Low carb and endurance running -- results of my experiment

"MU" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:42:00 GMT, Doug Freese wrote:

Donovan, this is cross posted to low carb folks. To agree with us is
tantamount to their diet is crock of ****. Save you energy, the LC
folks
are like those still believing in the flat earth theory.

What exactly do you find so distasteful and invalid about low carb
dieting?
Be specific.

Frankly it's a fad built on half truths to make money. Yes you lose
weight but you can lose weight with any eating regimen that restricts
calories. LC makes much about GI and GL as it's base which is smoke
mirrors. Exercise, eat balanced, avoid simple carbs like candy etc. use
some caloric control and you will lose weight.

My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do
endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your
gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating
regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me
it is not healthy.

"MU" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:42:00 GMT, Doug Freese wrote:

Donovan, this is cross posted to low carb folks. To agree with us is
tantamount to their diet is crock of ****. Save you energy, the LC
folks
are like those still believing in the flat earth theory.

What exactly do you find so distasteful and invalid about low carb
dieting?
Be specific.

Frankly it's a fad built on half truths to make money. Yes you lose
weight but you can lose weight with any eating regimen that restricts
calories. LC makes much about GI and GL as it's base which is smoke
mirrors. Exercise, eat balanced, avoid simple carbs like candy etc. use
some caloric control and you will lose weight.

My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do
endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your
gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating
regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me
it is not healthy.

Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ...
In article , jt wrote:
On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474
wrote:

In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote:
Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...
In article , PlacidBull
wrote:
Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.


The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should
avoid
high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is
*always*
high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is

I used to need glycogen to run also!

You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your
primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts.

Exactly.

I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely
tired.

I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not
going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run.

I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired.

Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs
were "as good as new".

Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90
minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body
adapting I certainly can now.

And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to
running.

Again, I ran at low intensity.

That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest
of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance
event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your
body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the
kindling.

Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are
fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all.


I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway).

If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong.

What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider
anything?


Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet
really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as
you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your
training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do
fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any
form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen,
particulary, I would think, for larger runners.

If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted
carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an
individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost
exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of
doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in
individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other
variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all
individuals.

Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you
eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt
to keep stores of it available.

- Tony

Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ...
In article , jt wrote:
On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474
wrote:

In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote:
Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...
In article , PlacidBull
wrote:
Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.


The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should
avoid
high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is
*always*
high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is

I used to need glycogen to run also!

You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your
primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts.

Exactly.

I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely
tired.

I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not
going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run.

I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired.

Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs
were "as good as new".

Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90
minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body
adapting I certainly can now.

And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to
running.

Again, I ran at low intensity.

That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest
of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance
event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your
body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the
kindling.

Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are
fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all.


I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway).

If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong.

What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider
anything?


Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet
really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as
you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your
training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do
fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any
form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen,
particulary, I would think, for larger runners.

If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted
carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an
individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost
exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of
doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in
individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other
variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all
individuals.

Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you
eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt
to keep stores of it available.

- Tony

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:03:41 GMT, "Tony"
wrote:

Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ...
In article , jt wrote:
On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474
wrote:

In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote:
Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...
In article , PlacidBull
wrote:
Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.


The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should
avoid
high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is
*always*
high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is

I used to need glycogen to run also!

You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your
primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts.

Exactly.

I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely
tired.

I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not
going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run.

I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired.

Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs
were "as good as new".

Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90
minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body
adapting I certainly can now.

And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to
running.

Again, I ran at low intensity.

That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest
of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance
event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your
body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the
kindling.

Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are
fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all.


I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway).

If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong.

What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider
anything?


No, simply reducing carbs in not going to increase endurance. Perhaps
you have lost weight or some other factor in your diet as changed but
carbs is not the answer.

Simply running for 30 mins on a non-low carb diet does not explain why
you were getting tired because I am willing to bet 99% plus serious
marathoners are not on a low carb diet.

It could be on your old diet you were not getting sufficient iron,
protein or other vitamins and minerals.

Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet
really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as
you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your
training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do
fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any
form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen,
particulary, I would think, for larger runners.

If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted
carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an
individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost
exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of
doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in
individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other
variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all
individuals.

I would say if someone is very fit aerobically than obviously it will
prevent them from going into an anaerobic state. Obviously going at a
slow pace does not hurt either.


Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you
eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt
to keep stores of it available.

- Tony

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:03:41 GMT, "Tony"
wrote:

Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ...
In article , jt wrote:
On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474
wrote:

In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote:
Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...
In article , PlacidBull
wrote:
Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.


The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should
avoid
high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is
*always*
high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is

I used to need glycogen to run also!

You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your
primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts.

Exactly.

I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely
tired.

I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not
going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run.

I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired.

Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs
were "as good as new".

Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90
minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body
adapting I certainly can now.

And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to
running.

Again, I ran at low intensity.

That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest
of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance
event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your
body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the
kindling.

Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are
fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all.


I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway).

If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong.

What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider
anything?


No, simply reducing carbs in not going to increase endurance. Perhaps
you have lost weight or some other factor in your diet as changed but
carbs is not the answer.

Simply running for 30 mins on a non-low carb diet does not explain why
you were getting tired because I am willing to bet 99% plus serious
marathoners are not on a low carb diet.

It could be on your old diet you were not getting sufficient iron,
protein or other vitamins and minerals.

Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet
really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as
you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your
training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do
fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any
form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen,
particulary, I would think, for larger runners.

If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted
carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an
individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost
exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of
doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in
individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other
variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all
individuals.

I would say if someone is very fit aerobically than obviously it will
prevent them from going into an anaerobic state. Obviously going at a
slow pace does not hurt either.


Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you
eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt
to keep stores of it available.

- Tony

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:03:41 GMT, "Tony"
wrote:

Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ...
In article , jt wrote:
On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474
wrote:

In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote:
Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...
In article , PlacidBull
wrote:
Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.


The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should
avoid
high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is
*always*
high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is

I used to need glycogen to run also!

You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your
primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts.

Exactly.

I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely
tired.

I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not
going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run.

I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired.

Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs
were "as good as new".

Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90
minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body
adapting I certainly can now.

And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to
running.

Again, I ran at low intensity.

That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest
of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance
event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your
body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the
kindling.

Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are
fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all.


I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway).

If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong.

What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider
anything?


No, simply reducing carbs in not going to increase endurance. Perhaps
you have lost weight or some other factor in your diet as changed but
carbs is not the answer.

Simply running for 30 mins on a non-low carb diet does not explain why
you were getting tired because I am willing to bet 99% plus serious
marathoners are not on a low carb diet.

It could be on your old diet you were not getting sufficient iron,
protein or other vitamins and minerals.

Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet
really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as
you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your
training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do
fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any
form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen,
particulary, I would think, for larger runners.

If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted
carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an
individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost
exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of
doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in
individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other
variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all
individuals.

I would say if someone is very fit aerobically than obviously it will
prevent them from going into an anaerobic state. Obviously going at a
slow pace does not hurt either.


Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you
eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt
to keep stores of it available.

- Tony

On 18 Sep 2004 18:39:34 GMT, Ignoramus7876
wrote:

In article , Doug Freese wrote:
My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do
endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your
gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating
regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me
it is not healthy.

Doug, what I am trying to demonstrate is that my body does not reject
LC as "insufficient fuel". To do it in a measurable way, I am
considering running a half marathon, all the while without deviating
from my "paleo diet". In fact, you guys got me so worked up that I
will very likely go to the half marathon next week.

Maybe one day I will run a full marathon, like one poster to
alt.support.diet.low-carb did:

No one is saying it can't be done. However if that same individual
was not on a LC diet they would be able to run farther faster.

On 18 Sep 2004 18:39:34 GMT, Ignoramus7876
wrote:

In article , Doug Freese wrote:
My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do
endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your
gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating
regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me
it is not healthy.

Doug, what I am trying to demonstrate is that my body does not reject
LC as "insufficient fuel". To do it in a measurable way, I am
considering running a half marathon, all the while without deviating
from my "paleo diet". In fact, you guys got me so worked up that I
will very likely go to the half marathon next week.

Maybe one day I will run a full marathon, like one poster to
alt.support.diet.low-carb did:

No one is saying it can't be done. However if that same individual
was not on a LC diet they would be able to run farther faster.

On 18 Sep 2004 18:39:34 GMT, Ignoramus7876
wrote:

In article , Doug Freese wrote:
My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do
endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your
gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating
regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me
it is not healthy.

Doug, what I am trying to demonstrate is that my body does not reject
LC as "insufficient fuel". To do it in a measurable way, I am
considering running a half marathon, all the while without deviating
from my "paleo diet". In fact, you guys got me so worked up that I
will very likely go to the half marathon next week.

Maybe one day I will run a full marathon, like one poster to
alt.support.diet.low-carb did:

No one is saying it can't be done. However if that same individual
was not on a LC diet they would be able to run farther faster.