lowering of metabolism after weight loss

"Ignoramus19113" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:54:07 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
Exactly, and I just wrote that above in a very different
form. Most of the stress is on the common knowledge and
on what seems to be obvious. The approach does not work.
The fact that some *do* manage to keep it off means there
*are* approaches that do work.

In the weight loss registry people who kept off over 60 pounds (i
think) for more than 5 years, 91% exercised their ass off.

The actual number for exercise was 2,800 calories per week. That's 400
calories per day. For myself, it is equivalent to 30 minutes of
running.

Most people aren't willing to do that.

And most people stay fat.

People have made a calculation, pleasure now is better than the
promiss of health in the future. Living longest is not the main
outcome to optimize for. Food is the main soure of pleasure for most
people. The calculation is rational.

It depends on personal value of now vs. the value of the future.

Actually, Ig, I would say it is more than that. Certainly there is a portion
that simply do not care about what happens in the future (generally the
younger a person is, the more this comes into play). But I think there is a
portion (perhaps a large portion) that is simply overwhelmed with
information. Considering what the media spits out (un-processed, or wrongly
processed information most of the time) I think a great portion of
overweight people simply do not know what to do. In frustration, they resign
themselves to being overweight and try to make the best of it.
To me personally, the difference between a diet and a lifestyle change, is
education. Without it, most are doomed to failure.

--
Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries,
is not 'Eureka!' ('I found it!'), but rather 'hmm....that's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov

Ignoramus760 wrote:
After some thinking, I think that you are right, and I am wrong, on
two counts. One is what you mentioned, that at least some fat persons
do not know what to do.

Ok, give it 1% of fat people don't know what to eat. It's noise.


My mistake was forgetting that benefits of being slim are not just
future benefits, they are also present benefits. Such as feeling good,
looking good, being less sick etc. Dieting is not just about gaining
future benefits at the cost of sacrifice in present.

As people are living in the present and are making constant decisions
about what they value more, this is an illogical conclusion. People vote
their preferences with their actions. We also need to establish the
degree of weight loss.

Obesity is being about 30 pounds overweight. If you move from 90 pounds
to being 30 pounds overweight what are you daily short term benefits
that make weight loss worth it? Then what are the benefits of going from
30 pounds overweight to ideal weight on a daily basis?

And if these short term benefits are so clear then why don't the drive
behaviour more consistantly?

Dr_Dickie wrote:
To me personally, the difference between a diet and a lifestyle change, is
education. Without it, most are doomed to failure.

What education do you think people are missing?

Ignoramus760 wrote:
I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits.

Then what are they?


That's great. I hope you are able to keep it going.


I hope so too, but I am not overly optimistic.

That's the lot of the rational being.

Ignoramus760 wrote:
On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote:

Ignoramus760 wrote:

I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits.

Then what are they?


As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
order) that apply to me:

1. Looking better.

Externally derived validation that is easily dismissed and isn't enough
to drive weight loss over time.

2. Feeling more energetic

True. But at what level of obesity is the curve crossed?

3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily

Indication of not being morbidly obese, but you could still be obese.

4. Not having acid reflux

Don't know about this one.

5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations

Ok.

6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)

Watching TV doesn't take a lot of effort.

7. Sex is much better

After 40, does it matter :-)

8. Better and more stable mood

Don't think this is true.

After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
being slim still feels like a celebration.

I actually don't believe the celebration bit. That sort of estatic
feeling is more a mania and isn't sustainable over time.


So now you have some benefits. Are they compelling enough in the short
term to give up the short term pleasure of food. I don't think so. Your
pessimism indicates that these are nice to haves but they aren't enough
to generate long term motivation.

Ignoramus760 wrote:
I am not a pessimist or optimist, I am a realist. Pessimism and
optimism are both unhelpful.

With all the benefits why is it realistic to be concerned about future
weight gain?

"Ignoramus760" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote:
Ignoramus760 wrote:
I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits.

Then what are they?

As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
order) that apply to me:

1. Looking better.
2. Feeling more energetic
3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily
4. Not having acid reflux
5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations
6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)
7. Sex is much better
8. Better and more stable mood

After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
being slim still feels like a celebration.


I'll add a couple of my own.

1) Feeling "light on my feet".
If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of being
light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup truck,
and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more agile,
more responsive, and faster.

2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80 miles,
with over 8,500 feet of climbing).

3) Feeling stronger
At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my bike
for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I are
going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing those
things would be much more difficult if I was fat.

GG


That's great. I hope you are able to keep it going.


I hope so too, but I am not overly optimistic.

That's the lot of the rational being.

Yep. I do not believe that optimism is a good thing.

--
223/175.9/180

"GaryG" wrote in message
...
"Ignoramus760" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote:
Ignoramus760 wrote:
I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits.

Then what are they?

As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
order) that apply to me:

1. Looking better.
2. Feeling more energetic
3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily
4. Not having acid reflux
5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations
6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)
7. Sex is much better
8. Better and more stable mood

After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
being slim still feels like a celebration.


I'll add a couple of my own.

1) Feeling "light on my feet".
If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of
being
light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup
truck,
and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more agile,
more responsive, and faster.

2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80 miles,
with over 8,500 feet of climbing).

3) Feeling stronger
At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my bike
for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I
are
going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing those
things would be much more difficult if I was fat.

GG


That's great. I hope you are able to keep it going.


I hope so too, but I am not overly optimistic.

That's the lot of the rational being.

Yep. I do not believe that optimism is a good thing.

--
223/175.9/180


cross post left in as it relates to all

How about just the general non-abuse to our poor
knees, feet and backs. Not to mention our hearts.

RK, t1 (just my .03)

Ignoramus760 wrote:
On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:55:54 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote:

Ignoramus760 wrote:

I am not a pessimist or optimist, I am a realist. Pessimism and
optimism are both unhelpful.

With all the benefits why is it realistic to be concerned about
future weight gain?

The statistics are, unfortunately, not encouraging.

Given all the short term benefits that doesn't seem consistent, does it?

"RK" wrote in message
news

"GaryG" wrote in message
...
"Ignoramus760" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender
wrote:
Ignoramus760 wrote:
I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future
benefits.

Then what are they?

As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
order) that apply to me:

1. Looking better.
2. Feeling more energetic
3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily
4. Not having acid reflux
5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations
6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)
7. Sex is much better
8. Better and more stable mood

After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
being slim still feels like a celebration.


I'll add a couple of my own.

1) Feeling "light on my feet".
If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of
being
light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup
truck,
and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more
agile,
more responsive, and faster.

2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80
miles,
with over 8,500 feet of climbing).

3) Feeling stronger
At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my
bike
for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I
are
going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing
those
things would be much more difficult if I was fat.

GG


That's great. I hope you are able to keep it going.


I hope so too, but I am not overly optimistic.

That's the lot of the rational being.

Yep. I do not believe that optimism is a good thing.

--
223/175.9/180


cross post left in as it relates to all

How about just the general non-abuse to our poor
knees, feet and backs. Not to mention our hearts.

RK, t1 (just my .03)

Agreed.

Ironically, however, 10 minutes ago I took 3 ibuprofen to help relieve some
of the muscle soreness in my legs and back (the result of my bike ride
yesterday). But, I'd rather feel sore from overdoing it on occasion, than
have the chronic problems associated with being overweight and sedentary,
for sure.

GG