Very discouraged; please help

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...
If you are not losing weight then you need to eat less and/or exercise
more.

I am getting the impression that everybody who believes that all you have
to do to get fit is (1) eat less, (2) exercise more, (3) count what you
eat, and (4) weigh yourself, also has a practice of (5) insulting the
intentions, motivations, intelligence, and mental health of anyone who
contradicts them with, like, actual facts.

Who is doing the insulting here? I mean, you posted the questions, we
posted our opinions, and you have a hissy fit. No one insulted your mental
health - but perhaps it is a factor here, as you clearly stated you have
been depressed, and you are very openly hostile.

And yes, most of us here believe that all you have to do to lose weight is
eat less and exercise more.


Sympathy from strangers isn't going to make you lose weight.

Who suggested it would? Why are you telling me this?

And weighing at least weekly is, in my opinion, important because that is
the objective you are trying to achieve.

My objective is to weigh myself? I think you mean to say that my
objective is to lose weight? My objectives are actually to be fit,
strong, healthy, comfortable, etc.

Well, are you? Are you fit, strong, healthy and comfortable? Because in
your initial post, you said your progress was slow and that you currently
weighed around 200lbs. If your objective is to be fit strong and healthy,
then your objective SHOULD be to lose weight. Because you won't be fit
strong or healthy at 200lbs.

What it says on the scale is just one way of measuring
just one aspect of what is actually a very complex lifestyle issue.

It's not complex. You are fat. And you are lazy. And... you are a victim
of mean people on usenet.

And I
have no intention of subjecting myself to that particular measure on a
weekly basis. Heck, I can gain ten pounds during a single menstrual
period. And a conventional scale does not reflect how much muscle I'm
building versus how much fat I'm losing.

If you were losing fat, your clothes would be getting looser.

If you don't measure how you are doing how would you know if what you are
doing is working?

It really does surprise me that so many people here are asking this
question, or making this point, or whatever. It really does surprise me.
How about if I *feel* better? I look better? I can lift more weight? I
can swim further? If my clothing size drops? If i jiggle less?

Did you mention feeling better? Looking better? Jiggling less? No. You
said you're very discouraged, and that your progress has been slow.

Does anybody reading this know of a better forum?

Feel free to go somewhere else.

On Dec 1, 12:18 pm, "Edna Pearl"
wrote:
Can you help?
Maybe ..

My progress just feels too slow, and I am discouraged.
Been there, wasnt fun Trust me, baby steps work over time. Dont be
discouraged. One doesnt put on the weight overnight (altho it sure
seemed like it for me! LoL!) and it doesnt want to come off overnight
(more like years) but its progress not perfection we seek!

Number one, I don't weigh myself, and I'm not going to.
A tape measure is good tho ... as well as clothes (you mentioned a
smaller pair of pants as a goal) and pictures dont lie either.

I don't count calories, and I'm not going to.
I don't count things in any aspect of my life.

Stubborn, but thats ok as long as its not a hurdle to get over. :-)
I think you KNOW you are on the right track, but just feel stuck at the
moment. Stuck is ok as long as its not turned into a rut.

I write for a living and have an sedentary, academic, artistic lifestyle,
..... I have large gardens (flower and vegetable) that my SO maintains
Hmm you say sedentary yet you seen active by your other descriptive
outdoors activities.
And what of your SO (significant other)? Do you do other other
outdoorsey stuff together?
Are they on the thinner side? Encouraging? Supportive? Its a big bonus
if they are.

I sleep 10-12 hours per day. Weird, I know, but I've always needed a lot of
sleep to function at my best. I believe I have a metabolism that is toward
the slow end of the spectrum.
Heh welcome to the menopausal midages. ;-)
Its really the quality not the quantity of sleep you get. Do you really
get a good nites sleep? Restive sleep is your body repairing time. Or
are you more like me that what with aches/pains I may be in bed for 10
hrs but I've only slept like 5-6 at the very most. I am constantly
sleep deprived.

I also have some physical injuries (atrophied right rhomboid, chronic
plantar fasciitis (sp?) in left foot, chronic subluxation of left hip, and,
at the moment, tendonitis in my left shoulder and elbow that has been there
for MONTHS and just WON'T get better). I am in fairly constant pain, which
interrupts my sleep.

(Oh you answered the sleep thing there...)
Heh you sound kind of outta whack there..ever been to a chiropractor?
Or consider acupuncture?
Tendonitis is usually a repetative stress injury - look at what may be
causing it?
Could also be even the way you sleep on that shoulder that stops it
from repairing itself.

I have adhered to this WOE pretty closely since mid-October. My
butt shrank
a little, immediately. My waist has not budged. Not BUDGED. My next goal
is to get into a pair of size 14 technical pants I have hanging in my
closet, and I am NO CLOSER than I was at the end of October.

Usually one of the first places we gain weight is the last to come off.
Persist.
Its only been like what fourfive weeks since the end of October? Give
yrself a break.
I think the foods sound/look ok. Based on the food pyramid guidelines?
Why not exchange a bit around like eating more veggies instead of
fruits or grains? More fiber can be like a secret fatloss weapon to
some poeple, so worth a try. Try taking out one thing (portion) a day
on slowmo days and adding one more one really active days. I adher to
the thinking that just as your body adapts to exercising (you need to
keep challenging yourself) if you eat the same old day in day out I
think our bodies adapt quite nicely to what you feed it and stop going
in the direction we want to see it go.


It seems to me that I should be seeing more results than I am.
I'm still tired and fat, and I still have low energy
..
But hey youve come a long way baby! See the glass half full or half
empty? You know postive thinking does alot.
Look at how much you have changed so far in really such a short time
(when one looks at the BIG picture you know?)
Think about where you want to be a year from now. The year will go by
anyway, so make some goals along the way.

You mentioned Kirsta's website and altho she rightly says 'diets' dont
work (the stupid kind ya know) altho she does give it up to 'Dieting
101' in her foods section.
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=29
I think you would do allright to investigate the South
Beach/Mediteranian diets you mentioned because they are basically a
balanced way of eating - not far from where you are now actually. Maybe
they would just give you more variety and more complex meals to enjoy.
Check out also http://www.bodyforlife.com (under foods) if you havent
already and another good site to read is the Hussman website at:
http://www.hussmanfitness.org/ it has a wealth of info on it.

Hope this helps - not everyone on these boards are sharks waiting to
attack ;-)


joanne

You dont have to count calories. Your diet seems to conform with 2005
USDA Food Pyramid. It seems balanced. 2005 USDA Food Pyramid does not
count calories. It is based on servings of each food you eat. Perhaps
you can visit mypyramid.gov and valiadte the number of portions you are
eating. On the surface everything indcates that you are consuming about
1,800 calories per day.
My other suggestion is to evaluate your fruits. They should have low
Glycemic Index. Best fruits are wild blue berries and apples. Next you
should examine your vegetables. Try to avoid starchy vegetables such as
potatoes, peas, parsnip.
The next thing comes is how many times per day you eat. It is not clear
from your posting. For any weight loss program, you should eat three
times a day (brekfast, lunch and dinner). These meals should be about
three hours apart. In between meals you should have a snack.
One other thing that is not clear is the amount of fats oils. You need
about 5 teaspoons of plant oil such as Canola oil. Do not skip on fats.
You want to avoid bad fats (Transfats and saturated fats) but you do
need fats.
One other thing you dont mention is the total amount of fluid. Divide
your weith in pounds by 2. It gives the number of ounces of fluid you
should intake. Total fluids of course include water at about 50 deg F,
coffe, tea, milk, sugar free gingerale.
You are doing well. And you will do well. Stick to your diet and
exercise about 30 minutes a day 5 days a week. The exercise does not
have to be resistance or cardio. Walking, and dancing are good.
Good luck and best wishes
Yogi
www.IndiaCurry.com

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Let me share just a bit of my experience. I, too, had "blossomed" to 230
plus pounds. On May 12, 2006, it became imperative for health reasons to
lose weight. The first 30 pounds came off quickly for me, too.

We seem to share some magic numbers, here :-)

But I hit a
stall at 195, even though I was careful about what I ate, and had no junk
of
any kind in my diet.
I was frustrated for a while,

Do you happen to recall how long this plateau lasted?

It lasted about a month. I was beginning to think things would never
change. But I also knew I couldn't give up, because I had to get my blood
pressure under control. It had gotten way out of hand.


but I realized that nothing was going to
change unless I changed what I was doing. So, as much as it pained me, I
did start to count calories. I did become picky about portion sizes
instead
of just guessing. I didn't set a limit for how many calories per day I
would eat--just kept track. I found out that I was eating more than I
thought I was. And the weight started coming off again--40+ more pounds
so
far.

Congratulations!

Thanks. =c)


I don't guess my portion sizes. Some things are easy because I eat them
regularly and can just judge the portion in relation to the size of my
hand or my plate or whatever, but, when in doubt, I measure with a scale
or a measuring cup, as appropriate.

That's a good thing. I found I was far too lenient on myself with some
"portions."


I appear to have confused a lot of people here by saying I don't count
calories. As you can see from my post, I do "count" portions (I actually
check them off on a list on the fridge), and given a basic awareness of
how many calories are in what and even resort to a calorie book if I've
eaten a novel food, it would be easy to add up the calories at the end of
the day. It's just that doesn't tell me anything I don't already know. So
I'm not in a position to compare calorie counts with you. If somebody
wanted to compare calorie counts with me, it would be a very simple matter
to get an average from the portion list I already posted. Sure, I'll get
more calories from a given portion of vegetables if I eat a carrot rather
than a stick of celery, but I know that, and it's simple to make a mental
adjustment to eat my next meal accordingly. This is exactly what Weight
Watchers used to do (prolly still does, I dunno), and a lot of other diet
programs, too, that rely on "points," "exchanges," "portions," whatever.

That makes sense to me. It isn't necessarily the calories that are
important--it's the awareness of what and how much you eat. It sounds like
you have that down quite well.


Does *everybody* on this ng count calories only? Surely there is somebody
else here who "counts" portions?

Don't the majority of Weight Watchers folks just count portions?


FWIW, I've done the math enough times in my life to know that I'm eating
between 1100 and 1600 calories a day when I eat on this routine of
portions, and I deliberately vary that amount within that range. (Do we
need to get into *why* I vary the amount? Surely somebody else here can
explain that better than I can. :-)

smile I sense frustration here.


I think that my problem with calorie counting in the past was that it set
me
up to fail--because I set an artificial limit, then beat myself up if I
didn't keep to that limit. Now, my relationship with calories is just
informational. If I hit a plateau, I can look to see if it could
possibly
be my food intake. I have the information to make adjustments if I need
to.

That's really good insight: "informational." That's how I look at my
checklist of portions, as information. I have a tendency to put the first
priority on making sure I get enough fruits and veggies. I also tend to
try to get extra protein from vegetable, fruits, and grains, before I even
think about the meat category. Then the dairy and the meat categories
tend to fall into place by themselves.

I have a friend who is a a "professional dieter." She has tried them all.
I think she has spent most of her life "dieting." She is on a high
protein type diet right now, and has recommended articles to read--which I
read just because she likes to talk about them. (And I like to put in my
opinion about the importance of a balanced diet) When I was stuck at 195, I
read an article that talked about how a "shock" of high protein sometimes
kicks one loose from a plateau they are stuck on. It recommended 1 week of
hight protein before going back to normal, well-balanced eating. So I tried
it, and it worked for me. My downward progress has been steady since then.
I don't know if it would work for anyone else, but it did work for me.


One thing I am very careful about is breakfast. I eat it every day, no
matter what. I have found that if I eat a decent breakfast, I am not
starving and in need of munchies when I come home from work in the
afternoon.

It really does seem to help me stay less hungry during the day if I eat a
lot of protein in my breakfast. By the same token, it does *not* work for
me to try to "save up" calories so I can splurge on dinner.

No kidding! I absolutely agree!


Another thing I monitor closely is any after-dinner snacking. I don't
eat
within a couple of hours of going to bed.

Okay, dirty little secret here :-) I do, in fact, have a couple of cups
of Lipton Cream of Chicken Cup-A-Soup before I go to bed, for a total of
two carb portions, 120 calories. It seems to settle my stomach and help
me sleep better -- probably just because it's a relaxing bedtime ritual.
I find it hard to imagine that I am sabotaging myself by saving a couple
of carb portions for these empty calories before bed. Can it be?

Oh, I don't think so. A cup of warm milk would have the same number of
calories, and that is a well-known recommendation to help one sleep.


I try to keep my activity level high. I like to walk--fast. I go to
Curves
3 times a week. In the summer, I swam 4 days a week. I have a recumbent
exercise cycle that I use when I just can't get outside to exercise.

I am wondering whether I am physically able to do this much. I doubt it.
I have to rest my shoulder for days between swims, for example. I've been
trying to build up my endurance since I was sick, but it's slow going.
Please note that I have really only been trying to stay on a regimen for
about six weeks now. I *have* made good strength gains with lifting. I'm
pretty knowledgeable about lifting, having done it since I was a ballet
student decades ago. (I used to be the only chick in the gym, back in the
day. :-) So I have no complaints so far with how I'm maximizing my
results with muscle-building and strength training. I could do better if
I didn't have to work around my (minor) injuries, but couldn't we all do
"better"? :-) I'm not complaining.

It is pretty amazing how fast one can build strength, isn't it? I'm
wondering, have you ever talked to anyone knowledgeable, such as a physical
therapist, on what types of exercise would best strengthen or improve the
areas that give you the most problems? There have got to be forms of
exercise that would help, rather than your trying to work around them all
the time.



Other than that, I am patient with myself. That has not always been the
case.

Amen. I hear you.

I wish you well, Edna, and hope you find your solution. I know you will
if
you keep looking for it.

Thanks, Teach. :-) And congratulations again on your weight loss. I'll
bet you're feeling pretty good at this point, or you wouldn't have such a
beautiful work-out schedule. Success is its own reward, right?

I am feeling so much better than I was last May. That was a very scary time
for me. You're right, success is its own reward. And success begets
success. You keep up your good work, too, Edna. Hard work is never in
vain.

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...
If you are not losing weight then you need to eat less and/or exercise
more.

I am getting the impression that everybody who believes that all you have
to do to get fit is (1) eat less, (2) exercise more, (3) count what you
eat, and (4) weigh yourself, also has a practice of (5) insulting the
intentions, motivations, intelligence, and mental health of anyone who
contradicts them with, like, actual facts.

Sympathy from strangers isn't going to make you lose weight.

Who suggested it would? Why are you telling me this?

And weighing at least weekly is, in my opinion, important because that is
the objective you are trying to achieve.

My objective is to weigh myself? I think you mean to say that my
objective is to lose weight? My objectives are actually to be fit,
strong, healthy, comfortable, etc. What it says on the scale is just one
way of measuring just one aspect of what is actually a very complex
lifestyle issue. And I have no intention of subjecting myself to that
particular measure on a weekly basis.

I agree that weight is just one measue of your ongoing progress. Sometimes
weighing yourself can be self-defeating, if the numbers don't reflect the
hard work you have done. For a long time, the only thing I measured was my
blood pressure, because I didn't want to discourage myself with that silly
box on the floor.

Heck, I can gain ten pounds during a single menstrual period.
And a conventional scale does not reflect how much muscle I'm building
versus how much fat I'm losing.

If you don't measure how you are doing how would you know if what you are
doing is working?

It really does surprise me that so many people here are asking this
question, or making this point, or whatever. It really does surprise me.
How about if I *feel* better? I look better? I can lift more weight? I
can swim further? If my clothing size drops? If i jiggle less?

Very true. We need to have a balanced picture. Weight is just one of the
many parts of the picture.

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
If you honestly cannot understand why I was honestly upset by that post,
then I don't know what to say. Maybe we're from different planets or
something. If you don't like profanity, I apologize, I'm used to seeing
and using a lot of it here on Usenet and thought I had seen it used here
at asd. Yes, I lost my temper, but I continue to believe her post was out
of line and unsupportive. If you call that kind of behavior "polite,"
then, well, I don't know what to say.


For what it's worth, I agree. It was nasty and not supportive at all, and I
don't blame you for being upset. Obviously you were feeling low when you
wrote the message and what she wrote wasn't helpful at all.


Jen

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
Can you help?

My progress just feels too slow, and I am discouraged.


There is something else that I've heard can help Exercise is important, as
you know, but changing it every 6 weeks or so is supposed to be just as
important. It can just be a matter of bike riding faster, but less
distance, or slower and further etc. Or changing the type of exercise
entirely, eg, fast walking instead of bike riding, etc. Also to have a
break from serious exercise for a week or so, is also supposed to help get
past the plateau.

Hope that helps


Jen

"determined" wrote in message
...

Perhaps you could invest in a heart rate monitor. It will give you a
better idea what your heart rate is during these exercises, and a better
estimate of how many calories you are burning.

A better, more effective way is to use a perceived exertion scale
http://exercise.about.com/od/cardiow...d+heart%20rate



Jen

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...

Many people weigh once a week or so, but you have to weigh yourself to
check your progress. Not weighing yourself otherwise becomes denial.

I don't agree with this. There are plenty of more meaningful ways to
check progress than the number on a scale, unless you only count the
numbers on the scale as progress, by definition, so to speak. Clothing
size, the amount of weight you can lift, the distance you can swim, etc.,
are meaningful, functional measures of progress. A number on a scale is
just an annoying social construct, to me.

Also the scales don't take into account the fact that muscle weighs more
than fat. You can exercise a lot of the fat away and get a lot more muscle
(which is excellent) but the scales may still say you're the same weight,
or even more.

Jen

"determined" wrote in message
. ..

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...
If you are not losing weight then you need to eat less and/or exercise
more.

I am getting the impression that everybody who believes that all you have
to do to get fit is (1) eat less, (2) exercise more, (3) count what you
eat, and (4) weigh yourself, also has a practice of (5) insulting the
intentions, motivations, intelligence, and mental health of anyone who
contradicts them with, like, actual facts.

Who is doing the insulting here? I mean, you posted the questions, we
posted our opinions, and you have a hissy fit. No one insulted your
mental health - but perhaps it is a factor here, as you clearly stated you
have been depressed, and you are very openly hostile.

Only after you were nasty to her, so she lashed out.


Well, are you? Are you fit, strong, healthy and comfortable?


Umm, that's why she wrote the post!


Because in
your initial post, you said your progress was slow and that you currently
weighed around 200lbs. If your objective is to be fit strong and healthy,
then your objective SHOULD be to lose weight.

Not necessarily, just lose fat


It's not complex. You are fat. And you are lazy.

How can you say that when she kayaks, rides a bike, hikes, swims etc.

And I
have no intention of subjecting myself to that particular measure on a
weekly basis. Heck, I can gain ten pounds during a single menstrual
period. And a conventional scale does not reflect how much muscle I'm
building versus how much fat I'm losing.

If you were losing fat, your clothes would be getting looser.

She knows, and has said that's one way she prefers to measure success.


If you don't measure how you are doing how would you know if what you
are
doing is working?

It really does surprise me that so many people here are asking this
question, or making this point, or whatever. It really does surprise me.
How about if I *feel* better? I look better? I can lift more weight? I
can swim further? If my clothing size drops? If i jiggle less?

Did you mention feeling better? Looking better? Jiggling less? No. You
said you're very discouraged, and that your progress has been slow.

I think you're missing the point here. Maybe you need to reread AGAIN.
She's saying this would be a better measure of success, not that she has
reached success.



Jen