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#11
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Fat people
On Apr 21, 4:11 pm, Ragnar wrote:
On Apr 21, 1:46 pm, Daedalus wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar wrote: On Apr 21, 12:04 pm, Daedalus wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar wrote: On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote this stuff here : Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price wrote this stuff here : Naughty Boy wrote: Tiger_Lily wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com: Naughty Boy wrote: WaCoder wrote in : Pete wrote: Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you... What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese, i mean... Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid. This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat" with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away with it. For shame.... Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race they were born. Fat people do it to themselves. Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you for the straight dope? How else do fat people get fat? Certainly not by being lazy or stupid. What theories do you have? let's hear them! untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add thyroid meds to diabetes meds is that good enough for you? kate The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take for that one to come up. What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? I can't imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public. For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do not exercise. i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30 years ago ok, back to you on your high horse kate I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders, although more than half remain undiagnosed." This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual number of people affected. According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to 3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry, there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million people would be hypothyroid. The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million people. http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would believe. Ragnar Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of any information on obesity given by the medical community at large, would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they can uncover. Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never spoke in absolutes. You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility. Hy-Po-Crite. You missed the entire point asswipe; I only presented some an article that may have shed some light on what a poster was questioning. The “always learning” stated something to the effect that thyroid disorders only affect 1 in a million people. I present some numbers that contradicted his or her ludicrous claims. I never presented them as completely undeniably factual. Do you have supportable numbers to the contrary, I’d love to see them? Besides dumbass show me where I ever pitched a fit over cancer rates and a supposed correlation to obesity. People post inflammatory articles that at times even contradict each other and you rarely see me making statement as you claim I do. You obviously are still fishing for an argument. Is your life that lacking for entertainment? You pathetic piece of ****. What’s the matter you ugly slob? Still can’t get laid on the weekends? Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting tiresome. Hypocrite Idiot My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid issues and obesity. I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly where this discussion was headed however. Okay, now Jade can read minds. Got anymore tricks for us dumbass? HEY EVERYBODY JADES SHOWING OFF HER POWERS OF CLAIRVOYANCE! COME SEE THE SHOW! What’s next, communication with the dead? You really are a presumptuous ass. If you go back and read I only suggested that the number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in fact hard data. But it is a viable possiblity in your mind, because this one fits your agenda. Viable in your opinion or not, it is a possibility just like it might not be. I can’t say for certain, nor can you. But you do seem to think that the numbers are bogus so why don’t you set me straight and produce some more accurate numbers that are verifiable. In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. Not only that. They go on to ridiculously state that the numbers could only be real if they changed the definition of what a thyroid disorder was. The article suggests lowering the upper limit of the TSH test from . 05 to 5 down to .03 to 3 as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry. But it doesn’t give a reason why. So commenting on that is irrelevant. You have no clue regarding the reasoning behind the testing threshold so you are not qualified to dispute it. I clearly understood this when I wrote my post which you did not get at all. More of Jade’s circle jerk bull**** noted. You clearly recognized nothing of the sort in your pitiful attempt at an argument. I any event doctors will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating the numbers. Are you serious? Yes very, a miss or false diagnosis of thyroid disease can lead to serious health complications or even death. No competent doctor would take that kind of chance, so providing inflated study numbers translates to nothing in the real world. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they don’t have? Of course they are. It happens all the time. That's how the ADD industry came to be a booming business. It makes it much easier when they change the definition of thyroid problems. ADHD and thyroid are very different issues. Diagnosing thyroid disease requires lab blood analysis and as I stated before a misdiagnosis of a thyroid issue can lead to serious health consequences VERY rapidly. In other words provide a bad diagnosis and prescribe the wrong meds and the patient can die. While ADHD only requires sociological profiling of the suspected individual and the meds prescribed do not carry the same health risks. Prescribing the wrong meds for a thyroid issue can be just as deadly as prescribing the wrong heart medication for a person that doesn’t need it. Maybe you should brush up on thyroid disease and the meds provided for such diseases before you make anymore ludicrous statement and embarrass your self further. You are a certifiable idiot. You obviously know nothing about hypo or hyperthyroidism and what constitutes the disease. You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that isn’t there. Actually, that's what you were setting up to do. I'm calling you on it. Yeah okay you are privy to what’s in my head. LOL. If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive more funding for research then so be it. And if inflated numbers help you argue with people on usenet, then who cares if it is real data or a guess? You still haven't proven that the numbers are inflated and I wasn’t arguing That point seems to escape you constantly. You got something against healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular affiction. It is exactly like that, dummy. Guess where much of the R&D money comes from? And guess who benefits from the R&D money they spend - You're still not getting it, are you? Everyone benefits that’s how it works. Pharmaceuticals make money and those afflicted with the disease get a cure or a way to control their affliction. If you think it works any other way then you are obviously paranoid delusional. It matters not the motive. Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he? I don’t know and I don’t care. So you post questionable information to prove a point on usenet and admit not caring whether it is completely inaccurate or even intentionally perverted? Some integrity you got there. So you can’t disprove the numbers so you attack the integrity of the poster and the data provided, how typical of you Jade. Look at it this way, if integrity was what I was after I wouldn't be dignifying you with a response now would I? Maybe he just receives grant money from big pharma, most research facilities do. And theyare usually pressured to pay it back in new drug patents or in research data that supports the business. That is the only reason that grant money is ever given. So you are saying that all grant supported medical research is tainted? Are you trying to say he has a hidden agenda? I don't know, but unlike you, I care to know. Yeah of course you do. Why don’t you investigate and report back to me plebe. Isn’t that what many members of this group have been suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? LOLOLOLOL! Jesus ****ing Christ! the monkey and the keyboard axiom comes to life. You didn't read my post at all, did you? Frankly Jade your posts get so predictable that reading them becomes a matter of wading through bull**** and never getting anything conclusive. Again you seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as real hard facts. Nope. Your protobrain once again imported thoughts that never appeared on usenet. Please reread what I posted. You will look far less like a fool next time you respond to me. Then what is your point you mean you haven’t been attacking me for posting unverifiable data and claiming it is for real? Did you spew so much bull**** that you forget your own argument? LOL. That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to promote it as evidence of something. I guess any info that fits your agenda, right? Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100% factual. Show me where I made that claim. You presented the estimates as evidence, Ragnar. You felt that they proved there was a possibility of massive thyroid epidemics or you would not have posted them. People don't post things they think are wrong in an argument, even people as stupid as you. I never said the number were right or wrong. I only wanted to illustrate that the 1 in a million figure posted by “always learning” was in all likelihood a trolls fabrication much like your current argument. So you think the numbers are bogus? Well they could very well be but don’t make assumptions on what I think they are. I’ve already stated that they may or may not be true but one thing is certain the numbers are a lot higher than 1 in a million as “always learning” was trying to claim. Since you claim to be so concerned why don’t you counter those supposedly bogus numbers with the real data? I would also like to see it. My own stance on this issue has never been one of absolutes as you have claimed it is. I’m still waiting for you to show me where I came out and endorsed the quoted numbers as 100% factual. I would suspect that even a bright bulb like you would be hard pressed to prove that. Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to verify. No ****. That's why making an estimate that one in six people has one is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Doing a good job here tearing apart your own post. Do you still think that the good Dr's estimate is a viable possiblity? Idiot, since you claim the numbers are essentially unverifiable then claiming a 1 in 6 ratio is a possibility until disproved with provable data. I don’t really care how ridiculous it looks to you. Prove the numbers wrong then open your ignorant maw. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as supposition. Nobody knows. Yet you posted it as though it meant something. So did the doctor that claims the numbers to be true. I still haven’t seen anything out of you to the contrary other than your arguably unqualified opinion. Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here. oops. Guess you got me there. lol I’m glad we can agree ****stick. Now run along and find the supportable contrary data that you are so concerned about before I am forced to kick you in that rotten **** of yours again. hypocrite. Hypocrite? Do you even know the meaning of the word? Ragnar |
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Ragnar the stupid [ Fat people
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar
wrote: On Apr 21, 1:46*pm, Daedalus wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar wrote: On Apr 21, 12:04*pm, Daedalus wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar wrote: On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote this stuff here : Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price wrote this stuff here : Naughty Boy wrote: Tiger_Lily wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com: Naughty Boy wrote: WaCoder wrote in : Pete wrote: Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you... What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese, i mean... Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid. This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat" with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away with it. For shame.... Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race they were born. Fat people do it to themselves. Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you for the straight dope? How else do fat people get fat? Certainly not by being lazy or stupid. What theories do you have? let's hear them! untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add thyroid meds to diabetes meds is that good enough for you? kate The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take for that one to come up. What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? *I can't imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public. For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do not exercise. i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30 years ago ok, back to you on your high horse kate I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders, although more than half remain undiagnosed." This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual number of people affected. According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to 3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry, there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million people would be hypothyroid. The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million people. http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would believe. Ragnar Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of any information on obesity given by the medical community at large, would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they can uncover. Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never spoke in absolutes. You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility. Hy-Po-Crite. You missed the entire point asswipe; I only presented some an article that may have shed some light on what a poster was questioning. We've only gone through that several times now. Stop whining that I'm the one missing the point when you clearly can't ****ing understand simple English. The “always learning” stated something to the effect that thyroid disorders only affect 1 in a million people. I present some numbers that contradicted his or her ludicrous claims. I never presented them as completely undeniably factual. NO ****. See above, illiterate moron. Do you have supportable numbers to the contrary, I’d love to see them? Why would I? See above, illiterate moron. Besides dumbass show me where I ever pitched a fit over cancer rates and a supposed correlation to obesity. OMFG are you stupid. bwahahahaha! Reread the post, illiterate moron. Pay special attention to the word "if" People post inflammatory articles that at times even contradict each other and you rarely see me making statement as you claim I do. You obviously are still fishing for an argument. Is your life that lacking for entertainment? You pathetic piece of ****. What’s the matter you ugly slob? Still can’t get laid on the weekends? Calm down, Ragnar. Remember your heart. Hold on tight to the fantasy that I'm unattractive and sexless. It clearly makes you feel better. Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting tiresome. Hypocrite Idiot My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid issues and obesity. I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly where this discussion was headed however. Okay, now Jade can read minds. Got anymore tricks for us dumbass? HEY EVERYBODY JADES SHOWING OFF HER POWERS OF CLAIRVOYANCE! COME SEE THE SHOW! What’s next, communication with the dead? I love it when you get hysterical. Where did I say I read your mind, illiterate moron? You really are a presumptuous ass. Taking flaming lessons from Bobbi, I see. If you go back and read I only suggested that the number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in fact hard data. But it is a viable possiblity in your mind, because this one fits your agenda. Viable or not, it is a possibility just like it might not be. I can’t say for certain, nor can you. But you do seem to think that the numbers are bogus so why don’t you set me straight and produce some more accurate numbers that are verifiable. I don't need to. That wasn't the point. The point was you posted them, making you a hypocrite. I already win. Keep throwing your temper tantrum though. In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. Not only that. They go on to ridiculously state that the numbers could only be real if they changed the definition of what a thyroid disorder was. The article suggests lowering the upper limit of the TSH test from . 05 to 5 down to .03 to 3 as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry. The people that would make money off of it. But it doesn’t give a reason why. So commenting on that is irrelevant. You have no clue regarding the reasoning behind the testing threshold so you are not qualified to dispute it. I have firsthand knowledge about the pharma industry and research funding. I guarantee you I know a lot more about it than you do. I clearly understood this when I wrote my post which you did not get at all. * More of Jade’s circle jerk bull**** noted. You clearly recognized nothing of the sort in your pitiful attempt at an argument. IKYABWAI! I any event doctors will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating the numbers. Are you serious? Yes very, a miss or false diagnosis of thyroid disease can lead to serious health complications or even death. No competent doctor would take that kind of chance, so providing inflated study numbers translates to nothing in the real world. You know nothing and are very wrong here. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they don’t have? Of course they are. It happens all the time. That's how the ADD industry came to be a booming business. It makes it much easier when they change the definition of thyroid problems. ADHD and thyroid are very different issues. So are hairloss and the ****ing clap. Pharma industry works the same across the board. Diagnosing thyroid disease requires lab blood analysis and as I stated before a misdiagnosis of a thyroid issue can lead to serious health consequences VERY rapidly. In other words provide a bad diagnosis and prescribe the wrong meds and the patient can die. It isn't about the WRONG meds. It is about a certain kind of meds and getting the FDA to approve use of lower dosages. Again, you are talking to someone who knows first hand about how the pharma industry works. You clearly know nothing. While ADHD only requires sociological profiling of the suspected individual and the meds prescribed do not carry the same health risks. OH right, they can only cause kids to kill themselves and may have a connection to sachizophrenia and other adult mental illness. Prescribing the wrong meds for a thyroid issue can be just as deadly as prescribing the wrong heart medication for a person that doesn’t need it. Heart meds are prescribed all the time for people who don't need them. They "play around" with the dosages all the time to fix certain problems. People may or may not need those drugs. Maybe you should brush up on thyroid disease and the meds provide for such diseases before you make anymore ludicrous statement and embarrass your self further. Read above again and eat ****. You are a certifiable idiot. You obviously know nothing about hypo or hyperthyroidism and what constitutes the disease. I know all about the business end of medicine and how research funding works. You are wrong again. You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that isn’t there. Actually, that's what you were setting up to do. I'm calling you on it. Yeah okay you are privy to what’s in my head. LOL. air. If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive more funding for research then so be it. And if inflated numbers help you argue with people on usenet, then who cares if it is real data or a guess? You still haven't proven that the numbers are inflated and I wasn’t arguing, that point seems to escape you constantly. Doesnt' matter. You posted them. You are a hypocrite. I win. You got something against healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular affiction. It is exactly like that, dummy. Guess where much of the R&D money comes from? And guess who benefits from the R&D money they spend - You're still not getting it, are you? Everyone benefits that’s how it works. Pharmaceuticals make money and those afflicted with the disease get a cure or a way to control their affliction. Pharma makes money. End of story. If you think it works any other way then you are obviously paranoid delusional. It matters not the motive. Ask the dead people who took vioxx, procrit, chantix and a host of other hastily approved and over indicated drugs if it matters. You are out of your league talking to me about this. Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he? I don’t know and I don’t care. So you post questionable information to prove a point on usenet and admit not caring whether it is completely inaccurate or even intentionally perverted? Some integrity you got there. So you can’t disprove the numbers so you attack the integrity of the poster and the data provided, how typical of you Jade. Look at it this way, if integrity was what I was after I would be dignifying you with a response now would I? You can't help it. You have to respond to me. Maybe he just receives grant money from big pharma, most research facilities do. And theyare usually pressured to pay it back in new drug patents or in research data that supports the business. That is the only reason that grant money is ever given. So you are saying that all grant supported medical research is tainted? Far more of it than you realize is. All depends on where the funding comes from. Are you trying to say he has a hidden agenda? I don't know, but unlike you, I care to know. Yeah of course you do. Why don’t you investigate and report back to me plebe. Isn’t that what many members of this group have been suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? LOLOLOLOL! Jesus ****ing Christ! the monkey and the keyboard axiom comes to life. You didn't read my post at all, did you? Frankly Jade your posts get so predictable that reading them becomes a matter of wading through bull**** and never getting anything conclusive. Admission you didn't read it noted. Again you seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as real hard facts. Nope. Your protobrain once again imported thoughts that never appeared on usenet. Please reread what I posted. You will look far less like a fool next time you respond to me. Then what is your point you mean you haven’t been attacking me for posting unverifiable data and claiming it is for real? That is correct. I never said you claimed it was real. If you were not an illiterate moron you would get that. Did you spew so much bull**** that you forget your own argument? LOL. Nope, but you do explode so specatacularly. That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to promote it as evidence of something. I guess any info that fits your agenda, right? Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100% factual. Show me where I made that claim. You presented the estimates as evidence, Ragnar. You felt that they proved there was a possibility of massive thyroid epidemics or you would not have posted them. People don't post things they think are wrong in an argument, even people as stupid as you. I never said the number were right or wrong. I only wanted to illustrate that the 1 in a million figure posted by “always learning” was in all likelihood a trolls fabrication much like your current argument. So you think the numbers are bogus? Well they could very well be but don’t make assumptions on what I think they are. I’ve already stated that they may or may not be true but one thing is certain the numbers are a lot higher than 1 in a million as “always learning” was trying to claim. Since you claim to be so concerned why don’t you counter those supposedly bogus numbers with the real data? I would also like to see it. My own stance on this issue has never been one of absolutes as you have claimed it is. I’m still waiting for you to show me where I came out and endorsed the quoted numbers as 100% factual. I would suspect that even a bright bulb like you would be hard pressed to prove that. Nice rant! Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to verify. No ****. That's why making an estimate that one in six people has one is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Doing a good job here tearing apart your own post. Do you still think that the good Dr's estimate is a viable possiblity? Idiot, since you claim the numbers are essentially unverifiable then claiming a 1 in 6 ratio is a possibility until disproved with provable data. I don’t really care how ridiculous it looks to you. Prove the numbers wrong then open your maw. Yes. More anger. I do enjoy your anger. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as supposition. Nobody knows. Yet you posted it as though it meant something. So did the doctor that claims the numbers to be true. I still haven’t seen anything out of you to the contrary other than your arguably unqualified opinion. That's because I only had to point out your hypocrisy to be right. Making fun of the Dr's claim here is just gravy. Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here. oops. Guess you got me there. lol I’m glad we can agree ****stick. Now run along and find the supportable contrary data that you are so concerned about before I am forced to kick you in that rotten **** of yours again. Victolly for Ragnar the Stupid!!!! LOL! hypocrite. Hypocrite? Do you even know the meaning of the word? You wrote it below: Ragnar Thanks for playing! Jade |
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Ragnar the stupid [ Fat people
On Apr 22, 11:00 am, Daedalus wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar 3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry, there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism.. Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million people would be hypothyroid. The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million people. http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...awareness..htm Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would believe. Ragnar Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of any information on obesity given by the medical community at large, would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they can uncover. Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never spoke in absolutes. You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility. Hy-Po-Crite. You missed the entire point asswipe; I only presented some an article that may have shed some light on what a poster was questioning. We've only gone through that several times now. Stop whining that I'm the one missing the point when you clearly can't ****ing understand simple English. Right, we have gone through it several times and I still don’t understand why you don’t get it. The “always learning” stated something to the effect that thyroid disorders only affect 1 in a million people. I present some numbers that contradicted his or her ludicrous claims. I never presented them as completely undeniably factual. NO ****. See above, illiterate moron. No meaningful response noted. Do you have supportable numbers to the contrary, I’d love to see them? Why would I? See above, illiterate moron. No meaningful response noted. Besides dumbass show me where I ever pitched a fit over cancer rates and a supposed correlation to obesity. OMFG are you stupid. bwahahahaha! Reread the post, illiterate moron. Pay special attention to the word "if" Okay, have it your way. “if” that makes your whole argument supposition. You’re good at that aren’t you? ****ing moron, how does your foot feel with that bullet hole in it? People post inflammatory articles that at times even contradict each other and you rarely see me making statement as you claim I do. You obviously are still fishing for an argument. Is your life that lacking for entertainment? You pathetic piece of ****. What’s the matter you ugly slob? Still can’t get laid on the weekends? Calm down, Ragnar. Remember your heart. Hold on tight to the fantasy that I'm unattractive and sexless. It clearly makes you feel better. Fantasy??? Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting tiresome. Hypocrite Idiot My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid issues and obesity. I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly where this discussion was headed however. Okay, now Jade can read minds. Got anymore tricks for us dumbass? HEY EVERYBODY JADES SHOWING OFF HER POWERS OF CLAIRVOYANCE! COME SEE THE SHOW! What’s next, communication with the dead? I love it when you get hysterical. Where did I say I read your mind, illiterate moron? You were the one that claimed that you had some knowledge of where my argument was headed. That would imply you could read my mind and intentions. The ignorant statement is right there for all to see so don’t play dumb. Oh I forgot you aren’t playing. You really are a presumptuous ass. Taking flaming lessons from Bobbi, I see. I guess you see her hand in everything. After all she is your passion. If you go back and read I only suggested that the number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in fact hard data. But it is a viable possiblity in your mind, because this one fits your agenda. Viable or not, it is a possibility just like it might not be. I can’t say for certain, nor can you. But you do seem to think that the numbers are bogus so why don’t you set me straight and produce some more accurate numbers that are verifiable. I don't need to. That wasn't the point. The point was you posted them, making you a hypocrite. I already win. Keep throwing your temper tantrum though. You still haven’t proven the Hypocrite claim. I’ve asked for proof but you seem to constantly dance around the question. Perhaps you don’t really know what a hypocrite actually is? BTW calling me a hypocrite for posting allegedly false data doesn’t make it true until you dispute what I have written. So far we are still waiting. In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. Not only that. They go on to ridiculously state that the numbers could only be real if they changed the definition of what a thyroid disorder was. The article suggests lowering the upper limit of the TSH test from . 05 to 5 down to .03 to 3 as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry. The people that would make money off of it. "Knowledgeable doctors know that a TSH of around 1 - 2 --- in the low end of the normal range -- is the normal level for people without thyroid disease, and they aim for this range in treating thyroid patients. Keep in mind that a doctor telling you your TSH is "fine" is not enough, because if your doctor is using the standard normal range of .5 to 5 , you could have a TSH of 4 and be told that you are "normal." (Note, some doctors are following a new, recommended TSH range of 0.3 to 3.0). In my own situation, I know I feel terrible at a TSH of 3.0 or above, and I get hyperthyroid symptoms at .1, but I feel well at around 1.5 or so. (NOTE: this TSH is usually kept even lower than 1-2 for thyroid cancer survivors to help prevent recurrence.)" http://thyroid.about.com/od/hypothyr.../tshnormal.htm Treating people with thyroid disease is a balancing act that a one size fits all approach cannot be used. Lowering the threshold numbers is for the benefit of those that may seem to have normal levels but still exhibit symptoms. This is not an uncommon phenomenon when dealing with thyroid issues. It’s amazing that where normal intelligent people see an advantage in helping people lead better and more healthful lives, a pig like you sees profiteering. Your ignorance on this subject disqualifies you from any further serious discussion. But it doesn’t give a reason why. So commenting on that is irrelevant. You have no clue regarding the reasoning behind the testing threshold so you are not qualified to dispute it. I have firsthand knowledge about the pharma industry and research funding. I guarantee you I know a lot more about it than you do. “First hand knowledge” BWAHAHAHAHAH. That’s the best claim by you to date. Try again you unemployed loser. Well I take that back. You probably did have a job attached to the pharmaceutical industry at one time but got caned for ****ing around on Usenet all day. I clearly understood this when I wrote my post which you did not get at all. More of Jade’s circle jerk bull**** noted. You clearly recognized nothing of the sort in your pitiful attempt at an argument. IKYABWAI! No meaningful response noted. I any event doctors will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating the numbers. Are you serious? Yes very, a miss or false diagnosis of thyroid disease can lead to serious health complications or even death. No competent doctor would take that kind of chance, so providing inflated study numbers translates to nothing in the real world. You know nothing and are very wrong here. No meaningful response noted. You can’t prescribe lower dosages for thyroid issues the level of meds must match what the body requires to function. Do you even know how a thyroid works? Do you think that suddenly people are just going to willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they don’t have? Of course they are. It happens all the time. That's how the ADD industry came to be a booming business. It makes it much easier when they change the definition of thyroid problems. ADHD and thyroid are very different issues. So are hairloss and the ****ing clap. Pharma industry works the same across the board. Thank you captain obvious. Diagnosing thyroid disease requires lab blood analysis and as I stated before a misdiagnosis of a thyroid issue can lead to serious health consequences VERY rapidly. In other words provide a bad diagnosis and prescribe the wrong meds and the patient can die. It isn't about the WRONG meds. It is about a certain kind of meds and getting the FDA to approve use of lower dosages. Again, you are talking to someone who knows first hand about how the pharma industry works. You clearly know nothing. Again you are missing the point. And don’t wave you bull**** qualifications around. While some medications can be over-prescribed with little of no detrimental effects you can’t do it with all meds across the board without serious repercussions. Thyroid meds happen to be the type if over-prescribed will lead to major health problems. YOU clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are trying to confuse the issue with your pseudo expertise bull****. While ADHD only requires sociological profiling of the suspected individual and the meds prescribed do not carry the same health risks. OH right, they can only cause kids to kill themselves and may have a connection to sachizophrenia and other adult mental illness. Bull**** child worship noted. Again you shoot your own argument down with your own words “may have a connection” Do you know what the word “may: means dumb ass? The difference is that doctors know what the risks are if thyroid meds are over-prescribed. Prescribing the wrong meds for a thyroid issue can be just as deadly as prescribing the wrong heart medication for a person that doesn’t need it. Heart meds are prescribed all the time for people who don't need them. They "play around" with the dosages all the time to fix certain problems. People may or may not need those drugs. Jade’s brand of circle talk noted Not only is it circler bull****, it has to be the dumbest statement you’ve uttered to date. Why would a doctor prescribe a med if the patient DIDN’T have a “certain problem” that needed fixing? By implying that there is a problem you have justified the need to prescribe a medication you ****ing moron. Competent doctors don’t prescribe heart meds for people that don’t have some kind of need. Do I have to rub your face in your own stupidity time and time again? Do you enjoy being humiliated like this? Maybe you should brush up on thyroid disease and the meds provide for such diseases before you make anymore ludicrous statement and embarrass your self further. Read above again and eat ****. Don't bother reading because you don't understand, just eat the **** and shut the **** up. You are a certifiable idiot. You obviously know nothing about hypo or hyperthyroidism and what constitutes the disease. I know all about the business end of medicine and how research funding works. You are wrong again. Proof? I suspect, like everything you say the above statement is bull**** as well. You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that isn’t there. Actually, that's what you were setting up to do. I'm calling you on it. Yeah okay you are privy to what’s in my head. LOL. air. But unlike you it's not hot. If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive more funding for research then so be it. And if inflated numbers help you argue with people on usenet, then who cares if it is real data or a guess? You still haven't proven that the numbers are inflated and I wasn’t arguing, that point seems to escape you constantly. Doesnt' matter. You posted them. You are a hypocrite. I win. I'm glad you are happy in your own little world. BTW, No meaningful response noted. You got something against healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular affiction. It is exactly like that, dummy. Guess where much of the R&D money comes from? And guess who benefits from the R&D money they spend - You're still not getting it, are you? You're still missing the point aren't you? Everyone benefits that’s how it works. Pharmaceuticals make money and those afflicted with the disease get a cure or a way to control their affliction. Pharma makes money. End of story. Isn't that what they are in business for? If you think it works any other way then you are obviously paranoid delusional. It matters not the motive. Ask the dead people who took vioxx, procrit, chantix and a host of other hastily approved and over indicated drugs if it matters. More emotional crap noted. Jade you really are reaching. You are out of your league talking to me about this. Oh yeah you've proven that one PFFFFFT lol. Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he? I don’t know and I don’t care. So you post questionable information to prove a point on usenet and admit not caring whether it is completely inaccurate or even intentionally perverted? Some integrity you got there. So you can’t disprove the numbers so you attack the integrity of the poster and the data provided, how typical of you Jade. Look at it this way, if integrity was what I was after I would be dignifying you with a response now would I? You can't help it. You have to respond to me. You're stupidity is entertaining I will admit. Maybe he just receives grant money from big pharma, most research facilities do. And theyare usually pressured to pay it back in new drug patents or in research data that supports the business. That is the only reason that grant money is ever given. So you are saying that all grant supported medical research is tainted? Far more of it than you realize is. All depends on where the funding comes from. No doubt. Are you trying to say he has a hidden agenda? I don't know, but unlike you, I care to know. Yeah of course you do. Why don’t you investigate and report back to me plebe. Isn’t that what many members of this group have been suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? LOLOLOLOL! Jesus ****ing Christ! the monkey and the keyboard axiom comes to life. You didn't read my post at all, did you? No meaningful response noted. Frankly Jade your posts get so predictable that reading them becomes a matter of wading through bull**** and never getting anything conclusive. Admission you didn't read it noted. No meaningful response noted. Again you seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as real hard facts. Nope. Your protobrain once again imported thoughts that never appeared on usenet. Please reread what I posted. You will look far less like a fool next time you respond to me. Then what is your point you mean you haven’t been attacking me for posting unverifiable data and claiming it is for real? That is correct. I never said you claimed it was real. If you were not an illiterate moron you would get that. So you have no point to this argument afterall. Thank you for admitting it. Did you spew so much bull**** that you forget your own argument? LOL. Nope, but you do explode so specatacularly. No meaningful response noted. That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to promote it as evidence of something. I guess any info that fits your agenda, right? Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100% factual. Show me where I made that claim. You presented the estimates as evidence, Ragnar. You felt that they proved there was a possibility of massive thyroid epidemics or you would not have posted them. People don't post things they think are wrong in an argument, even people as stupid as you. I never said the number were right or wrong. I only wanted to illustrate that the 1 in a million figure posted by “always learning” was in all likelihood a trolls fabrication much like your current argument. So you think the numbers are bogus? Well they could very well be but don’t make assumptions on what I think they are. I’ve already stated that they may or may not be true but one thing is certain the numbers are a lot higher than 1 in a million as “always learning” was trying to claim. Since you claim to be so concerned why don’t you counter those supposedly bogus numbers with the real data? I would also like to see it. My own stance on this issue has never been one of absolutes as you have claimed it is. I’m still waiting for you to show me where I came out and endorsed the quoted numbers as 100% factual. I would suspect that even a bright bulb like you would be hard pressed to prove that. Nice rant! Thank you BTW, No meaningful response noted. Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to verify. No ****. That's why making an estimate that one in six people has one is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Doing a good job here tearing apart your own post. Do you still think that the good Dr's estimate is a viable possiblity? Idiot, since you claim the numbers are essentially unverifiable then claiming a 1 in 6 ratio is a possibility until disproved with provable data. I don’t really care how ridiculous it looks to you. Prove the numbers wrong then open your maw. Yes. More anger. I do enjoy your anger. Funny, you've never seen me angry. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as supposition. Nobody knows. Yet you posted it as though it meant something. So did the doctor that claims the numbers to be true. I still haven’t seen anything out of you to the contrary other than your arguably unqualified opinion. That's because I only had to point out your hypocrisy to be right. Making fun of the Dr's claim here is just gravy. Dream on. The hyprocrisy part is still hanging. Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here. oops. Guess you got me there. lol I’m glad we can agree ****stick. Now run along and find the supportable contrary data that you are so concerned about before I am forced to kick you in that rotten **** of yours again. Victolly for Ragnar the Stupid!!!! LOL! No meaningful response noted. AGAIN. hypocrite. Hypocrite? Do you even know the meaning of the word? You wrote it below: Ragnar Thanks for playing! And thank you for being such a gracious target. Ragnar |
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Fat people
You can bring your thyroid back with coconut oil and avoiding PUFAs.
I think there is an anecdotal example of woman who lost weight and got pregnant at the age of 45 after switching to coconut oil at the raypeat.com site. Taka |
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Ragnar wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:04 pm, Daedalus wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar wrote: On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote this stuff here : Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price wrote this stuff here : Naughty Boy wrote: Tiger_Lily wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in m: Naughty Boy wrote: WaCoder wrote in : Pete wrote: Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you... What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese, i mean... Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid. This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat" with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away with it. For shame.... Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race they were born. Fat people do it to themselves. Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you for the straight dope? How else do fat people get fat? Certainly not by being lazy or stupid. What theories do you have? let's hear them! untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add thyroid meds to diabetes meds is that good enough for you? kate The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take for that one to come up. What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? I can't imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public. For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do not exercise. i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30 years ago ok, back to you on your high horse kate I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders, although more than half remain undiagnosed." This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual number of people affected. According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to 3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry, there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million people would be hypothyroid. The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million people. http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would believe. Ragnar Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of any information on obesity given by the medical community at large, would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they can uncover. Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never spoke in absolutes. Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting tiresome. My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid issues and obesity. If you go back and read I only suggested that the number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in fact hard data. In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. I any event doctors will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating the numbers. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they don’t have? You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that isn’t there. If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive more funding for research then so be it. You got something against healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular affiction. Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he? I don’t know and I don’t care. Maybe he just receives grant money from big pharma, most research facilities do. Are you trying to say he has a hidden agenda? Isn’t that what many members of this group have been suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? Again you seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as real hard facts. That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to promote it as evidence of something. I guess any info that fits your agenda, right? Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100% factual. Show me where I made that claim. Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to verify. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as supposition. Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here. Ragnar Endocrinology often isn't cut-and-dry. There are some conditions which show up clearly (like tumors on organs, visibly abnormal tissue biopsies, and far out-of-range lab results), and others which have to be defined by complicated lists of criteria, and for which borderline cases far outnumber obvious ones, so deciding on those criteria can be a very tricky business. (I was going to compliment you on providing the figures, Ragnar, but seeing you call somebody "bitch," "dumbass," "stupid fool," "moron," and so on has made me reconsider!) -- Marshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c |
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Fat people
Daedalus wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:10:43 +0000, The Master wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Daedalus wrote: "1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders, although more than half remain undiagnosed." You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility. Hy-Po-Crite. How many people are diagnosed with hypothyroid? Rather then using the 49 million "revised estimate", is the 27 million by "current standard" accepted? If we assume the real value is 20 million, and only half are diagnosed, that would be 10 million have been diagnosed. Is that about correct? 10 million diagnosed, assuming a 50/50 split for hypo vrs hyper, that leaves 5 million diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Is that a figure that is agreed upon? I don't know. My argument here is only that Ragnar is a hypocrite. My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid issues and obesity. I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly where this discussion was headed however. Well, someone that shall remain nameless has said that the ratio of hypothiroidism to normal is 1 out of 1 million. So, doing the math... 5 million americans with hypo, times the 1 million ratio... That would require the United States Population to be 5 trillion. What's the population of the United States again? For that matter, what's the population of the entire world? I do believe the 1:1 million ratio is a tad off. 1 in a million is a ridiculous figure if taken literally. I think the poster who said that figuratively meant that people who were obese due to thyroid problems were very rare. I would agree with that. My point, once again, was that Ragnar tried to rebut the poster with specious medical claims when he has a history of railing against what he considers to be specious medical claims. Jade For what it's worth, I've seen quite plausible arguments that estimates of the incidence of schizophrenia in the general population ought to be 85% (rather than about 5%), based on identifiable symptoms and sound statistics. -- Marshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c |
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On Apr 21, 1:03*pm, Ragnar wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:04*pm, Daedalus wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar wrote: On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote this stuff here : Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price wrote this stuff here : Naughty Boy wrote: Tiger_Lily wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com: Naughty Boy wrote: WaCoder wrote in : Pete wrote: Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you... What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese, i mean... Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid. This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat" with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away with it. For shame.... Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race they were born. Fat people do it to themselves. Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you for the straight dope? How else do fat people get fat? Certainly not by being lazy or stupid. What theories do you have? let's hear them! untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add thyroid meds to diabetes meds is that good enough for you? kate The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take for that one to come up. What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? *I can't imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public. For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do not exercise. i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30 years ago ok, back to you on your high horse kate I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders, although more than half remain undiagnosed." This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual number of people affected. According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to 3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry, there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million people would be hypothyroid. The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million people. http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would believe. Ragnar Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of any information on obesity given by the medical community at large, would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they can uncover. Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never spoke in absolutes. Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting tiresome. My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid issues and obesity. If you go back and read I only suggested that the number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in fact hard data. In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. I any event doctors will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating the numbers. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they don’t have? You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that isn’t there. If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive more funding for research then so be it. You got something against healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular affiction. * Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he? I don’t know and I don’t care. Maybe he just receives grant money from big pharma, most research facilities do. Are you trying to say he has a hidden agenda? Isn’t that what many members of this group have been suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? Again you seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as real hard facts. That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to promote it as evidence of something. I guess any info that fits your agenda, right? Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100% factual. Show me where I made that claim. Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to verify. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as supposition. Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here. Ragnar- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Ragnar, you must not pay any attention to Deadanus, jade, no matter what you say to her, in your eyes you are wrong. she just know it all. jenius |
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Fat people
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 04:33:16 -0700 (PDT), jenius
wrote: On Apr 21, 1:03*pm, Ragnar wrote: On Apr 21, 12:04*pm, Daedalus wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar wrote: On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote this stuff here : Always Learning wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price wrote this stuff here : Naughty Boy wrote: Tiger_Lily wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in : Naughty Boy wrote: Marshall Price wrote in news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com: Naughty Boy wrote: WaCoder wrote in : Pete wrote: Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you... What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese, i mean... Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid. This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat" with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away with it. For shame.... Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race they were born. Fat people do it to themselves. Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you for the straight dope? How else do fat people get fat? Certainly not by being lazy or stupid. What theories do you have? let's hear them! untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add thyroid meds to diabetes meds is that good enough for you? kate The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take for that one to come up. What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? *I can't imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public. For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do not exercise. i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30 years ago ok, back to you on your high horse kate I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders, although more than half remain undiagnosed." This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual number of people affected. According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to 3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry, there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million people would be hypothyroid. The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million people. http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would believe. Ragnar Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of any information on obesity given by the medical community at large, would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they can uncover. Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never spoke in absolutes. Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting tiresome. My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid issues and obesity. If you go back and read I only suggested that the number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in fact hard data. In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. I any event doctors will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating the numbers. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they don’t have? You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that isn’t there. If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive more funding for research then so be it. You got something against healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular affiction. * Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he? I don’t know and I don’t care. Maybe he just receives grant money from big pharma, most research facilities do. Are you trying to say he has a hidden agenda? Isn’t that what many members of this group have been suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? Again you seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as real hard facts. That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to promote it as evidence of something. I guess any info that fits your agenda, right? Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100% factual. Show me where I made that claim. Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to verify. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as supposition. Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here. Ragnar- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Ragnar, you must not pay any attention to Deadanus, jade, no matter what you say to her, in your eyes you are wrong. she just know it all. jenius Oh how I must have hurt you. Can you tell me what it was specifically? Jade |
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