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Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 13th, 2012, 08:42 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
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Posts: 540
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...rt-attack.html

Nothing scientific here, of course. We just don't have enough
information (yet). But it does serve as an example of just how complex
heart disease can be. And also how misinformed a person can be.

What kind of oils did he cook his food in? Vegetable oils, which cause
inflammation? Trans fats? What was his BP? What was his hsC-RP? What
kind of exercise did he get? How much sugar did he eat? Was he on
statins? Etc. Etc. Etc.

But not eating meat for over three years obviously didn't do him any
good, did it? Something (which resulted in CHD, and then a heart
attack) killed this guy, and we'll probably never know what it was
(but I'm sure there will be lots of conjecture).

Nota bene: It's one thing to love animals, but it's something else to
love them more than you love yourself. When he said that he learned
that "meat stays in your system for years, and it's rotting...," I
almost fell out of my chair. Apparently he's never heard of the
digestive system, and how it works.
http://www.gnolls.org/1444/does-meat...nd-vegetables/

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #2  
Old July 19th, 2012, 04:41 PM
Stawley Stawley is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by WeightlossBanter: Jul 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have been unrelated to nutrition.
  #3  
Old July 19th, 2012, 09:31 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'

On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley
wrote:

Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have
been unrelated to nutrition.


Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding
"high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart
attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles,
along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even
your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be
affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics.

One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't
prevent him from having a heart attack.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #4  
Old July 20th, 2012, 10:09 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
B. Terry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'

On 2012-07-19 20:31:36 +0000, Dogman said:

On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley
wrote:

Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have
been unrelated to nutrition.


Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding
"high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart
attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles,
along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even
your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be
affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics.

One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't
prevent him from having a heart attack.




--
B. Terry

  #5  
Old July 20th, 2012, 04:37 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care aftersuffering heart attack'

On Jul 19, 4:31*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley

wrote:
Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have
been unrelated to nutrition.


Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding
"high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart
attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles,
along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even
your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be
affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics.

One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't
prevent him from having a heart attack.

--
Dogman


Of course it's totally meaningless that one vegetarian
had a heart attack. No one credible in the real world of
science and medicine has ever said any diet will prevent
100% of heart attacks.
  #6  
Old July 20th, 2012, 05:25 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:37:34 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 19, 4:31*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley

wrote:
Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have
been unrelated to nutrition.


Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding
"high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart
attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles,
along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even
your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be
affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics.

One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't
prevent him from having a heart attack.

--
Dogman


Of course it's totally meaningless that one vegetarian
had a heart attack.
No one credible in the real world of
science and medicine has ever said any diet will prevent
100% of heart attacks.


Tru dat (not that you'd know a real scientist if he bit you in the
ass). But many "scientists" claim the risk is significantly *lowered*
by eating vegetarian and vegan diets.

Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had
LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National
Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had
LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first
place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for
them, to avoid CAD, etc. And that's too bad.

And so is taking statins, for the vast majority of us.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman
  #7  
Old July 25th, 2012, 01:18 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Ivan The Not-So-Bad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care aftersuffering heart attack'

On 2012-07-20, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:37:34 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 19, 4:31Â*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:00 +0000, Stawley

wrote:
Hum, difficult t osay what caused the heart attack, isn't it? could have
been unrelated to nutrition.

Maybe. But whether you agree with the conventional wisdom regarding
"high" cholesterol levels, etc., being largely responsible for heart
attacks, or not, diet and nutrition almost certainly play key roles,
along with lifestyle factors and genetics. On the other hand, even
your genetics (based on the diet and nutrition of your parents) can be
affected by lifestyle and nutrition. See: epigenetics.

One thing we do know is: A low-cholesterol vegetarian diet didn't
prevent him from having a heart attack.

--
Dogman


Of course it's totally meaningless that one vegetarian
had a heart attack.
No one credible in the real world of
science and medicine has ever said any diet will prevent
100% of heart attacks.


Tru dat (not that you'd know a real scientist if he bit you in the
ass). But many "scientists" claim the risk is significantly *lowered*
by eating vegetarian and vegan diets.

Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had
LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National
Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had
LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first
place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for
them, to avoid CAD, etc.


Do you have any sources sugggesting this is why most people are
vegetarian/vegan?


And that's too bad.

And so is taking statins, for the vast majority of us.

  #8  
Old July 25th, 2012, 08:06 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,866
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'

Dogman wrote:
Ivan The Not-So-Bad wrote:

Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had
LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National
Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had
LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract


And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first
place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for
them, to avoid CAD, etc.


Do you have any sources sugggesting this is why most people are
vegetarian/vegan?


Not really. It's just a personal hunch based on knowing many
vegetarians/vegans.

Besides the so-called ethical, religious or political reasons for not
wanting to eat animal flesh, eggs, fish, milk, shellfish, cheese,
etc., what other reason could there be to want to deprive oneself of
some the most nutritious and tasty foods on the planet? Foods that
human beings have evolved to eat for millions of years.


I suggest that many go vegetarian because they sincerely believe it to
be beneficial. Likely their only point of comparison is a diet high in
junk food that's so bad even going vegetarian is better.

This would make them dupes to the anti-meat propaganda. Demand side
rather than supply side.

Consider that for decades many pushed margarine because they sincerely
believed it was more beneficial than butter. They were wrong but they
were in place long enough that many of us grew up in an era of margarine
use. Because people tend to like their toddler foods for life we see
products that are margarines made with no transfats. Smart Balance. I
like it because I have the minority taste of prefering margarine to
butter having had margarine as toddler food.

At very least the vegetarians are moving away form junk food. Too far
away but it is something. And it they are doing because they want
health then they should be subject to education.

I have no wish to push anyone who is a vegetarian for religious, moral
or political reasons to stop. Some reasons are worth the slightly lower
health. And people who practice for those reasons tend to follow
traditional systems that are well designed so they don't have health
impacts. Rather like the few Inuits who still live the traditional
hunting lifestyle on the ice are very healthy even though they eat
nothing but (very broadly defined) meat for months on end.
  #9  
Old July 26th, 2012, 02:48 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Walter Bushell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 142
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

On 25 Jul 2012 00:18:29 GMT, Ivan The Not-So-Bad
wrote:

[...]
Despite the scientific evidence that 75% of patients with CAD had
LDL-cholesterol levels *below* the current guidelines of the National
Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) of 130 milligrams (50% had
LDL-cholesterol levels below 100 milligrams!).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

And why do most people eat vegetarian and vegan diets in the first
place? Because they think fat and cholesterol (per se) are bad for
them, to avoid CAD, etc.


Do you have any sources sugggesting this is why most people are
vegetarian/vegan?


Not really. It's just a personal hunch based on knowing many
vegetarians/vegans.


Is your sample sized sufficiently random and large enough? You're
interested in nutrition so perhaps that produces sampling errors.

Besides the so-called ethical, religious or political reasons for not
wanting to eat animal flesh, eggs, fish, milk, shellfish, cheese,
etc., what other reason could there be to want to deprive oneself of
some the most nutritious and tasty foods on the planet? Foods that
human beings have evolved to eat for millions of years.


There friends are vegans and they want to maintain and deepen
friendships? They are self destructive? They have an aversion to
eating in general?

--
This space unintentionally left blank.
  #10  
Old July 26th, 2012, 02:53 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Walter Bushell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 142
Default Vegetarian star Michael Clarke Duncan 'in intensive care after suffering heart attack'

In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote:

I have no wish to push anyone who is a vegetarian for religious, moral
or political reasons to stop. Some reasons are worth the slightly lower
health. And people who practice for those reasons tend to follow
traditional systems that are well designed so they don't have health
impacts. Rather like the few Inuits who still live the traditional
hunting lifestyle on the ice are very healthy even though they eat
nothing but (very broadly defined) meat for months on end.


But ah, vegans in England ran into problems with B12, because the
grains in England did not contain as many insects as in India. A
little human dung (or from other animals) in the vegetables also helps.

--
This space unintentionally left blank.
 




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