weight lifting and LC?

"Roger Zoul" writes:
You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't need
to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he won't
need that much protein.

Isn't protein intake tied to muscle *use*, not desire to gain? If
you're lifting, you're still repairing muscle, and that's what the
extra protein is for.

Also, protein intake is normally tied to LBM, not total weight, which
makes a difference if you're overweight. For a PSMF, 200g/day sounds
about right to me, given his info. I just started one and, for my
135lbs LBM and lifting I'm at 170g protein per day. We'd need to know
his %bf (or at least his height and build) to try to be more accurate.
But even 200g/day is still only 800 kcals/day, which is plenty low
enough for a PSMF cutting cycle.

"Roger Zoul" writes:
You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't need
to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he won't
need that much protein.

Isn't protein intake tied to muscle *use*, not desire to gain? If
you're lifting, you're still repairing muscle, and that's what the
extra protein is for.

Also, protein intake is normally tied to LBM, not total weight, which
makes a difference if you're overweight. For a PSMF, 200g/day sounds
about right to me, given his info. I just started one and, for my
135lbs LBM and lifting I'm at 170g protein per day. We'd need to know
his %bf (or at least his height and build) to try to be more accurate.
But even 200g/day is still only 800 kcals/day, which is plenty low
enough for a PSMF cutting cycle.

"Werlax" writes:

My strength is way down, as well, and I'm anxious for improvements
in that area. I worry that I'm limiting my gains since I seem to
burn out so much faster on low-carb.

Have you considered Lyle's new PSMF book?

According to the BMI and insurance charts, my ideal weight is 190.
It seems ridiculous to me since that was my weight in high school.

BMI doesn't work for people outside the norm, either excessively
muscular or excessively not. If you can measure your %bf it's a
better indicator (15% being "ideal" for men).

warehouse wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: warehouse wrote:
::::: Mark McArthey wrote:
:::::: As I've mentioned here before, I had done a cyclic ketogenic diet
:::::: before in conjunction with weight training per a diet/program
:::::: detailed by Lyle McDonald (as can be seen in
:::::: misc.fitness.weights). Anyway, now that I'm doing straight LC
:::::: I've found that my stamina is way down. My muscles
:::::
:::::: burn sooner and it's harder to maintain the reps with heavy
:::::: weights. It's been a while, but I recall seeing something about
:::::: using Vanadyl Sulfate to aid in insulin uptake. Is this true,
:::::: or still recommended? Any other ideas?
:::::: Thanks for any help,
:::::: Mark
::::::
:::::: 260/240/200 since: 18/01/2005
:::::
::::: Are you trying to bulk or cut?
::::: What's your bodyfat?
::::: Your 260/240/200 signifies a substantial cut is in order. Straight
::::: LC with 1gm protein per pound bodyweight ought to provide a good
::::: baseline for a Protein Sparing Modified Fast diet. 40 pounds to
::::: lose? If your shooting for 200 lbs all bulked-up you'll need to
::::: overshoot your target on fat loss and then bulk up to 200 lbs.
::::: Is that what you want to do?
:::
::: You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
::: Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't need
::: to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he won't
::: need that much protein.
::
:: 200 g protein per day @ 260 lbs would be 1.75 g/kg and be in the
:: target range for a strength athlete according to Lemon P. Is
:: increased dietary protein necessary or beneficial for individuals
:: with a
:: physically active lifestyle? Nutrition Reviews (1996) 54: S169-S175.

Does lifting weights make one a strength athlete? if it does, let me know so
I can refer to myself as such....

::
:: Extra protein will be "spill-over" and converted to glucose. The
:: extra glucose will supplement performance without increasing
:: carbohydrate intake. Sure protein is more expensive than carbs, but
:: Mark says he wants to increase stamina.

He wants to get it back up so he can complete his workouts...there are other
ways to do that. Firstly, he may find that if he continues on LC for a while
longer, he'll be able to complete those workouts just fine. If not, he can
simply up his carb level a bit, or do a TKD. He does need to get sufficient
protein, however.

Increasing the blood level
:: amino acids through over-compensating protein intake will allow
:: protein synthesis to increase due to his hypertrophic workouts
:: according to Oddoye EA., Margen S. Nitrogen balance studies in
:: humans: long-term effect of high nitrogen intake on nitrogen
:: accretion. J Nutr 109 (3): 363-77


How do you know his workouts will be hypertrophic?

::
:: I don't know what his LBM is though and he'll be able to trim the
:: protein as he loses more weight [read fat].

He can just up his carbs and eat about 150 g of protein a day and be just
fine. It is really hard to eat 200+ g of protein a day. I didn't see where
he said he was a bodybuilder or anything...

warehouse wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: warehouse wrote:
::::: Mark McArthey wrote:
:::::: As I've mentioned here before, I had done a cyclic ketogenic diet
:::::: before in conjunction with weight training per a diet/program
:::::: detailed by Lyle McDonald (as can be seen in
:::::: misc.fitness.weights). Anyway, now that I'm doing straight LC
:::::: I've found that my stamina is way down. My muscles
:::::
:::::: burn sooner and it's harder to maintain the reps with heavy
:::::: weights. It's been a while, but I recall seeing something about
:::::: using Vanadyl Sulfate to aid in insulin uptake. Is this true,
:::::: or still recommended? Any other ideas?
:::::: Thanks for any help,
:::::: Mark
::::::
:::::: 260/240/200 since: 18/01/2005
:::::
::::: Are you trying to bulk or cut?
::::: What's your bodyfat?
::::: Your 260/240/200 signifies a substantial cut is in order. Straight
::::: LC with 1gm protein per pound bodyweight ought to provide a good
::::: baseline for a Protein Sparing Modified Fast diet. 40 pounds to
::::: lose? If your shooting for 200 lbs all bulked-up you'll need to
::::: overshoot your target on fat loss and then bulk up to 200 lbs.
::::: Is that what you want to do?
:::
::: You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
::: Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't need
::: to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he won't
::: need that much protein.
::
:: 200 g protein per day @ 260 lbs would be 1.75 g/kg and be in the
:: target range for a strength athlete according to Lemon P. Is
:: increased dietary protein necessary or beneficial for individuals
:: with a
:: physically active lifestyle? Nutrition Reviews (1996) 54: S169-S175.

Does lifting weights make one a strength athlete? if it does, let me know so
I can refer to myself as such....

::
:: Extra protein will be "spill-over" and converted to glucose. The
:: extra glucose will supplement performance without increasing
:: carbohydrate intake. Sure protein is more expensive than carbs, but
:: Mark says he wants to increase stamina.

He wants to get it back up so he can complete his workouts...there are other
ways to do that. Firstly, he may find that if he continues on LC for a while
longer, he'll be able to complete those workouts just fine. If not, he can
simply up his carb level a bit, or do a TKD. He does need to get sufficient
protein, however.

Increasing the blood level
:: amino acids through over-compensating protein intake will allow
:: protein synthesis to increase due to his hypertrophic workouts
:: according to Oddoye EA., Margen S. Nitrogen balance studies in
:: humans: long-term effect of high nitrogen intake on nitrogen
:: accretion. J Nutr 109 (3): 363-77


How do you know his workouts will be hypertrophic?

::
:: I don't know what his LBM is though and he'll be able to trim the
:: protein as he loses more weight [read fat].

He can just up his carbs and eat about 150 g of protein a day and be just
fine. It is really hard to eat 200+ g of protein a day. I didn't see where
he said he was a bodybuilder or anything...

DJ Delorie wrote:
"Werlax" writes:

According to the BMI and insurance charts, my ideal weight is 190.
It seems ridiculous to me since that was my weight in high school.

BMI doesn't work for people outside the norm, either excessively
muscular or excessively not. If you can measure your %bf it's a
better indicator (15% being "ideal" for men).

Does that mean that J.ust C.ut DerKoenig needs to gain 5% BF?

There are a few around here that can help him with sumptuous helpings
of pancakes, noodles other "low carb" treats being eaten under the
guise of LC.

DJ Delorie wrote:
"Werlax" writes:

According to the BMI and insurance charts, my ideal weight is 190.
It seems ridiculous to me since that was my weight in high school.

BMI doesn't work for people outside the norm, either excessively
muscular or excessively not. If you can measure your %bf it's a
better indicator (15% being "ideal" for men).

Does that mean that J.ust C.ut DerKoenig needs to gain 5% BF?

There are a few around here that can help him with sumptuous helpings
of pancakes, noodles other "low carb" treats being eaten under the
guise of LC.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:27:45 -0500, Roger Zoul
wrote:

DJ Delorie wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" writes:
::: You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
::: Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't need
::: to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he won't
::: need that much protein.
::
:: Isn't protein intake tied to muscle *use*, not desire to gain?

It's tied to both...

If
:: you're lifting, you're still repairing muscle, and that's what the
:: extra protein is for.

Come now...DJ.... you do really believe that everytime you lift weights
you're damaging muscle to the extent that if you don't eat that much
protein
you'll lose the muscle? That level of protein intake hard to get eating
real food and while keep kcals low.

::
:: Also, protein intake is normally tied to LBM, not total weight,

Right.

which
:: makes a difference if you're overweight. For a PSMF, 200g/day sounds
:: about right to me, given his info.

What info? Plus, the guy said he is doing straight LC, not a PSMF.

I just started one and, for my
:: 135lbs LBM and lifting I'm at 170g protein per day.

Are you trying to gain?

We'd need to
:: know his %bf (or at least his height and build) to try to be more
:: accurate. But even 200g/day is still only 800 kcals/day, which is
:: plenty low enough for a PSMF cutting cycle.

Is this PSMF even proven?



Aren't all Lyle's ideas just based on research?

--
Bob in CT

Roger Zoul wrote:
DJ Delorie wrote:
:: "Werlax" writes:
::
::: My strength is way down, as well, and I'm anxious for
improvements
::: in that area. I worry that I'm limiting my gains since I seem to
::: burn out so much faster on low-carb.
::
:: Have you considered Lyle's new PSMF book?

Where is this new book?

::
::: According to the BMI and insurance charts, my ideal weight is
190.
::: It seems ridiculous to me since that was my weight in high
school.
::
:: BMI doesn't work for people outside the norm, either excessively
:: muscular or excessively not. If you can measure your %bf it's a
:: better indicator (15% being "ideal" for men).

Lyle's got two new ones:
The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook & A Guide to Flexible Dieting
Haven't read either other than the "galley proof" excerpts from his
bodyrecompsition site.

DJ Delorie wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" writes:
::: You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
::: Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't need
::: to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he won't
::: need that much protein.
::
:: Isn't protein intake tied to muscle *use*, not desire to gain?

It's tied to both...

If
:: you're lifting, you're still repairing muscle, and that's what the
:: extra protein is for.

Come now...DJ.... you do really believe that everytime you lift weights
you're damaging muscle to the extent that if you don't eat that much protein
you'll lose the muscle? That level of protein intake hard to get eating
real food and while keep kcals low.

::
:: Also, protein intake is normally tied to LBM, not total weight,

Right.

which
:: makes a difference if you're overweight. For a PSMF, 200g/day sounds
:: about right to me, given his info.

What info? Plus, the guy said he is doing straight LC, not a PSMF.

I just started one and, for my
:: 135lbs LBM and lifting I'm at 170g protein per day.

Are you trying to gain?

We'd need to
:: know his %bf (or at least his height and build) to try to be more
:: accurate. But even 200g/day is still only 800 kcals/day, which is
:: plenty low enough for a PSMF cutting cycle.

Is this PSMF even proven?