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#11
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Low-carb diet increased total and cardiovascular mortality
On Mar 29, 2:38 pm, "Bob in CT" wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:37:44 -0400, Cubit wrote: I'm not clear what the study means by reducing carbs by a "decile." These subjects may have been eating 135 carbs per day instead of 150 carbs per day. The total net carbs per day for the subjects is a key missing number. IMHO, if the net carbs had averaged 30 per day, the results would be different. Secondly, the study replaced carbs with protein. Protein in excess converts to sugar. The correct replacement is fat. While there is much I do not understand in the study report, I think it is clear enough that the framers of the study had no understanding of proper low carb diets. Actually, just about any study that replaces carbs with protein finds a benefit (and I'm sure that replacing carbs with fat would provide a similar benefit). And, what the heck is the definition of a Med diet? Take a look at Italy, where there are any number of different diets, and that's just one country. To insuate that there's one diet that's Med is freaking assinine. -- Bob in CT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Before you even get to the definition of a Mediterranean diet, contrary to the assertion made a few posts ago, the statement regarding the Mediterranean diet is not found in the study. They don't even use the word in the study. |
#12
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Low-carb diet increased total and cardiovascular mortality
On Mar 29, 1:17 pm, "Hollywood" wrote:
On Mar 29, 2:10 pm, "Juhana Harju" wrote: On 28 maalis, 23:37, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote: Juhana Harju wrote: A low carbohydrate and high protein diet increased total and cardiovascular mortality among Swedish women. Conclusions. A diet characterized by low carbohydrate and high protein intake was associated with increased total and particularly cardiovascular mortality amongst women. Vigilance with respect to long-term adherence to such weight control regimes is advisable. This is likely due to increased rates of lipid peroxidation in the setting of hyperketonemia. Andrew Thanks for an interesting pointer. Here is one Medline reference on the subject. Free Radic Biol Med. 1998 Dec;25(9):1083-8. Ketosis (acetoacetate) can generate oxygen radicals and cause increased lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in human endothelial cells.Jain SK, Kannan K, Lim G. Department of Pediatrics, Louisiana State University Medical Center, Shreveport 71103, USA. Elevated level of cellular lipid peroxidation can increase the incidence of vascular disease. The mechanism by which ketosis causes accelerated cellular damage and vascular disease in diabetes is not known. This study was undertaken to test the hypothesis that elevated levels of ketone bodies increase lipid peroxidation in endothelial cells. Human umbilical venous endothelial cells (HUVEC) were cultured for 24 h at 37 degrees C with ketone bodies (acetoacetate, beta- hydroxybutyrate). Acetoacetate, but not beta-hydroxybutyrate, caused an increase in lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in cultured HUVEC. To determine whether ketone bodies generate oxygen radicals, studies using cell-free buffered solution were performed. They showed a significant superoxide dismutase (SOD) inhibitable reduction of cytochrome C by acetoacetate, but not by beta-hydroxybutyrate, suggesting the generation of superoxide anion radicals by acetoacetate. Additional studies show that Fe2+ potentiates oxygen radical generation by acetoacetate. Thus, elevated levels of ketone body acetoacetate can generate oxygen radicals and cause lipid peroxidation in endothelial cells, providing a possible mechanism for the increased incidence of vascular disease in diabetes. PMID: 9870562 http://tinyurl.com/yoe4k5 -- Juhana Uhm, and the observation in actual people here is... well, I don't see it. Your study uses some less flexible stem cells in a test tube, dumps some ketone bodies in, and makes a claim about vascular diseases in diabetics. That's a big leap, before we even get to people with a normal, functioning insulin metabolism. Crap science and if you can read, you know it. Thanks for playing Jujube.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It is called cherry picking. TC |
#13
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Low-carb diet increased total and cardiovascular mortality
On Mar 30, 3:29 pm, "Tunderbar" wrote:
On Mar 29, 1:17 pm, "Hollywood" wrote: On Mar 29, 2:10 pm, "Juhana Harju" wrote: On 28 maalis, 23:37, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote: Juhana Harju wrote: A low carbohydrate and high protein diet increased total and cardiovascular mortality among Swedish women. Conclusions. A diet characterized by low carbohydrate and high protein intake was associated with increased total and particularly cardiovascular mortality amongst women. Vigilance with respect to long-term adherence to such weight control regimes is advisable. This is likely due to increased rates of lipid peroxidation in the setting of hyperketonemia. Andrew Thanks for an interesting pointer. Here is one Medline reference on the subject. Free Radic Biol Med. 1998 Dec;25(9):1083-8. Ketosis (acetoacetate) can generate oxygen radicals and cause increased lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in human endothelial cells.Jain SK, Kannan K, Lim G. Department of Pediatrics, Louisiana State University Medical Center, Shreveport 71103, USA. Elevated level of cellular lipid peroxidation can increase the incidence of vascular disease. The mechanism by which ketosis causes accelerated cellular damage and vascular disease in diabetes is not known. This study was undertaken to test the hypothesis that elevated levels of ketone bodies increase lipid peroxidation in endothelial cells. Human umbilical venous endothelial cells (HUVEC) were cultured for 24 h at 37 degrees C with ketone bodies (acetoacetate, beta- hydroxybutyrate). Acetoacetate, but not beta-hydroxybutyrate, caused an increase in lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in cultured HUVEC. To determine whether ketone bodies generate oxygen radicals, studies using cell-free buffered solution were performed. They showed a significant superoxide dismutase (SOD) inhibitable reduction of cytochrome C by acetoacetate, but not by beta-hydroxybutyrate, suggesting the generation of superoxide anion radicals by acetoacetate. Additional studies show that Fe2+ potentiates oxygen radical generation by acetoacetate. Thus, elevated levels of ketone body acetoacetate can generate oxygen radicals and cause lipid peroxidation in endothelial cells, providing a possible mechanism for the increased incidence of vascular disease in diabetes. PMID: 9870562 http://tinyurl.com/yoe4k5 -- Juhana Uhm, and the observation in actual people here is... well, I don't see it. Your study uses some less flexible stem cells in a test tube, dumps some ketone bodies in, and makes a claim about vascular diseases in diabetics. That's a big leap, before we even get to people with a normal, functioning insulin metabolism. Crap science and if you can read, you know it. Thanks for playing Jujube.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It is called cherry picking. Yeah. They might work on Head-From-Ass-picking instead. It's a more drastic need. |
#14
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Low-carb diet increased total and cardiovascular mortality
On Mar 30, 8:29 pm, "Tunderbar" wrote:
It is called cherry picking. More formally called "proof by selected instances" (the word "proof" in this context being used in an ironic/sarcastic way). |
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