Is fat discrimination really so different...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 9 Jul 2004, (Ray Audette) wrote:

Thus eating low-calorie has been shown to increase weight by an
average of 15% after two years in study after study. The 25 year
Harvard study of 125,000 women ( with food diaries) showed that the
more calories they ate - the LESS they weighed.

The Harvard study concluded that the more women weighed, the more they
underestimated their caloric intake.

hth

NR

http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html

If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last thing
you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an automatic.
- --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me and
sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
choice had vandalized churches.
- --Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no normal
camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have sex when
she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women ain't
that big.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right? Besides,
after ****ing a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all that
except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all. If the
lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance than
looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures where
they were called cows.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I would
really not care.
- --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Stephen A Chaney admits to sodomizing his daughter if he forges me now.




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: N/A

iQA/AwUBQPAiZDL3IlvsWvnjEQI5YACgqXrfHKV+Yfb4QJfLD3pwf8 LDSwIAoM2l
CNsHHCXp2JqZrHwVgtlLTr8k
=Ma90
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

(NR) wrote in message On 9 Jul 2004, (Ray Audette) wrote:

Thus eating low-calorie has been shown to increase weight by an
average of 15% after two years in study after study. The 25 year
Harvard study of 125,000 women ( with food diaries) showed that the
more calories they ate - the LESS they weighed.

The Harvard study concluded that the more women weighed, the more they
underestimated their caloric intake.


And we all know how them fat people lie!

I don't think so, I rather think this is an attempt to justify their
preconceived ideas by insulting the overweight. BTW the head Doctor
for nutrition at Harvard is himself morbidly obese - I met him at a
weight loss conference ( where out of 12 weight-loss "experts" from
Harvard, Princeton, The Cooper Clinic etc., I was the only one who
wasn't overweight). If he's so smart, why is he so overweight?

These people give bad advice - can the Medical Malpractice Industry
offer us no relief from their innumeracy? How much is your suffering
worth?

Ray Audette
Author "NeanderThin"
www.NeanderThin.com

On 13 Jul 2004 14:18:33 -0700, (Ray Audette) wrote:

(NR) wrote in message On 9 Jul 2004, (Ray Audette) wrote:

Thus eating low-calorie has been shown to increase weight by an
average of 15% after two years in study after study. The 25 year
Harvard study of 125,000 women ( with food diaries) showed that the
more calories they ate - the LESS they weighed.

The Harvard study concluded that the more women weighed, the more they
underestimated their caloric intake.


And we all know how them fat people lie!

I don't think so, I rather think this is an attempt to justify their
preconceived ideas by insulting the overweight.

Beg to differ. It could very well be that most obese people just have
no idea how many calories they take in (because they don't want to
know) and underestimate. I got my wakeup call a few months ago when I
looked at the caloric content on my MickeyDees meal and was stunned to
see that lunch had more calories than I should be getting in the
entire day. Since then, I keep an eye on caloric intake. Not really
that hard to do.

BTW the head Doctor
for nutrition at Harvard is himself morbidly obese - I met him at a
weight loss conference ( where out of 12 weight-loss "experts" from
Harvard, Princeton, The Cooper Clinic etc., I was the only one who
wasn't overweight). If he's so smart, why is he so overweight?

These people give bad advice - can the Medical Malpractice Industry
offer us no relief from their innumeracy? How much is your suffering
worth?

Ray Audette
Author "NeanderThin"
www.NeanderThin.com


---

Remove whiz to email

----

On 13 Jul 2004 14:18:33 -0700, (Ray Audette) wrote:

(NR) wrote in message On 9 Jul 2004, (Ray Audette) wrote:

Thus eating low-calorie has been shown to increase weight by an
average of 15% after two years in study after study. The 25 year
Harvard study of 125,000 women ( with food diaries) showed that the
more calories they ate - the LESS they weighed.

The Harvard study concluded that the more women weighed, the more they
underestimated their caloric intake.


And we all know how them fat people lie!

I don't think so, I rather think this is an attempt to justify their
preconceived ideas by insulting the overweight.

Beg to differ. It could very well be that most obese people just have
no idea how many calories they take in (because they don't want to
know) and underestimate. I got my wakeup call a few months ago when I
looked at the caloric content on my MickeyDees meal and was stunned to
see that lunch had more calories than I should be getting in the
entire day. Since then, I keep an eye on caloric intake. Not really
that hard to do.

BTW the head Doctor
for nutrition at Harvard is himself morbidly obese - I met him at a
weight loss conference ( where out of 12 weight-loss "experts" from
Harvard, Princeton, The Cooper Clinic etc., I was the only one who
wasn't overweight). If he's so smart, why is he so overweight?

These people give bad advice - can the Medical Malpractice Industry
offer us no relief from their innumeracy? How much is your suffering
worth?

Ray Audette
Author "NeanderThin"
www.NeanderThin.com


---

Remove whiz to email

----

The Harvard study concluded that the more women weighed, the more they
underestimated their caloric intake.

But this actually seems quite likely. I know I underestimated mine, and
overestimated exercise burn.

--
Jane Lumley

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 13 Jul 2004, (Ray Audette) wrote:

The Harvard study concluded that the more women weighed, the more they
underestimated their caloric intake.


And we all know how them fat people lie!

I don't think so, I rather think this is an attempt to justify their
preconceived ideas by insulting the overweight.

Read and weep.


Appetite 1992 Dec;19(3):273-83

Underreporting of food intake in obese "small eaters".

Fricker J, Baelde D, Igoin-Apfelbaum L, Huet JM, Apfelbaum M
Inserm U 286-Human Nutrition, Medical School Xavier Bichat, Paris, France.

Thirty sedentary and stable weight obese women were classified as small,
normal or large eaters depending on their report of 24 h energy intake (EI)
through a dietary history questionnaire. For each subject, resting
metabolic rate (RMR) was assessed through indirect calorimetry, physical
activity through a self-administered questionnaire and psychological
evaluation through psychometric tests. Neither RMR nor indices of physical
activity were different between the three groups; however for small eaters,
RMR was higher than reported EI (p 0.001). Thus, the low EI reported by
obese small eaters reflected an underreporting of food intake. Psychometric
evaluation was not different between normal and large eaters. Small eaters
exhibited a better perception of food size than normal or large eaters, and
no difference in tests assessing memory or attention; their score (2.8 +/-
1.3) in a nutritional dissimulation test was higher (p = 0.015) than that
of normal (1.0 +/- 0.7) or large eaters (1.5 +/- 0.09). This suggests that
underreporting in obese small eaters might be due to specific nutritional
concealment; because small eaters reported a low intake particularly in
foods which are often perceived as unhealthy (fats, sugars, extra-prandial
consumption), they probably reported what, in their opinion, they should
have eaten, instead of what they did eat.

****

Z Ernahrungswiss 1997 Sep;36(3):229-36

Obesity as a major determinant of underreporting in a self-administered
food frequency questionnai results from the EPIC-Potsdam Study.

Voss S, Kroke A, Klipstein-Grobusch K, Boeing H
German Institute of Human Nutrition Potsdam-Rehbrucke, Unit of Medical
Epidemiology, Bergholz-Rehbrucke.

The phenomenon of underreporting of dietary intake has been observed
previously in many epidemiologic studies. In this study it was investigated
whether dependencies exist between energy intake obtained by a
semi-quantitative, self-administered food frequency questionnaire and
lifestyle or anthropometric factors, particularly obesity. The study
population consisted of 2,531 subjects, men aged 40 to 64 years and women
aged 35 to 64 years from the general population of Potsdam and the
surrounding areas. First, subjects were allocated into quintiles of the
ratio 'reported energy intake (EI)' to 'calculated basal metabolic rate
(BMR)' as a measure of age and weight adjusted energy intake. No apparent
dependencies between socio-economic variables and the ratio EI/BMR were
observed. Among anthropometric variables, BMI and related measures of
obesity were inversely related to the ratio EI/BMR in men and women. While
dietary intake was directly related to the ratio EI/BMR in absolute
quantities, energy adjusted intake of fat, protein, carbohydrate, and
alcohol was found to be independent of this ratio. Energy adjusted food
group consumption was also found to be independent of the ratio EI/BMR,
showing only slightly increasing trends across quintiles of EI/BMR for
cereals and fats, and a slightly decreasing trend for sweet foods in women.
When subjects were classified into three categories of BMI, reported energy
intake decreased across categories. Estimated energy expenditure based on
BMR was increasing with BMI categories. A close direct relationship was
observed between BMI categories and the difference between reported energy
intake and estimated energy expenditure. It is concluded that obesity is a
major determinant of under-reporting. Energy adjusted dietary variables
were found to be largely independent of such methodological influences.

****

J Am Diet Assoc 1999 Mar;99(3):300-6; quiz 307-8

Published erratum appears in J Am Diet Assoc 1999 Apr;99(4):411

Behavioral and body size correlates of energy intake underreporting by
obese and normal-weight women.

Kretsch MJ, Fong AK, Green MW
US Department of Agriculture, Western Human Nutrition Research Center,
Presidio of San Francisco, CA 94129, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To examine behavioral and body size influences on the
underreporting of energy intake by obese and normal-weight women. DESIGN:
Seven-day estimated food records were kept by subjects before they
participated in a 49-day residential study. Self-reported energy intake was
compared with energy intake required to maintain a stable body weight
during the residential study (reference standard). Energy intake bias and
its relationship to various body size and behavioral measures were
examined. SUBJECTS: Twenty-two, healthy, normal-weight (mean body mass
index [BMI] = 21.3) and obese (mean BMI = 34.2) women aged 22 to 42 years
were studied. STATISTICAL ANALYSES: Analysis of variance, paired t test,
simple linear regression, and Pearson correlation analyses were conducted.
RESULTS: Mean energy intake from self-reported food records was
underreported by normal-weight (-9.7%) and obese (-19.4%) women. BMI
correlated inversely with the energy intake difference for normal-weight
women (r = -.67, P =02), whereas the Beck Depression Inventory correlated
positively with the
energy intake difference for obese women (r = .73, P .01).
CONCLUSION/APPLICATIONS: Results suggest that body size and behavioral
traits play a role in the ability of women to accurately self-report energy
intake. BMI appears to be predictive of underreporting of energy intake by
normal-weight women, whereas emotional factors related to depression appear
to be more determinant of underreporting for obese women. Understanding
causative factors of the underreporting phenomenon will help practicing
dietitians to devise appropriate and realistic diet intervention plans that
clients can follow to achieve meaningful change.

****

N Engl J Med 1992 Dec 31;327(27):1893-1898

Discrepancy between self-reported and actual caloric intake and exercise in
obese subjects.

Lichtman SW, Pisarska K, Berman ER, Pestone M, Dowling H, Offenbacher E,
Weisel H, Heshka S, Matthews DE, Heymsfield SB.

Department of Medicine, St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center, Columbia
University College of Physicians and Surgeons, New York, NY.

BACKGROUND AND METHODS. Some obese subjects repeatedly fail to lose weight
even though they report restricting their caloric intake to less than 1200
kcal per day. We studied two explanations for this apparent resistance to
diet--low total energy expenditure and underreporting of caloric intake--in
224 consecutive obese subjects presenting for treatment. Group 1 consisted
of nine women and one man with a history of diet resistance in whom we
evaluated total energy expenditure and its main thermogenic components and
actual energy intake for 14 days by indirect calorimetry and analysis of
body composition. Group 2, subgroups of which served as controls in the
various evaluations, consisted of 67 women and 13 men with no history of
diet resistance. RESULTS. Total energy expenditure and resting metabolic
rate in the subjects with diet resistance (group 1) were within 5 percent
of the predicted values for body composition, and there was no significant
difference between groups 1 and 2 in the thermic effects of food and
exercise. Low energy expenditure was thus excluded as a mechanism of
self-reported diet resistance. In contrast, the subjects in group
1underreported their actual food intake by an average (+/- SD) of 47 +/- 16
percent and overreported their physical activity by 51 +/- 75 percent.
Although the subjects in group 1 had no distinct psychopathologic
characteristics, they perceived a genetic cause for their obesity, used
thyroid medication at a high frequency, and described their eating behavior
as relatively normal (all P 0.05 as compared with group 2). CONCLUSIONS.
The failure of some obese subjects to lose weight while eating a diet they
report as low in calories is due to an energy intake substantially higher
than reported and an overestimation of physical activity, not to an
abnormality in thermogenesis.

***

hth

NR

http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html

If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last thing
you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an automatic.
- --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me and
sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
choice had vandalized churches.
- --Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no normal
camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have sex when
she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women ain't
that big.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right? Besides,
after ****ing a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all that
except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all. If the
lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance than
looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures where
they were called cows.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I would
really not care.
- --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Stephen A Chaney admits to sodomizing his daughter if he forges me now.



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: N/A

iQA/AwUBQPXh5jL3IlvsWvnjEQJ9pACg4I/BISREXTBPBZeugHockGA13FkAniaE
J6xJBXMAUAMJDcYPFLNrpap/
=7W+a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----