OT - Opinions about bleach as a cleanser

Carmen wrote:

[...]

::
:: If dioxins worry you that much there are some things you can do to
:: limit your exposure to them. Since they're fat soluble don't eat the
:: fatty animal based foods like butter and eggs or the fat or skin of
:: meats and poultry. Don't eat salmon. Don't drive a car or light
:: your fireplace (no woodburning of any type). To limit the amount of
:: chlorine you release into the environment you can do the following:
:: No Splenda. They use chlorine atoms in Splenda. No salt. Throw out
:: most of your vitamins. Don't use bleached paper products like coffee
:: filters, toilet paper or notebook and copier and printer papers. No
:: PVC stuff. There's more, and if you search you'll get lots of good
:: ideas.

Damn! Sounds like I'd have to move to another planet to avoid them! And
you make them sound like an excuse for following a low fat WOE

Okay, okay...so there's no reason not to use bleach other than I hate the
smell. Suits me!

:: Is there some lady with Greenpeace leanings you're interested in or
:: something?

No, there is a lady who likes to clean the house w/ bleach! I once had a GF
who did that and she reeked of the stuff

Carmen wrote:

[...]

::
:: If dioxins worry you that much there are some things you can do to
:: limit your exposure to them. Since they're fat soluble don't eat the
:: fatty animal based foods like butter and eggs or the fat or skin of
:: meats and poultry. Don't eat salmon. Don't drive a car or light
:: your fireplace (no woodburning of any type). To limit the amount of
:: chlorine you release into the environment you can do the following:
:: No Splenda. They use chlorine atoms in Splenda. No salt. Throw out
:: most of your vitamins. Don't use bleached paper products like coffee
:: filters, toilet paper or notebook and copier and printer papers. No
:: PVC stuff. There's more, and if you search you'll get lots of good
:: ideas.

Damn! Sounds like I'd have to move to another planet to avoid them! And
you make them sound like an excuse for following a low fat WOE

Okay, okay...so there's no reason not to use bleach other than I hate the
smell. Suits me!

:: Is there some lady with Greenpeace leanings you're interested in or
:: something?

No, there is a lady who likes to clean the house w/ bleach! I once had a GF
who did that and she reeked of the stuff

Hi,
On 8-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:

Okay, okay...so there's no reason not to use bleach other than I
hate the smell. Suits me!

eyeroll All you had to do was say, "Bleach smells nasty to me. Are
there other cleaners that work as well and smell better?"
But where's the fun in that? ;-)

:: Is there some lady with Greenpeace leanings you're interested in
or something?

No, there is a lady who likes to clean the house w/ bleach! I once
had a GF who did that and she reeked of the stuff

I like the faint smell of bleach in a house, but as a perfume? Not so
much. G

Take care,
Carmen

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Martin W. Smith wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: Martin W. Smith wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
:::::
:::::: Carmen wrote:
:::::::: Hi,
:::::::: On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::::::::
::::::::: How It Causes Harm:
::::::::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe.
::::::::: They say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water.
::::::::: This is very true, but
::::::::: only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled
::::::::: conditions. Chlorine
::::::::: itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts
::::::::: of chlorine such
::::::::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment.
::::::::
:::::::: You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A
:::::::: "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine
:::::::: is an element. It is already in its simplest naturally
:::::::: occuring form. Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and
:::::::: oxygen or salt elements like sodium.
::::::
:::::: I think what they mean is that if chlorine gets into the
:::::: environment it can act on other materials and the resulting
:::::: chemical reaction may lead to things like organochlorines and
:::::: dioxins.
::::::
:::::::: These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of*
:::::::: substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to
:::::::: occur just because of the presence of chlorine atoms.
::::::
:::::: Well, the issue is that the bleach has to go somewhere in the
:::::: environment, which may result in these byproducts. I never said
:::::: dioxin are in bleach, someone else simply made the comment they
:::::: aren't, which I don't dispute.
:::::
::::: You know they use chlorine in swimming pools quite a lot. It does
::::: cause asthma in children, but I've not heard of any other medical
::::: problems.
:::::
::::: It dries out your hair (well, the whole mix of pool chemicals
::::: does) and your skin, and it makes you smell like chlorine. It
::::: turns your hair green. When the weather is very hot, chloramine
::::: gas can form over the surface of the pool, which will make you
::::: gag.
:::::
::::: If you are worried about bleach, why not use something else?
:::
::: Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to use the
::: suggestions given in the post by Bob.
:::
::: BTW, I'm not hyper-worried about bleach per se, but I have a house
::: full of cleaners that sit there for years. Simple & cheap
::: solutions that work, are less toxic, and environmentally safe seem
::: like a good options to me. Plus, I don't like the smell and the
::: thought of a lot of chemicals.
::
:: Just a suggestion... you can ignore it, of course... but you are
:: beginning to sound like you are developing an anxiety problem.

Yeah, I'll ignore it because it's not true. Remember, this is usenet. You
have no idea of what I really feel or how much concern I have about this
issue.

Of course I have an idea of what you really feel and are concerned
about. I get that idea from the words you write. On the other hand, if
you are saying you are disguising your true feelings by lying in your
writing, that's your problem.

I simply posted for opinions - you're misinterpreting what you see.

I'm not misinterpreting your writing.

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Martin W. Smith wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: Martin W. Smith wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
:::::
:::::: Carmen wrote:
:::::::: Hi,
:::::::: On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::::::::
::::::::: How It Causes Harm:
::::::::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe.
::::::::: They say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water.
::::::::: This is very true, but
::::::::: only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled
::::::::: conditions. Chlorine
::::::::: itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts
::::::::: of chlorine such
::::::::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment.
::::::::
:::::::: You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A
:::::::: "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine
:::::::: is an element. It is already in its simplest naturally
:::::::: occuring form. Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and
:::::::: oxygen or salt elements like sodium.
::::::
:::::: I think what they mean is that if chlorine gets into the
:::::: environment it can act on other materials and the resulting
:::::: chemical reaction may lead to things like organochlorines and
:::::: dioxins.
::::::
:::::::: These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of*
:::::::: substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to
:::::::: occur just because of the presence of chlorine atoms.
::::::
:::::: Well, the issue is that the bleach has to go somewhere in the
:::::: environment, which may result in these byproducts. I never said
:::::: dioxin are in bleach, someone else simply made the comment they
:::::: aren't, which I don't dispute.
:::::
::::: You know they use chlorine in swimming pools quite a lot. It does
::::: cause asthma in children, but I've not heard of any other medical
::::: problems.
:::::
::::: It dries out your hair (well, the whole mix of pool chemicals
::::: does) and your skin, and it makes you smell like chlorine. It
::::: turns your hair green. When the weather is very hot, chloramine
::::: gas can form over the surface of the pool, which will make you
::::: gag.
:::::
::::: If you are worried about bleach, why not use something else?
:::
::: Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to use the
::: suggestions given in the post by Bob.
:::
::: BTW, I'm not hyper-worried about bleach per se, but I have a house
::: full of cleaners that sit there for years. Simple & cheap
::: solutions that work, are less toxic, and environmentally safe seem
::: like a good options to me. Plus, I don't like the smell and the
::: thought of a lot of chemicals.
::
:: Just a suggestion... you can ignore it, of course... but you are
:: beginning to sound like you are developing an anxiety problem.

Yeah, I'll ignore it because it's not true. Remember, this is usenet. You
have no idea of what I really feel or how much concern I have about this
issue.

Of course I have an idea of what you really feel and are concerned
about. I get that idea from the words you write. On the other hand, if
you are saying you are disguising your true feelings by lying in your
writing, that's your problem.

I simply posted for opinions - you're misinterpreting what you see.

I'm not misinterpreting your writing.

"Sam" wrote:

Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

I have never
heard anyone refer to bleach as chlorine.

Besides being called "Chlorine" when used as bleach, Sodium Hypochlorite
(NaClO) is also advertised in my area for pools as "Chlorine" with big blue
and white signs. Perhaps you've heard of that?

It isn't called chlorine. It is called sodium hypochloride, or it is
called bleach. I've never heard it called chlorine, and I've been
around swimming pools for fifty years.

The point being that you will almost never find jugs of Chlorine the
element unless you set out to make it. You -will- find Sodium Hypochlorite.
Sodium Hypochlorite is a salt, and disassociates very quickly into it's
constituent parts.

One of which is chlorine.

I appreciate technical precision as much as the next guy, but that does
not mean I have to pretend ignorance of the colloquialisms of my culture. I
would never go so far as to require others to adhere to my literalist
restrictions.

Then stop.

"Sam" wrote:

Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

I have never
heard anyone refer to bleach as chlorine.

Besides being called "Chlorine" when used as bleach, Sodium Hypochlorite
(NaClO) is also advertised in my area for pools as "Chlorine" with big blue
and white signs. Perhaps you've heard of that?

It isn't called chlorine. It is called sodium hypochloride, or it is
called bleach. I've never heard it called chlorine, and I've been
around swimming pools for fifty years.

The point being that you will almost never find jugs of Chlorine the
element unless you set out to make it. You -will- find Sodium Hypochlorite.
Sodium Hypochlorite is a salt, and disassociates very quickly into it's
constituent parts.

One of which is chlorine.

I appreciate technical precision as much as the next guy, but that does
not mean I have to pretend ignorance of the colloquialisms of my culture. I
would never go so far as to require others to adhere to my literalist
restrictions.

Then stop.

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Martin W. Smith wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: Martin W. Smith wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
:::::
:::::: Martin W. Smith wrote:
:::::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::::::::
::::::::: The paragraph below is where I got that notion:
::::::::: How It Causes Harm:
::::::::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe.
::::::::: They say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water.
::::::::: This is very true, but only in a laboratory test tube under
::::::::: very controlled conditions.
::::::::
:::::::: Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything
:::::::: else.
::::::
:::::: Right....which means that the chlorine itself remains to interact
:::::: with other things. Of course, small amounts may not do
:::::: much....but it all ends up who knows where, with everything else
:::::: we all pour down the drain. I think this is the issue, not that
:::::: there are dioxins in the bleach itself.
:::::
::::: Chlorine is a gas at room temperature or anywhere near it. You
::::: don't need to worry about chlorine except in high enough
::::: concentrations to gag you.
:::
::: So there is no need to worry about it getting into the environment?
::: I know some disgree with the "green" concepts.
::
:: No, not chlorine. It's already in the environment. It has always been
:: there.
::
:: Bleach, on the other hand, is man-made and can be a problem.

Martin - the discussion is about bleach - don't be such a pedant.

You can't use the terms chlorine and bleach interchangeably. They
aren't the same.

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Martin W. Smith wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: Martin W. Smith wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
:::::
:::::: Martin W. Smith wrote:
:::::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::::::::
::::::::: The paragraph below is where I got that notion:
::::::::: How It Causes Harm:
::::::::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe.
::::::::: They say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water.
::::::::: This is very true, but only in a laboratory test tube under
::::::::: very controlled conditions.
::::::::
:::::::: Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything
:::::::: else.
::::::
:::::: Right....which means that the chlorine itself remains to interact
:::::: with other things. Of course, small amounts may not do
:::::: much....but it all ends up who knows where, with everything else
:::::: we all pour down the drain. I think this is the issue, not that
:::::: there are dioxins in the bleach itself.
:::::
::::: Chlorine is a gas at room temperature or anywhere near it. You
::::: don't need to worry about chlorine except in high enough
::::: concentrations to gag you.
:::
::: So there is no need to worry about it getting into the environment?
::: I know some disgree with the "green" concepts.
::
:: No, not chlorine. It's already in the environment. It has always been
:: there.
::
:: Bleach, on the other hand, is man-made and can be a problem.

Martin - the discussion is about bleach - don't be such a pedant.

You can't use the terms chlorine and bleach interchangeably. They
aren't the same.

Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

"Sam" wrote:

Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

I have never
heard anyone refer to bleach as chlorine.

Besides being called "Chlorine" when used as bleach, Sodium
Hypochlorite (NaClO) is also advertised in my area for pools as
"Chlorine" with big blue and white signs. Perhaps you've heard of
that?

It isn't called chlorine. It is called sodium hypochloride, or it is
called bleach. I've never heard it called chlorine, and I've been
around swimming pools for fifty years.

Then you are not listening or seeing. Have fun with it. Good bye.

--
Sam-I-Am
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out of men.
-Abraham Lincoln


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