disappointment

Thank you so much saffire, your good words & support mean allot to me.
Yes i am female & like you said it's maybe water. God Bless you & by the
way you look great on your pictures. Wasn't easy job to do but you did
it & you deserve applause. That's ok if someone of the group try to
insulted me it's his opinion. Thanks again.
God Bless.
Toni.

Carol, thanks i ignored him. He can post what ever he thinks don't
bother me.
Toni.

Hi Lexin, yes i am female & yes i eat those bars of carb solution or low
carb bars as slim fast or other brand. Thanks for your kind words i will
continue.
Toni.

In article ,
(toni) wrote:

Thank you so much saffire, your good words & support mean allot to me.
Yes i am female & like you said it's maybe water. God Bless you & by the
way you look great on your pictures. Wasn't easy job to do but you did
it & you deserve applause. That's ok if someone of the group try to
insulted me it's his opinion. Thanks again.
God Bless.
Toni.





The water weight swing is something you just gotta get used to. It's one
of the reasons I recommend only "counting" your weigh-ins only once a
month.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Lictor wrote:
:: +/- 4 pounds is a normal variation of your weight. People who
:: maintain a constant weight one day to the next just do not exist;
:: they just maintain an average weight. And when you're losing weight,
:: you just maintain an average weight loss... As others said, there
:: are a lot of factors that will cause these small variations : water
:: level, bowel content, bladder content... But the *only* important
:: item when you're losing weight is how much body fat you are losing.
:: Losing water is actually not a good idea, dehydratation never is,
:: losing muscles is a no-no...

True.

:: Actually, during the first week of most diet, you are losing lots of
:: water, because dehydratation often occurs. Weight loss from water is
:: usually around 4-6 pounds. After that first week, the body often
:: catches up and gets back the water it lacked (which is a GOOD
:: thing!). Remember that lost water is NOT real weight loss, it's
:: actually harmfull weight loss.

Losing water is weight loss and it is real...it is just not fat loss, which
is the real goal.

So, you didn't gain any weight back,
:: it's just that the previous week loss was slightly over-estimated
:: because of probable dehydratation.

Very likely.

:: That's why you should not weight yourself that often.

Nonsense. There is nothing wrong with weighing once a day in the morning.
By doing so, one can understand how scale weight can change from day-to-day.
I find that very useful to know and understand. Being ignorance helps no
one.

Just step on
:: that scale once a week at the beginning, or even a couple of times a
:: month when you start losing weight more slowly. That way, you get a
:: reading for average weight loss, which is the only important value
:: you need anyway.

Why?

:: Otherwise, you will get discouraged everytime your
:: balance records these small biological weight variations.

Armed with appropriate information, one does not have to be discouraged.

Or you
:: will try to make useless correlations about what you ate and
:: micro-variations of your weight the next day (you can over-eat and
:: still lose weight if you didn't drink enough or just had a large
:: bowel movement).

Understanding that they are useless is meaningful.

For the same reason, you should use a good old low
:: precision scale, not the recent kinds that pretend to measure your
:: weight down to the single gram - they're useless and gets you into
:: thinking non-rationnally.

Not if you aren't prone to being irrational.

::
:: Here a hint : 1 kg (2.2 pounds) of fat is 9000 calories. In your
:: body, it's mixed with some water, so you can roughly estimate that 1
:: kg of body fat is 7000ish calories. That's more than 3000 calories
:: per pound (conservative estimation).
:: So, to take these 4 pounds in 4 days, you would have to have eaten
:: an extra 3000 calories a day. That's quite a bunch! Unless you had a
:: major binge eating crisis, I doubt you could have managed that...
:: So, it's probably only regular day to day variation. By the same
:: reasonning, you will never magically lose 4 pounds of fat in a
:: couple of days...
::
:: PS: You still have to stay moderated with all the food you take,
:: even when doing Atkins. There is no magical way to make your body
:: ignore any calorie you put into it. If you somehow manage to eat
:: 5000 calories of fat, and only fat, in a day, you WILL gain weight.

Well, it depends on how much you eat on the surrounding days. I had 5000
calorie days and still managed to lose weight over a 3-day period.

:: The only thing Atkins achieves by removing carbs is to force your
:: body into Ketosis, and a side-effect of Ketosis is that it reduces
:: (or even cancel) hunger.

I've never heard of cancelled hunger. Also, I'm not a believe that ketosis
reduces appetite. Absense of BG swings surely does, however.

So, it's easier to eat less, and that's how
:: the weight loss is achieved. But if you have boulimia, or anything
:: like that which causes you to completely ignore hunger signals, it
:: won't work - only psychological help (and medication) can work in
:: such cases...
::
:: "toni" wrote in message
:: ...
::: I am very disappointed today after i weight my self. I am on my
::: fourth week of my Atkins diet Last week on Friday my weight was 10
::: pounds loss & today i went up 4 pounds, How that can be??? Same
::: scale same carb grams intake. What can cause that??? didn't even
::: want to continue dieting. I am so discouraged. Please help me with
::: your advise.
::: Toni.

Ignoramus14239 wrote:
:: Roger, it has been my anecdotal experience on alt.support.diet, that
:: those who are not able to handle daily weighting are those who are
:: unable to sustain weight loss or maintain their weight. Usually they
:: end up dropping out of the newsgroup and regain a lot of weight. All
:: the time they moan and groan how it is not their fault.

Interesting....I haven't been paying attention to that. I don't see how one
can maintain with daily feedback -- assuming you're someone with a life-long
weight problem, like me.

::
:: Some people do not _need_ daily weighting.

I agree. Such as those who have no weight problems. But as a naturally fat
person, I know that for me, when I don't stand on the scale for long
periods of time, it means that I'm not paying attention to my weight.
Hence, I stand on the scale and deal with what it tells me. The good thing
for me is that I don't have to freak how about it. Usually, for me, an
increase of more than a pound or two only results after I've had significant
carbs. So I expect that. If I see an increase otherwise, then I start
thinking about what I'm doing in terms of eating and exercise. I then make
adjustments.

:: Those are not the ones I
:: was referring to. I am referring to ones who tend to freak out when
:: they see an unexpected weight change.

I see....well, I've learned to expect the unexpected, but fortunately, that
doesn't happen much.

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Losing water is weight loss and it is real...it is just not fat loss,
which
is the real goal.

You're splitting hairs I think it's important to make the distinction,
because you have many miracle pills (which are actually heavy duty
diuretics) which attempt to sell water loss as significant weight loss...

:: That's why you should not weight yourself that often.

Nonsense. There is nothing wrong with weighing once a day in the morning.
By doing so, one can understand how scale weight can change from
day-to-day.
I find that very useful to know and understand. Being ignorance helps no
one.

Agreed and disagreed
Yes, it wont hurt per se. Yes, it's educating. Once you're educated, there
is little point in continuing the daily scaling though.
The problem is that losing weight is an activity that often comes with a lot
of magical and irrationnal thinking. Otherwise you wouldn't have this many
miracle this and wonder that on the market. I mean, people do actually buy
pills that will make them grow muscles or drop weight while sleeping.
Even with people who are rather rationnal, there is still some fixation on
magic stuff. Like a magic number on the scale, and being even half a pound
over it will be catastrophic (and often trigger bingeing or dropping the
diet altogether). People who have anxiety problems also tend to freak out
when they get a "bad" reading. Other people build a kind of manic
relationship with their scale. You think that weighting once a day is fine,
and I agree for most people. But how about weighted twice a day? After every
meal? After every snack or exercise? That's actually a behaviour you will
see in many people with boulimia and anorexia for instance.
In these cases, explaining stuff might not be enough to ease the feeling. I
don't know if you have dealt with people under a panick attack for instance,
but rationnal thinking just doesn't work there. That's cases where it
actually hurt. In these cases you can make weighting an activity you do only
once a week, or less, eventually in your doctor's office instead of home.
Then, the doctor is there to explain stuff and dedramatize them.

Just step on
:: that scale once a week at the beginning, or even a couple of times a
:: month when you start losing weight more slowly. That way, you get a
:: reading for average weight loss, which is the only important value
:: you need anyway.

Why?

Because your weight is an average value. You never aim for a given weight,
you aim for a weight range. The first goal is unrealistic, since weight
jumps all the time. You seem to understand this, and this is good for you
and means you have gotten rid of a lot of the bull**** that can go around.
But that's far from being the general rule. For a good part of the dieting
population, the Scale is some kind of judge that determines whether they're
a worthy human being or not by displaying some kind of magic number.
Here is a simple test : have you given a name to your scale? I guess not.
Well, I know quite a few people who do. Under these conditions, do you think
they would interpret whatever values gets out of the scale in a rationnal
and sane way?
One of the first step of many weight related cognitive therapy is actually
to get the patient away from her scale.

:: Otherwise, you will get discouraged everytime your
:: balance records these small biological weight variations.

Armed with appropriate information, one does not have to be discouraged.

Yes, one *should not* be discouraged. So, you can provide the information,
and that's a good thing. But sometimes it's not enough, because human beings
have a tendency to ignore shoulds. That's where little comportemental
"tricks" can work without too much damage. Once the twisted relationship
with weighting is broken, the appropriate information is still there for the
brain to use...

Or you
:: will try to make useless correlations about what you ate and
:: micro-variations of your weight the next day (you can over-eat and
:: still lose weight if you didn't drink enough or just had a large
:: bowel movement).

Understanding that they are useless is meaningful.

Again, agreed, but this is an understanding many people do not want. Many
prefer to think it's that single nut (if they're fat free) or that single
real sugar in their coffee (if they're carb free) that caused all that
weight gain, rather than the couple of pounds of fat free yogourt they
swallow daily to resist the temptation of that single nut/sugar. I mean, if
you read an history of diets (which I recommend, great fun in a scary kind
of way), you might notice that the whole business has not really run on
rationnal thinking.

Well, it depends on how much you eat on the surrounding days. I had 5000
calorie days and still managed to lose weight over a 3-day period.

True, my mistake for not mentionning averages, physical activities and the
other parameters. Let's say that, with all the rest being equal, an extra
calorie is still an extra calorie and will have the impact on your weight of
an extra calorie, whatever the source.

I've never heard of cancelled hunger. Also, I'm not a believe that
ketosis
reduces appetite. Absense of BG swings surely does, however.

Yet ketosis does this. That's what allows people to fast for weeks, after
the first few days, the hunger settles back to a reasonnable level.
Otherwise, it would be totally unbearable to fast for that long. Only the
first few days have intense hunger, because ketosis isn't working fully. If
you think about it, this makes sense. Ketosis is a starvation process, it's
only triggered when you're not getting enough carbs (which is analysed as
starvation by your brain). At first, it's meaningfull to send a strong
hunger signal to ask for food, with increasing urgency as the starvation
goes on. But after a while, the conscious brain is pretty well aware that no
food is available and that you should get some. Then, hunger only gets in
the way. It generates anxiety, pain and is quite debillitating, making
getting food in the first place harder. I guess our ancestors who didn't
respond to ketosis by suppressing their hunger died a long while ago because
they were lying on the ground with hunger induced stomach cramps while the
rest of us were hunting...
BG = Blood Glucose? As for BG, it's indeed one of the thing that your brain
monitors to trigger hunger, and yes, speed of change is one parameter.
Though it's not the only one, there are a lot of parameters that are
computed into your brain before the "hungry" light is switched on. Besides,
people react differently to low blood sugar. For instance, hypoglycemia
makes me feel nauseous, and the last thing I will think about then is about
eating. That's something some people with diabete experience as well, deep
hypoglycemia often make them refuse to eat anything.
There are plenty of people who eat whatever they want and yet stay slim, so
I guess that natural regulation (hunger, appetite, fullfillment) can work
correctly in a pretty wide spectrum of diets and with varying levels of
blood sugar and ketosis, either low carb/high fat (western world, innuits)
or high carb/low fat (Asia, Africa) or even high fat/high carb (part of
Africa)...

A good alternative to weighing monthly or biweekly that provides more
feedback, is to weigh daily, record the weight in excel, and keep a
moving average weight, averaged for the last 7 days. That's what I do.
A moving average, by definition, averages out random weight swings.

That's what www.weightcommander.com does. It's a great program, my husband and
I get a kick out of charting our loss, and beating it's predictions. There has
been twice where my moving average flatlined, and it inspired me to kick my
butt into gear. (more water, exercise, etc.)

LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/216/140
& hubby- 6' 310/233/180

Ignoramus14239 wrote:
:: In article , Roger
:: Zoul wrote:
::: Ignoramus14239 wrote:
::::: Roger, it has been my anecdotal experience on alt.support.diet,
::::: that those who are not able to handle daily weighting are those
::::: who are unable to sustain weight loss or maintain their weight.
::::: Usually they end up dropping out of the newsgroup and regain a
::::: lot of weight. All the time they moan and groan how it is not
::::: their fault.
:::
::: Interesting....I haven't been paying attention to that. I don't
::: see how one can maintain with daily feedback -- assuming you're
::: someone with a life-long weight problem, like me.
::
:: Are you sure that you meant what you said?
::

Nope, I didn't mean what i wrote. I should have said "I don't see how one
can maintain without daily feedback ..." But I guess weekly feedback could
work for some, but that seems to make it too easy to just stop standing on
the scale altogether.

toni wrote:

I am very disappointed today after i weight my self. I am on my fourth
week of my Atkins diet Last week on Friday my weight was 10 pounds loss

Sure, success in the real world sucks. It's a great excuse to quit.
If you like hurting yourself without reason anyways. HEY! Wake up!
Stop hurting yourself this instant!

& today i went up 4 pounds, How that can be?

Four pounds of water swing doesn't sound much to me. Mine is six.

What can cause that?

Get OFF the fricken scale. Simple as that. Seriously. Water swing is
natural and it has happened your entire life. If you have to put
yourself through an emotional rollercoaster every time you have a
perfectly normal sucessfull experience then the cure is simple. Do
not step on the scale in the first place.

didn't even want to continue
dieting. I am so discouraged. Please help me with your advise.

Do not use the scale as a weapon to hurt yourself. Stop that this
instant. Do not deny the reality of actual loss in the real world
by playing games that normal successfull water bounce is a problem.
Stop that this instant.

Which do you really want? Wallow in pity over the fact that you
are successfull, or enjoy the actual reality of your success? No,
seriously. Which of those do you really want? Right. Check. So
DO that then.