought it was a good idea to ignore thousands of
years of Asian familiarity with the soybean and try to market it as a
source of protein. That failed in Asia so he brought it to the US and
marketed it as an exotic Asian health food. The vegans bought into it
and his soy industry "research".


This is exactly what you posted:

"Tofu is the product created by an American in the 1950's. He tried
to
sell it in Asia and failed so he marketed it to the gullible us
market
as an exotic and healthy food which it is not. "


And I don't see it as a minor point. You tried to make it appear
that tofu is some new creation. Anyone who thinks tofu originated in
the USA in the 1950s obviously knows nothing about tofu, edamame, and
similar soybean historical usage in Asian cultures. And it just gets
worse when you continue to spew nonsense again, like in the above
paragraph. One more time. Tofu originated in Asia thousands of years
ago. End of story.



Look, if you want to eat that crap and jeopardize your health, knock
yourself out, but don't try to foist this crap on other people. Soy is
not real food.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've said all along that people should make their own choices based on
all the information. But they shouldn't buy into BS, scare tactics
and outright lies about food history.

BTW, we're still waiting for that reference to your other claim that
says it's illegal to label food containing genetically modified
ingredients as such. I guess that's just another "minor claim" that
should go as an unchallenged truth.

On Mar 15, 6:25*pm, Hakan wrote:
Let me try to take the so called "middle ground" here. I know both
posters from some earlier encounters and I tend to think that you are
both genuine low carbers. At least I hope so.

*On the one hand, posting a google search link isn't really proving
much. People put out so much crap on the web that you really need to
point out more specific references supporting your claim. The "right"
search words might show sources for just about any idea. The freedom of
anyone to post information is the great thing about the Internet but
also a weakness. Information filtering is necessary to find the credible
sources.

*Nevertheless, I came to low carb by modifying my paleodiet according to
my experiences and I do believe that they conform quite well. Even Dr.
Atkins reiterates the evolutionary arguments in his book, so I don't
think that they can just be dismissed like that. Nothing resembling soy
could have possibly been available to our ancestors.

I would have to say that nothing resembling many of the foods, LC or
otherwise that we eat today were available to our paleolithic
ancestors. Even something as basic as beef that we eat today is a
lot different than the game would have been back then. And many of
the common vegetables of today only came to fruition in their present
form from careful cultivation, hybridization, etc, by man in the last
thousand years or so.





--
Newsoffice.de - Die Onlinesoftware zum Lesen und Schreiben im Usenet
Die Signatur läßt sich nach Belieben anpassen ;-)

On Mar 15, 7:32 pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 15, 4:02 pm, Tunderbar wrote:



On Mar 15, 11:49 am, "
wrote:

On Mar 15, 12:40 pm, Tunderbar wrote:

On Mar 15, 10:07 am, "
wrote:

On Mar 14, 10:56 am, Tunderbar wrote:

Here are a couple of facts that should, in and of itself, scare you.

More than 60% of all soy beans grown are genetically modified, and by
now I expect that to be a higher percentage.

It is illegal for a food processor or packager to indicate whether or
not the soy product is made or no made with gmo soy beans.

You have no way of knowing if any given soy product is 0% gmo or 100%
gmo.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yummy, and they taste good too! You're now trying to start the same
scare tactics about genetically modified foods. It just shows how
extreme your views are.

As for your claim that it's illegal for genetically modified foods to
be labeled that way, I'd love to see the reference for that. I'm no
expert on the subject, but my BS detector suggest that is probably as
factual as your previous claim that Tofu originated in the USA in the
50's. I know there has been discussion about mandatory REQUIREMENTS
for genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, but I've never
heard of any law prohibiting anyone from voluntarily labeling them.
Reference please.

http://www.google.com/search?q=genet...=navc... text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, just as I thought. No substantiation of your foolish claim.

See, this is how you prove a statement is true. You provide a link
to a credible source that backs it up. Providing a google link to the
search term "genetically modified soybeans" does nothing to
substantiate your claim that it's illegal to label genetically
modified foods as such. As I suspected when my BS detector went off,
it's just another bogus lie. I'll just chalk it up with your claim
that Tofu originated in the USA in the 1950's, as more proof that you
don't know much about anything.

I provided a link to a google search in order to clearly illustrate
just how much information there is out there on the dangers of soy and
how easy it is to find that information.

You want to argue minor points like my "claim" that it originated in
the US in the 50s, which is not what I "claimed". I said it was an
American in Asia who thought it was a good idea to ignore thousands of
years of Asian familiarity with the soybean and try to market it as a
source of protein. That failed in Asia so he brought it to the US and
marketed it as an exotic Asian health food. The vegans bought into it
and his soy industry "research".

This is exactly what you posted:

"Tofu is the product created by an American in the 1950's. He tried
to
sell it in Asia and failed so he marketed it to the gullible us
market
as an exotic and healthy food which it is not. "

I did not say that it originated in the US as you claimed I said. I
said it was the idea of an American, who was in in Asia at the time.

Big difference.

No one in Asia bought into it. So he brought the idea to the US where
lots of gullible Americans believed his speel.


And I don't see it as a minor point. You tried to make it appear
that tofu is some new creation. Anyone who thinks tofu originated in
the USA in the 1950s obviously knows nothing about tofu, edamame, and
similar soybean historical usage in Asian cultures. And it just gets
worse when you continue to spew nonsense again, like in the above
paragraph. One more time. Tofu originated in Asia thousands of years
ago. End of story.

The idea that was new was to use it as a staple source of protein for
the human diet for daily consumption. It was never used as a staple
because it is not a healthy source of protein. It was used as a source
of protein only in times of hardship and only when fermented.
Otherwise it was only historically used as a CONDIMENT after being
thoroughly FERMENTED to neutralize the PHYTO-ESTROGENS and the PHYTO-
TOXINS.






Look, if you want to eat that crap and jeopardize your health, knock
yourself out, but don't try to foist this crap on other people. Soy is
not real food.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've said all along that people should make their own choices based on
all the information. But they shouldn't buy into BS, scare tactics
and outright lies about food history.

BTW, we're still waiting for that reference to your other claim that
says it's illegal to label food containing genetically modified
ingredients as such. I guess that's just another "minor claim" that
should go as an unchallenged truth.

If I say don't stick your hand in the fire, it will hurt, is that a
scare tactic? If I say don't cross the street without looking both
ways or you'll get run over, is that a scare tactic? If I say don't
have unprotected sex or you'll get an STD, is that a scare tactic? If
I say that soy is not to be eaten un-fermented in large amounts, and
if I say GMO foods, especially soybeans are not guaranteed to be
healthy food, that is fact, not a scare tactic.

The regulations in the US does not require that GM soy be identified ,
period.

If you were actually interested in whether or not unfermented soybeans
were healthy or not, you would have read some of the material I
provided, including the links in the google searches I provided. The
fact that you continue to pontificate and argue on minor points on
this issue makes it clear that you have another agenda, possible vegan
or soy industry related, or are simply too god-damned stupid and/or
close minded to actually be interested in this in a sincere manner.

To everyone else reading this, check out th elinks I provided and make
up your own mind. If you ask me, I'd say that the last thing that you
need in soy. Any animal sourced protein will be much healthier for you
than soy. And soy milk is not frikkin' milk. It is soy bean juice with
high levels of toxic material in it.

On Mar 15, 11:22 pm, Tunderbar wrote:
On Mar 15, 7:32 pm, "
wrote:



On Mar 15, 4:02 pm, Tunderbar wrote:

On Mar 15, 11:49 am, "
wrote:

On Mar 15, 12:40 pm, Tunderbar wrote:

On Mar 15, 10:07 am, "
wrote:

On Mar 14, 10:56 am, Tunderbar wrote:

Here are a couple of facts that should, in and of itself, scare you.

More than 60% of all soy beans grown are genetically modified, and by
now I expect that to be a higher percentage.

It is illegal for a food processor or packager to indicate whether or
not the soy product is made or no made with gmo soy beans.

You have no way of knowing if any given soy product is 0% gmo or 100%
gmo.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yummy, and they taste good too! You're now trying to start the same
scare tactics about genetically modified foods. It just shows how
extreme your views are.

As for your claim that it's illegal for genetically modified foods to
be labeled that way, I'd love to see the reference for that. I'm no
expert on the subject, but my BS detector suggest that is probably as
factual as your previous claim that Tofu originated in the USA in the
50's. I know there has been discussion about mandatory REQUIREMENTS
for genetically modified foods to be labeled as such, but I've never
heard of any law prohibiting anyone from voluntarily labeling them.
Reference please.

http://www.google.com/search?q=genet...rceid=navc...-

- Show quoted text -

Yep, just as I thought. No substantiation of your foolish claim.

See, this is how you prove a statement is true. You provide a link
to a credible source that backs it up. Providing a google link to the
search term "genetically modified soybeans" does nothing to
substantiate your claim that it's illegal to label genetically
modified foods as such. As I suspected when my BS detector went off,
it's just another bogus lie. I'll just chalk it up with your claim
that Tofu originated in the USA in the 1950's, as more proof that you
don't know much about anything.

I provided a link to a google search in order to clearly illustrate
just how much information there is out there on the dangers of soy and
how easy it is to find that information.

You want to argue minor points like my "claim" that it originated in
the US in the 50s, which is not what I "claimed". I said it was an
American in Asia who thought it was a good idea to ignore thousands of
years of Asian familiarity with the soybean and try to market it as a
source of protein. That failed in Asia so he brought it to the US and
marketed it as an exotic Asian health food. The vegans bought into it
and his soy industry "research".

This is exactly what you posted:

"Tofu is the product created by an American in the 1950's. He tried
to
sell it in Asia and failed so he marketed it to the gullible us
market
as an exotic and healthy food which it is not. "

I did not say that it originated in the US as you claimed I said. I
said it was the idea of an American, who was in in Asia at the time.

Big difference.

No one in Asia bought into it. So he brought the idea to the US where
lots of gullible Americans believed his speel.



And I don't see it as a minor point. You tried to make it appear
that tofu is some new creation. Anyone who thinks tofu originated in
the USA in the 1950s obviously knows nothing about tofu, edamame, and
similar soybean historical usage in Asian cultures. And it just gets
worse when you continue to spew nonsense again, like in the above
paragraph. One more time. Tofu originated in Asia thousands of years
ago. End of story.

The idea that was new was to use it as a staple source of protein for
the human diet for daily consumption. It was never used as a staple
because it is not a healthy source of protein. It was used as a source
of protein only in times of hardship and only when fermented.
Otherwise it was only historically used as a CONDIMENT after being
thoroughly FERMENTED to neutralize the PHYTO-ESTROGENS and the PHYTO-
TOXINS.

Soybeans was mostly valued for it's nitrogen fixing capabilities as a
crop. It was used in agricultural crop rotations to replenish the soil
with nitrogen. It was never valued as a food crop. Ever. Until some
dumbass American got ahold of it,.






Look, if you want to eat that crap and jeopardize your health, knock
yourself out, but don't try to foist this crap on other people. Soy is
not real food.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've said all along that people should make their own choices based on
all the information. But they shouldn't buy into BS, scare tactics
and outright lies about food history.

BTW, we're still waiting for that reference to your other claim that
says it's illegal to label food containing genetically modified
ingredients as such. I guess that's just another "minor claim" that
should go as an unchallenged truth.

If I say don't stick your hand in the fire, it will hurt, is that a
scare tactic? If I say don't cross the street without looking both
ways or you'll get run over, is that a scare tactic? If I say don't
have unprotected sex or you'll get an STD, is that a scare tactic? If
I say that soy is not to be eaten un-fermented in large amounts, and
if I say GMO foods, especially soybeans are not guaranteed to be
healthy food, that is fact, not a scare tactic.

The regulations in the US does not require that GM soy be identified ,
period.

If you were actually interested in whether or not unfermented soybeans
were healthy or not, you would have read some of the material I
provided, including the links in the google searches I provided. The
fact that you continue to pontificate and argue on minor points on
this issue makes it clear that you have another agenda, possible vegan
or soy industry related, or are simply too god-damned stupid and/or
close minded to actually be interested in this in a sincere manner.

To everyone else reading this, check out th elinks I provided and make
up your own mind. If you ask me, I'd say that the last thing that you
need in soy. Any animal sourced protein will be much healthier for you
than soy. And soy milk is not frikkin' milk. It is soy bean juice with
high levels of toxic material in it.