Low-carb diet increased total and cardiovascular mortality

On Mar 29, 2:38 pm, "Bob in CT" wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:37:44 -0400, Cubit wrote:
I'm not clear what the study means by reducing carbs by a "decile."
These
subjects may have been eating 135 carbs per day instead of 150 carbs per
day. The total net carbs per day for the subjects is a key missing
number.
IMHO, if the net carbs had averaged 30 per day, the results would be
different.

Secondly, the study replaced carbs with protein. Protein in excess
converts
to sugar. The correct replacement is fat.

While there is much I do not understand in the study report, I think it
is
clear enough that the framers of the study had no understanding of proper
low carb diets.

Actually, just about any study that replaces carbs with protein finds a
benefit (and I'm sure that replacing carbs with fat would provide a
similar benefit).

And, what the heck is the definition of a Med diet? Take a look at Italy,
where there are any number of different diets, and that's just one
country. To insuate that there's one diet that's Med is freaking assinine.

--
Bob in CT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Before you even get to the definition of a Mediterranean diet,
contrary to the assertion made a few posts ago, the statement
regarding the Mediterranean diet is not found in the study. They
don't even use the word in the study.

On Mar 29, 1:17 pm, "Hollywood" wrote:
On Mar 29, 2:10 pm, "Juhana Harju" wrote:





On 28 maalis, 23:37, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

wrote:
Juhana Harju wrote:
A low carbohydrate and high protein diet increased total and cardiovascular
mortality among Swedish women.
Conclusions. A diet characterized by low carbohydrate and high protein
intake was associated with increased total and particularly cardiovascular
mortality amongst women. Vigilance with respect to long-term adherence to
such weight control regimes is advisable.

This is likely due to increased rates of lipid peroxidation in the
setting of hyperketonemia.

Andrew

Thanks for an interesting pointer.

Here is one Medline reference on the subject.

Free Radic Biol Med. 1998 Dec;25(9):1083-8.
Ketosis (acetoacetate) can generate oxygen radicals and cause
increased lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in human
endothelial cells.Jain SK, Kannan K, Lim G.
Department of Pediatrics, Louisiana State University Medical Center,
Shreveport 71103, USA.

Elevated level of cellular lipid peroxidation can increase the
incidence of vascular disease. The mechanism by which ketosis causes
accelerated cellular damage and vascular disease in diabetes is not
known. This study was undertaken to test the hypothesis that elevated
levels of ketone bodies increase lipid peroxidation in endothelial
cells. Human umbilical venous endothelial cells (HUVEC) were cultured
for 24 h at 37 degrees C with ketone bodies (acetoacetate, beta-
hydroxybutyrate). Acetoacetate, but not beta-hydroxybutyrate, caused
an increase in lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in cultured
HUVEC. To determine whether ketone bodies generate oxygen radicals,
studies using cell-free buffered solution were performed. They showed
a significant superoxide dismutase (SOD) inhibitable reduction of
cytochrome C by acetoacetate, but not by beta-hydroxybutyrate,
suggesting the generation of superoxide anion radicals by
acetoacetate. Additional studies show that Fe2+ potentiates oxygen
radical generation by acetoacetate. Thus, elevated levels of ketone
body acetoacetate can generate oxygen radicals and cause lipid
peroxidation in endothelial cells, providing a possible mechanism for
the increased incidence of vascular disease in diabetes. PMID: 9870562

http://tinyurl.com/yoe4k5

--
Juhana

Uhm, and the observation in actual people here is... well, I don't see
it. Your study uses some less flexible stem cells in a test tube,
dumps some ketone bodies in, and makes a claim about vascular diseases
in diabetics. That's a big leap, before we even get to people with a
normal, functioning insulin metabolism. Crap science and if you can
read, you know it. Thanks for playing Jujube.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is called cherry picking.

TC

On Mar 30, 3:29 pm, "Tunderbar" wrote:
On Mar 29, 1:17 pm, "Hollywood" wrote:



On Mar 29, 2:10 pm, "Juhana Harju" wrote:

On 28 maalis, 23:37, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

wrote:
Juhana Harju wrote:
A low carbohydrate and high protein diet increased total and cardiovascular
mortality among Swedish women.
Conclusions. A diet characterized by low carbohydrate and high protein
intake was associated with increased total and particularly cardiovascular
mortality amongst women. Vigilance with respect to long-term adherence to
such weight control regimes is advisable.

This is likely due to increased rates of lipid peroxidation in the
setting of hyperketonemia.

Andrew

Thanks for an interesting pointer.

Here is one Medline reference on the subject.

Free Radic Biol Med. 1998 Dec;25(9):1083-8.
Ketosis (acetoacetate) can generate oxygen radicals and cause
increased lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in human
endothelial cells.Jain SK, Kannan K, Lim G.
Department of Pediatrics, Louisiana State University Medical Center,
Shreveport 71103, USA.

Elevated level of cellular lipid peroxidation can increase the
incidence of vascular disease. The mechanism by which ketosis causes
accelerated cellular damage and vascular disease in diabetes is not
known. This study was undertaken to test the hypothesis that elevated
levels of ketone bodies increase lipid peroxidation in endothelial
cells. Human umbilical venous endothelial cells (HUVEC) were cultured
for 24 h at 37 degrees C with ketone bodies (acetoacetate, beta-
hydroxybutyrate). Acetoacetate, but not beta-hydroxybutyrate, caused
an increase in lipid peroxidation and growth inhibition in cultured
HUVEC. To determine whether ketone bodies generate oxygen radicals,
studies using cell-free buffered solution were performed. They showed
a significant superoxide dismutase (SOD) inhibitable reduction of
cytochrome C by acetoacetate, but not by beta-hydroxybutyrate,
suggesting the generation of superoxide anion radicals by
acetoacetate. Additional studies show that Fe2+ potentiates oxygen
radical generation by acetoacetate. Thus, elevated levels of ketone
body acetoacetate can generate oxygen radicals and cause lipid
peroxidation in endothelial cells, providing a possible mechanism for
the increased incidence of vascular disease in diabetes. PMID: 9870562

http://tinyurl.com/yoe4k5

--
Juhana

Uhm, and the observation in actual people here is... well, I don't see
it. Your study uses some less flexible stem cells in a test tube,
dumps some ketone bodies in, and makes a claim about vascular diseases
in diabetics. That's a big leap, before we even get to people with a
normal, functioning insulin metabolism. Crap science and if you can
read, you know it. Thanks for playing Jujube.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is called cherry picking.

Yeah. They might work on Head-From-Ass-picking instead. It's a more
drastic need.

On Mar 30, 8:29 pm, "Tunderbar" wrote:

It is called cherry picking.

More formally called "proof by selected instances" (the word "proof"
in this context being used in an ironic/sarcastic way).