McDougall diet: Jon Hess 59 healed heart disease: Murray 11.23.3rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1040
McDougall diet: Jon Hess 59 healed heart disease: Murray 11.23.3
rmforall

http://www.drmcdougall.com
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdou...hess031120.htm
Jon Hess, No Longer Dying of Heart Disease:
A Star McDougaller Nov 23 2003

I live in Utah and my name is Jon Hess; I will be 59 years old this
year.
Five years ago I ran up four flights of stairs with my children at the
Treasure Island Casino in Las Vegas. I tried to keep up with them; but,
when I reached the top, I experienced an acute angina attack and extreme
shortness of breath. I had to sit down for fifteen or twenty minutes to
recover fully.

The only warning signs I had noticed before this episode was shortness
of
breath when unloading hay and building a haystack. The young man I was
working with kept insisting that he could do the work-hinting with
concern in his voice that I should step aside and rest. This only made
me more determined to keep up--while I did one bale, he did two.

I grew up in a family where meat was a staple and a necessity. Both of
my parents were poor during the Great Depression and having meat on the
table, and milk, cheese, cream, and ice cream in the refrigerator, was
considered essential. My parents migrated from the farm to the city and
with the encouragement of the government, county extension agents,
schools, and church leaders, they continued to provide for us the USDA
recommended balanced diet.

In my youth I was one of the skinniest kids around. My elbows and knees
were larger than my arms and legs. I could eat anything and never gain
an ounce of weight. Even as a teenager, I was very slim; so, I took up
long distance running to gain some measure of glory. But alas, the
cheerleaders still liked the running backs and sprinters more than the
thin and sweaty cross country runners. However, I became a very good
runner and was able to run two miles in ten minutes. Even at the age of
twenty two and in the U.S. Army, I was able to comfortably run a mile in
six minutes in combat boots!

The point of all this is that I felt pretty healthy when I got married
at
age twenty-three. I was 5' 8" tall, had a 28" waist, and weighed 125
lbs. fully dressed. In those days, I always weighed with my clothes on
because I was so terribly self conscious about my slightness of build.
I was also embarrassed by my low blood pressure because I sometimes
fainted when I got out of bed too quickly in the morning. Now, fast
forward through the next thirty years.

I went into the very sedentary computer field working fifty to sixty
hours a week sitting in a comfortable chair in front of a terminal. I
ate the diet of my parents and quit exercising. After twenty-five years
of marriage, I finally got to 135 lbs. In a cholesterol screening test
sponsored by our company, I was told that I was in the lowest 5% of the
nation for risk; and so, I continued to believe that I was totally
healthy.

And then, ten years ago, I slowly started to gain weight, as did the
rest of my family. My older brother got heavy and developed type II
diabetes. My father's mother died of a heart attack. My father had a
heart attack and underwent angioplasty; he developed a heart arrhythmia
and eventually had a pacemaker placed in his chest. My dad's youngest
brother had a massive heart attack and while in the coronary care unit
with a heart surgeon present, he suffered another heart attack and died
at 55 years of age. My closest cousin had bypass surgery following his
heart attack. All of these relatives were overweight and we all ate the
same diet!

I wasn't concerned for myself, however, because I was the thinnest
member
of my family and I used to run long distances. Then, one day, my wife
and I were standing in front of the mirror (au natural) and she said,
"We're just going to have to face it, we're fat!" My children teased
me, "Dad, you look pregnant!" My waist was 38 inches, my blood pressure
was very high, and I weighed 189 lbs.

So, what to do? I didn't need to go to a cardiologist to know that I
fit
neatly into my family pattern of obesity and coronary heart disease. I
knew that if I sought medical help, I would enter the surgery pipeline
of stress tests, angiograms, angioplasties, stents, and bypasses. I had
observed first hand chest pains, angina, nitroglycerin, and visits to
hospital emergency rooms.

So, I called my cousin of the bypasses and asked him, "What can I do to
avoid surgery?" He gave me Dr. Klaper's audio tape "Nutrition for
Optimum Health" and Dr. Ornish's book on reversing heart disease. My
cousin told me, "If you can do this, you can reverse your heart
disease". On the way home, I got pretty excited listening to Dr.
Klaper's presentation. I dived into Dr. Ornish's book.

It was a tough transition because of my ignorance of nutrition and how
to
prepare foods in this new lifestyle. This was an enormous shift of
paradigms and I was getting hungry. I knew not one vegetarian and I
lived in cattle, sheep, and turkey raising country. I prowled the
grocery isles, and struggled with labels. I visited the produce section
of the grocery store, looked at all the raw vegetables and got
discouraged.

I finally started researching on the internet and found vegsource.com
and
Dr. McDougall's books--especially, "The McDougall Program for a Healthy
Heart" and "The New McDougall Cookbook". These books really helped me
understand my own condition and helped me believe that I could make the
transition from carnivore to herbivore and actually enjoy it. Belief is
extremely important in changing behaviors, and accurate knowledge can
fuel belief and change. I also found the Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine (pcrm.org) and dove into their nutrition
curriculum.

I learned to make brown rice and discovered rice cookers. I learned to
make vegetarian chili and steam vegetables. I gave up all meat, dairy,
oils, nuts, sunflower seeds, olives, avocados, refined sugar, and cola
drinks. I started eating whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits.
And as Dr. Klaper promised, good things started to happen. As I gained
a detailed understanding of Atherosclerosis from Dr. McDougall's books,
my resolve was strengthened to be very strict and strive for maximum
healing and rehabilitation of my veins and arteries.

My weight and blood pressure started a steady decline. I had no more
angina attacks. My first walk lasted only one mile and I was spent-and
this from a person who considered himself a distance runner. My mind
surely thought well of myself and my health; but, my body was not going
along with the illusion.

I kept at it though and started walking twice a day until I was walking
three hours a day at my fastest pace. Later in my recovery, I passed my
old high school track and decided to see how fast I could run once
around the track. I was disappointed that I took two minutes and twenty
seconds (in high school I could do it in one minute); but, I was
heartened that I made it the whole 440 yards. I can now run and walk up
long hills for hours. My blood pressure is a healthy 125 over 75. I
have normal cholesterol. I have a 33" waist and I weigh 145 lbs. (I'm
still gradually losing weight).

My focus was on reversing coronary heart disease; and happily, lifelong
conditions of colitis and migraines simply disappeared. Just two months
ago, while reading Star McDougaller Jean Brown's story, "Curing an
Incurable Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis", I decided to give up all wheat
to see if I could get relief from the pain I suffered in both of my hips
and finger joints; and it worked.

My transition to health was fraught with opposition and concern. In
fact, one of the sheep, cattle and turkey ranchers of the valley is also
my family doctor; and when I went in for blood tests on my fifth year
anniversary, my doctor chewed me out for being a vegetarian! And yet
his cardiologist uncle, who is also a rancher, has adopted a more
vegetarian low-fat diet himself because of diabetes.

The argument of everyone was a concern that a vegetarian diet does not
provide enough fat and protein for healthy cell building. I related
this
concern to my older brother Sam, who has a Ph.D. in plant pathology. He
started laughing and asked me, "Jon, what do you think the cell walls of
plants are made of?" I said, "I don't know." Sam continued, "The cell
walls of plants are made of the very fats and proteins that you need to
build your cellular structures"!

Now, five years later, I have regained my health and I just feel good;
and co-workers, friends, and acquaintances have noticed. Amazingly, I
have become a resource, assisting other people into better health. I
encourage people to become independent and educated themselves about
nutrition and its effect on their health. The most elegant explanations
of life in the universe are the most simple; and the most nutritious
diet is in simple whole grains, vegetables, legumes and fruits.

I purchased numerous copies of all of Dr. McDougall's books; but, I
haven't been able to keep them because so many people are searching for
a way out of their poor health. Even though my wife is not yet
convinced; half of my family is. I fill the Sunday dinner table with
baked potatoes, yams, brown rice, numerous vegetables, chili, and
salads; and frequently, we have inquiring friends join us in the feast.
A half dozen of my co-workers are now McDougalling and encouraging their
families and friends to embrace a new healthy lifestyle.

If physicians were to miraculously give sight to one who is blind; or
miraculously restore hearing to one who is deaf; or miraculously heal
the
heart of one who is dying; the world would clamor to their doorsteps by
the millions. But, if the miracle is as simple and inexpensive as a
lifestyle change of a choice of eating habits; few will listen. Humans
seem to only be motivated by the specter of death and disability.

I would think that the news that obesity, high blood pressure, type II
diabetes, atheroslerosis, coronary heart disease, stroke and numerous
inflammatory diseases, can be reversed and avoided would be greeted with
world wide celebration and joy. However, I am optimistic that people
will observe what isn't working in their lives, and they will observe
what works, and change, because of the examples we project.

What weighs on me now, is the observance, that many, many people who are
struggling with these health problems are trapped by their own
behavior. I am saddened that my cousin who generously gave me the
information I needed to recover, could not, himself, ever become a
McDougaller. His breast bones never healed and he developed a fatal
interstitial lung disease as a complication to his original bypass
surgery.

Dr. McDougall's Comments:
You may have heard that people who look outside of themselves for
happiness are always disappointed. Same goes for your health. If
modern medicine had effective solutions for the common problems that
affect almost every man, woman and child living in western societies
then the incidence of disease would be dwindling, rather than
skyrocketing. Stop looking for some else to save you -- or modern
technology to end your suffering - it is not going to happen.

I am often asked if I can predict who will follow my recommendations.
The only qualities I have found that give me clues a the intelligence
of a person and their feelings of self worth. Most of my patients are
successful people with productive lives. These people say to
themselves,
"Look at me. I am such a big success. I have worked hard to secure an
education and have built a successful business. I have loving family
and
friends. I really have a great life. I love life"

Then they reflect on their health and conclude, "If I'm such a big
success, then why am I so fat and sick? Why do I have to take all these
pills? Why do I risk premature death from cancer or heart disease? Why
am I out of control of the most important thing in my life - my
health?" When they have searched their soul to this degree, then they
are ready to learn.

Unfortunately, in order to get to that learning moment many unpleasant
experiences occur: Chest pains, colitis, migraines, obesity, relatives
get sick and die, etc. (Like Jon Hess.) Eventually, (if they don't die
first) people learn they can end the suffering by making a few simple
changes: like oatmeal for eggs, vegetable soup for a cheeseburger, bean
burritos for a bloody steak, sorbet for ice cream, and a walk around the
block for time wasted in front of the TV set. Then, like any worthwhile
change, they look back and say to themselves, "I should have done that a
long time ago."

Dr. McDougall's TOTAL HEALTH SOLUTION for the 21st Century
Dr. McDougall's incredible video program is available on VHS and DVD.
Get
$5000 worth of education for less than $50. These are the core lectures
of the McDougall Program -- more than 5 hours of entertainment,
education and encouragement.
VHS SPECIAL OVERSTOCK PRICE: only $49.95* (regularly $119.95)
DVD SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE: only $49.95* (regularly $89.95) *Plus
Shipping and Handling
To Order Books, DVDs, and Video Tapes visit our web site at
http://www.drmcdougall.com/books_tapes.html or call (800) 570-1654

You may subscribe to the Dr. McDougall Newsletter and Star McDougallers
at http://www.drmcdougall.com
To subscribe, please send a blank e-mail with the words "subscribe
McDougall" as the subject to .

Dates for upcoming live-in programs 2004 January 30 to February 1
Special Introductory Weekend February 6-15 March 12-21

2003 John McDougall All Rights Reserved
************************************************** ***************

Rich Murray, MA Room For All
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505 USA 505-986-9103

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1039
three-page review: aspartame (methanol, formaldehyde) toxicity:
Murray 11.22.3 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1026
brief aspartame review: formaldehyde toxicity: Murray 9.11.3 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
for 1040 posts in a public searchable archive

http://www.vegsource.com extensive vegan information

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/kradjian_milk.htm
Robert Kradjian MD Discusses Milk

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/971
Joel Fuhrman critique of Atkins diet in "Eat To Live":
Murray 3.1.3 rmforall

Substitute stevia (at health food stores).
Avoid all products with aspartame and MSG. Gradually reduce alcohol,
caffeine (coffee, cocoa, and teas), meat, fish, eggs, milk, butter, and
cheese, food additives and colors, fluoride, city water. Enjoy organic
rice, beans, nuts, almond butter, vegetables, fruits, with modest use of
soy products and sprouted grain breads, flax seed and olive oils, and
fill your jugs with deionized water.
************************************************** ***************

You know...you're always talking about walking 3 hours per day. I'd like to
know how many people who post here actually have the time to walk for 3
hours per day. In the real world, not many I would think. Some of us have
jobs and families. 1 hour per day is much more the "norm" for what a person
can fit into their already busy schedule.

Melissa



"Ignoramus16936" wrote in message
...
Llosing weight and exercising is the best route to improving heart
health, more or less regardless of whether meat is eaten or not.

This "John Hess" could have lost his weight on Atkins, as long as he
walked 3 hours a day his heart would be in much better shape at the
end.

i

In article , Rich Murray wrote:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1040
McDougall diet: Jon Hess 59 healed heart disease: Murray 11.23.3
rmforall

http://www.drmcdougall.com
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdou...hess031120.htm
Jon Hess, No Longer Dying of Heart Disease:
A Star McDougaller Nov 23 2003

I live in Utah and my name is Jon Hess; I will be 59 years old this
year.
Five years ago I ran up four flights of stairs with my children at the
Treasure Island Casino in Las Vegas. I tried to keep up with them; but,
when I reached the top, I experienced an acute angina attack and extreme
shortness of breath. I had to sit down for fifteen or twenty minutes to
recover fully.

The only warning signs I had noticed before this episode was shortness
of
breath when unloading hay and building a haystack. The young man I was
working with kept insisting that he could do the work-hinting with
concern in his voice that I should step aside and rest. This only made
me more determined to keep up--while I did one bale, he did two.

I grew up in a family where meat was a staple and a necessity. Both of
my parents were poor during the Great Depression and having meat on the
table, and milk, cheese, cream, and ice cream in the refrigerator, was
considered essential. My parents migrated from the farm to the city and
with the encouragement of the government, county extension agents,
schools, and church leaders, they continued to provide for us the USDA
recommended balanced diet.

In my youth I was one of the skinniest kids around. My elbows and knees
were larger than my arms and legs. I could eat anything and never gain
an ounce of weight. Even as a teenager, I was very slim; so, I took up
long distance running to gain some measure of glory. But alas, the
cheerleaders still liked the running backs and sprinters more than the
thin and sweaty cross country runners. However, I became a very good
runner and was able to run two miles in ten minutes. Even at the age of
twenty two and in the U.S. Army, I was able to comfortably run a mile in
six minutes in combat boots!

The point of all this is that I felt pretty healthy when I got married
at
age twenty-three. I was 5' 8" tall, had a 28" waist, and weighed 125
lbs. fully dressed. In those days, I always weighed with my clothes on
because I was so terribly self conscious about my slightness of build.
I was also embarrassed by my low blood pressure because I sometimes
fainted when I got out of bed too quickly in the morning. Now, fast
forward through the next thirty years.

I went into the very sedentary computer field working fifty to sixty
hours a week sitting in a comfortable chair in front of a terminal. I
ate the diet of my parents and quit exercising. After twenty-five years
of marriage, I finally got to 135 lbs. In a cholesterol screening test
sponsored by our company, I was told that I was in the lowest 5% of the
nation for risk; and so, I continued to believe that I was totally
healthy.

And then, ten years ago, I slowly started to gain weight, as did the
rest of my family. My older brother got heavy and developed type II
diabetes. My father's mother died of a heart attack. My father had a
heart attack and underwent angioplasty; he developed a heart arrhythmia
and eventually had a pacemaker placed in his chest. My dad's youngest
brother had a massive heart attack and while in the coronary care unit
with a heart surgeon present, he suffered another heart attack and died
at 55 years of age. My closest cousin had bypass surgery following his
heart attack. All of these relatives were overweight and we all ate the
same diet!

I wasn't concerned for myself, however, because I was the thinnest
member
of my family and I used to run long distances. Then, one day, my wife
and I were standing in front of the mirror (au natural) and she said,
"We're just going to have to face it, we're fat!" My children teased
me, "Dad, you look pregnant!" My waist was 38 inches, my blood pressure
was very high, and I weighed 189 lbs.

So, what to do? I didn't need to go to a cardiologist to know that I
fit
neatly into my family pattern of obesity and coronary heart disease. I
knew that if I sought medical help, I would enter the surgery pipeline
of stress tests, angiograms, angioplasties, stents, and bypasses. I had
observed first hand chest pains, angina, nitroglycerin, and visits to
hospital emergency rooms.

So, I called my cousin of the bypasses and asked him, "What can I do to
avoid surgery?" He gave me Dr. Klaper's audio tape "Nutrition for
Optimum Health" and Dr. Ornish's book on reversing heart disease. My
cousin told me, "If you can do this, you can reverse your heart
disease". On the way home, I got pretty excited listening to Dr.
Klaper's presentation. I dived into Dr. Ornish's book.

It was a tough transition because of my ignorance of nutrition and how
to
prepare foods in this new lifestyle. This was an enormous shift of
paradigms and I was getting hungry. I knew not one vegetarian and I
lived in cattle, sheep, and turkey raising country. I prowled the
grocery isles, and struggled with labels. I visited the produce section
of the grocery store, looked at all the raw vegetables and got
discouraged.

I finally started researching on the internet and found vegsource.com
and
Dr. McDougall's books--especially, "The McDougall Program for a Healthy
Heart" and "The New McDougall Cookbook". These books really helped me
understand my own condition and helped me believe that I could make the
transition from carnivore to herbivore and actually enjoy it. Belief is
extremely important in changing behaviors, and accurate knowledge can
fuel belief and change. I also found the Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine (pcrm.org) and dove into their nutrition
curriculum.

I learned to make brown rice and discovered rice cookers. I learned to
make vegetarian chili and steam vegetables. I gave up all meat, dairy,
oils, nuts, sunflower seeds, olives, avocados, refined sugar, and cola
drinks. I started eating whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits.
And as Dr. Klaper promised, good things started to happen. As I gained
a detailed understanding of Atherosclerosis from Dr. McDougall's books,
my resolve was strengthened to be very strict and strive for maximum
healing and rehabilitation of my veins and arteries.

My weight and blood pressure started a steady decline. I had no more
angina attacks. My first walk lasted only one mile and I was spent-and
this from a person who considered himself a distance runner. My mind
surely thought well of myself and my health; but, my body was not going
along with the illusion.

I kept at it though and started walking twice a day until I was walking
three hours a day at my fastest pace. Later in my recovery, I passed my
old high school track and decided to see how fast I could run once
around the track. I was disappointed that I took two minutes and twenty
seconds (in high school I could do it in one minute); but, I was
heartened that I made it the whole 440 yards. I can now run and walk up
long hills for hours. My blood pressure is a healthy 125 over 75. I
have normal cholesterol. I have a 33" waist and I weigh 145 lbs. (I'm
still gradually losing weight).

My focus was on reversing coronary heart disease; and happily, lifelong
conditions of colitis and migraines simply disappeared. Just two months
ago, while reading Star McDougaller Jean Brown's story, "Curing an
Incurable Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis", I decided to give up all wheat
to see if I could get relief from the pain I suffered in both of my hips
and finger joints; and it worked.

My transition to health was fraught with opposition and concern. In
fact, one of the sheep, cattle and turkey ranchers of the valley is also
my family doctor; and when I went in for blood tests on my fifth year
anniversary, my doctor chewed me out for being a vegetarian! And yet
his cardiologist uncle, who is also a rancher, has adopted a more
vegetarian low-fat diet himself because of diabetes.

The argument of everyone was a concern that a vegetarian diet does not
provide enough fat and protein for healthy cell building. I related
this
concern to my older brother Sam, who has a Ph.D. in plant pathology. He
started laughing and asked me, "Jon, what do you think the cell walls of
plants are made of?" I said, "I don't know." Sam continued, "The cell
walls of plants are made of the very fats and proteins that you need to
build your cellular structures"!

Now, five years later, I have regained my health and I just feel good;
and co-workers, friends, and acquaintances have noticed. Amazingly, I
have become a resource, assisting other people into better health. I
encourage people to become independent and educated themselves about
nutrition and its effect on their health. The most elegant explanations
of life in the universe are the most simple; and the most nutritious
diet is in simple whole grains, vegetables, legumes and fruits.

I purchased numerous copies of all of Dr. McDougall's books; but, I
haven't been able to keep them because so many people are searching for
a way out of their poor health. Even though my wife is not yet
convinced; half of my family is. I fill the Sunday dinner table with
baked potatoes, yams, brown rice, numerous vegetables, chili, and
salads; and frequently, we have inquiring friends join us in the feast.
A half dozen of my co-workers are now McDougalling and encouraging their
families and friends to embrace a new healthy lifestyle.

If physicians were to miraculously give sight to one who is blind; or
miraculously restore hearing to one who is deaf; or miraculously heal
the
heart of one who is dying; the world would clamor to their doorsteps by
the millions. But, if the miracle is as simple and inexpensive as a
lifestyle change of a choice of eating habits; few will listen. Humans
seem to only be motivated by the specter of death and disability.

I would think that the news that obesity, high blood pressure, type II
diabetes, atheroslerosis, coronary heart disease, stroke and numerous
inflammatory diseases, can be reversed and avoided would be greeted with
world wide celebration and joy. However, I am optimistic that people
will observe what isn't working in their lives, and they will observe
what works, and change, because of the examples we project.

What weighs on me now, is the observance, that many, many people who are
struggling with these health problems are trapped by their own
behavior. I am saddened that my cousin who generously gave me the
information I needed to recover, could not, himself, ever become a
McDougaller. His breast bones never healed and he developed a fatal
interstitial lung disease as a complication to his original bypass
surgery.

Dr. McDougall's Comments:
You may have heard that people who look outside of themselves for
happiness are always disappointed. Same goes for your health. If
modern medicine had effective solutions for the common problems that
affect almost every man, woman and child living in western societies
then the incidence of disease would be dwindling, rather than
skyrocketing. Stop looking for some else to save you -- or modern
technology to end your suffering - it is not going to happen.

I am often asked if I can predict who will follow my recommendations.
The only qualities I have found that give me clues a the intelligence
of a person and their feelings of self worth. Most of my patients are
successful people with productive lives. These people say to
themselves,
"Look at me. I am such a big success. I have worked hard to secure an
education and have built a successful business. I have loving family
and
friends. I really have a great life. I love life"

Then they reflect on their health and conclude, "If I'm such a big
success, then why am I so fat and sick? Why do I have to take all these
pills? Why do I risk premature death from cancer or heart disease? Why
am I out of control of the most important thing in my life - my
health?" When they have searched their soul to this degree, then they
are ready to learn.

Unfortunately, in order to get to that learning moment many unpleasant
experiences occur: Chest pains, colitis, migraines, obesity, relatives
get sick and die, etc. (Like Jon Hess.) Eventually, (if they don't die
first) people learn they can end the suffering by making a few simple
changes: like oatmeal for eggs, vegetable soup for a cheeseburger, bean
burritos for a bloody steak, sorbet for ice cream, and a walk around the
block for time wasted in front of the TV set. Then, like any worthwhile
change, they look back and say to themselves, "I should have done that a
long time ago."

Dr. McDougall's TOTAL HEALTH SOLUTION for the 21st Century
Dr. McDougall's incredible video program is available on VHS and DVD.
Get
$5000 worth of education for less than $50. These are the core lectures
of the McDougall Program -- more than 5 hours of entertainment,
education and encouragement.
VHS SPECIAL OVERSTOCK PRICE: only $49.95* (regularly $119.95)
DVD SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE: only $49.95* (regularly $89.95) *Plus
Shipping and Handling
To Order Books, DVDs, and Video Tapes visit our web site at
http://www.drmcdougall.com/books_tapes.html or call (800) 570-1654

You may subscribe to the Dr. McDougall Newsletter and Star McDougallers
at http://www.drmcdougall.com
To subscribe, please send a blank e-mail with the words "subscribe
McDougall" as the subject to .

Dates for upcoming live-in programs 2004 January 30 to February 1
Special Introductory Weekend February 6-15 March 12-21

2003 John McDougall All Rights Reserved
************************************************** ***************

Rich Murray, MA Room For All
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505 USA 505-986-9103

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1039
three-page review: aspartame (methanol, formaldehyde) toxicity:
Murray 11.22.3 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1026
brief aspartame review: formaldehyde toxicity: Murray 9.11.3 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
for 1040 posts in a public searchable archive

http://www.vegsource.com extensive vegan information

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/kradjian_milk.htm
Robert Kradjian MD Discusses Milk

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/971
Joel Fuhrman critique of Atkins diet in "Eat To Live":
Murray 3.1.3 rmforall

Substitute stevia (at health food stores).
Avoid all products with aspartame and MSG. Gradually reduce alcohol,
caffeine (coffee, cocoa, and teas), meat, fish, eggs, milk, butter, and
cheese, food additives and colors, fluoride, city water. Enjoy organic
rice, beans, nuts, almond butter, vegetables, fruits, with modest use of
soy products and sprouted grain breads, flax seed and olive oils, and
fill your jugs with deionized water.
************************************************** ***************

Now now, Ig doesn't have to prepare meals or clean the house. Mrs. Ig
probably does the yardwork too. I'm just concerned that he doesn't have
time to spend with Ig Jr.

OK, seriously, I have a question. I do the meal prep in my house so
when I changed my WOE, so did DH. For years and years we have had a
deal where I write down the days of the week on the upper right side a
piece of paper and menu ideas on the upper left. He fills in meals to
days (and can add more) and I put the grocery list on the lower half of
the sheet. That way DH does have input (and I don't hear complaints
about, we just had XYZ, we are in a rut, I don't want, etc.). Anyway,
he does have input into what we eat, I just give him slightly different
choices than I did before. My question is, if you don't do the cooking
in your house (and if you don't eat out mostly), how do you change your
WOE?

On 11/25/2003 7:05 AM, Melissa wrote:
You know...you're always talking about walking 3 hours per day. I'd like to
know how many people who post here actually have the time to walk for 3
hours per day. In the real world, not many I would think. Some of us have
jobs and families. 1 hour per day is much more the "norm" for what a person
can fit into their already busy schedule.

Melissa



"Ignoramus16936" wrote in message
...

Llosing weight and exercising is the best route to improving heart
health, more or less regardless of whether meat is eaten or not.

This "John Hess" could have lost his weight on Atkins, as long as he
walked 3 hours a day his heart would be in much better shape at the
end.

i


--
jmk in NC
(who exercies at the gym 1 hr per day, 4-5 days a week and rides outside
for 3.5 hours per weekend and also walks the dogs)

One hour a day is the current Surgeon General's recommendation.

Melissa wrote:

You know...you're always talking about walking 3 hours per day. I'd like to
know how many people who post here actually have the time to walk for 3
hours per day. In the real world, not many I would think. Some of us have
jobs and families. 1 hour per day is much more the "norm" for what a person
can fit into their already busy schedule.

Melissa

"Ignoramus16936" wrote in message
...
Llosing weight and exercising is the best route to improving heart
health, more or less regardless of whether meat is eaten or not.

This "John Hess" could have lost his weight on Atkins, as long as he
walked 3 hours a day his heart would be in much better shape at the
end.

i

In article , Rich Murray wrote:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1040
McDougall diet: Jon Hess 59 healed heart disease: Murray 11.23.3
rmforall

http://www.drmcdougall.com
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdou...hess031120.htm
Jon Hess, No Longer Dying of Heart Disease:
A Star McDougaller Nov 23 2003

I live in Utah and my name is Jon Hess; I will be 59 years old this
year.
Five years ago I ran up four flights of stairs with my children at the
Treasure Island Casino in Las Vegas. I tried to keep up with them; but,
when I reached the top, I experienced an acute angina attack and extreme
shortness of breath. I had to sit down for fifteen or twenty minutes to
recover fully.

The only warning signs I had noticed before this episode was shortness
of
breath when unloading hay and building a haystack. The young man I was
working with kept insisting that he could do the work-hinting with
concern in his voice that I should step aside and rest. This only made
me more determined to keep up--while I did one bale, he did two.

I grew up in a family where meat was a staple and a necessity. Both of
my parents were poor during the Great Depression and having meat on the
table, and milk, cheese, cream, and ice cream in the refrigerator, was
considered essential. My parents migrated from the farm to the city and
with the encouragement of the government, county extension agents,
schools, and church leaders, they continued to provide for us the USDA
recommended balanced diet.

In my youth I was one of the skinniest kids around. My elbows and knees
were larger than my arms and legs. I could eat anything and never gain
an ounce of weight. Even as a teenager, I was very slim; so, I took up
long distance running to gain some measure of glory. But alas, the
cheerleaders still liked the running backs and sprinters more than the
thin and sweaty cross country runners. However, I became a very good
runner and was able to run two miles in ten minutes. Even at the age of
twenty two and in the U.S. Army, I was able to comfortably run a mile in
six minutes in combat boots!

The point of all this is that I felt pretty healthy when I got married
at
age twenty-three. I was 5' 8" tall, had a 28" waist, and weighed 125
lbs. fully dressed. In those days, I always weighed with my clothes on
because I was so terribly self conscious about my slightness of build.
I was also embarrassed by my low blood pressure because I sometimes
fainted when I got out of bed too quickly in the morning. Now, fast
forward through the next thirty years.

I went into the very sedentary computer field working fifty to sixty
hours a week sitting in a comfortable chair in front of a terminal. I
ate the diet of my parents and quit exercising. After twenty-five years
of marriage, I finally got to 135 lbs. In a cholesterol screening test
sponsored by our company, I was told that I was in the lowest 5% of the
nation for risk; and so, I continued to believe that I was totally
healthy.

And then, ten years ago, I slowly started to gain weight, as did the
rest of my family. My older brother got heavy and developed type II
diabetes. My father's mother died of a heart attack. My father had a
heart attack and underwent angioplasty; he developed a heart arrhythmia
and eventually had a pacemaker placed in his chest. My dad's youngest
brother had a massive heart attack and while in the coronary care unit
with a heart surgeon present, he suffered another heart attack and died
at 55 years of age. My closest cousin had bypass surgery following his
heart attack. All of these relatives were overweight and we all ate the
same diet!

I wasn't concerned for myself, however, because I was the thinnest
member
of my family and I used to run long distances. Then, one day, my wife
and I were standing in front of the mirror (au natural) and she said,
"We're just going to have to face it, we're fat!" My children teased
me, "Dad, you look pregnant!" My waist was 38 inches, my blood pressure
was very high, and I weighed 189 lbs.

So, what to do? I didn't need to go to a cardiologist to know that I
fit
neatly into my family pattern of obesity and coronary heart disease. I
knew that if I sought medical help, I would enter the surgery pipeline
of stress tests, angiograms, angioplasties, stents, and bypasses. I had
observed first hand chest pains, angina, nitroglycerin, and visits to
hospital emergency rooms.

So, I called my cousin of the bypasses and asked him, "What can I do to
avoid surgery?" He gave me Dr. Klaper's audio tape "Nutrition for
Optimum Health" and Dr. Ornish's book on reversing heart disease. My
cousin told me, "If you can do this, you can reverse your heart
disease". On the way home, I got pretty excited listening to Dr.
Klaper's presentation. I dived into Dr. Ornish's book.

It was a tough transition because of my ignorance of nutrition and how
to
prepare foods in this new lifestyle. This was an enormous shift of
paradigms and I was getting hungry. I knew not one vegetarian and I
lived in cattle, sheep, and turkey raising country. I prowled the
grocery isles, and struggled with labels. I visited the produce section
of the grocery store, looked at all the raw vegetables and got
discouraged.

I finally started researching on the internet and found vegsource.com
and
Dr. McDougall's books--especially, "The McDougall Program for a Healthy
Heart" and "The New McDougall Cookbook". These books really helped me
understand my own condition and helped me believe that I could make the
transition from carnivore to herbivore and actually enjoy it. Belief is
extremely important in changing behaviors, and accurate knowledge can
fuel belief and change. I also found the Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine (pcrm.org) and dove into their nutrition
curriculum.

I learned to make brown rice and discovered rice cookers. I learned to
make vegetarian chili and steam vegetables. I gave up all meat, dairy,
oils, nuts, sunflower seeds, olives, avocados, refined sugar, and cola
drinks. I started eating whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits.
And as Dr. Klaper promised, good things started to happen. As I gained
a detailed understanding of Atherosclerosis from Dr. McDougall's books,
my resolve was strengthened to be very strict and strive for maximum
healing and rehabilitation of my veins and arteries.

My weight and blood pressure started a steady decline. I had no more
angina attacks. My first walk lasted only one mile and I was spent-and
this from a person who considered himself a distance runner. My mind
surely thought well of myself and my health; but, my body was not going
along with the illusion.

I kept at it though and started walking twice a day until I was walking
three hours a day at my fastest pace. Later in my recovery, I passed my
old high school track and decided to see how fast I could run once
around the track. I was disappointed that I took two minutes and twenty
seconds (in high school I could do it in one minute); but, I was
heartened that I made it the whole 440 yards. I can now run and walk up
long hills for hours. My blood pressure is a healthy 125 over 75. I
have normal cholesterol. I have a 33" waist and I weigh 145 lbs. (I'm
still gradually losing weight).

My focus was on reversing coronary heart disease; and happily, lifelong
conditions of colitis and migraines simply disappeared. Just two months
ago, while reading Star McDougaller Jean Brown's story, "Curing an
Incurable Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis", I decided to give up all wheat
to see if I could get relief from the pain I suffered in both of my hips
and finger joints; and it worked.

My transition to health was fraught with opposition and concern. In
fact, one of the sheep, cattle and turkey ranchers of the valley is also
my family doctor; and when I went in for blood tests on my fifth year
anniversary, my doctor chewed me out for being a vegetarian! And yet
his cardiologist uncle, who is also a rancher, has adopted a more
vegetarian low-fat diet himself because of diabetes.

The argument of everyone was a concern that a vegetarian diet does not
provide enough fat and protein for healthy cell building. I related
this
concern to my older brother Sam, who has a Ph.D. in plant pathology. He
started laughing and asked me, "Jon, what do you think the cell walls of
plants are made of?" I said, "I don't know." Sam continued, "The cell
walls of plants are made of the very fats and proteins that you need to
build your cellular structures"!

Now, five years later, I have regained my health and I just feel good;
and co-workers, friends, and acquaintances have noticed. Amazingly, I
have become a resource, assisting other people into better health. I
encourage people to become independent and educated themselves about
nutrition and its effect on their health. The most elegant explanations
of life in the universe are the most simple; and the most nutritious
diet is in simple whole grains, vegetables, legumes and fruits.

I purchased numerous copies of all of Dr. McDougall's books; but, I
haven't been able to keep them because so many people are searching for
a way out of their poor health. Even though my wife is not yet
convinced; half of my family is. I fill the Sunday dinner table with
baked potatoes, yams, brown rice, numerous vegetables, chili, and
salads; and frequently, we have inquiring friends join us in the feast.
A half dozen of my co-workers are now McDougalling and encouraging their
families and friends to embrace a new healthy lifestyle.

If physicians were to miraculously give sight to one who is blind; or
miraculously restore hearing to one who is deaf; or miraculously heal
the
heart of one who is dying; the world would clamor to their doorsteps by
the millions. But, if the miracle is as simple and inexpensive as a
lifestyle change of a choice of eating habits; few will listen. Humans
seem to only be motivated by the specter of death and disability.

I would think that the news that obesity, high blood pressure, type II
diabetes, atheroslerosis, coronary heart disease, stroke and numerous
inflammatory diseases, can be reversed and avoided would be greeted with
world wide celebration and joy. However, I am optimistic that people
will observe what isn't working in their lives, and they will observe
what works, and change, because of the examples we project.

What weighs on me now, is the observance, that many, many people who are
struggling with these health problems are trapped by their own
behavior. I am saddened that my cousin who generously gave me the
information I needed to recover, could not, himself, ever become a
McDougaller. His breast bones never healed and he developed a fatal
interstitial lung disease as a complication to his original bypass
surgery.

Dr. McDougall's Comments:
You may have heard that people who look outside of themselves for
happiness are always disappointed. Same goes for your health. If
modern medicine had effective solutions for the common problems that
affect almost every man, woman and child living in western societies
then the incidence of disease would be dwindling, rather than
skyrocketing. Stop looking for some else to save you -- or modern
technology to end your suffering - it is not going to happen.

I am often asked if I can predict who will follow my recommendations.
The only qualities I have found that give me clues a the intelligence
of a person and their feelings of self worth. Most of my patients are
successful people with productive lives. These people say to
themselves,
"Look at me. I am such a big success. I have worked hard to secure an
education and have built a successful business. I have loving family
and
friends. I really have a great life. I love life"

Then they reflect on their health and conclude, "If I'm such a big
success, then why am I so fat and sick? Why do I have to take all these
pills? Why do I risk premature death from cancer or heart disease? Why
am I out of control of the most important thing in my life - my
health?" When they have searched their soul to this degree, then they
are ready to learn.

Unfortunately, in order to get to that learning moment many unpleasant
experiences occur: Chest pains, colitis, migraines, obesity, relatives
get sick and die, etc. (Like Jon Hess.) Eventually, (if they don't die
first) people learn they can end the suffering by making a few simple
changes: like oatmeal for eggs, vegetable soup for a cheeseburger, bean
burritos for a bloody steak, sorbet for ice cream, and a walk around the
block for time wasted in front of the TV set. Then, like any worthwhile
change, they look back and say to themselves, "I should have done that a
long time ago."

Dr. McDougall's TOTAL HEALTH SOLUTION for the 21st Century
Dr. McDougall's incredible video program is available on VHS and DVD.
Get
$5000 worth of education for less than $50. These are the core lectures
of the McDougall Program -- more than 5 hours of entertainment,
education and encouragement.
VHS SPECIAL OVERSTOCK PRICE: only $49.95* (regularly $119.95)
DVD SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE: only $49.95* (regularly $89.95) *Plus
Shipping and Handling
To Order Books, DVDs, and Video Tapes visit our web site at
http://www.drmcdougall.com/books_tapes.html or call (800) 570-1654

You may subscribe to the Dr. McDougall Newsletter and Star McDougallers
at http://www.drmcdougall.com
To subscribe, please send a blank e-mail with the words "subscribe
McDougall" as the subject to .

Dates for upcoming live-in programs 2004 January 30 to February 1
Special Introductory Weekend February 6-15 March 12-21

2003 John McDougall All Rights Reserved
************************************************** ***************

Rich Murray, MA Room For All
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505 USA 505-986-9103

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1039
three-page review: aspartame (methanol, formaldehyde) toxicity:
Murray 11.22.3 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1026
brief aspartame review: formaldehyde toxicity: Murray 9.11.3 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
for 1040 posts in a public searchable archive

http://www.vegsource.com extensive vegan information

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/kradjian_milk.htm
Robert Kradjian MD Discusses Milk

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/971
Joel Fuhrman critique of Atkins diet in "Eat To Live":
Murray 3.1.3 rmforall

Substitute stevia (at health food stores).
Avoid all products with aspartame and MSG. Gradually reduce alcohol,
caffeine (coffee, cocoa, and teas), meat, fish, eggs, milk, butter, and
cheese, food additives and colors, fluoride, city water. Enjoy organic
rice, beans, nuts, almond butter, vegetables, fruits, with modest use of
soy products and sprouted grain breads, flax seed and olive oils, and
fill your jugs with deionized water.
************************************************** ***************

That's the point. You have to cook, preferably from scratch
which is the cheapest, because otherwise you have no control
over what you are eating.

jmk wrote:

Now now, Ig doesn't have to prepare meals or clean the house. Mrs. Ig
probably does the yardwork too. I'm just concerned that he doesn't have
time to spend with Ig Jr.

OK, seriously, I have a question. I do the meal prep in my house so
when I changed my WOE, so did DH. For years and years we have had a
deal where I write down the days of the week on the upper right side a
piece of paper and menu ideas on the upper left. He fills in meals to
days (and can add more) and I put the grocery list on the lower half of
the sheet. That way DH does have input (and I don't hear complaints
about, we just had XYZ, we are in a rut, I don't want, etc.). Anyway,
he does have input into what we eat, I just give him slightly different
choices than I did before. My question is, if you don't do the cooking
in your house (and if you don't eat out mostly), how do you change your
WOE?

On 11/25/2003 7:05 AM, Melissa wrote:
You know...you're always talking about walking 3 hours per day. I'd like to
know how many people who post here actually have the time to walk for 3
hours per day. In the real world, not many I would think. Some of us have
jobs and families. 1 hour per day is much more the "norm" for what a person
can fit into their already busy schedule.

Melissa



"Ignoramus16936" wrote in message
...

Llosing weight and exercising is the best route to improving heart
health, more or less regardless of whether meat is eaten or not.

This "John Hess" could have lost his weight on Atkins, as long as he
walked 3 hours a day his heart would be in much better shape at the
end.

i


--
jmk in NC
(who exercies at the gym 1 hr per day, 4-5 days a week and rides outside
for 3.5 hours per weekend and also walks the dogs)

jmk wrote:
Now now, Ig doesn't have to prepare meals or clean the house. Mrs. Ig
probably does the yardwork too. I'm just concerned that he doesn't have
time to spend with Ig Jr.

And don't forget the nanny and the grandmother. Iggy's got more backup
than any of could dream of!

I've got a 14 room house, three kids in three different schools in three
different towns with no buses, a business, a husband who likes the smell
of food cooking when he gets home, a dog, cat, bird, fish and lizard and
my youngest is only in school three days a week. I'm either with my four
year old or I'm driving all day long. I barely squeeze in work at all.

-- Wendy

I've read nearly everything McDougall wrote. My mother has been to his
"camp". My best friend has been a McDougall vegan for many years - she
lost about 60 pounds about 7 years ago by going vegan. She appears to be
in good enough health.

My mother, on the other hand, has only gotten heavier. The problem is
that a diet high in carbs and very, very low in protein and fat is not
very satieting. In other words, you EAT a lot to feel full. Or you go
hungry a lot.

I was always a whole foods consumer, cooking from scratch, etc. I was
going more and more into a vegan lifestyle until I realized one day that I
was a.) fatter than ever and b.) had vanishingly low HDL that actually put
me at risk for heart disease despite my low overall cholesterol. The
vegan diet was NOT reversing heart disease in me, it was aiding and
abetting it's formation.

I switched my diet overnight from 75% carb/15% protein/10% fat (a
McDougall lineup) to a 45% carb/30% protein/25% fat diet (more of a Zone
or Body for Life or South Beach or Glycemic Index lineup) and miraculous
things started happening. I was satisified on less calories. Food tasted
better. My body ran better. Skin conditions I'd had for years cleared
up. And I lost nearly 60 pounds.

Just for full disclosure, I also changed my exercise habits. I went from
working out about 5 times a week for 45 minutes or so of walking or other
moderate intensity cardio to doing high intensity, shorter workouts 6
times a week. My actual time exercising decreased.

Obviously the McDougall program works for some people. It appears to be
very useful for people who have never considered limiting their saturated
fat before. But I would be very, very careful about extrapolating those
results to say "avoid ALL fats and ALL meats". My best friend eats no
fish, for example. I think that crosses the line from "trying to be
healthy" to "eating according to religious edicts."

Wendy

On 11/25/2003 8:37 AM, Wendy wrote:
I've read nearly everything McDougall wrote. My mother has been to his
"camp". My best friend has been a McDougall vegan for many years - she
lost about 60 pounds about 7 years ago by going vegan. She appears to be
in good enough health.

My mother, on the other hand, has only gotten heavier. The problem is
that a diet high in carbs and very, very low in protein and fat is not
very satiating. In other words, you EAT a lot to feel full. Or you go
hungry a lot.

Regarding the satiating effect, doesn't it depend on what carbs you are
eating? Certainly the hyper processed carbs that are so readily
available are not very satiating, however, whole grains are. Well,
YMMV, I suspect that what has a satiating effect may really vary from
person to person.

In the same way, as you know, it matters which fats you eat (from a
health standpoint). Trans fats = very bad, saturated fat = pretty bad,
unsaturated fat = actually pretty good for you and so forth. BTW,
Wendy, didn't you say that you are focusing more on EFAs? Are you
trying to do this through diet or supplements or a combination? How is
that working out for you? Have you noticed any difference in you skin,
etc.? Just curious. After getting my weight where I would like it, I
started to focus a bit more on EFAs and so forth as I added calories
back into my diet and I thought that I remembered reading a post about
it that you wrote.

As an aside, have you seen that they are now making a non-hydrogenated
shortening (Spectrum)? I have only seen it at Whole Foods but it's nice
to see that someone is wising up.


--
jmk in NC

Once upon a time, our fellow Rich Murray
rambled on about "McDougall diet: Jon Hess 59 healed heart disease:
Murray 11.23.3 rmforall."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Jon Hess, No Longer Dying of Heart Disease:
A Star McDougaller Nov 23 2003

I live in Utah and my name is Jon Hess; I will be 59 years old this
year.

Five years ago I ran up four flights of stairs with my children at the
Treasure Island Casino in Las Vegas. I tried to keep up with them; but,
when I reached the top, I experienced an acute angina attack and extreme
shortness of breath. I had to sit down for fifteen or twenty minutes to
recover fully.

There is in fact a point of no return in health. People suffering
from some forms of heart disease have in fact reached the point of no
return from years of neglect and abuse to their bodies.

The reason is very simple. Unlike other muscles in your body, your
heart muscle cannot repair itself very well. So, once you damaged
your heart muscle: You are in fact pretty well screwed for life.

Of course, some amount of improvement is possible, but a 100% cure or
recovery simply wont happen with a damaged heart.

Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!

The final determination of what is best for the patient is both the
right and responsibility of the individual patient.
--
John Gohde,
Patient Empowerment Advocate
http://home.naturalhealthperspective...powerment.html
Email:
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com - Pioneering De-Medicalization by
handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care and
autonomy, and resisting the categorization of life's problems as
medical.

In alt.support.diet Melissa wrote:
know how many people who post here actually have the time to walk for 3
hours per day. In the real world, not many I would think. Some of us have
jobs and families.

I raise 4 children without a car. We walk everywhere we have to go
(barring of course, time or extreme weather constraints). Some people
do use walking as actual transportation, blending it in with other
aspects of their life. Today I spent nearly 3 hours on foot. Almost
half that time, with kids in tow, and back pack on my back.

1 hour per day is much more the "norm" for what a
person can fit into their already busy schedule.

If they separate it from their other activities, I could easily see
that. 8-9 hours of an office job, then coming home so one can spend the
precious remaining time with their children, I can see how it would be
difficult to work in the walking time.

If I were to be employed outside the home, I'd still try to work in
little ways to commute to work and still get walking time in. Since,
when travelling on my own (public transit), I frequently get off at a
distance great enough to still get in a 20 minute walk each way, I can
see that continuing as much as my work schedule would allow me to.

That, and walking to and from the grocery store (1 hour total walking
time there - there, shopping, and back). One particularly busy day,
I actually timed how much time I spent on my feet, and it came to well
over 5 hours.

CM