Sometimes you just gotta do it (i.e, I bought a bike!!)

Duffy Pratt wrote:
:: Congrats. This is one of the bikes I had in mind when I was trying
:: to push
:: you up a notch. The Specialized 105 components, carbon fork,
:: and the
:: wheels are all a significant step up.

Good. I'm glad I listened. I took my first ride on it this morning, and
with the skin-tight biking shorts with crotch padding, the bike is amazingly
comfortable.

::
:: My bike doesn't fit in my trunk, and I don't have a rack. When I
:: need to
:: travel with it, I put the front wheel in the front seat or trunk,
:: put a
:: plastic tarp over the leather seats in the back, and put it
:: carefully in the
:: back. It just fits. This is enough of a pain in the neck that I
:: don't
:: lightly throw the bike in the car.

I tried, but had no luck in my camry. I just sprung for the rack.

::
:: Yakima has a good reputation for racks.

Good to hear you say that. The bike shop owner said the same thing while
claiming ot have been in business for 30-odd years and to have tried every
possible rack available. I just went with that.

::I'm sure the rear rack will
:: do what
:: you want. The big question on them is the ease of putting them on
:: and off
:: the bike.

I've got the thing adjusted and I understand how to put it on. I think it
will only take 5 minutes to attach the rack to the car, and about 2 for the
bike to the rack, once I've perfected the technique. That's what I'm
shooting for anyhow.

I wouldn't want to use a rear rack because a fender
:: bender turns
:: into something much worse for me.
::
:: When I used a rack, it was a roof rack, and it works great, unless
:: someone
:: forgets that the bike is on the roof while going into a parking
:: garage.

I'm sure I'd eventually forgot!

:: I've seen that happen and its not pretty. The best solution for a
:: single
:: bike from a convenience standpoint is probably a hatchback, but I'm
:: not
:: about to buy a car for my bike.

I thought of doing that

::
:: I also don't use locks, and never have. I can see why you might
:: want one to
:: lock the bike on the car. Some racks have a lock feature included,
:: or they
:: did 15 years ago. When getting a lock, pay some attention to how
:: hard it
:: would be to tear the rack itself off your trunk. There is no point
:: to
:: getting a lock which is more secure than your rack system itself.
::

True. Someone familiar with the rack will be able to remove the rack
quickly. So, that would me (IMO) that a biker would be likely to steal if,
assuming the car was not sitting unattended for a very long with with the
rack/bike attached.

:: Every time I put myself regularly into a lower position, I can feel
:: something in my neck and shoulders. It should gradually go away.
:: One thing
:: you should try to assess is how natural your position is when
:: stretched
:: forward. When riding naturally forward, you should have a pretty
:: straight
:: back. If you are hunched over in the back, you are probably riding
:: a little
:: more horizontal than you can now sustain. To get your position
:: lower and
:: more comfortable, you should gradually lenghten and lower your upper
:: body
:: position. When you take a more aggressive position, you should
:: think about
:: straightening your back, and having a straight angle between legs
:: and torso,
:: instead of an arch. It will come over time.

I intend to practice the technique so that I don't develop bad habits. I
have a tendency to want to ride so that my arms are fully extended.

::
:: Also, the harder you are pushing your legs, the easier it is to lean
:: forward.
:: You can try this by running up steps. If you go harder running up
:: steps, it
:: becomes natural to lean forward and use your arms and legs together
:: on the
:: steps.

Right. I've seen exactly this when speed walking up a steep hill for HIIT.
Leaning forward allows one to apply more power and hence go faster.

::
:: No hands riding is a question of balance and confidence, and bike
:: geometry
:: to a certain extent. I will ride with no hands when I need to
:: stretch my
:: upper body. It will be easy to learn again. First, you need to
:: train
:: yourself to ride in a straight line. This is not as easy as it
:: sounds. I
:: see lots of recreational cyclists who pedal so unevenly that their
:: front
:: wheel jumps on every stroke, and others who could not hold steady on
:: a white
:: line if their life depended on it (and mine sometimes does!).
::
:: Then get comfortable doing this with both hands on the bars as close
:: as
:: possible to the headset. This is the two hand position that offers
:: the
:: least stability. But its still pretty easy. Then get comfortable
:: riding in
:: a straight line, pedalling, while doing other things with either
:: hand --
:: cleaning debris off front wheel if you have gloves, reaching for
:: water
:: bottles, eating, reaching in the seat bag, grabbing your shoes,
:: etc...
:: Doing this stuff will get you very comfortable with the feel of the
:: bike.
:: Now go back to the hands by headset position. Ride one handed, and
:: experiment pulling the other one off for a second. You will know
:: quickly if
:: you have the confidence to sit up or not. Again it will come with
:: time.
:: Also, the faster you are going, the easier it is to do.

Thanks, I'll keep this post for reference!

::
:: One thing you should be aware of. Many bikes have a resonant
:: frequency at
:: which the front wheel will shimmy. This is not a defect, but is a
:: natural
:: result of certain combinations of frame geometry and rider. The the
:: shimmy
:: occurs, the front of the bike will start to bounce left and right,
:: and the
:: bounce will become more severe the longer you let it go on. A
:: finger on the
:: handlebars is enough to stop this shimmy. My bike has this effect at
:: somewhere between 19-20 mph, depending on the pavement. At these
:: speeds, if
:: I ride no handed, the front wheel will start to shake, and then
:: literally to
:: bounce left to right. Its both funny and unnerving. The solution
:: is to
:: ride either faster or slower, or to put a hand on the bars to damp
:: the
:: frequency resonance. If you find this happening with your bike,
:: don't
:: panic, don't assume anything drastic is going wrong, and don't take
:: it as an
:: indication that you should never ride with no hands.

Right. It will be interesting to see where my bike resonants. So far, I've
only been up to 18 mph on a flat straight. I had to abort before I could
get faster since I ran out of room on the straight

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...

I'm wondering if I ought to start riding my stationary as a means for
extra
training for street biking in a hilly area. Basically, I'm thinking of
high/low intervals for short duration.

You will be better off doing the high/low intervals on your bike. Both will
help you build the strength and wind you need for climbing hills, but
anything on the bike will help you with the riding co-ordination you will
develop. For really steep hills, you climb almost as much with your arms
and back as with your legs. A good climber will get into a nice side to
side rhythm with his upper body. It's something that can't easily be done
on a stationary bike, if it can be done at all.

Duffy

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...

I intend to practice the technique so that I don't develop bad habits. I
have a tendency to want to ride so that my arms are fully extended.

This is something that you really want to avoid. Your elbows are your best
shock absorbers. If your elbows are bent, you will save lots of wear and
tear on your wrists, shoulders, upperback and neck. If they are extended to
the point where they are almost straight, you are asking for more long term
pain than you deserve.

Riding with straight arms is a habit that I have almost broken, but still
fall into sometimes. It either caused, or played a role in, a nagging
rotator cuff injury in my left shoulder. This is one of those pains which
is never so bad that it is debilitating, but alway sort of there in the
background.

Glad to hear you got the shorts and the helmet. Hopefully, you will never
need the helmet, and that its just money down the drain. You will soon
wonder, however, how anyone could ride any distance wearing shorts without
the chamois.

Duffy

"Pat" wrote in message
...

If I read your post right, if I will coast downhill with my hands off of
the
bike and my leg across the top tube I'll be okay!

G

Yes. I once saw a film of a bicycle racer coming over the finish after a
successful long breakaway. They tend to come over the line with both arms
up in a victory salute. When he put his arms up, the front of the bike went
into a pretty severe shimmy. Without missing a beat, he squeezed his legs
together on the top tube, stopping the shimmy, and held onto his triumphant
salute.

I sometimes let my bike shimmy, because its cool to look at. Because of the
gyroscopic effect of the front wheel, you don't really lose control of your
direction, even when the wheel starts to bounce.

Duffy

Pat wrote:
Excuse me, I was laughing so much I couldn't respond right away. Even in
Texas we have hills so great that a person is in danger of falling over from
going so slowly up the hill! Going DOWN Cedal Hill, outside of Dallas, I
was going over 39 MPH just coasting! While going up that sucker in the Red
Hot Chili Pepper ride recently, I passed 8 people just standing on the side
of the road with glazed over eyes and 4 people walking their bikes up it.
There is no telling what Bob M. in CT has to ride up when he goes for a long
ride.

I've never need the low range. I've been on a lot of hills. But as I
said, I use a mountain bike. The gears are lower.

So, if he wants to go to a place 50 miles away to ride---or join somebody he
knows---he should ride there first?

He says he wants to use the bike to burn off the remaining fat. Driving
in a car for 50 miles won't do it. If he wants to use the bike to burn
off the remaining fat, he should get on the bike and ride it. If he has
to drive 50 miles in a car just to ride the bike, he would be better off
going to the gym and riding the spinners bike. Then he would save the
hour it would take to drive his car to where he wants to ride. Of
course, if his real desire is to ride in some particular place and not,
as he said, mainly to burn off the remaining fat, then he should drive
wherever he wants to go. The point is that pushing and pulling pedals
doesn't have to be done in certain bike places. It sounded to me like he
was trying to set himself up as a bicycle peacock, with all the right
tools and gear and clothes, and he was going to drive in his car to all
the bike riding places --- instead of riding the bike.

martin

--
Wesley Clark for President
www.AmericansForClark.com

Martin Smith

Roger Zoul wrote:
No way!!! For what I spent, I'll be damned if I don't ride.

See, that's what I'm trying to get at. You are setting yourself up for
failure. Now you will ride out of guilt instead of the joy of making
your body work hard. Working har on your bike will require putting the
rack on the car, the bike on the rack, and driving somewhere, and you
will do it because you'll be damned if you don't ride, because you spent
all that money.

I just sprung
for a rack. Problem solved, imo. Since you mentioned it, I don't consider
the path from here to anywhere very bike friendly. First, hills everywhere

I think what threw me is when you said you wanted to ride the bike to
burn off your remaining fat. It will certainly do that, but riding up
hills would enhance the effect. Plus you've got all those gears to use.

(bad now, but not nearly so much later) but the right problem, as I see is,
is narrow roads and lots of cars. There are better and safer places I can
ride for now. On weekdays, I'm going to ride in the neighborhood, and
practice the hills and looking our for cars, etc. On weekends, I'll use the
rack to go to near nearby park that have several nice riding trails. There
is another location near the Donaldson Center than people regularly meet up
at for rides. And there are several other 25, 50, and 100-mile type tours
in this part of SC...so I'm planning on working up to my first 25 miler
soon.

When you say "nearby park," I'm thinking you should just ride the bike
there and leave the car at home. You did say you had done a lot of High
Intensity Interval Training, right. You did say you had done a lot of
aerobic work. What's the problem?

::: Second, what kind of lock should I get? I wanted one of those
::: heavy U locks rather than a cable lock. However, with two water
::: bottles, there isn't a lot of room for a U lock. What shall I do
::: there? And, do people lock the bike to the rack while it is
::: attached to the car?
::
:: I use one of the flexible metal link locks you often see used by
:: motorcyclists.

Yes, that sounds like a good option. I saw one of those somewhere, but the
bike shop didn't have any. That seems pretty hard to defeat for your
typical hit-and-run bike thief.

They can defeat anything, but the metal sausage link lock works when you
don't have a place to mount the D-bolt type lock, because you can wrapit
around the frame twice in back of the handle bars when it isn't in use
(you can on a mountain bike anyway).

Basically, if you are going to leave it somewhere you
:: have to lock it to a very substantial object. One practice is to
:: "age"
:: your bike by scraping it up and sanding it and repainting it so that
:: it
:: looks like ****. Thieves are less inclined to steel something that
:: looks
:: like ****.

Good idea. Of course, then it won't look good to me either

Strive not to try to look good while riding. Just keep the bike in good
repair. Replace equipment *before* it breaks. Learn how to change a tire
(you might need to do a lot of that with a road bike). Lear how to
adjust break pads.

::: I'd like to thank those of you here who have encouraged me to get
::: into biking. I haven't been on a real bike since age 12 (I'm 45
::: now). It was a bit shakey at first, but I seem to have
::: "remembered" quickly. I still don't have all the skills back --
::: like riding with no hands and riding standing up on the peddles,
::: but I hope those will return once I get in more "saddle" time
::
:: Endeavor to avoid riding with no hands.

I hear ya. Not something I plan to do a lot, but it provides (to me) and
extra opporunity to stretch and I think it also says something about my
confidence and skill on the bike. That is really what I'm after with that
notion. I used to do this will no problem, but now I'm freaked by that
notion.

I fell yesterday, and I wasn't even doing something wrong. When you
stretch while riding with no hands, you run the risk of doing something
that will change the vector of the gyroscopic force. I'm not sure what
the correct term is. Basically, if you do something asymmetrical and you
don't have your hands on the steering, down you go.

::: Oh, I'm wondering when my neck will get sore, as when I'm riding I
::: feel as though I'm looking up at a tall building from very near it.
::: How does one deal with that neck position? Options for changing
::: head position seem limited...
::
:: Well, that's why I would have bought a mountain bike rather than a
:: road
:: bike. My neck gets sore on road bikes. I ride a mountain bike with
:: the
:: handle bars set as I as possible. I also get better traction in the
:: winter, and I don't have to worry so much about uneven road surfaces.

Yeah, I hear ya. However, I didn't like the feel of the mountain bike. The
feel of it was very alien to me.

I'm sure you bought well. Now there is a lot to learn. Enjoy it. It will
be worth all your effort.

martin

--
Wesley Clark for President
www.AmericansForClark.com

Martin Smith

M.W. Smith wrote:
:: Pat wrote:
::: Excuse me, I was laughing so much I couldn't respond right away.
::: Even in Texas we have hills so great that a person is in danger of
::: falling over from going so slowly up the hill! Going DOWN Cedal
::: Hill, outside of Dallas, I was going over 39 MPH just coasting!
::: While going up that sucker in the Red Hot Chili Pepper ride
::: recently, I passed 8 people just standing on the side of the road
::: with glazed over eyes and 4 people walking their bikes up it. There
::: is no telling what Bob M. in CT has to ride up when he goes for a
::: long ride.
::
:: I've never need the low range. I've been on a lot of hills. But as I
:: said, I use a mountain bike. The gears are lower.
::
::: So, if he wants to go to a place 50 miles away to ride---or join
::: somebody he knows---he should ride there first?
::
:: He says he wants to use the bike to burn off the remaining fat.

Right. You probably missed the part where I said I have a stationary and am
bored to death of riding it.

:: Driving
:: in a car for 50 miles won't do it.

On Saturdays and Sundays, I think it will. However, I just want to go less
than about 10 miles away right now. I plan on doing early am rides and
evening rides, at first. Also, it takes about 5 minutes to put the rack on
the car.

If he wants to use the bike to
:: burn
:: off the remaining fat, he should get on the bike and ride it. If he
:: has
:: to drive 50 miles in a car just to ride the bike, he would be better
:: off going to the gym and riding the spinners bike.

Spinners bike? They don't have those at my gym. I do ride the stepper
thing and the recumbent bikes now and again.

Then he would
:: save the
:: hour it would take to drive his car to where he wants to ride. Of
:: course, if his real desire is to ride in some particular place and
:: not,
:: as he said, mainly to burn off the remaining fat, then he should
:: drive wherever he wants to go. The point is that pushing and pulling
:: pedals
:: doesn't have to be done in certain bike places. It sounded to me
:: like he
:: was trying to set himself up as a bicycle peacock, with all the right
:: tools and gear and clothes, and he was going to drive in his car to
:: all
:: the bike riding places --- instead of riding the bike.

No way! Bicycle peacock

M.W. Smith wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: No way!!! For what I spent, I'll be damned if I don't ride.
::
:: See, that's what I'm trying to get at. You are setting yourself up
:: for failure. Now you will ride out of guilt instead of the joy of
:: making
:: your body work hard. Working har on your bike will require putting
:: the
:: rack on the car, the bike on the rack, and driving somewhere, and you
:: will do it because you'll be damned if you don't ride, because you
:: spent
:: all that money.

Guilt? I spent $800 on a stationary bike. I road that damn thing long and
hard. The fact that I spend that money meant to me that I was determined to
use it, not that I felt guilty. The fact that I bought this bike means that
I am determined to change some habits in my life -- riding an stationary
bike is just too boring, but riding a bike on the road is a lot of fun and
good exercise. Driving 50 to 100 miles on a weekend to enjoy a bike riding
event is something good, and I plan to build up to that. I see nothing
wrong with that.

Oh, and I'll be damned if I don't ride that bike.


::
::: I just sprung
::: for a rack. Problem solved, imo. Since you mentioned it, I don't
::: consider the path from here to anywhere very bike friendly. First,
::: hills everywhere
::
:: I think what threw me is when you said you wanted to ride the bike to
:: burn off your remaining fat. It will certainly do that, but riding up
:: hills would enhance the effect. Plus you've got all those gears to
:: use.

I do. However, I've grown bored of riding stationary bikes. This one gives
me something new and fun.

And yes, you are right, riding up hills will enhance the effect -- but
damn - there are lots of them here and some are quite steep and long.

::
::: (bad now, but not nearly so much later) but the right problem, as I
::: see is, is narrow roads and lots of cars. There are better and
::: safer places I can ride for now. On weekdays, I'm going to ride in
::: the neighborhood, and practice the hills and looking our for cars,
::: etc. On weekends, I'll use the rack to go to near nearby park that
::: have several nice riding trails. There is another location near
::: the Donaldson Center than people regularly meet up at for rides.
::: And there are several other 25, 50, and 100-mile type tours in this
::: part of SC...so I'm planning on working up to my first 25 miler
::: soon.
::
:: When you say "nearby park," I'm thinking you should just ride the
:: bike
:: there and leave the car at home.

I would agree with this had I a good route to get there. Maybe I'll find
one, but the most direct route is just too dangerous, imo. I never see any
experienced bikers on that road.

You did say you had done a lot of
:: High Intensity Interval Training, right. You did say you had done a
:: lot of
:: aerobic work. What's the problem?

Staying alive.


::
:::::: Second, what kind of lock should I get? I wanted one of those
:::::: heavy U locks rather than a cable lock. However, with two water
:::::: bottles, there isn't a lot of room for a U lock. What shall I do
:::::: there? And, do people lock the bike to the rack while it is
:::::: attached to the car?
:::::
::::: I use one of the flexible metal link locks you often see used by
::::: motorcyclists.
:::
::: Yes, that sounds like a good option. I saw one of those somewhere,
::: but the bike shop didn't have any. That seems pretty hard to
::: defeat for your typical hit-and-run bike thief.
::
:: They can defeat anything, but the metal sausage link lock works when
:: you don't have a place to mount the D-bolt type lock, because you
:: can wrapit around the frame twice in back of the handle bars when it
:: isn't in use (you can on a mountain bike anyway).

I see. I'll have to find one before buying to see if it will work.

::
::: Basically, if you are going to leave it somewhere you
::::: have to lock it to a very substantial object. One practice is to
::::: "age"
::::: your bike by scraping it up and sanding it and repainting it so
::::: that
::::: it
::::: looks like ****. Thieves are less inclined to steel something that
::::: looks
::::: like ****.
:::
::: Good idea. Of course, then it won't look good to me either
::
:: Strive not to try to look good while riding.

I agree that that's not the most important thing, but I like to look my best
whenever.

:: Just keep the bike in
:: good repair. Replace equipment *before* it breaks. Learn how to
:: change a tire (you might need to do a lot of that with a road bike).
:: Lear how to
:: adjust break pads.

Yes, that's good advice. I plan to ride weekdays in my neigborhood, so if I
get a flat I'll get practice not far from home.

::
:::::: I'd like to thank those of you here who have encouraged me to get
:::::: into biking. I haven't been on a real bike since age 12 (I'm 45
:::::: now). It was a bit shakey at first, but I seem to have
:::::: "remembered" quickly. I still don't have all the skills back --
:::::: like riding with no hands and riding standing up on the peddles,
:::::: but I hope those will return once I get in more "saddle" time
:::::
::::: Endeavor to avoid riding with no hands.
:::
::: I hear ya. Not something I plan to do a lot, but it provides (to
::: me) and extra opporunity to stretch and I think it also says
::: something about my confidence and skill on the bike. That is
::: really what I'm after with that notion. I used to do this will no
::: problem, but now I'm freaked by that notion.
::
:: I fell yesterday, and I wasn't even doing something wrong.

On a bike? What caused you to fall?

When you
:: stretch while riding with no hands, you run the risk of doing
:: something
:: that will change the vector of the gyroscopic force. I'm not sure
:: what
:: the correct term is. Basically, if you do something asymmetrical and
:: you don't have your hands on the steering, down you go.

Right....but as I said before, I did this all the time as a kid and I didn't
worry about gyroscopie force. It was fun. I don't plan to do this kind of
thing as a rule or in very dangerous situations. And I doubt I'll push it.
I'll only do it when I feel completely safe with it.

::
:::::: Oh, I'm wondering when my neck will get sore, as when I'm riding
:::::: I
:::::: feel as though I'm looking up at a tall building from very near
:::::: it.
:::::: How does one deal with that neck position? Options for changing
:::::: head position seem limited...
:::::
::::: Well, that's why I would have bought a mountain bike rather than a
::::: road
::::: bike. My neck gets sore on road bikes. I ride a mountain bike with
::::: the
::::: handle bars set as I as possible. I also get better traction in
::::: the winter, and I don't have to worry so much about uneven road
::::: surfaces.
:::
::: Yeah, I hear ya. However, I didn't like the feel of the mountain
::: bike. The feel of it was very alien to me.
::
:: I'm sure you bought well. Now there is a lot to learn. Enjoy it. It
:: will
:: be worth all your effort.

Right. My weekday rides will help a lot with the learning part, I hope.
Thanks.

It sounds to me like you want to drive to other locations mostly because you
are not comfortable yet with riding in the traffic near your house. You
also describe the nearby roads as being narrow, which I assume means they
have very limited shoulder space.

Your confidence in traffic will develop over time. But you are clearly
right not to push yourself into places where you aren't comfortable. I will
ride just about anywhere -- I used to ride city streets in Manhattan, and
there is no place I have seen that is more harrowing. My wife doesn't have
my confidence, and probably has more sense than me. When I ride with her,
I'm alot more selective about the roads we use. If you spend all your time
worried about cars, you won't have any fun, and you won't work as hard as
you could.

Duffy

I think you said that wasn't important However, I'm saying it can't
hurt,
even though it certainly is low on the list of things to be thinking about
while being on a road bike!

I don't care much about looking good, but I pick my jerseys to be as garish
as possible. I tend towards yellow and orange colors because those are the
"caution" colors in traffic. I want drivers to see me from far away. If
they think I look funny, its alot better than their not noticing me in the
first place.

Duffy