The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet

Has anyone seen this ?

The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0.html?cnn=yes

He suggests reducing fat because it has more calories per gram. He
apparently has no notion of the appetite suppression of fats.

Susan Powter was wrong.

"Steven Saline" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone seen this ?

The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on

"Steven Saline" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone seen this ?

The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0746,00.html?c
nn=yes

Thanks for posting that. Isn't it nice to see a constructive attempt to
reach some sensible middle ground, especially from Ornish who I always
thought rabidly anti-fat. Good for him!

This article includes some amoutn of regurgitation of the old-school
conventional wisdom, with strong overtones of an exaggerated belief
in the badness of fat.

People need to get past this fixation on fat as the cause of blood vessel
disease. In truth, fats are more like innocent victims that get involved
against their will. The real villain in atherogenesis (arterial plaque
formation)
is glucose (as well as anything that induces glycosylation reactions which
actually do the damage). Reduction in average blood glucose over a lifetime
will have a much greater impact on rates of atherosclerosis than changes in
fat intake (especially if fat calories consumed do not exceed fat calories
used for energy). And this control of blood sugar is precisely what low-carb
diets achieve, in addition to weight loss and beneficial effects on blood
fats.

Doubters can do a search of the literature on aging and atherogenenis and
find heaps of evidence in support of this. I think most everyone is aware of
the heightened risk and rate of atherosclerosis in diabetics, but in fact
their
exaggerated risk is simply a result of chronically high blood glucose.
However,
the same aging processes affect the rest of us too, just at different rates
depending
on our genetics, the amount of excess glucose in our blood, and the amount
of
substances or conditions which influence reactivity of glucose.

So I claim one should deal with the sugar problem first, and then worry
about
which and how much fat you eat as a secondary matter. It may turn out that
with sufficient control of blood sugar and a diet without an excess of
calories,
that it does not matter which fats or what proportion of them you eat. If
this
aging process goes from taking 50 years to kill you to 100, it is no longer
something to concern yourself with. Besides, there are lots of other aging
effects which also involve glycosylation (e.g. stiffening of connective
tissue,
formation of Alzheimers plaques), and you can slow these affects too by
eating more fat and less sugar.

In short, worry about sugar first, weight control second, and if you do that
much and still have some choice about which and how much fat to eat,
then go ahead make your choices in that area. But no one should be scared
away from a low carb diet because of the old "evils of fat" theory.

One good introductory book that covers relevant topics is "Why We Age"
by Austad. A simple search on Pubmed oo Yahoo of "atherogenesis" will
also turn up lots of related material.

Alan (at my ideal weight, and a low carber for life)

"Steven Saline" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone seen this ?

The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0.html?cnn=yes

"Anthony"

writes:

"Steven Saline" wrote in message
om...
Has anyone seen this ?

The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0746,00.html?c
nn=yes

Thanks for posting that. Isn't it nice to see a constructive attempt to
reach some sensible middle ground, especially from Ornish who I always
thought rabidly anti-fat. Good for him!

I've met him. He's intense, but I found him likable, and he has a sense of
humor. In that regard, it's really too bad his diet is so hard to follow.
That's probably why he's trying to associate it with the easier diets. He may
actually have the best diet in the world (I don't believe that, but it's
possible), yet if no one will stick to it, the diet is worthless.

Daria
166/under 145/under 145
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

(Steven Saline) wrote in message om...
Has anyone seen this ?

The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0.html?cnn=yes

Sounds like pretty much the same old crap Ornish has been spouting
for years. It's definitely not something "everyone" can agree on.

In article ,
says...
Has anyone seen this ?

The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0.html?cnn=yes

From the article:
10. EAT LESS RED MEAT. Dr. Atkins may have disagreed, but it's loaded
with artery-clogging saturated fat and has been linked to an increased
risk of cancer.

If that were ammended to say EAT LESS AGRIBUSINESS PRODUCED RED MEAT it
would be better.
Grass fed red meats tend to have a signifigantly different saturated fat
and omega6/omega3 ratio than grain fed red meats.
Goolgle rocks.
--

370/295/270
Meatatarian: One who consumes primarily flesh and supplements with some
leafy or cruciferous vegetation.
Graino/Nuto Meatatarian: One who consumes primarily flesh foods and
follows the strictures of the standard meatatarian but relaxes the
strictures a bit to include occasional supplements of whole grain/nut
products.
Meatan: One who consumes flesh food products exclusively.

Email: Actually my feet are big not medium.

against their will. The real villain in atherogenesis (arterial
plaque
formation)
is glucose (as well as anything that induces glycosylation reactions
which

It is rather hyperinsulemnia than glucose itself - but of course, it is
related.

Mirek

"Mirek Fidler" wrote in message
...
against their will. The real villain in atherogenesis (arterial
plaque
formation)
is glucose (as well as anything that induces glycosylation reactions
which

It is rather hyperinsulemnia than glucose itself - but of course, it is
related.

Mirek


I haven't seen any papers that suggested this. All that I have seen
is that glycation products form spontaneously and continuously, and
glucose concentration seems to be the main thing that matters (though
many other factors are claimed to exert influence).

Pointers would be appreciated.

Alan

"Alan Wright" wrote in message
...

"Mirek Fidler" wrote in message
...
against their will. The real villain in atherogenesis (arterial
plaque
formation)
is glucose (as well as anything that induces glycosylation reactions
which

It is rather hyperinsulemnia than glucose itself - but of course, it is
related.

Mirek


I haven't seen any papers that suggested this. All that I have seen
is that glycation products form spontaneously and continuously, and
glucose concentration seems to be the main thing that matters (though
many other factors are claimed to exert influence).

Pointers would be appreciated.

Alan

I was able to find this one in support of your position:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11220289

While there is certainly a correlation between atherosclerosis
and insulin resistance, there is a lot to explain about why those
without IRS still exhibit higher rates of atherogenesis well
correlated with average blood glucose levels, as measured
typically by hemoglobin A1c levels. I'll keep my eye on
this topic, but one sees a constant stream of papers on the
"one true cause" of atherosclerosis, so one has to take all
of this with a grain of salt.

Alan