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#51
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Roger Zoul wrote:
FOB wrote: || Yes, it is safe. It is added to drinking water and swimming pools || routinely. You don't want to breath the vapors too much, good thing || to do is spray some around and leave the room while it does its || stuff, come back and rinse when the fumes have died down. What do || dioxins have to do with bleach, it's just chlorine in water? Byproducts. http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html Looks like bad info. Here's some stuff from the NIH: "How are dioxins formed? Dioxins are chemical contaminants that have no commercial usefulness by themselves. They are formed during combustion processes, such as waste incineration, forest fires and backyard trash burning, and during manufacturing processes such as herbicide manufacture and paper manufacture. e.g. dioxin was a contaminant of the herbicide Agent Orange used as a defoliant by U.S. forces in Vietnam." Says nothing about bleach in the home. It looks like the process of creating dioxins is rather more complex than just using bleach in any of the myriad uses generally considered. "Formed during combustion processes" - that leaves bleach out. "During manufacturing processes" - leaves bleach out. http://www.niehs.nih.gov/oc/factsheets/dioxin.htm Pastorio || || In , || Roger Zoul stated ||| I would like to know what you all think of using common bleach to ||| clean your bathroom and kitchen areas. Do you think it is safe to ||| use around your family? Do you feel it is environmentally safe? ||| What about those dioxins and stuff? It kills mold and stuff, but ||| personally, I hate the smell of the stuff. |
#52
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Roger Zoul wrote:
FOB wrote: || Yes, it is safe. It is added to drinking water and swimming pools || routinely. You don't want to breath the vapors too much, good thing || to do is spray some around and leave the room while it does its || stuff, come back and rinse when the fumes have died down. What do || dioxins have to do with bleach, it's just chlorine in water? Byproducts. http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html Looks like bad info. Here's some stuff from the NIH: "How are dioxins formed? Dioxins are chemical contaminants that have no commercial usefulness by themselves. They are formed during combustion processes, such as waste incineration, forest fires and backyard trash burning, and during manufacturing processes such as herbicide manufacture and paper manufacture. e.g. dioxin was a contaminant of the herbicide Agent Orange used as a defoliant by U.S. forces in Vietnam." Says nothing about bleach in the home. It looks like the process of creating dioxins is rather more complex than just using bleach in any of the myriad uses generally considered. "Formed during combustion processes" - that leaves bleach out. "During manufacturing processes" - leaves bleach out. http://www.niehs.nih.gov/oc/factsheets/dioxin.htm Pastorio || || In , || Roger Zoul stated ||| I would like to know what you all think of using common bleach to ||| clean your bathroom and kitchen areas. Do you think it is safe to ||| use around your family? Do you feel it is environmentally safe? ||| What about those dioxins and stuff? It kills mold and stuff, but ||| personally, I hate the smell of the stuff. |
#53
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Cailleachschilde wrote:
|| Personally I like the smell. It lets me know something is clean. Roger Zoul wrote: All it tells me is there was bleach used somewhere. Where bleach is used, the surface is clean. I can't stand those phony flowery cleansers. They reek to me. Yvonne |
#54
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Cailleachschilde wrote:
|| Personally I like the smell. It lets me know something is clean. Roger Zoul wrote: All it tells me is there was bleach used somewhere. Where bleach is used, the surface is clean. I can't stand those phony flowery cleansers. They reek to me. Yvonne |
#55
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Hi,
On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote: How It Causes Harm: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true, but only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions. Chlorine itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of chlorine such as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine is an element. It is already in its simplest naturally occuring form. Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and oxygen or salt elements like sodium. These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of* substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to occur just because of the presence of chlorine atoms. Take care, Carmen |
#56
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"Roger Zoul" wrote:
The paragraph below is where I got that notion: How It Causes Harm: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true, but only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions. Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else. Chlorine itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of chlorine such as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. These byproducts do not break down easily and readily, therefore they bioaccumilate. This makes the water very toxic and carcinogenic. This contaminated water is then discarded into streams and waterways and then come in contact with other organic materials where in some cases can build up and form an extremely toxic chemical. These high potent chemicals have been linked to a numerous amount of human health problems. Such include birth defects, cancer, reproductive disorders and immune system breakdowns. Bleach is a very harmful chemical which can have long term effects on the environment and the people and animals in and around them. " Which I got from he http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html |
#57
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"Roger Zoul" wrote:
The paragraph below is where I got that notion: How It Causes Harm: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true, but only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions. Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else. Chlorine itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of chlorine such as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. These byproducts do not break down easily and readily, therefore they bioaccumilate. This makes the water very toxic and carcinogenic. This contaminated water is then discarded into streams and waterways and then come in contact with other organic materials where in some cases can build up and form an extremely toxic chemical. These high potent chemicals have been linked to a numerous amount of human health problems. Such include birth defects, cancer, reproductive disorders and immune system breakdowns. Bleach is a very harmful chemical which can have long term effects on the environment and the people and animals in and around them. " Which I got from he http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html |
#58
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Hi,
That's kind of the extent of my germ warfare. I agree with the other poster when it comes to to much germ warfare can be a bad thing. Snip That's true. For most people normal soap and water, with antimocrobial agents when working with raw meats, is just fine. In the case of our family it's a necessity though. My DH just finished up 6 rounds of chemo last Monday and that plays holy hell with the immune system. Right now he's back in the hospital. He spiked a fever Sunday and got admitted with neutropenic fever (white cell count was 400. Low end of normal is 5000.) Then chest pain cropped up. Pneumonia this time. Bleh. Until his immune system recovers we're going to have to be psychotic germ-o-phobes ------note the scientific terminology. G You're a special needs household. That comes with a whole different set of rules, doesn't it. My best to your husband, Carmen. I have a friend who recently completed her 3rd bout in chemo ring. When bad things happen to good people... Howard will be alright. It's hard for someone who isn't used to being sick to have to live a restricted lifestyle, but if you take into account the nature of the chemo they gave him (adriamycin and ifosfamide), the doses they used (adriamycin has a lifetime max dose because it damages the heart and he got the max) and the amputation surgery too he's been remarkably healthy. This is only the second time in the whole chemo routine that he's been hospitalized due to an illness. He went in for the chemo itself (the doses were too high to be done outpatient), blood transfusions a few times and platelets once. Another remarkable thing was that the chemo schedule only got delayed once, due to the first illness and even then only for a week. I expected a lot more delays and illnesses going into this, but we've really been fortunate. I do hope your friend's chemo is as kind to her. Cancer doesn't care who it hits. As a professor of mine put it, "Cancer is cells that have lost all their manners." (Imagine this being said by Christopher Lowell in a Georgia accent. That's what Dr. B sounds like.) Best wishes for your friend. (BTW, gentle lotions make an excellent little gift for someone during chemo. The skin tends to really suffer. Just make sure it isn't heavily scented. Smells tend to get weird.) Take care, Carmen |
#59
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Hi,
That's kind of the extent of my germ warfare. I agree with the other poster when it comes to to much germ warfare can be a bad thing. Snip That's true. For most people normal soap and water, with antimocrobial agents when working with raw meats, is just fine. In the case of our family it's a necessity though. My DH just finished up 6 rounds of chemo last Monday and that plays holy hell with the immune system. Right now he's back in the hospital. He spiked a fever Sunday and got admitted with neutropenic fever (white cell count was 400. Low end of normal is 5000.) Then chest pain cropped up. Pneumonia this time. Bleh. Until his immune system recovers we're going to have to be psychotic germ-o-phobes ------note the scientific terminology. G You're a special needs household. That comes with a whole different set of rules, doesn't it. My best to your husband, Carmen. I have a friend who recently completed her 3rd bout in chemo ring. When bad things happen to good people... Howard will be alright. It's hard for someone who isn't used to being sick to have to live a restricted lifestyle, but if you take into account the nature of the chemo they gave him (adriamycin and ifosfamide), the doses they used (adriamycin has a lifetime max dose because it damages the heart and he got the max) and the amputation surgery too he's been remarkably healthy. This is only the second time in the whole chemo routine that he's been hospitalized due to an illness. He went in for the chemo itself (the doses were too high to be done outpatient), blood transfusions a few times and platelets once. Another remarkable thing was that the chemo schedule only got delayed once, due to the first illness and even then only for a week. I expected a lot more delays and illnesses going into this, but we've really been fortunate. I do hope your friend's chemo is as kind to her. Cancer doesn't care who it hits. As a professor of mine put it, "Cancer is cells that have lost all their manners." (Imagine this being said by Christopher Lowell in a Georgia accent. That's what Dr. B sounds like.) Best wishes for your friend. (BTW, gentle lotions make an excellent little gift for someone during chemo. The skin tends to really suffer. Just make sure it isn't heavily scented. Smells tend to get weird.) Take care, Carmen |
#60
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Carmen wrote:
:: Hi, :: On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote: :: ::: How It Causes Harm: ::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say ::: that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true, ::: but ::: only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions. ::: Chlorine ::: itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of ::: chlorine such ::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. :: :: You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A :: "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine is an :: element. It is already in its simplest naturally occuring form. :: Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and oxygen or salt elements :: like sodium. I think what they mean is that if chlorine gets into the environment it can act on other materials and the resulting chemical reaction may lead to things like organochlorines and dioxins. :: These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of* :: substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to occur :: just because of the presence of chlorine atoms. Well, the issue is that the bleach has to go somewhere in the environment, which may result in these byproducts. I never said dioxin are in bleach, someone else simply made the comment they aren't, which I don't dispute. |
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