Zero points food

"Anny Middon" wrote in message
y.com...
Go to www.weigh****chers.com, and you'll see prominently displayed
"Meetings
are our best way to lose weight." WW is not a diet, it's a program -- and
part of the program is the meetings. As I've said before I don't go to
meetings, but I'm very aware that I'm not truly following the WW program
even if I am scrupulous about the rest of it.

I don't understand Anny. I am NOT NOT NOT trying to follow WW!!!!! I am
trying to use their points system but I am NOT trying to follow WW at all!
How else can I put it so you'll understand?

But you're also not really following the point system. You've admitted
that
you don't know how many points omeone at your weight is supposed to eat,
and
it's pretty certain that the number you've targetted for yourself is
probably not the number the WW system dictates. You also don't seem to be
following the two dairy servings, five vegetable/fruit servings per day
part
of the program either.

What you're left with is basically a calorie counting program, using WW
points as a proxy for calories. There's nothing wrong with that, but you
can't really call it Weight Watchers.

Why have you got it in for me? Are you trying to make me fail or something?
You seem to be nit-picking everything I write.

I am satisfied with the amount of food I'm eating, and have been since my
first day on the program about six weeks ago.

Well I am happy for you.

Like you, I have a
significant amount of weight to lose. From time to time I get a bout of
the
"hungries" but then I either eat some zero-point veggies (a handful of raw
baby carrots usually) or use some of my FlexPoints for some microwave
popcorn (the 94% fat-free variety).

Well think yourself very lucky that you have the option to eat veggies to
stop yourself feeling hungry, and have some sympathy for me, rather than
attacking me simply because you don't like that I am using the points
system.

This is what I don't understand, Geoff -- there are a lot of diet programs
out there, many of which work. Why is the Weight Watchers point system
any
different to you than counting calories? Go to alt.support.diet and
you'll
find a lot of people who are losing weight by counting calories.

It isn't just about calories, as you know. It is a formula that takes fat
into account too. Also my Mother is doing it and it's given me the idea and
it seems to be working, so what is your problem? Why are you so against me
doing it?

A professional dietician will go over lists of foods with you and
determine
which ones you like, which you're not crazy about but will eat, and which
ones you despise. Based on your current weight and activity level, the
dietician will devise a program customized to your needs and preferences
and
designed to provide you with a diet that meets your nutritional needs.
Often times these are composed of lists of foods that fit certain criteria
and your program will allow you to pick two from group A, one from group B
and two from Group C for instance for a meal.

I just don't need that. It won't work. I am too fussy. Please just try to
accept that I know how I am and how I feel. If you cannot agree then it's
best not to post in this thread please because you are not helping.

A professional dietician will not be condescending or patronising -- he or
she makes a living counselling people like us.

Like you. I am obviously different.

What do you find so complicated about the Weight Watchers point system?
The
truth is that losing weight is both simple (eat fewer calories than you
expend) and very difficult to do.

It is not complicated at all??????????

If you don't want to go to a dietician, then I highly recommend you use
Fitday to track your eating and activity levels. I use the downloadable
version, for which I paid $20 US, but most use the online (www.fitday.com)
version. I assume they're pretty much the same.

Why the heck can't I use the points system? What is the difference between
that and another way to count calories/fat intake?

As I said before, losing weight is not at all easy -- in fact, it's
difficult enough that most overweight people never manage to do it. But
it
is simple.

I am an expert at trying to lose weight. It is very patronising of you to
say that it isn't easy. Of course it isn't, I know all that.

If you don't want to help me Anny (and I assure you that you are NOT helping
me), please do not write to me because I just cannot see why you are. I
haven't even read a lot of what you posted this time because I was getting
annoyed with it and I didn't see the point in reading it. You seem angry at
me for daring to use the points system! Why can't I? What is the problem? It
IS IS IS working for me!!!! IT IS IS IS IS WORKING!!!!!! Isn't that enough
evidence that it works?

Geoff.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
A very good post with good basic info on how different programs would
achieve weightloss results while providing a balanced nutrientional
diet (daily food intake)


Maybe, but not helpful to me and should have been in a new thread. She just
seems to be against me for some reason.

Geoff.

I don't mean to stick me beak in here... well actually I do.. It's just that
Geoff has made it clear that he's not on the weight watcher's program - He's
using their point system as a means of controlling calories and exercise --
And it really is a great simple and convenient system. And he says maybe in
the future he'll try vegetables and extend that side of his eating. He's
taken this points system and created his own diet / losing weight program --
and that's great. It's a lot easier than counting calories all the time - it
gives a little more freedom, and is working for him right now.

It seems as though you're shunning him because he isn't properly in the
weight watchers club. We should all be supportive, after all we all know how
hard this is.

Su




"Anny Middon" wrote in message
y.com...
"Geoff" wrote in message
...
"Anny Middon" wrote in message
y.com...
I've given some thought to this, Geoff, and I now believe that perhaps
Weight Watchers isn't the right diet for you. It's the right plan for
those
of us here, but I firmly beleive there is no plan that's right for
everyone.
And there are three strikes against it for you:

1. You don't want to go to meetings.

What have meetings got to do with the points method though? I'm not with
WW,
I'm using their points method because having a target to work towards is
a
good idea.

Go to www.weigh****chers.com, and you'll see prominently displayed
"Meetings
are our best way to lose weight." WW is not a diet, it's a program -- and
part of the program is the meetings. As I've said before I don't go to
meetings, but I'm very aware that I'm not truly following the WW program
even if I am scrupulous about the rest of it.

But you're also not really following the point system. You've admitted
that
you don't know how many points omeone at your weight is supposed to eat,
and
it's pretty certain that the number you've targetted for yourself is
probably not the number the WW system dictates. You also don't seem to be
following the two dairy servings, five vegetable/fruit servings per day
part
of the program either.

What you're left with is basically a calorie counting program, using WW
points as a proxy for calories. There's nothing wrong with that, but you
can't really call it Weight Watchers.

2. You're not satisfied with the amount of food you can eat for your
point
target.

Of course I'm not satisfied-Who is? If I was satisfied with the amount
of
food, I wouldn't be fat in the first place.

I am satisfied with the amount of food I'm eating, and have been since my
first day on the program about six weeks ago. Like you, I have a
significant amount of weight to lose. From time to time I get a bout of
the
"hungries" but then I either eat some zero-point veggies (a handful of raw
baby carrots usually) or use some of my FlexPoints for some microwave
popcorn (the 94% fat-free variety).

3. You're unwilling or unable to eat nearly all vegetables and
fruits.

I can and do eat some fruits but I do not like vegetables and I can't
help
that.

Anny, I'm doing the best I can and this is the only way I've found that
gives me any hope at all. Then I read someone tell me that it isn't the
right diet for me and it makes me feel like crying, it really does. I've
just come back from my daily walk which leaves me in one hell of a state
that most people here will never comprehend, and I read a post telling
me
that I'm not doing the right thing. I am in a real state with my weight
and
finally had the guts to try something that's really hard for me, and I
AM
managing, so why are people trying to put me off? You'll probably say
that
you aren't trying to put me off, but it really does come across that
way.

This is what I don't understand, Geoff -- there are a lot of diet programs
out there, many of which work. Why is the Weight Watchers point system
any
different to you than counting calories? Go to alt.support.diet and
you'll
find a lot of people who are losing weight by counting calories.


This one is a double-whammy since it means that you can't make your
food
intake more satisfying by eating zero-point veggies, and you can't
regularly
meet the goal of 5 servings of fruit and vegetables per day.

I didn't know there was such a goal to be honest. I can't do anything
about
that anyway.

As an aside I'll ask: Have you considered doing Atkins or another
low-carb
approach?

I've heard too many bad things about that. It's also too restrictive.

My main advice to you though is this: You've said that you're willing
to
spend some money if necessary. In that case, I think you should
consult
with a professional dietician to get a diet plan that's right for you.

What would a dietition tell me to do? He/she would list a load of things
to
eat, which would include 90% of things that I do not like. I don't want
or
need to be patronised by a dietition telling me I need to lose weight,
to
eat vegetables, to get exercise. I am very well aware of all that and
I'm
just doing my best with these points.

A professional dietician will go over lists of foods with you and
determine
which ones you like, which you're not crazy about but will eat, and which
ones you despise. Based on your current weight and activity level, the
dietician will devise a program customized to your needs and preferences
and
designed to provide you with a diet that meets your nutritional needs.
Often times these are composed of lists of foods that fit certain criteria
and your program will allow you to pick two from group A, one from group B
and two from Group C for instance for a meal.

You will probably be required to write down everything you eat, a step
that
Weight Watchers highly recommends and most successful dieters do anyway,
at
least in the first several months. The dietician will go over your food
journal and identify any nutritional inadequacies and make adjustments to
your program as needed. From time to time, the dietician will review your
program and reduce the number of servings in certain food groups to assure
that you continue to lose weight slowly and steadily, the healthy way to
lose.

A professional dietician will not be condescending or patronising -- he or
she makes a living counselling people like us.

Periodic revisits with the dietician will help you keep on track and
allow
for adjustment to your diet as needed.

You make it sound so simple.

What do you find so complicated about the Weight Watchers point system?
The
truth is that losing weight is both simple (eat fewer calories than you
expend) and very difficult to do.

If you don't want to go to a dietician, then I highly recommend you use
Fitday to track your eating and activity levels. I use the downloadable
version, for which I paid $20 US, but most use the online (www.fitday.com)
version. I assume they're pretty much the same.

Input your current weight. And if your scale doesn't go that high, buy
another scale -- no, you don't need an expensive one that weighs larger
amounts, just an additional scale. Put a board across the two scales and
get the weight of the board by adding the amount shown on both scales.
Now
step on the board and get the weight shown on each scale. Add the two
weights, subtract the weight of the board and bingo! you have your current
weight within a pound or two. (I got this trick from alt.support.diet,
where it recently came up.)

Input your current activity level. If it's like mine, it's pretty
sedentary. Fitday will tell you how many calories you're eating per day
to
maintain your current weight. Now subtract 500 or 1000 from that number
to
get a target calorie level -- this will allow you to lose a safe 1 to 2
pounds per week. (Weight Watchers does this with points, but it's really
the
same thing.)

Use Fitday's nutritional analysis to see how you're doing in terms of
eating
enough vitamins and minerals. Tweak your diet as appropriate to assure
you're eating healthily. (This is what that dietician would do for you.
It's also what Weight Watchers does with the five veggies/fruits per day
and
two or three dairy servings -- I find if I've had my three or four veggies
and a fruit or two and a couple of dairy servings, Fitday tells me I've
met
the US RDA for nutrients.)

Weigh yourself weekly and use Fitday to track your progress. Adjust your
calorie target as appropriate based on your declining weight. (Weight
Watchers does this with adjustments to your target points. That dietician
would do it with periodic progress meetings and adjustments to your diet.)

Set yourself some goals. Start with a small one -- maybe to lose 5 kilos.
Add a very popular longer-term goal -- to lose 10% of your current weight.
Set rewards for yourself when you make your goals -- nonfood, of course,
like buying a CD you've wanted for losing 5 kilos, and some new clothes
(which you'll need) when you've lost 10%.

As I said before, losing weight is not at all easy -- in fact, it's
difficult enough that most overweight people never manage to do it. But
it
is simple.

Anny

Hi Geoff,

I'm definitely not saying you can't carry on without veggies! I am
saying that you'll find it easier if you can find some veggies you can
tolerate. Maybe even, in time, like.

Believe me, when I first started out I had very little in the way of
veggies in my daily meal plan. I'm more of a carbs person. It is
possible to do it WW with a minimum of veggies. It's just more
difficult. As you've already discovered most of the zero or low point
foods are veggies.

A medium baked potato is about 2 points, spray some "I can't believe
it's not butter" on it makes a pretty good side dish or snack. What
about the light jello? No points in that. Pickles are zero points as
well.

What spreadsheet program are you using? If you want to email me I can
send you a copy of the food listings that I have - there are just over
1800 different foods and then I've put in a separate page listing
anything I could find that was 3 points or less. Now some of those
things are sauces, but you still might find it useful.

Please don't be discouraged. WW most definitely can be followed without
overdosing on the veggies. It's just easier if it's possible to find
some that you like (or can tolerate) that can help to fill the gaps.

Amberle3
Geoff wrote:

"Amberle3" wrote in message
...
First of all, Hi and welcome to the group!

I see that Laura has already touched on what I was going to suggest.
From my experience it is impossible to think of this program as a "diet"
and maintain the weight loss. It just won't work. Common mentality is
that a "diet" is something you go on for a while to lose weight, and
then quit once you've lost. That's not that WW is.
snip

Thanks for writing Amberle3. I don't really know how to reply. All I can
think of to say is that the more I read, the more I'm put off. Is it really
not possible for me to carry on without eating veggies? That seems to be
what you're saying. I don't like veggies or salad or most other 'good'
things. If I can't bring myself to eat them, even though I'm losing weight
and have stuck to this for 3 weeks so far, am I doomed? Should I just give
up now rather than suffering for however long it is? I don't know what to do
but I honestly feel very much like giving up.

Geoff.

--
Amberle3
249/219/210-minigoal/150?
Renewed my commitment to me 3/30/03

- Spring Into Action Exercise Challenge:
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/sia.htm
- Shake it Up Baby Exercise Challange:
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/sub.htm
- Weight No More Weight Loss Challenge:
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/wnm.htm
- Weight Loss Challenge Summary:
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/summary.htm

Well said, Su. I agree!

--
Wendy
http://griffinsflight.com/Quilting/quilt1.htm
De-Fang email address to reply
"Su" wrote in message
...
I don't mean to stick me beak in here... well actually I do.. It's just
that
Geoff has made it clear that he's not on the weight watcher's program -
He's
using their point system as a means of controlling calories and
exercise --
And it really is a great simple and convenient system. And he says maybe
in
the future he'll try vegetables and extend that side of his eating. He's
taken this points system and created his own diet / losing weight
program --
and that's great. It's a lot easier than counting calories all the time -
it
gives a little more freedom, and is working for him right now.

It seems as though you're shunning him because he isn't properly in the
weight watchers club. We should all be supportive, after all we all know
how
hard this is.

Su

"Su" wrote in message
...
I don't mean to stick me beak in here... well actually I do.. It's just
that
Geoff has made it clear that he's not on the weight watcher's program -
He's
using their point system as a means of controlling calories and
exercise --
And it really is a great simple and convenient system. And he says maybe
in
the future he'll try vegetables and extend that side of his eating. He's
taken this points system and created his own diet / losing weight
program --
and that's great. It's a lot easier than counting calories all the time -
it
gives a little more freedom, and is working for him right now.

It seems as though you're shunning him because he isn't properly in the
weight watchers club. We should all be supportive, after all we all know
how
hard this is.

Su


Thank you Su, that was very kind of you and I couldn't have put it better
myself.

Thanks.

Geoff.

"frood" wrote in message
m...
Well said, Su. I agree!

Thanks for your support.

Geoff.

Hi

Krys - they're sold by most of the UK big 3, just well hidden! There are a
couple of brands though - I like the Calypso ones (usually to be found in 3
flavours - strawberry, orange and blackberry but they also have a rarer,
tropical flavour) as well as the sun lollies (usually I can only find cola
or strawberry, but they also have blackberry, orange and the most addictive,
wonderful grape flavour).

In Tesco's they're usually either above the freezer cabinets (in unfrozen
form!), or on one of the aisle ends. Sainsbury's and Safeways usually have
them hidden on one of the bottom shelves.

I think I probably eat 2 a day at least, and have been known to eat 8 or
more at a sitting. They're only 62ml (or 65ml for the sun lolly), or so I
keep telling myself.

www.sunlolly.co.uk and www.calypso.co.uk for sad nerdy facts - and if you
can't find any, calypso have a UK online delivery service - £1.29 for 10.

:-)

Wow, I'm sad.

Shaun

"krys" wrote in message
...

Also sugar free jelly isn't *that* bad, but my stock snack is
mullerlight yoghurts at 1.5 points each and Strawberry Sun Lollies at
0.5 points a pop. (UK points btw to any americans reading!).

Good luck

Shaun


OK -where do I find these Sun Lollies? Cos that sounds good to me!

--
krys

UK 157/128.4/126
Started March 1st 2001
GOAL August 16th 2001
...going down?...

"Shaun Conn" wrote in message
...
Hi

Krys - they're sold by most of the UK big 3, just well hidden! There are
a
couple of brands though - I like the Calypso ones (usually to be found in
3
flavours - strawberry, orange and blackberry but they also have a rarer,
tropical flavour) as well as the sun lollies (usually I can only find cola
or strawberry, but they also have blackberry, orange and the most
addictive,
wonderful grape flavour).

In Tesco's they're usually either above the freezer cabinets (in unfrozen
form!), or on one of the aisle ends. Sainsbury's and Safeways usually
have
them hidden on one of the bottom shelves.

I think I probably eat 2 a day at least, and have been known to eat 8 or
more at a sitting. They're only 62ml (or 65ml for the sun lolly), or so I
keep telling myself.

www.sunlolly.co.uk and www.calypso.co.uk for sad nerdy facts - and if you
can't find any, calypso have a UK online delivery service - £1.29 for 10.


Oh I find the Sun Lollies totally different from the other types. The ice
crunches up a lot finer and they are nicer.

Geoff.

Geoff wrote:

"Amberle3" wrote in message
...

First of all, Hi and welcome to the group!

I see that Laura has already touched on what I was going to suggest.
From my experience it is impossible to think of this program as a "diet"
and maintain the weight loss. It just won't work. Common mentality is
that a "diet" is something you go on for a while to lose weight, and
then quit once you've lost. That's not that WW is.

snip

Thanks for writing Amberle3. I don't really know how to reply. All I can
think of to say is that the more I read, the more I'm put off. Is it really
not possible for me to carry on without eating veggies? That seems to be
what you're saying. I don't like veggies or salad or most other 'good'
things. If I can't bring myself to eat them, even though I'm losing weight
and have stuck to this for 3 weeks so far, am I doomed? Should I just give
up now rather than suffering for however long it is? I don't know what to do
but I honestly feel very much like giving up.

Geoff.



It's perfectly possible to lose weight without ever touching or smelling
a vegetable, BUT you will be a LOT less healthy as you will miss out on
lots of things that are good for you.

You need a variety of cooked and raw vegetables to give you vitamines
and minerals not easily available in other ways. Multi-vitamine tablets
may help, but many of the vitamines they contain have drawbacks... It's
easy to overdose on tablet vitamines, and overdoses of some gan be very
harmful. Many are less esily absorbed and used by the body than those
in their natural state, and occasionally you get one you can't
metabolise at all (like me and calcium: I have to have my calcium in
it's natural form in food or the local water, as the stuff in tablets
just floats around in my blood, amking me ill!). It's very hard to eat
so much of a vegetable that the vitamines in it do you any harm - unless
you have some other medical problem, and need to avoild bananas for
their potasium content, for example.

Fruit and vegetables provide most of the dietry fibre required for
healthy bowels. If you are getting this from other sources, that's good,
but variety never harmed anyone, and sometimes fresh vegetables fibres
are less harsh than bran in things like wholemeal bread and Ryveta.

Take things slowly, try them as you feel able. If every vegetable you
buy this week goes in the bin when it goes off, try to ensure it does so
with a bite out of it!

--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!