About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks

On 18/05/2012 6:16 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2012 20:50:33 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote:


Because I observe that the conclusions of climate science continue to
change decade to decade and thus we should not make large political
changes based on the predictions of thise decade as they are still
likely to change next decade, I get called a climate change denier by
some.

That's because the people who call you that are stupid. No one
disputes that the climate is changing. Probably from the precise
moment that earth even had a climate, it started to change.

And the people who call me an AIDS "denialist" are stupid too, because
no one disputes that AIDS exists.

And whether Doug agrees with me or not, he's apparently taking
precautions that allow for Duesberg being right. Probably because he's
smart enough to not put all of his apples in one basket ...

I remember the world before AIDS appeared. I remember the time before
AIDS was correlated with HIV.

And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well,
everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand.

Correlation does not imply causation, but causation does imply correlation.


I have long accepted that HIV is the
primary cause or AIDS but I do get that this theory is still young and
may be disproved.

It's already been disproved, and via The Scientific Method, which
Duesberg's book clearly illustrates.

No one can possibly fully understand this topic (and Hep C, HPV, FIV,
FeLV, prions, etc.) without reading his book.

I'm not betting my farm on it. That part of the
medical field is immature. Most of medicine as a science is immature
compared with several other sciences.

Not so much immature as CORRUPT, which Duesberg's book PROVES.

I know that something like 15% of all people who are HIV infected nevre
become symptomatic with AIDS.
[...]

As long as they don't take AIDS drugs, take steps to strengthen their
immune system, and avoid the risk factors, e.g., abuse IV and other
recreational drugs, if you're a man, having promiscuous sex with other
men, inhale amyl nitrates, take antibiotics prophylactically, practice
good hygiene, eat healthy food, drink clean water, etc., they won't
get AIDS.



--
-jw

On Fri, 18 May 2012 18:28:25 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well,
everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand.

Correlation does not imply causation, but causation does imply correlation.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?



--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On 18/05/2012 6:32 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2012 18:28:25 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well,
everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand.

Correlation does not imply causation, but causation does imply correlation.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Correlation is frequently first and then causation is established afterwards.
Correlation is what creates a list of possible suspects for further investigation.

--
-jw

On Fri, 18 May 2012 18:59:27 -0300, James Warren
wrote:


Correlation is frequently first and then causation is established afterwards.
Correlation is what creates a list of possible suspects for further investigation.

Who's on first?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmvk...?v=wfmvkO5x6Ng

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

Dogman wrote:

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Having had caviar and roe in sushi, having seen fossils of fish older
than any land vertabrate, that's an easy one for me.

On May 18, 4:50*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Dogman wrote:
" wrote:

Doug has made it clear that he doesn't agree with you ...

And I've made it clear to you that The Scientific Method doesn't give
a hoot about who agrees or doesn't agree with a theory.

Sometimes I write comments about the maturity of fields of science. *In
a mature field the conclusions change very little. *In the atomic theory
of chemistry we now have photographs of individual atoms. *Advances in
inorganic chemistry are now in fields in battery storage. *Very much
edge material compared to the common industrial processes in wide use.
No one is ever going to overturn theories about mixing dissolved salts
to produce precipitates.

Because I observe that the conclusions of climate science continue to
change decade to decade and thus we should not make large political
changes based on the predictions of thise decade as they are still
likely to change next decade, I get called a climate change denier by
some.

And whether Doug agrees with me or not, he's apparently taking
precautions that allow for Duesberg being right. Probably because he's
smart enough to not put all of his apples in one basket ...

I remember the world before AIDS appeared. *I remember the time before
AIDS was correlated with HIV. *I have long accepted that HIV is the
primary cause or AIDS but I do get that this theory is still young and
may be disproved. *I'm not betting my farm on it. *That part of the
medical field is immature. *Most of medicine as a science is immature
compared with several other sciences.

I know that something like 15% of all people who are HIV infected nevre
become symptomatic with AIDS. No way am I allowing myself to be
injected hoping to become a part of that 15%.

Which of course has nothing to do with HIV being the cause of
AIDS. There are similar results with many diseases where a
small percentage never have acute symptoms, get a milder version,
etc.


But the other causes are
stuff that should be avoided for health reasons.

There are no OTHER causes. Show us one peer reviewed study
where you have people with extremely low T cell counts, dying of
opportunistic infections, ie the classic hallmarks of AIDS,
where they are not HIV infected and it's instead caused by:

A - not enough sleep
B - too much sex
C - drug abuse
D - hemophilia
E - Pick the non-sequitor of your choice that
the denialist conjure up case by case.


Show us a peer reviewed study where those patients
exist and are cured by diet, sleep, etc.

I'd like to see a Montagnier study. He claims HIV can
be easily erradicated from a person infected by eliminating
oxidative stress, diet, improved sanitation. He's had
3 decades now, where are those patients and the study?

Or is it just that Montagnier is full of BS? The same guy
who recently got up in front of a group of peers and claimed he
had detected eletromagnetic waves being emitted by
DNA? Everybody laughed at that one and no one has
been able to reproduce it. He's just a joke that the denialists
use.

On Sun, 20 May 2012 13:22:02 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote:

Dogman wrote:

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Having had caviar and roe in sushi, having seen fossils of fish older
than any land vertabrate, that's an easy one for me.

Putting aside religious beliefs for the moment, I think it's the egg,
because the chicken is a hybrid. Heh.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On May 18, 5:16*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2012 20:50:33 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger

wrote:
Because I observe that the conclusions of climate science continue to
change decade to decade and thus we should not make large political
changes based on the predictions of thise decade as they are still
likely to change next decade, I get called a climate change denier by
some.

That's because the people who call you that are stupid. No one
disputes that the climate is changing. Probably from the precise
moment that earth even had a climate, it started to change.

And the people who call me an AIDS "denialist" are stupid too, because
no one disputes that AIDS exists.

From the CDS:

"AIDS
Acquired immune deficiency syndrome
AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) is the final stage of HIV
disease, which causes severe damage to the immune system."


You deny that HIV causes this communicable disease. You
instead claims it's just diet, not enough sleep, recreational drugs.
Which of course is pathetic and yes it makes you a denialist.
Why are you ashamed of what you are?

And why are you back again? About 6 times now you've told
us you were done.





And whether Doug agrees with me or not, he's apparently taking
precautions that allow for Duesberg being right. Probably because he's
smart enough to not put all of his apples in one basket ...

I remember the world before AIDS appeared. *I remember the time before
AIDS was correlated with HIV.

And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well,
everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand.

Still waiting for your explanation for what we all saw with
hemophiliacs. For what we saw we people who received
blood transfusions with routing surgery before blood was
screened for HIV. Real people like Ryan White, Arthur
Ashe, Isaac Asimov. How that appeared, was increasing,
and just as suddenly stopped once blood was screened
for HIV.

For your explanation how people were dying right and left
whether treated or not. Yet now that we have effective drugs
that specifically target HIV, they are living. And at the same
time, people who are not treated in third world countries that
have HIV are dying. I know, poor diet and not enough sleep,
because Duesburg says so, right?





I have long accepted that HIV is the
primary cause or AIDS but I do get that this theory is still young and
may be disproved.

It's already been disproved, and via The Scientific Method, which
Duesberg's book clearly illustrates.

Just like it's been proved that the earth is flat,
all disease can be cured by diet, and the holocaust
never ocurred.





No one can possibly fully understand this topic (and Hep C, HPV, FIV,
FeLV, prions, etc.) without reading his book.

You can't even understand that viruses can cause cancer.
There is a whole field of biology working on that and you
claim it doesn't even exist.





I'm not betting my farm on it. *That part of the
medical field is immature. *Most of medicine as a science is immature
compared with several other sciences.

Not so much immature as CORRUPT, which Duesberg's book PROVES.

Ahhh yes, the required grand conspiracy that all loons
need to try to make their pathetic case and ignore the
mountains of evidence.




I know that something like 15% of all people who are HIV infected nevre
become symptomatic with AIDS.

[...]

As long as they don't take AIDS drugs, take steps to strengthen their
immune system, and avoid the risk factors, e.g., abuse IV and other
recreational drugs, if you're a man, having promiscuous sex with other
men, inhale amyl nitrates, take antibiotics prophylactically, practice
good hygiene, eat healthy food, drink clean water, etc., they won't
get AIDS.




The lie repeated. Here's the truth:

http://www.aidstruth.org/denialism/dead_denialists


Kelly Jon Landis

We regret to report that Kelly Jon Landis died December 3, 2007 in
Santa Monica, CA, at age 39 after suffering for several months with
lymphoma and other AIDS symptoms. Self-described as the "dissident
saint," he was a health food fanatic and avid bicycle rider who
avoided standard medical care and sought alternative therapies. He
felt that simply leading a drug-free healthy lifestyle would protect
him from disease.

Sophie Brassard

Sophie Brassard, a Canadian, was the HIV-positive mother of two HIV-
positive, perinatally-infected sons. Citing the influence of HEAL,
Alive and Well, Duesberg and Mullis, she refused to allow her children
access to medical care when the became ill and fled the country with
them. She consequently lost custody and parental rights. She died of
AIDS on September 16, 2002, at age 37.

Jerry Colinard

Jerry Colinard, a board member of San Diego HEAL, died on July 4,
2009, at the age of 55, of AIDS. His webpage recalls that “Jerry
supported the HIV community and was honored by a San Diego agency,
‘Being Alive,’ for his commitment. However by 2001 he had rejected
traditional Western drug centered HIV medicine. He referred to himself
as an ‘AIDS dissident’ thereafter.”

Sylvie Cousseau

Sylvie Cousseau contributed to a list of testimonials from people who
tested HIV positive but embraced AIDS denial and rejected HIV
treatment. This list of testimonials features on several different
websites, including HEAL Toronto and the personal web pages of Rudolf
Werner, Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at the
University of Miami:
http://molbio.med.miami.edu/HIV-Aids/stories.htm
http://healtoronto.com/testimonials.html
http://www.garynull.com/documents/Co...eapOfFaith.htm
Sylvie Cousseau was the partner of Mark Griffiths. Sylvie died in
2001 at age 41.


Boyd Ed Graves

Boyd Graves was an HIV-positive lawyer who promoted the false view
that HIV was developed by the US National Cancer Institute as part of
a military programme to develop biological warfare agents for use
against targeted communities. He found an NCI "flowchart" which he
misinterpreted as demonstrating the existence of this programme, and
initiated several unsuccessful lawsuits against the US government.
While he believed that this manufactured HIV causes AIDS, he
questioned the science of antiretroviral therapy and instead promoted
as an "AIDS cure" a substance called "Tetracyl" or “Tetrasil” -- a
silver compound with no known medical benefits and no evidence to
support its use in HIV. According to an email circulated by his
supporters he died in June 2009, apparently of AIDS, after several
"Tetracyl" injections failed to reverse his illness. As far what we
are aware he never took antiretrovirals.


John Kirkham

John Kirkham, an HIV+ denialist who managed the altheal website, died
of pneumonia in 2008. His friends attribute his death to having
survived lymphoma, a difficult personal relationship, and a chilly,
damp house.



There's a long sad list of others on the website. Read it
and learn.

On Sun, 20 May 2012 10:45:07 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

[...]
That's because the people who call you that are stupid. No one
disputes that the climate is changing. Probably from the precise
moment that earth even had a climate, it started to change.

And the people who call me an AIDS "denialist" are stupid too, because
no one disputes that AIDS exists.

From the CDS:

"AIDS
Acquired immune deficiency syndrome
AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) is the final stage of HIV
disease, which causes severe damage to the immune system."


You deny that HIV causes this communicable disease.

Yes, I do. And I've explained why.

You're just too stupid to understand me.

And why are you back again?

In case you haven't noticed, I've never left, asshole.

About 6 times now you've told
us you were done.

I'm done *discussing* AIDS with YOU, but I'm not done calling you
stupid.

Because you are. I consider it a public service.

[...]
And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well,
everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand.

Still waiting for your explanation for what we all saw with
hemophiliacs.

I've already explained that.

It's already been disproved, and via The Scientific Method, which
Duesberg's book clearly illustrates.

Just like it's been proved that the earth is flat,
all disease can be cured by diet, and the holocaust
never ocurred.

Yet you refuse to read the book.

No one can possibly fully understand this topic (and Hep C, HPV, FIV,
FeLV, prions, etc.) without reading his book.

You can't even understand that viruses can cause cancer.

No they can't. And I've already explained why.

Not so much immature as CORRUPT, which Duesberg's book PROVES.

Ahhh yes, the required grand conspiracy that all loons
need to try to make their pathetic case and ignore the
mountains of evidence.

Yet you refuse to read his book.

Sheesh.

--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman

On Sun, 20 May 2012 10:26:07 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


But the other causes are
stuff that should be avoided for health reasons.

There are no OTHER causes. Show us one peer reviewed study

Right after you show me one decent study that proves HIV causes AIDS.

I'd like to see a Montagnier study.

Here's a study I'd like to see, based on Koch's Postulates:

Koch's postulates are as follows:

The bacteria must be present in every case of the disease.

The bacteria must be isolated from the host with the disease and grown
in pure culture.

The specific disease must be reproduced when a pure culture of the
bacteria is inoculated into a healthy susceptible host.

The bacteria must be recoverable from the experimentally infected
host.

This had always been the hallmark of infectious disease verification,
both viral and bacteria, but AIDS changed everything.

So, no antibodies crap, just the virus, Koch's Postulates. Period.

Until that happens, there is no proof that HIV causes AIDS.



--
Dogman

"I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty
about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman