weight lifting and LC?

DJ Delorie wrote:
:: "Werlax" writes:
::
::: My strength is way down, as well, and I'm anxious for improvements
::: in that area. I worry that I'm limiting my gains since I seem to
::: burn out so much faster on low-carb.
::
:: Have you considered Lyle's new PSMF book?

Where is this new book?

::
::: According to the BMI and insurance charts, my ideal weight is 190.
::: It seems ridiculous to me since that was my weight in high school.
::
:: BMI doesn't work for people outside the norm, either excessively
:: muscular or excessively not. If you can measure your %bf it's a
:: better indicator (15% being "ideal" for men).

Thanks much for all the discussion. I didn't realize that I'd started up
such a hot topic.
I also didn't realize that Lyle had a new book out. I'll head out and see
about getting it.
For the time being, I'll stick to low carb and start doing some evaluation
on my actual counts... calories, grams of protein, etc. I'm not sure what
ratio of fat/protein I'm taking in. I tend to eat lots of vegetables and
lean meats and fish.
Even with the feeling that I don't have the same energy when exercising, I
was going to stay on LC until I'd at least come within 20 lbs or so of my
goal and re-evaluate. For now, though, I'll be sure to verify that I'm
getting enough protein (and not too much fat).
Thanks again,
Mark

Thanks much for all the discussion. I didn't realize that I'd started up
such a hot topic.
I also didn't realize that Lyle had a new book out. I'll head out and see
about getting it.
For the time being, I'll stick to low carb and start doing some evaluation
on my actual counts... calories, grams of protein, etc. I'm not sure what
ratio of fat/protein I'm taking in. I tend to eat lots of vegetables and
lean meats and fish.
Even with the feeling that I don't have the same energy when exercising, I
was going to stay on LC until I'd at least come within 20 lbs or so of my
goal and re-evaluate. For now, though, I'll be sure to verify that I'm
getting enough protein (and not too much fat).
Thanks again,
Mark

"Roger Zoul" writes:
:: Have you considered Lyle's new PSMF book?

Where is this new book?

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

It, and another one, were published just last week. The PSMF book is
entitled "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook: A Scientific Approach to Crash
Dieting". The other one is "A Guide to Flexible Dieting".

"Roger Zoul" writes:
:: Have you considered Lyle's new PSMF book?

Where is this new book?

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

It, and another one, were published just last week. The PSMF book is
entitled "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook: A Scientific Approach to Crash
Dieting". The other one is "A Guide to Flexible Dieting".

Bob M wrote:
:: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:27:45 -0500, Roger Zoul
:: wrote:
::
::: DJ Delorie wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" writes:
:::::: You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
:::::: Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't
:::::: need to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he
:::::: won't need that much protein.
:::::
::::: Isn't protein intake tied to muscle *use*, not desire to gain?
:::
::: It's tied to both...
:::
::: If
::::: you're lifting, you're still repairing muscle, and that's what the
::::: extra protein is for.
:::
::: Come now...DJ.... you do really believe that everytime you lift
::: weights you're damaging muscle to the extent that if you don't eat
::: that much protein
::: you'll lose the muscle? That level of protein intake hard to get
::: eating real food and while keep kcals low.
:::
:::::
::::: Also, protein intake is normally tied to LBM, not total weight,
:::
::: Right.
:::
::: which
::::: makes a difference if you're overweight. For a PSMF, 200g/day
::::: sounds about right to me, given his info.
:::
::: What info? Plus, the guy said he is doing straight LC, not a PSMF.
:::
::: I just started one and, for my
::::: 135lbs LBM and lifting I'm at 170g protein per day.
:::
::: Are you trying to gain?
:::
::: We'd need to
::::: know his %bf (or at least his height and build) to try to be more
::::: accurate. But even 200g/day is still only 800 kcals/day, which is
::::: plenty low enough for a PSMF cutting cycle.
:::
::: Is this PSMF even proven?
:::
:::
::
:: Aren't all Lyle's ideas just based on research?

Supposed to be. But PSMF is a crash diet approach as far as I know.

Bob M wrote:
:: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:27:45 -0500, Roger Zoul
:: wrote:
::
::: DJ Delorie wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" writes:
:::::: You're suggesting he eat 200 to 240 g of protein per day?
:::::: Obviously, he is trying to lose weight....As such, he doesn't
:::::: need to eat protein as if he's trying to add muscle mass, so he
:::::: won't need that much protein.
:::::
::::: Isn't protein intake tied to muscle *use*, not desire to gain?
:::
::: It's tied to both...
:::
::: If
::::: you're lifting, you're still repairing muscle, and that's what the
::::: extra protein is for.
:::
::: Come now...DJ.... you do really believe that everytime you lift
::: weights you're damaging muscle to the extent that if you don't eat
::: that much protein
::: you'll lose the muscle? That level of protein intake hard to get
::: eating real food and while keep kcals low.
:::
:::::
::::: Also, protein intake is normally tied to LBM, not total weight,
:::
::: Right.
:::
::: which
::::: makes a difference if you're overweight. For a PSMF, 200g/day
::::: sounds about right to me, given his info.
:::
::: What info? Plus, the guy said he is doing straight LC, not a PSMF.
:::
::: I just started one and, for my
::::: 135lbs LBM and lifting I'm at 170g protein per day.
:::
::: Are you trying to gain?
:::
::: We'd need to
::::: know his %bf (or at least his height and build) to try to be more
::::: accurate. But even 200g/day is still only 800 kcals/day, which is
::::: plenty low enough for a PSMF cutting cycle.
:::
::: Is this PSMF even proven?
:::
:::
::
:: Aren't all Lyle's ideas just based on research?

Supposed to be. But PSMF is a crash diet approach as far as I know.

warehouse wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: DJ Delorie wrote:
::::: "Werlax" writes:
:::::
:::::: My strength is way down, as well, and I'm anxious for
:::::: improvements in that area. I worry that I'm limiting my gains
:::::: since I seem to burn out so much faster on low-carb.
:::::
::::: Have you considered Lyle's new PSMF book?
:::
::: Where is this new book?
:::
:::::
:::::: According to the BMI and insurance charts, my ideal weight is
:::::: 190. It seems ridiculous to me since that was my weight in high
:::::: school.
:::::
::::: BMI doesn't work for people outside the norm, either excessively
::::: muscular or excessively not. If you can measure your %bf it's a
::::: better indicator (15% being "ideal" for men).
::
:: Lyle's got two new ones:
:: The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook & A Guide to Flexible Dieting
:: Haven't read either other than the "galley proof" excerpts from his
:: bodyrecompsition site.

Thanks for the info...I'll check them out.

I could see myself eating just shrimp for a week or two.

warehouse wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: DJ Delorie wrote:
::::: "Werlax" writes:
:::::
:::::: My strength is way down, as well, and I'm anxious for
:::::: improvements in that area. I worry that I'm limiting my gains
:::::: since I seem to burn out so much faster on low-carb.
:::::
::::: Have you considered Lyle's new PSMF book?
:::
::: Where is this new book?
:::
:::::
:::::: According to the BMI and insurance charts, my ideal weight is
:::::: 190. It seems ridiculous to me since that was my weight in high
:::::: school.
:::::
::::: BMI doesn't work for people outside the norm, either excessively
::::: muscular or excessively not. If you can measure your %bf it's a
::::: better indicator (15% being "ideal" for men).
::
:: Lyle's got two new ones:
:: The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook & A Guide to Flexible Dieting
:: Haven't read either other than the "galley proof" excerpts from his
:: bodyrecompsition site.

Thanks for the info...I'll check them out.

I could see myself eating just shrimp for a week or two.

"Roger Zoul" writes:
Come now...DJ.... you do really believe that everytime you lift
weights you're damaging muscle to the extent that if you don't eat
that much protein you'll lose the muscle?

Well, I know that gaining LBM is really hard, so I do want to be
careful not to lose it just because of a little dietary protein ;-)

But the idea of a PSMF protien level is to keep protein intake higher
than protein use, so the body doesn't have to break down muscle to
make glucose. Also, PSMF tries to avoid using dietary glucose for
that purpose. On plain LC you can add carbs for lifting (TKD), but
you're not supposed to on PSMF, which means a lot more protein.

That level of protein intake hard to get eating real food and while
keep kcals low.

Tell me about it! This is the first diet where I find it hard to eat
enough AND I'm hungry all the time.

What info? Plus, the guy said he is doing straight LC, not a PSMF.

Oh, right. I suppose each 1g/day carbs can offset 2g/day protein
then, so to get it down to 150g/day protein you'd need 100g/day carbs.

I just started one and, for my 135lbs LBM and lifting I'm at 170g
protein per day.

Are you trying to gain?

No, cut. I lift to stay in shape and hopefully encourage the weight
loss to be more fat than otherwise. My long term goal is to get below
15%bf then use UD2 to gain LBM while staying at or below 15%bf.