Show me your 20

On Oct 12, 5:07?pm, Aaron Baugher wrote:
"em" writes:
Woa! I just looked that up. Cantaloupe is low carb!!! I didn't know
that. I love that stuff. I buy my daughter fruit bowls all the time and
am afraid to touch them. What about other mellons?

Watermelon is even better on the carb count. As fruits go on the carb
scale, strawberries are the low-carb king, followed by blackberries and
raspberries, then watermelon, then cantaloupe and honeydew, then
peaches, then sour cherries. Beyond those, most fruits are too carby
for me to bother with, and the low-carb ones tend to be my favorites
anyway. I'd never eat and apple or orange when there are berries and
melon to be had.

Special mention of avocados, which are technically a fruit although most
people probably don't think of them that way. They're quite low-carb
and high in fat and other good stuff.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Hey Aaron:

I get 10/9 effective per serving for watermelon, 5/4 for canteloupe.

Would you be referring to some new substance like Sugarless
Watermelon?

c
I've tried the gum. It was so-so.

Heya...I think all melon is about the same. Except Watermelon -- as
far as I know. And watermelon Jolly Ranchers.

c
What kind of self-respecting
Rancher makes candy?

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 12, 3:58?pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
wrote:

Lots of good reasons to go to 20 and stay there.

None of which have to do with loss after reaching some level above
ideal. Stalls at 20 are common because of the T3 reduction.

I've just never done it before.

My CCLL is 50. When I did 6 months at 35 because it's easy, I
lost nothing for that 6 months and I dropped out of ketosis. It
took a year to figure out what I'd done to myself.


So what had you done to yourself? Do you think your low T3 was causing
you to burn carbs? Liver shutdown? I don't get what happened.

I don't get the whole thing about T3, actually. What is that Doug? I know
you've talked about it before, but somehow it didn't sink in.

Mike

em wrote:

Raspberries are awesome. I've been digging cantaloupe with a touch of
lime lately.

Woa! I just looked that up. Cantaloupe is low carb!!! I didn't know
that. I love that stuff. I buy my daughter fruit bowls all the time and
am afraid to touch them. What about other mellons?

Yup, pretty much. I do a cup of any type of melon, or a cup of any sort
of berries, or a whole kiwi. Just not at breakfast as that screws up my
bg too much in the morning.

A cup of berries mixed in a cup of Greek yogurt is just incredibly
awesomely decadent.


--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

On Oct 12, 3:08 pm, wrote:
On Oct 12, 7:05?am, Hollywood wrote:



On Oct 11, 9:27 pm, wrote:

What does a 20 carb day look like to you? Do you watch calories at all
or do you just make yourself sick on steaks? What if you had to stay
there *forever*, what would you do?

Make yourself sick on steaks? I'm unclear on the concept. If I had to
eat
steaks forever, I think I could live with that.

It's in the framing. If you frame it a priori, as "sick on steaks" you
will be
there before you know it. If you frame it as, "I get to eat steak, ad
libitum,
forever, and I can put compound butter on it? Lucky me," you've
already
won.

Hm. When I said, " make yourself sick" -- I meant "overeat" or " eat
til you're stuffed".

I certainly did not mean to violate or impugn the fine, right and very
good honourable Beefysteak as the King of All Foods.

In Taubes, people fasting don't feel hungry.
If you give them 300-600 calories of fat and protein, they don't feel
hungry.
If you give them 800-1000 calories of fat and protein, and, yeah,
they don't feel hungry.
And so it is at 1200 cals, 1500 cals, 1800 cals, 2300 cals, and
up to ad libitum.

If you give them 1500 cals and add in a bunch of carb, they are
ravenous.

I guess the lesson is: It doesn't need to be a 42 oz porterhouse
or the king cut prime rib. It works fine with that, but it also works
fine with a few chicken thighs or beef tournedos (fillet mignon) w/
a nice matrie d'hotel butter.

I don't get "sick on steaks", but I don't watch calories either.
Build with protein first, then add some minimal carbs. Maybe.

Breakfast is a shake. breakfast snack is a shake or some
cottage cheese or some chicken wings or eggs and breakfast
meat. Lunch is leftovers or hot wings, maybe some veg. Snack 2
is nuts, if I have it. Dinner is meat and maybe some veg. And maybe
some fruit after. I'm not at a point where quantity matters much. I
let my body tell me whats enough and whats too much. I'm getting
there on it.

265/207/195 @ 6'2" M

On Oct 13, 9:45?am, Hollywood wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:08 pm, wrote:





On Oct 12, 7:05?am, Hollywood wrote:

On Oct 11, 9:27 pm, wrote:

What does a 20 carb day look like to you? Do you watch calories at all
or do you just make yourself sick on steaks? What if you had to stay
there *forever*, what would you do?

Make yourself sick on steaks? I'm unclear on the concept. If I had to
eat
steaks forever, I think I could live with that.

It's in the framing. If you frame it a priori, as "sick on steaks" you
will be
there before you know it. If you frame it as, "I get to eat steak, ad
libitum,
forever, and I can put compound butter on it? Lucky me," you've
already
won.

Hm. When I said, " make yourself sick" -- I meant "overeat" or " eat
til you're stuffed".

I certainly did not mean to violate or impugn the fine, right and very
good honourable Beefysteak as the King of All Foods.

In Taubes, people fasting don't feel hungry.
If you give them 300-600 calories of fat and protein, they don't feel
hungry.
If you give them 800-1000 calories of fat and protein, and, yeah,
they don't feel hungry.
And so it is at 1200 cals, 1500 cals, 1800 cals, 2300 cals, and
up to ad libitum.

If you give them 1500 cals and add in a bunch of carb, they are
ravenous.

I guess the lesson is: It doesn't need to be a 42 oz porterhouse
or the king cut prime rib. It works fine with that, but it also works
fine with a few chicken thighs or beef tournedos (fillet mignon) w/
a nice matrie d'hotel butter.

I don't get "sick on steaks", but I don't watch calories either.
Build with protein first, then add some minimal carbs. Maybe.

Breakfast is a shake. breakfast snack is a shake or some
cottage cheese or some chicken wings or eggs and breakfast
meat. Lunch is leftovers or hot wings, maybe some veg. Snack 2
is nuts, if I have it. Dinner is meat and maybe some veg. And maybe
some fruit after. I'm not at a point where quantity matters much. I
let my body tell me whats enough and whats too much. I'm getting
there on it.

265/207/195 @ 6'2" M- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, what you've got there looks like 20 or under, some days. I
always wonder too how the noncalorie watchers are doing. Atkins says
don't worry about it and when I was massive I just ate. When I got
closer to goal I couldn't do that anymore and I had count calories.

Congrats on your 50+ loss.

c
and peace reigned through the kingdom once more

"UsenetID" wrote in message
...
This is how we eat probably 5 days out of every 7. Weekends we tend to
cut loose and have a sandwich on low carb bread, bowl of popcorn (heavy
butter), or other indulgence.

Brevity snips

Have you had you cholerstrol levels checked recently? Have they gone up,
down or stayed the same low-carbing?

On Oct 13, 2:18 pm, wrote:
On Oct 13, 9:45?am, Hollywood wrote:



On Oct 12, 3:08 pm, wrote:

On Oct 12, 7:05?am, Hollywood wrote:

On Oct 11, 9:27 pm, wrote:

What does a 20 carb day look like to you? Do you watch calories at all
or do you just make yourself sick on steaks? What if you had to stay
there *forever*, what would you do?

Make yourself sick on steaks? I'm unclear on the concept. If I had to
eat
steaks forever, I think I could live with that.

It's in the framing. If you frame it a priori, as "sick on steaks" you
will be
there before you know it. If you frame it as, "I get to eat steak, ad
libitum,
forever, and I can put compound butter on it? Lucky me," you've
already
won.

Hm. When I said, " make yourself sick" -- I meant "overeat" or " eat
til you're stuffed".

I certainly did not mean to violate or impugn the fine, right and very
good honourable Beefysteak as the King of All Foods.

In Taubes, people fasting don't feel hungry.
If you give them 300-600 calories of fat and protein, they don't feel
hungry.
If you give them 800-1000 calories of fat and protein, and, yeah,
they don't feel hungry.
And so it is at 1200 cals, 1500 cals, 1800 cals, 2300 cals, and
up to ad libitum.

If you give them 1500 cals and add in a bunch of carb, they are
ravenous.

I guess the lesson is: It doesn't need to be a 42 oz porterhouse
or the king cut prime rib. It works fine with that, but it also works
fine with a few chicken thighs or beef tournedos (fillet mignon) w/
a nice matrie d'hotel butter.

I don't get "sick on steaks", but I don't watch calories either.
Build with protein first, then add some minimal carbs. Maybe.

Breakfast is a shake. breakfast snack is a shake or some
cottage cheese or some chicken wings or eggs and breakfast
meat. Lunch is leftovers or hot wings, maybe some veg. Snack 2
is nuts, if I have it. Dinner is meat and maybe some veg. And maybe
some fruit after. I'm not at a point where quantity matters much. I
let my body tell me whats enough and whats too much. I'm getting
there on it.

265/207/195 @ 6'2" M- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, what you've got there looks like 20 or under, some days. I
always wonder too how the noncalorie watchers are doing. Atkins says
don't worry about it and when I was massive I just ate. When I got
closer to goal I couldn't do that anymore and I had count calories.

Congrats on your 50+ loss.

When I stall, I make adjustments. I stalled at 230, so I ate more. It
broke the stall. I'm stalled around where I am now, but this is more
a compliance issue. Am tracking for consecutive days and if I haven't
lost anything by Thanksgiving, will make adjustments, probably to
3 meals instead of 5. As I do things, this would be calorie
restriction.
But, as Dr. A might've told ya, as Adam Campbell and Jeff Volek do
tell you (Men's Health's TNT Diet) and as the Eades tell ya, at will
doesn't mean ad infinitum. I think I might've had 5000+ calorie days
as a carb addict. I'm pretty sure I haven't come close as a recovering
carb addict.

Circular bit: When I was stalled around 230 last year in Nov/Dec, I
was eating, through the miracles of protein/fat satiety, 15-1700 kcal
per day. When I started losing again, I was at 17-2100 kcal. Truly,
Taubes is correct that it's not the calories, in every instance.

wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
wrote:

Lots of good reasons to go to 20 and stay there.

None of which have to do with loss after reaching some level above
ideal ...

And I'll repeat - Lots of folks who stay at 20 stall. Then they fail
to follow the directions of moving on to OWL. Instead they assert
that "Atkins stopped working for me". Just how many times have
you heard someone say that? So often it's from the ones who
never even tried OWL. When I tracked posters for every one who
lost well staying on Induction (only counting folks who started
with only 80- to lose because that's part of the deal as well) there
were 7 who stalled staying on Induction. Anecdotal evidence is
not scientifically valid evidence but has anyone at all gathered
data on the topic? Check out any study you like on sutained
Induction and see how small the losses are ...

And of course folks without even anecdotal evidence love to
complain that my anecdotal evidence isn't valid, and then they
start making assertions based on no data at all.

My CCLL is 50. When I did 6 months at 35 because it's easy, I
lost nothing for that 6 months and I dropped out of ketosis. It
took a year to figure out what I'd done to myself.

So what had you done to yourself? Do you think your low T3 was causing
you to burn carbs? Liver shutdown? I don't get what happened.

I fell out of ketonuria. Get the 1993 edition of the book. Look up
"reversal diet" in the index. Start reading about a page up. Dr A
encountered people who had done themselves metabolic damage
by staying on Induction far too long. Treating Atkins as a fad diet
really.

The few Inuits who live the traditional hunting lifestyle on the ice
eat near zero carbs for months on end and they don't lose weight.
Cats fed meat don't lose either. There's an evolved in metabolic
mechanism to handle it. It's about T3 and leptin. What I did to
myself is I put myself into that hunter/carnivore mode and as a
result I stopped losing.

Do NOT think that if low carbs is good then lower must be better.
If to were true every book out there would say it. Folks love to
quote Dr A out of context on the topic but he means going above
CCLL and/or CCLM.

The mechanism - Leptin somehow tracks 1) amount of stored
body fat and 2) the highest carb level eaten in the last several
months. Leptin drives T3 output among other metabolic drivers.
T3 drives resting metabolism. Drive leptin by sustained 20, drop
to having insufficient excess body fat. It's why the rules for
extending Induction are what they are - Maximum length of 6
months after the day you no longer have "a lot to lose". He
never defines that one either but gather a bit of data and you'll
pick a number in the range of 80-100 left to lose.

The biological mechanisms of lose aren't obvious. If they were,
no one would be fat. Staying on Induction because you want
it to work better than following the directions, do you really
think there's any chance Dr A failed to try that before designing
a system that doesn't do that?

On Oct 12, 11:27 am, wrote:
What does a 20 carb day look like to you? Do you watch calories at all
or do you just make yourself sick on steaks? What if you had to stay
there *forever*, what would you do?

Personally , I eat a lot of eggs and hamburger, but I know I only have
to live like that for two weeks of induction. If I'm cutting carbs and
not on Induction ( which I've only officially done five times in ten
years) I'll eat Advantage bars, the tops of pizzas, cantaloupe, weird
food experiments, etc.

Just curious.

c
diet recon

I lost 46 kgs (look up the conversion) 25 years ago and have kept if
off, even after having 3 kids. I managed to get to 86 kg, I'm 5ft
6in, and now weight around 48 kg. Not difficult after a tricky start.
Coldoll