So, when do you start to feel thinner?

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:09:35 GMT, Luna
wrote:

Officially 33 pounds down from when I started low-carb and Curves, 46
pounds down from my highest ever weight. I'm still overweight, still have
about 30 more pounds to go, but I don't feel any thinner than when I
started. I feel _better_; more energy, happy that I'm making progress.
But I don't see it in the mirror, I don't see it in my photos. I know I've
gotten smaller, I can see it intellectually, but I still see a "fat chick"
and there is no matter of degree. I was fat then, I'm still fat now. I
know I'm "less fat" now but it doesn't feel like it. I just feel fat. Is
this a bad sign for long-term weight loss? Did anyone else feel this way
on the journey but one day, close to or at goal, a sudden light went off
and you switched to thinking of yourself as slender?

I definitely felt that way till fairly recently. I just dug up this post
of mine from August 8 (in response to a post about using one's mirror-image
as goal vs. an arbitrary numeric target weight):

"Maybe. But I'm thinking it's good to have a target weight (or some
other non-subjective measure) as a sanity check. It's helpful to me,
at any rate. I'm currently at 116 (from a high of 216). BMI is 21.6.
Recently went shopping for a pair of pants, and the smalls were too
big -- I actually got a size XS. (I didn't think real human adults
ever bought XS!)

All of these indicators should tell me that I am at a reasonable
weight for my height.

But when I look in the mirror, what I still see is: The Michelin Man."

That was two months ago. I'm now at 110, and I don't feel that way any
more -- I feel like I actually look _good_, for the first time in my life.

I think the turning point was a few weeks ago when I finally discovered
that I am an odd-number-size body-shape rather than even-number. Up until
then I had no idea that even and odd sizes were for different body types.
Once I discovered it, I got the best-fitting pair of jeans I've ever had --
in a size 3. They look great :-) They're the first pants I've ever had
that don't make me look dumpy. It actually got me excited about clothes
shopping (something I've always loathed). I got rid of every article of
pre-diet clothing I owned, and have bought pretty much an entire new
wardrobe.

(Which means, I guess, that 110 is where I'm planning to stay. I had been
shooting for 108, mostly so it would be half of my starting weight. But
I've been sitting at this weight for a few weeks now, and it doesn't feel
like it's going to go any lower. Which is fine.)

So, no, I don't think that your current frame of mind is a bad sign at all
for long-term weight loss. It has taken me two years to get to this point,
and I felt just like you do for the first year and eleven months of it.

Em

"Nancy Howells" wrote in message
...

Comments: " I have to wonder about what makes us feel fat, though - because
isn't
it, in some ways, camparative/a state of mind? I dunno,... deep
thoughts."

When you have Lucy describing herself as a looking like "gross 165 pound
blob" at size 6, and Chakolate commenting that she? he? saw herself as
thinner than she was until she started dieting, and then reality caught up
with her, I'd say yes, thin is definitely a state of mind.

I had a psychologist friend who specialized in food issues. Her experience
was that many people can lose weight but still 'think big.' I think you
should ask yourself "What would I be doing now if I were thin?" Then do
it. Maybe taking enough 'thin' actions will lead to you internalizing a
feeling of being thin.


"Nancy Howells" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Luna wrote:

Officially 33 pounds down from when I started low-carb and Curves, 46
pounds down from my highest ever weight. I'm still overweight, still
have
about 30 more pounds to go, but I don't feel any thinner than when I
started. I feel _better_; more energy, happy that I'm making progress.
But I don't see it in the mirror, I don't see it in my photos. I know
I've
gotten smaller, I can see it intellectually, but I still see a "fat
chick"
and there is no matter of degree. I was fat then, I'm still fat now. I
know I'm "less fat" now but it doesn't feel like it. I just feel fat.
Is
this a bad sign for long-term weight loss? Did anyone else feel this
way
on the journey but one day, close to or at goal, a sudden light went off
and you switched to thinking of yourself as slender?


I don't know what to say. I'm still quite fat, so... and I know that
I've never been thin, never, so I don't know what it will/does feel like.

I have to wonder about what makes us feel fat, though - because isn't
it, in some ways, camparative/a state of mind? I dunno,... deep
thoughts.

--
Nancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the to send
mail).

"emkay" wrote in message
-
Said: "I actually got a size XS. (I didn't think real human adults ever
bought XS!)"

That's funny. I was shopping for a present for my sister, who wanted new
tees. I had the hardest time buying clothes for a 135 pound person. At
322, everything I picked up in her size looked like doll clothes to me. I
ended up buying her oversized shirts because I just couldn't see an M
fitting her. Of course, M would have been fine.

LC 10/01/03
322/311/145

Asking "What would I be doing if I were thin?" never yielded a helpful
answer for me. The most loving relationship of my whole life flowered when
I was at my heaviest. When I had a drop dead figure, mostly it attracted
guys interested in "one thing."

I've written fine, saleable stuff when I was thin--and when fat. I've had
great friends in both cases. When I was heavier and not worried about it, I
enjoyed dining out and going to parties more. No matter what I weigh I am
old enough that I'm never going to look more than "passable for my age."

Fortunately, part of getting to this age is learning how little what I look
like affects who I am. . . For me the weight issue is (and has always been)
about health.

-- Jenny

Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?


"Meowzer" wrote in message
news:jwxkb.89610$0Z5.32552@lakeread03...
"Nancy Howells" wrote in message
...

Comments: " I have to wonder about what makes us feel fat, though -
because
isn't
it, in some ways, camparative/a state of mind? I dunno,... deep
thoughts."

When you have Lucy describing herself as a looking like "gross 165 pound
blob" at size 6, and Chakolate commenting that she? he? saw herself as
thinner than she was until she started dieting, and then reality caught up
with her, I'd say yes, thin is definitely a state of mind.

I had a psychologist friend who specialized in food issues. Her
experience
was that many people can lose weight but still 'think big.' I think you
should ask yourself "What would I be doing now if I were thin?" Then do
it. Maybe taking enough 'thin' actions will lead to you internalizing a
feeling of being thin.


"Nancy Howells" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Luna wrote:

Officially 33 pounds down from when I started low-carb and Curves, 46
pounds down from my highest ever weight. I'm still overweight, still
have
about 30 more pounds to go, but I don't feel any thinner than when I
started. I feel _better_; more energy, happy that I'm making
progress.
But I don't see it in the mirror, I don't see it in my photos. I know
I've
gotten smaller, I can see it intellectually, but I still see a "fat
chick"
and there is no matter of degree. I was fat then, I'm still fat now.
I
know I'm "less fat" now but it doesn't feel like it. I just feel fat.
Is
this a bad sign for long-term weight loss? Did anyone else feel this
way
on the journey but one day, close to or at goal, a sudden light went
off
and you switched to thinking of yourself as slender?


I don't know what to say. I'm still quite fat, so... and I know that
I've never been thin, never, so I don't know what it will/does feel
like.

I have to wonder about what makes us feel fat, though - because isn't
it, in some ways, camparative/a state of mind? I dunno,... deep
thoughts.

--
Nancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the to send
mail).

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:33:46 -0400, Jenny wrote:

Asking "What would I be doing if I were thin?" never yielded a helpful
answer for me. The most loving relationship of my whole life flowered
when
I was at my heaviest. When I had a drop dead figure, mostly it attracted
guys interested in "one thing."

I've written fine, saleable stuff when I was thin--and when fat. I've
had
great friends in both cases. When I was heavier and not worried about it,
I
enjoyed dining out and going to parties more. No matter what I weigh I am
old enough that I'm never going to look more than "passable for my age."

Fortunately, part of getting to this age is learning how little what I
look
like affects who I am. . . For me the weight issue is (and has always
been)
about health.

-- Jenny

Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now



While I agree with you on many points, I wonder how being heavy affects
relationships, and in particular attraction of mates. For instance, I just
went to a speed dating event here in CT. One of my "dates" and I talked
about mountain biking. I could've swore she looked directly at my belly
when we talked about biking. Now, she doesn't know that I've lost over 50
pounds since beginning low carb, nor that I rode my bike yesterday 60 miles
(and would've done 70-75 except that I under-dressed and literally could
not feel my toes it was so cold; and would ride today, too, but it's
raining AND cold), nor that my average heart rate for four hours of biking
was 85% of my maximum HR (meaning that I'm in not too bad shape), nor that
I've always been "athletic" in the sense that I've always worked out but
that multiple injuries and poor choice in eating habits (one of which was
low fat) made me grow larger than I used to be. (For instance, one injury
occurred during a semester when I was taking an African dance class, tennis
class, biking all the time, and lifting weights.) I did choose this woman,
but did not get a "match," which means that she didn't choose me. Now, I
have no idea why this woman didn't choose me, but I wonder if it has to do
with my weight. I still need to lose 40 pounds, and while I don't look
that bad due to my muscular nature, I still do have a prominent belly when
I sit. I wonder how many times women will look at me and instantly pass me
off because I don't fit the "ideal" man. Heck, I wonder how many times I
do this. Several women I did not select were a bit overweight. Was it
their being overweight that caused me not to select them? I personally
think it wasn't, but even I'm not sure. (In reality, I believe that I'm
looking for traits of my mother -- so, if a woman's too serious, I won't
select her; if she has a good sense of humor, I will select her.)

Granted, I don't change much between being heavy and being thin (where I'll
be again next year). But people's perception of me might change, and that
probably does lead to a lessened ability to attract mates.

Anyway, while we don't change much when our weights change, I wonder how
people's perceptions of us change as our weights fluctuate.

--
Bob M in CT remove 'x.' to reply

"Meowzer" wrote in
news:jwxkb.89610$0Z5.32552@lakeread03:

When you have Lucy describing herself as a looking like "gross 165
pound blob" at size 6, and Chakolate commenting that she? he? saw
herself as thinner than she was until she started dieting, and then
reality caught up with her, I'd say yes, thin is definitely a state of
mind.


She. :-)


I had a psychologist friend who specialized in food issues. Her
experience was that many people can lose weight but still 'think big.'
I think you should ask yourself "What would I be doing now if I
were thin?" Then do it. Maybe taking enough 'thin' actions will lead
to you internalizing a feeling of being thin.


What a good suggestion.


Chakolate

--

On sadness:
The cure for this ill is not to sit still,
Or to frowst with a book by the fire,
But to take a large hoe and a shovel also,
And to dig till you gently perspire.
--Rudyard Kipling

Bob,

If you are losing weight in the belief that it will attract people who will
love you for who you really are, you are in for a disappointment. If you
had a "perfect" body, you'd attract a lot more shallow people who might want
to use your looks for some purpose of their own, but they aren't likely to
have any interest in who you are beyond your decorative uses.

I think this may be one reason a lot of people end up regaining the weight.
It isn't "fear of success" (which I've always thought was highly overrated).
Instead, it's the terrible sadness of discovering that improving your looks
doesn't change the odds of finding true love or friendship. Finding someone
who can see who you really are and love it, is tough, no matter what you
look like.

Plus, if you attract "love" because you were, as you think, gorgeous,
there's always the terror that it will be lost if you got fat again, or
sick, or just plain older.

-- Jenny

Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?


"Bob M" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:33:46 -0400, Jenny
wrote:

Asking "What would I be doing if I were thin?" never yielded a helpful
answer for me. The most loving relationship of my whole life flowered
when
I was at my heaviest. When I had a drop dead figure, mostly it attracted
guys interested in "one thing."

I've written fine, saleable stuff when I was thin--and when fat. I've
had
great friends in both cases. When I was heavier and not worried about
it,
I
enjoyed dining out and going to parties more. No matter what I weigh I
am
old enough that I'm never going to look more than "passable for my age."

Fortunately, part of getting to this age is learning how little what I
look
like affects who I am. . . For me the weight issue is (and has always
been)
about health.

-- Jenny

Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now



While I agree with you on many points, I wonder how being heavy affects
relationships, and in particular attraction of mates. For instance, I
just
went to a speed dating event here in CT. One of my "dates" and I talked
about mountain biking. I could've swore she looked directly at my belly
when we talked about biking. Now, she doesn't know that I've lost over 50
pounds since beginning low carb, nor that I rode my bike yesterday 60
miles
(and would've done 70-75 except that I under-dressed and literally could
not feel my toes it was so cold; and would ride today, too, but it's
raining AND cold), nor that my average heart rate for four hours of biking
was 85% of my maximum HR (meaning that I'm in not too bad shape), nor that
I've always been "athletic" in the sense that I've always worked out but
that multiple injuries and poor choice in eating habits (one of which was
low fat) made me grow larger than I used to be. (For instance, one injury
occurred during a semester when I was taking an African dance class,
tennis
class, biking all the time, and lifting weights.) I did choose this woman,
but did not get a "match," which means that she didn't choose me. Now, I
have no idea why this woman didn't choose me, but I wonder if it has to do
with my weight. I still need to lose 40 pounds, and while I don't look
that bad due to my muscular nature, I still do have a prominent belly when
I sit. I wonder how many times women will look at me and instantly pass
me
off because I don't fit the "ideal" man. Heck, I wonder how many times I
do this. Several women I did not select were a bit overweight. Was it
their being overweight that caused me not to select them? I personally
think it wasn't, but even I'm not sure. (In reality, I believe that I'm
looking for traits of my mother -- so, if a woman's too serious, I won't
select her; if she has a good sense of humor, I will select her.)

Granted, I don't change much between being heavy and being thin (where
I'll
be again next year). But people's perception of me might change, and that
probably does lead to a lessened ability to attract mates.

Anyway, while we don't change much when our weights change, I wonder how
people's perceptions of us change as our weights fluctuate.

--
Bob M in CT remove 'x.' to reply

In article ,
"Jenny" wrote:

Bob,

If you are losing weight in the belief that it will attract people who will
love you for who you really are, you are in for a disappointment. If you
had a "perfect" body, you'd attract a lot more shallow people who might want
to use your looks for some purpose of their own, but they aren't likely to
have any interest in who you are beyond your decorative uses.

I think this may be one reason a lot of people end up regaining the weight.
It isn't "fear of success" (which I've always thought was highly overrated).
Instead, it's the terrible sadness of discovering that improving your looks
doesn't change the odds of finding true love or friendship. Finding someone
who can see who you really are and love it, is tough, no matter what you
look like.

Plus, if you attract "love" because you were, as you think, gorgeous,
there's always the terror that it will be lost if you got fat again, or
sick, or just plain older.

-- Jenny



The thing is though, that no matter what your weight, no matter what you
look like, there are bound to be people who are only interested in you for
your looks. True, more people prefer healthy bodies, but there are some who
like a little padding, and some who like a lot. Also, there are people who
prey on anyone with low self-esteem, for whatever reason, because people
who are not happy with themselves are easier to control and use. So they
might specifically be attracted to people who are not just heavy, but
unhappy about it.

It truly hit a chord with me on the Dr. Phil show one day when he was
talking about self-image vs. body image. It doesn't matter if you like him
or not, his point was a good one. Self image and body image should be
seperate. If you like your "self" that means liking _who you are_ not the
package your "self" comes in. The reason I think people don't stick with
weight loss, or gain it back, is because they think fixing the external
package will somehow transform the internal self. Anyway, the point is is
that if you want to find love, it really doesn't matter what you look like,
what matters is what you feel about yourself. Liking and respecting
yourself not only makes you more attractive, but it makes you think you're
worth having a supportive and loving partner, so you're less likely to
settle for someone who isn't a good match.

Now, the caveat to all of this, and this is something I believe as a
generalization so it won't necessarily apply to all people, is that once
you are happy with your self, and have respect for who you are, it
naturally follows that you'd want to take care of your vessel, your body,
and make sure it is as healthy as possible. So things like being a healthy
weight, having good hygeine, and not abusing drugs and alcohol are the
results of a well balanced mind and spirit, and thus become external
signals to any prospective mates. I can't read a man's mind upon first
meeting him, but I CAN see good health, and what that says to me on a
subconscious level is not just "hubba hubba" but it also says "This guy
cares enough about himself to take care of his body, and if he thinks he's
worth it maybe I will too."

--
-Michelle Levin (Luna)
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick
http://www.mindspring.com/~designbyluna

It's true that you can't expect losing weight to bring you happiness any
more than having money will bring you happiness. But, like having money,
it's a lot easier to be happy when you are thin.

Now, before I get slammed for this sentiment, study after study shows that
when people are shown a picture of a heavy person and a thin person, the
adjectives used for the overweight person are 'stupid' 'lazy' and 'smelly.'
The thin person will have adjectives such as 'smart' 'happy' etc. While
losing weight won't change who I am, it will give me a better chance to
present the smart, hardworking, innovative person I am when I go for a job
interview. I don't want to have to overcome stereotypes - often
unconscious - on the part of the person who is judging you. Also, for
someone who has to travel for business, it is agony to sit for hours in
coach, unable to shift my weight or even bend my knees for hours on end. I
end up with huge bruises on my thighs. I'd be a lot happier in my travels
if I didn't have to face this - along with the glares of my seatmates.

I'd be a lot happier to be able to move around and live in my own body
without having to turn sideways to move between desks, if I didn't knock
people's paperwork off their desk with my hips and my legs weren't in
burning agony when a group of us walks to a restaurant for lunch.

No, losing weight won't bring me love or friendships, but it will bring me
the ability to live my life without having to constantly compensate for my
weight or miss out on activities (hikes, bike trips, etc) with others that
I'd enjoy but can't handle at my current weight.

"Jenny" wrote in message
...
Bob,

If you are losing weight in the belief that it will attract people who
will
love you for who you really are, you are in for a disappointment. If you
had a "perfect" body, you'd attract a lot more shallow people who might
want
to use your looks for some purpose of their own, but they aren't likely to
have any interest in who you are beyond your decorative uses.

I think this may be one reason a lot of people end up regaining the
weight.
It isn't "fear of success" (which I've always thought was highly
overrated).
Instead, it's the terrible sadness of discovering that improving your
looks
doesn't change the odds of finding true love or friendship. Finding
someone
who can see who you really are and love it, is tough, no matter what you
look like.

Plus, if you attract "love" because you were, as you think, gorgeous,
there's always the terror that it will be lost if you got fat again, or
sick, or just plain older.

-- Jenny

Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger
Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?


"Bob M" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:33:46 -0400, Jenny
wrote:

Asking "What would I be doing if I were thin?" never yielded a helpful
answer for me. The most loving relationship of my whole life flowered
when
I was at my heaviest. When I had a drop dead figure, mostly it
attracted
guys interested in "one thing."

I've written fine, saleable stuff when I was thin--and when fat. I've
had
great friends in both cases. When I was heavier and not worried about
it,
I
enjoyed dining out and going to parties more. No matter what I weigh I
am
old enough that I'm never going to look more than "passable for my
age."

Fortunately, part of getting to this age is learning how little what I
look
like affects who I am. . . For me the weight issue is (and has always
been)
about health.

-- Jenny

Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now



While I agree with you on many points, I wonder how being heavy affects
relationships, and in particular attraction of mates. For instance, I
just
went to a speed dating event here in CT. One of my "dates" and I talked
about mountain biking. I could've swore she looked directly at my belly
when we talked about biking. Now, she doesn't know that I've lost over
50
pounds since beginning low carb, nor that I rode my bike yesterday 60
miles
(and would've done 70-75 except that I under-dressed and literally could
not feel my toes it was so cold; and would ride today, too, but it's
raining AND cold), nor that my average heart rate for four hours of
biking
was 85% of my maximum HR (meaning that I'm in not too bad shape), nor
that
I've always been "athletic" in the sense that I've always worked out but
that multiple injuries and poor choice in eating habits (one of which
was
low fat) made me grow larger than I used to be. (For instance, one
injury
occurred during a semester when I was taking an African dance class,
tennis
class, biking all the time, and lifting weights.) I did choose this
woman,
but did not get a "match," which means that she didn't choose me. Now,
I
have no idea why this woman didn't choose me, but I wonder if it has to
do
with my weight. I still need to lose 40 pounds, and while I don't look
that bad due to my muscular nature, I still do have a prominent belly
when
I sit. I wonder how many times women will look at me and instantly pass
me
off because I don't fit the "ideal" man. Heck, I wonder how many times
I
do this. Several women I did not select were a bit overweight. Was it
their being overweight that caused me not to select them? I personally
think it wasn't, but even I'm not sure. (In reality, I believe that I'm
looking for traits of my mother -- so, if a woman's too serious, I won't
select her; if she has a good sense of humor, I will select her.)

Granted, I don't change much between being heavy and being thin (where
I'll
be again next year). But people's perception of me might change, and
that
probably does lead to a lessened ability to attract mates.

Anyway, while we don't change much when our weights change, I wonder how
people's perceptions of us change as our weights fluctuate.

--
Bob M in CT remove 'x.' to reply

**** you JC. Why are you on this site to begin with?
R.

"JC Der Koenig" wrote in message
...
Why will you never be slim?

--
JC

Lyle's New Ultimate Diet

"1. eat less you fat ****
2. exercise more you fat ****"

"Anthony" wrote in message
...

"Luna" wrote in message
...
Officially 33 pounds down from when I started low-carb and Curves, 46
pounds down from my highest ever weight. I'm still overweight, still
have
about 30 more pounds to go, but I don't feel any thinner than when I
started.

Same here. My theory is that when we accepted ourselves at our fat
weight,
(were in denial, didn't do anything about it), we suppressed the "I'm
fat"
perception. But once we said "I'm too fat and I'm going to change" the
denial ended and we started to see the reality. I'm close enough to my
target, but I'm not slim and never will be. I see myself as overweight
still, much more so than when I was a lot bigger but ignoring the issue,
which is good in a way because i'm constantly on guard against starting
an
upward trend. So, enjoy how much better you feel, the smaller clothes
sizes
and the Omigod remarks from friends. Maybe you'll really feel slim one
day,
but...............maybe not!