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Fat people, get real



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 10th, 2003, 08:13 PM
A J Davenport
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

Sarah Jane wrote in message ...
In A J Davenport wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
...
In A J Davenport
wrote:
Daedalus wrote in message news:
...
On 8 Dec 2003 12:36:55 -0800, (A J Davenport),
wrote:

(ADP) wrote in message news:HKFFNSRQ37963.
...
http://archive.salon.com/sept97/news/news970912.html

STOP THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE. Fat people,
get real! ---------------------------------------- STOP
THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE.


BY LORI LEIBOVICH | it's one of the great American paradoxes.
The more we snatch up diet books, ab busters and fen-phen, the
fatter we get. Approximately one-third of adult Americans are
overweight. Fatness -- more politely known as obesity --
results in hundreds of thousands of deaths each year from
heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and cancer.
Last year, a spate of "fat acceptance" books made us feel a
little better about our pear- shaped physiques. All of a sudden,
anti-diet authors fed us the tasty news: You can be fit and
fat. Enter Michael Fumento.

Gee, would this be the same Michael Fumento who claims that
hetrosexuals don't get AIDS?

Why am I not surprised to find you, yet again, distorting the
truth to give your own position more credibility?

Quotes directly from the horses ass:

AIDS:
Are Heterosexuals at Risk?
By Michael Fumento
Commentary Magazine, November 1987
Copyright 1987 Commentary Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/img1/fumentoglobe.gif

In fact, the risk to the male, or penetrating, partner of acquiring
AIDS in vaginal intercourse is so small that this alone could be
enough to prevent any substantial heterosexual spread of the
disease. Women, in other words, act as a "firebreak" against the
spread of the virus.

Do you see the words "the risk...is so small"? That's "small", not
"nonexistent".


Yes, and it does nothing to address that the highest risk group in the
heterosexual population is women who risk AIDS at a much higher rate
than men do in indulging in unprotected heterosexual sex.


First of all, that has nothing to do with your original statement.


Though I admit that no where does he say heterosexual people don't get
AIDS, it is implied in his blathering about the risk being
insignificant.

Secondly, that's not the point of the book.


Which you claim you haven't read further on. Tell me Sarah Jane how
do you know the point of the book without reading it?

The fastest growing segment of new AIDS cases is among women, who have
a much higher risk of transmission than men do.


And where does he say otherwise? He does not say that heterosexuals
don't get AIDS; he essentially says that it's unlikely to run rampant
through the heterosexual population, because although women can get it
from men, they're highly unlikely to spread it to other men.


So it is ok if women get AIDS because they can't pass it to men? What
about the AIDS children that will be born to the women who get AIDS
from the men because the risk is "so small" that men won't practice
safe sex because they aren't at risk?

His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places like
China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.

The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS:
The Hazard of Using Misiniformation
to Restore Morality
By Michael Fumento
Crisis Magazine, October 1988
Copyright 1988 by Crisis Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/hetmyth.html

10 years after the first heterosexual AIDS cases began showing up
in New York City, remains confined almost exclusively to
homosexuals, intravenous (IV) drug abusers, recipients of blood
products prior to 1986, and their steady sexual partners.

Do you see the word "almost" before the word "exclusively"?


Yes I did.

And by stating that you show rather narrow focus.


No, I was pointing out your error.


You were pointing out a single qualifier in each of the sentences.
IOW narrow focus.

The point is that
crap Fumento spews is not balanced.


That's not what you said originally - you said that he denied the
existence of heterosexual AIDS, which is not true. And what do you mean
by "balanced"? He's trying to make a point, one that you obviously don't
comprehend.


Just a cursory review of the writings on his web site reveals the
following in his writings.

AIDS is a very small risk to hetrosexuals.

Agent Orange is not to blame for any level of sickness in Vietnam vets
and gulf war syndrome is just the new agent orange.

Anti-abortion slant to many of his writings. Partial birth abortions
are mostly elective and not for genetic reasons.

Opposes environmental changes, seems to believe we aren't poisoning
the planet. Supports the wide spread use of pesticides despite health
risks associated with their use.

Is in favor of altering food with chemicals and radiation.

In general is pro-big business and makes no bones about showing that
stance with regard to chemical production, pharmaceuticals and breast
implant manufactures.

And we won't even go into his notoriously biased obesity news, which
includes parroting the 300,000 obesity deaths per year misinformation.

He is, of course entitled to his opinions. But don't expect people to
not see the blatant bias in the stuff he chooses to write about and
thus mistrust his writings. He is not a NEWS reporter, he is a
opinion writer.

It does not contain the
information necessary to protect a heterosexual person from
contracting AIDS,


Because that's not what the book is about. There's plenty of that
information available elsewhere.


And you, who admits that they have not read the book would know what
the book is about how?

It encourages them to take risks with their lives by
engaging in unprotected sex because they are sure that they as a
heterosexual are protected by the almost exclusive part of the above
statement.


Where does he tell people to engage in unprotected sex?


I didn't say he tells people to engage in unprotected sex. Re-read
the above paragraph for content. And a book with a title like The
Myth of Heterosexual AIDS implies that heterosexual people don't have
to protect themselves.

dmittedly, I
haven't read the book, but I've read excerpts and never seen anything of
the kind. Although he doesn't believe that there's a high risk of
contracting HIV through normal heterosexual contact, I don't think he
denies the risks of getting syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, HPV,
etc.


All of which are treatable, and when treated, far from life
threatening.


End quotes:

Looks a lot like denial of heterosexual AIDS to me.

Then you should learn to read.


And perhaps you should learn to read without such narrow focus.


You're the one with the narrow focus. You can't see the difference
between saying something is unlikely and saying it's impossible. You
also apparently don't understand the difference between talking about
individuals and populations, nor do you understand the difference
between a sex-ed manual and a political diatribe.


The whole point of my post is obviously wasted on you.

My post was in response to somebody posting one of Fumento's biased
pieces. I was telling people to be aware of the source of the
misinformation.

That you didn't choose to see that broad picture and then focused on
the use of two small qualifiers shows an incredibly narrow focus.

Fumenento is biased, and thus anything he writes should be viewed with
that piece of information firmly in mind.

AJ
Because, somebody has to be the Diva!
  #32  
Old December 11th, 2003, 01:48 AM
Sarah Jane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

In A J Davenport wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
...
In A J Davenport
wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
...
In A J Davenport
wrote:
Daedalus wrote in message news:
...
On 8 Dec 2003 12:36:55 -0800, (A J Davenport),
wrote:

(ADP) wrote in message news:HKFFNSRQ37963.
...
http://archive.salon.com/sept97/news/news970912.html

STOP THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE. Fat
people, get real! ----------------------------------------
STOP THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER
ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE.


BY LORI LEIBOVICH | it's one of the great American paradoxes.
The more we snatch up diet books, ab busters and fen-phen,
the fatter we get. Approximately one-third of adult
Americans are overweight. Fatness -- more politely known
as obesity -- results in hundreds of thousands of deaths
each year from heart disease, high blood pressure,
diabetes and cancer. Last year, a spate of "fat
acceptance" books made us feel a little better about our
pear- shaped physiques. All of a sudden, anti-diet authors
fed us the tasty news: You can be fit and fat. Enter
Michael Fumento.

Gee, would this be the same Michael Fumento who claims that
hetrosexuals don't get AIDS?

Why am I not surprised to find you, yet again, distorting the
truth to give your own position more credibility?

Quotes directly from the horses ass:

AIDS:
Are Heterosexuals at Risk?
By Michael Fumento
Commentary Magazine, November 1987
Copyright 1987 Commentary Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/img1/fumentoglobe.gif

In fact, the risk to the male, or penetrating, partner of
acquiring AIDS in vaginal intercourse is so small that this
alone could be enough to prevent any substantial heterosexual
spread of the disease. Women, in other words, act as a
"firebreak" against the spread of the virus.

Do you see the words "the risk...is so small"? That's "small", not
"nonexistent".

Yes, and it does nothing to address that the highest risk group in
the heterosexual population is women who risk AIDS at a much higher
rate than men do in indulging in unprotected heterosexual sex.


First of all, that has nothing to do with your original statement.


Though I admit that no where does he say heterosexual people don't get
AIDS, it is implied in his blathering about the risk being
insignificant.


No, he says specifically that heterosexuals can get AIDS, just that it's
not running rampant through the hetero population, and that it's not
going to.


Secondly, that's not the point of the book.


Which you claim you haven't read further on. Tell me Sarah Jane how
do you know the point of the book without reading it?


If you can't figure out what a book is about from reading reviews and
numerous excerpts, then you have a serious reading comprehension problem.

The fastest growing segment of new AIDS cases is among women, who
have a much higher risk of transmission than men do.


And where does he say otherwise? He does not say that heterosexuals
don't get AIDS; he essentially says that it's unlikely to run rampant
through the heterosexual population, because although women can get
it from men, they're highly unlikely to spread it to other men.


So it is ok if women get AIDS because they can't pass it to men?


That's not what he says. He says that because women are so unlikely to
pass it on to men, those men who are therefore *not* infected will *not*
pass it on to other women, who will therefore *not* pass it on to other
men, etc. He's not saying that it's okay for anyone to get AIDS. Once
again, you don't understand the difference between talking about
individuals and talking about populations.

What
about the AIDS children that will be born to the women who get AIDS
from the men because the risk is "so small" that men won't practice
safe sex because they aren't at risk?


And how are these men getting AIDS? The vast majority of women who get
AIDS are getting it by being regular sexual partners of IV drug users,
not from men who got AIDS through heterosexual sex. Therefore telling
those men that they don't need to protect *themselves* from getting AIDS
through hetero sex won't change anything. And any woman who is having
sex with an IV drug user is considered should know to protect herself.

His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places like
China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.


And those are places where needles are often reused for vaccinations and
for drawing blood, and places where people are already sick and have
open sores that facilitate transmission. And again, this has nothing
whatsoever to do with your original statement.


The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS:
The Hazard of Using Misiniformation
to Restore Morality
By Michael Fumento
Crisis Magazine, October 1988
Copyright 1988 by Crisis Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/hetmyth.html

10 years after the first heterosexual AIDS cases began showing
up in New York City, remains confined almost exclusively to
homosexuals, intravenous (IV) drug abusers, recipients of blood
products prior to 1986, and their steady sexual partners.

Do you see the word "almost" before the word "exclusively"?

Yes I did.

And by stating that you show rather narrow focus.


No, I was pointing out your error.


You were pointing out a single qualifier in each of the sentences.
IOW narrow focus.


The single qualifier that made your unqualified statement wrong.


The point is that
crap Fumento spews is not balanced.


That's not what you said originally - you said that he denied the
existence of heterosexual AIDS, which is not true. And what do you
mean by "balanced"? He's trying to make a point, one that you
obviously don't comprehend.


Just a cursory review of the writings on his web site reveals the
following in his writings.

AIDS is a very small risk to hetrosexuals.


Yes. And I see now you've decided he's saying there's a small risk,
rather than a non-existent one.

Agent Orange is not to blame for any level of sickness in Vietnam vets
and gulf war syndrome is just the new agent orange.


And this is relevant how?

And we won't even go into his notoriously biased obesity news, which
includes parroting the 300,000 obesity deaths per year misinformation.


Yes, that is misinformation - the paper I saw said 280,000. Do you think
that number is incorrect? If so, please point out the errors in the meta-
analysis.

He is, of course entitled to his opinions. But don't expect people to
not see the blatant bias in the stuff he chooses to write about and
thus mistrust his writings. He is not a NEWS reporter, he is a
opinion writer.


Yes, but he also presents facts, which you have yet to do.


It does not contain the
information necessary to protect a heterosexual person from
contracting AIDS,


Because that's not what the book is about. There's plenty of that
information available elsewhere.


And you, who admits that they have not read the book would know what
the book is about how?


Once again, if you're unable to tell what a book is about from reading
reviews and numerous excerpts, you have a serious reading comprehension
problem.


It encourages them to take risks with their lives by
engaging in unprotected sex because they are sure that they as a
heterosexual are protected by the almost exclusive part of the
above statement.


Where does he tell people to engage in unprotected sex?


I didn't say he tells people to engage in unprotected sex.


My mistake - you said he encourages them to. But I don't see that
anywhere either.

Re-read
the above paragraph for content. And a book with a title like The
Myth of Heterosexual AIDS implies that heterosexual people don't have
to protect themselves.


Only for people with reading comprehension problems.


dmittedly, I
haven't read the book, but I've read excerpts and never seen anything
of the kind. Although he doesn't believe that there's a high risk
of contracting HIV through normal heterosexual contact, I don't
think he denies the risks of getting syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia,
herpes, HPV, etc.


All of which are treatable, and when treated, far from life
threatening.


They're all treatable, but some of them are not curable. Furthermore,
some of them are potentially life-threatening, and there may not be any
symptoms until they've reached that point. The bottom line is that no
one would choose to have those conditions, and people who are informed
about those diseases, and who are concerned for their health, would
choose to protect themselves.



End quotes:

Looks a lot like denial of heterosexual AIDS to me.

Then you should learn to read.

And perhaps you should learn to read without such narrow focus.


You're the one with the narrow focus. You can't see the difference
between saying something is unlikely and saying it's impossible. You
also apparently don't understand the difference between talking about
individuals and populations, nor do you understand the difference
between a sex-ed manual and a political diatribe.


The whole point of my post is obviously wasted on you.


You keep changing your point, so no one can even tell what it is.


My post was in response to somebody posting one of Fumento's biased
pieces. I was telling people to be aware of the source of the
misinformation.


Right, and in doing so, you gave misinformation. So by your own logic,
no one should trust anything you say.


That you didn't choose to see that broad picture and then focused on
the use of two small qualifiers shows an incredibly narrow focus.


My point was that you were wrong. The most direct way to show how wrong
you were was to point out those qualifiers. Qualifiers may be small
words, but they can make a big difference.


Fumenento is biased, and thus anything he writes should be viewed with
that piece of information firmly in mind.


And obviously you're biased(and wrong), and anything you write should be
viewed with that piece of information in mind.
  #33  
Old December 11th, 2003, 09:55 AM
Brandon Berg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

"A J Davenport" wrote in message
om...
His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places like
China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.


According to Fumento, there is a chapter in his book devoted to this topic.
Here is a portion of his argument:

http://www.fumento.com/comment.html

Furthermore, a practice known as "dry sex," which is pretty much what it
sounds like, is widespread in Africa and contributes to increased
transmission rates, as may widespread malnutrition.

Whatever the reason, Fumento was absolutely correct about the transmission
patterns in the United States. The CDC attributes only 15% of all cases of
HIV in males to heterosexual activity, and this is almost certainly
overstated, given that the use of narcotics is illegal and that homosexual
is still largely taboo. There is really no way we can know for sure, but the
findings when claims of heterosexual transmission have been investigated
seem to suggest that it is substantially overstated.


  #34  
Old December 11th, 2003, 07:42 PM
Ralph DuBose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

"Brandon Berg" wrote in message news:oiWBb.507487$Fm2.491469@attbi_s04...
"A J Davenport" wrote in message
om...
His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places like
China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.


According to Fumento, there is a chapter in his book devoted to this topic.
Here is a portion of his argument:

http://www.fumento.com/comment.html

Furthermore, a practice known as "dry sex," which is pretty much what it
sounds like, is widespread in Africa and contributes to increased
transmission rates, as may widespread malnutrition.

Whatever the reason, Fumento was absolutely correct about the transmission
patterns in the United States. The CDC attributes only 15% of all cases of
HIV in males to heterosexual activity, and this is almost certainly
overstated, given that the use of narcotics is illegal and that homosexual
is still largely taboo. There is really no way we can know for sure, but the
findings when claims of heterosexual transmission have been investigated
seem to suggest that it is substantially overstated.


Fumentos basic point about about AIDS in healthy, non-drug using
heterosexuals has been amplily born out in experience. The incidence
of males getting the disease from females in N. America and W. Europe
has had many years to reveal itself and that incidence is very low.
Poor, sickly countries with peculiar sex practices are a different
matter, but then, they nearly always are when the subject is public
health and disease transmission. For example, many kinds of parasitic
worm infestation are extremely common all over the poor parts of
Africa and S. America but very rare in the affluent parts of those
continents. The difference is not because of the availability of
treatment, it is because malnutrition makes one much more vulnerable
to parasites. (Life is not fair).
In regard to genes and obesity: Virtually ever gene controls
something that effects calorie demand and utilization. It is stupid to
limit that figure to "300". It is even stupider to imagine that the
human genome would change drastically, almost over night, at the same
time that fatty food became popular and available and the TV remote
control came to be seen as an essential device, one supplied with even
the cheapest DVD player, as if it would be unimaginable to get off the
couch to control it.
  #35  
Old December 12th, 2003, 01:08 AM
A J Davenport
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

"Brandon Berg" wrote in message news:oiWBb.507487$Fm2.491469@attbi_s04...
"A J Davenport" wrote in message
om...
His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places like
China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.


According to Fumento, there is a chapter in his book devoted to this topic.
Here is a portion of his argument:

http://www.fumento.com/comment.html

Furthermore, a practice known as "dry sex," which is pretty much what it
sounds like, is widespread in Africa and contributes to increased
transmission rates, as may widespread malnutrition.


I've not heard of the "dry sex" practice. Though I can pretty much
imagine what that term implies.

There are a variety of reasons AIDS is widespread in Africa.
Probably the biggest single reason for the spread is the African
tradition of female circumcision.

And I don't understand how malnutrition could propagate the spreading
of AIDS. Care to tell me what you mean by that statement?

Whatever the reason, Fumento was absolutely correct about the transmission
patterns in the United States. The CDC attributes only 15% of all cases of
HIV in males to heterosexual activity, and this is almost certainly
overstated, given that the use of narcotics is illegal and that homosexual
is still largely taboo. There is really no way we can know for sure, but the
findings when claims of heterosexual transmission have been investigated
seem to suggest that it is substantially overstated.


It may very well be overstated in the US. But then the US is not
representative of the world.

There is a risk for heterosexuals and an even greater risk for female
heterosexuals.

Writings like Fumentos that don't address that risk in a responsible
way, do a great disservice.

AJ
Because, somebody has to be the Diva!
  #36  
Old December 12th, 2003, 01:08 AM
A J Davenport
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

Sarah Jane wrote in message ...
In A J Davenport wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
...
In A J Davenport
wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
...
In A J Davenport
wrote:
Daedalus wrote in message news:
...
On 8 Dec 2003 12:36:55 -0800, (A J Davenport),
wrote:

(ADP) wrote in message news:HKFFNSRQ37963.
...
http://archive.salon.com/sept97/news/news970912.html

STOP THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE. Fat
people, get real! ----------------------------------------
STOP THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER
ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE.


BY LORI LEIBOVICH | it's one of the great American paradoxes.
The more we snatch up diet books, ab busters and fen-phen,
the fatter we get. Approximately one-third of adult
Americans are overweight. Fatness -- more politely known
as obesity -- results in hundreds of thousands of deaths
each year from heart disease, high blood pressure,
diabetes and cancer. Last year, a spate of "fat
acceptance" books made us feel a little better about our
pear- shaped physiques. All of a sudden, anti-diet authors
fed us the tasty news: You can be fit and fat. Enter
Michael Fumento.

Gee, would this be the same Michael Fumento who claims that
hetrosexuals don't get AIDS?

Why am I not surprised to find you, yet again, distorting the
truth to give your own position more credibility?

Quotes directly from the horses ass:

AIDS:
Are Heterosexuals at Risk?
By Michael Fumento
Commentary Magazine, November 1987
Copyright 1987 Commentary Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/img1/fumentoglobe.gif

In fact, the risk to the male, or penetrating, partner of
acquiring AIDS in vaginal intercourse is so small that this
alone could be enough to prevent any substantial heterosexual
spread of the disease. Women, in other words, act as a
"firebreak" against the spread of the virus.

Do you see the words "the risk...is so small"? That's "small", not
"nonexistent".

Yes, and it does nothing to address that the highest risk group in
the heterosexual population is women who risk AIDS at a much higher
rate than men do in indulging in unprotected heterosexual sex.

First of all, that has nothing to do with your original statement.


Though I admit that no where does he say heterosexual people don't get
AIDS, it is implied in his blathering about the risk being
insignificant.


No, he says specifically that heterosexuals can get AIDS, just that it's
not running rampant through the hetero population, and that it's not
going to.


In the US perhaps he is correct. But the US is hardly representative
of the world.

Secondly, that's not the point of the book.


Which you claim you haven't read further on. Tell me Sarah Jane how
do you know the point of the book without reading it?


If you can't figure out what a book is about from reading reviews and
numerous excerpts, then you have a serious reading comprehension problem.


Nice ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.

I agree with you in theory, but this whole debate started because I
see Fumento's writings, his bias and campaign of misinformation for
what it is. And reviews of his books point that out pretty well.

The fastest growing segment of new AIDS cases is among women, who
have a much higher risk of transmission than men do.

And where does he say otherwise? He does not say that heterosexuals
don't get AIDS; he essentially says that it's unlikely to run rampant
through the heterosexual population, because although women can get
it from men, they're highly unlikely to spread it to other men.


So it is ok if women get AIDS because they can't pass it to men?


That's not what he says. He says that because women are so unlikely to
pass it on to men, those men who are therefore *not* infected will *not*
pass it on to other women, who will therefore *not* pass it on to other
men, etc. He's not saying that it's okay for anyone to get AIDS. Once
again, you don't understand the difference between talking about
individuals and talking about populations.


The implication is there, if you chose not to see it than you are not
reading for content.

What
about the AIDS children that will be born to the women who get AIDS
from the men because the risk is "so small" that men won't practice
safe sex because they aren't at risk?


And how are these men getting AIDS? The vast majority of women who get
AIDS are getting it by being regular sexual partners of IV drug users,


Can you provide statistics that support this?

not from men who got AIDS through heterosexual sex.


I would say that the vast majority of women who get AIDS are getting
by being regular sexual partners of bisexual/homosexual [out or
closeted] men.

Therefore telling
those men that they don't need to protect *themselves* from getting AIDS
through hetero sex won't change anything. And any woman who is having
sex with an IV drug user is considered should know to protect herself.


Any woman who is having sex with any man [bi, iv drug user,
hemophiliac, whatever] should be protecting herself.

When a woman has sex with a man, she is having sex with every person
he has had sex with for the last 7-15 years [the incubation period]
and given that most men have sex with many more partners than most
women, that is a huge risk.

His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places like
China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.


And those are places where needles are often reused for vaccinations and
for drawing blood, and places where people are already sick and have
open sores that facilitate transmission.


Among other things that facilitate transmission, between heterosexual
populations.

It doesn't matter how somebody gets AIDS for this debate only that
they are heterosexual.

And again, this has nothing
whatsoever to do with your original statement.


My original statement was to consider the source. That is, the
writings of Michael Fumento

The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS:
The Hazard of Using Misiniformation
to Restore Morality
By Michael Fumento
Crisis Magazine, October 1988
Copyright 1988 by Crisis Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/hetmyth.html

10 years after the first heterosexual AIDS cases began showing
up in New York City, remains confined almost exclusively to
homosexuals, intravenous (IV) drug abusers, recipients of blood
products prior to 1986, and their steady sexual partners.

Do you see the word "almost" before the word "exclusively"?

Yes I did.

And by stating that you show rather narrow focus.

No, I was pointing out your error.


You were pointing out a single qualifier in each of the sentences.
IOW narrow focus.


The single qualifier that made your unqualified statement wrong.


Correct. I did overstate my case. Sarcasm aside.

The point is that
crap Fumento spews is not balanced.

That's not what you said originally -


What I said is that the reader should consider the source of the
information.

you said that he denied the
existence of heterosexual AIDS, which is not true.


No, that is not what I said. I said he claims that heterosexual
people don't get AIDS.

Of course we both knew that isn't true.

And what do you
mean by "balanced"? He's trying to make a point, one that you
obviously don't comprehend.


So you do comprehend his point? What point would that be? That
heterosexual don't need to worry about AIDS because the chances that
they are going to get it is so small? Or the point that only women
need to really worry about protecting themselves because the chances
of a heterosexual man getting it from a woman are almost negligible?

The above is obviously his point from the writings I quoted.

Just a cursory review of the writings on his web site reveals the
following in his writings.

AIDS is a very small risk to heterosexuals.


Yes. And I see now you've decided he's saying there's a small risk,
rather than a non-existent one.


I did overstate. Sarcasm is impossible to discern in typed
communication.

Agent Orange is not to blame for any level of sickness in Vietnam vets
and gulf war syndrome is just the new agent orange.


And this is relevant how?


Shows a pattern of spreading misinformation on Fumento's part. As do
the other examples cited in my last message.

And we won't even go into his notoriously biased obesity news, which
includes parroting the 300,000 obesity deaths per year misinformation.


Yes, that is misinformation - the paper I saw said 280,000. Do you think
that number is incorrect?


Yes, as the original study writers did not attribute the deaths to
obesity.

If so, please point out the errors in the meta-
analysis.


The deaths are attributed to high fat diets and/or sedentary life
style. Not the same thing as obesity.

He is, of course entitled to his opinions. But don't expect people to
not see the blatant bias in the stuff he chooses to write about and
thus mistrust his writings. He is not a NEWS reporter, he is a
opinion writer.


Yes, but he also presents facts, which you have yet to do.


I'm expressing my opinion, just as Fumento does. Facts that he uses
to further his agenda while ignoring other facts that do not, do
nothing to promote truth.

It does not contain the
information necessary to protect a heterosexual person from
contracting AIDS,

Because that's not what the book is about. There's plenty of that
information available elsewhere.


And you, who admits that they have not read the book would know what
the book is about how?


Once again, if you're unable to tell what a book is about from reading
reviews and numerous excerpts, you have a serious reading comprehension
problem.


Repetitive ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.

It encourages them to take risks with their lives by
engaging in unprotected sex because they are sure that they as a
heterosexual are protected by the almost exclusive part of the
above statement.

Where does he tell people to engage in unprotected sex?


I didn't say he tells people to engage in unprotected sex.


My mistake - you said he encourages them to. But I don't see that
anywhere either.


By downplaying the risks, he encourage people to engage in unsafe
behavior.

Re-read
the above paragraph for content. And a book with a title like The
Myth of Heterosexual AIDS implies that heterosexual people don't have
to protect themselves.


Only for people with reading comprehension problems.


Really repetitive ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.

admittedly, I
haven't read the book, but I've read excerpts and never seen anything
of the kind. Although he doesn't believe that there's a high risk
of contracting HIV through normal heterosexual contact, I don't
think he denies the risks of getting syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia,
herpes, HPV, etc.


All of which are treatable, and when treated, far from life
threatening.


They're all treatable, but some of them are not curable.


But when treated, even if not cured [herpes, warts, etc.], they are
not life threatening.

Furthermore,
some of them are potentially life-threatening, and there may not be any
symptoms until they've reached that point. The bottom line is that no
one would choose to have those conditions, and people who are informed
about those diseases, and who are concerned for their health, would
choose to protect themselves.


Yes, and misinformation like The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS does
nothing to encourage people to protect themselves.

End quotes:

Looks a lot like denial of heterosexual AIDS to me.

Then you should learn to read.

And perhaps you should learn to read without such narrow focus.

You're the one with the narrow focus. You can't see the difference
between saying something is unlikely and saying it's impossible. You
also apparently don't understand the difference between talking about
individuals and populations, nor do you understand the difference
between a sex-ed manual and a political diatribe.


The whole point of my post is obviously wasted on you.


You keep changing your point, so no one can even tell what it is.


No, you just chose not to see the original point which was that people
should consider the source of the information of the original article.

My post was in response to somebody posting one of Fumento's biased
pieces. I was telling people to be aware of the source of the
misinformation.


Right, and in doing so, you gave misinformation. So by your own logic,
no one should trust anything you say.


I did give misinformation that is true. And you have the right to not
trust what I say.

Just as I have the right not to trust anything Fumento has to say.

That you didn't choose to see that broad picture and then focused on
the use of two small qualifiers shows an incredibly narrow focus.


My point was that you were wrong. The most direct way to show how wrong
you were was to point out those qualifiers. Qualifiers may be small
words, but they can make a big difference.


The difference between small and none, yes that is a difference. A
small difference.

Fumento is biased, and thus anything he writes should be viewed with
that piece of information firmly in mind.


And obviously you're biased(and wrong), and anything you write should be
viewed with that piece of information in mind.


Yes, I am biased against Fumento and his rants, roudly so. If you
chose to see that as wrong, you have that right. But that doesn't
make everything I've said wrong.

AJ
Because, somebody has to be the Diva!
  #37  
Old December 12th, 2003, 01:08 AM
A J Davenport
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

Sarah Jane wrote in message ...
In A J Davenport wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
...
In A J Davenport
wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
...
In A J Davenport
wrote:
Daedalus wrote in message news:
...
On 8 Dec 2003 12:36:55 -0800, (A J Davenport),
wrote:

(ADP) wrote in message news:HKFFNSRQ37963.
...
http://archive.salon.com/sept97/news/news970912.html

STOP THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE. Fat
people, get real! ----------------------------------------
STOP THE INSANITY, GET OUT OF THE ZONE. AND DON'T, UNDER
ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TELL YOURSELF IT'S OK TO BE OBESE.


BY LORI LEIBOVICH | it's one of the great American paradoxes.
The more we snatch up diet books, ab busters and fen-phen,
the fatter we get. Approximately one-third of adult
Americans are overweight. Fatness -- more politely known
as obesity -- results in hundreds of thousands of deaths
each year from heart disease, high blood pressure,
diabetes and cancer. Last year, a spate of "fat
acceptance" books made us feel a little better about our
pear- shaped physiques. All of a sudden, anti-diet authors
fed us the tasty news: You can be fit and fat. Enter
Michael Fumento.

Gee, would this be the same Michael Fumento who claims that
hetrosexuals don't get AIDS?

Why am I not surprised to find you, yet again, distorting the
truth to give your own position more credibility?

Quotes directly from the horses ass:

AIDS:
Are Heterosexuals at Risk?
By Michael Fumento
Commentary Magazine, November 1987
Copyright 1987 Commentary Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/img1/fumentoglobe.gif

In fact, the risk to the male, or penetrating, partner of
acquiring AIDS in vaginal intercourse is so small that this
alone could be enough to prevent any substantial heterosexual
spread of the disease. Women, in other words, act as a
"firebreak" against the spread of the virus.

Do you see the words "the risk...is so small"? That's "small", not
"nonexistent".

Yes, and it does nothing to address that the highest risk group in
the heterosexual population is women who risk AIDS at a much higher
rate than men do in indulging in unprotected heterosexual sex.

First of all, that has nothing to do with your original statement.


Though I admit that no where does he say heterosexual people don't get
AIDS, it is implied in his blathering about the risk being
insignificant.


No, he says specifically that heterosexuals can get AIDS, just that it's
not running rampant through the hetero population, and that it's not
going to.


In the US perhaps he is correct. But the US is hardly representative
of the world.

Secondly, that's not the point of the book.


Which you claim you haven't read further on. Tell me Sarah Jane how
do you know the point of the book without reading it?


If you can't figure out what a book is about from reading reviews and
numerous excerpts, then you have a serious reading comprehension problem.


Nice ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.

I agree with you in theory, but this whole debate started because I
see Fumento's writings, his bias and campaign of misinformation for
what it is. And reviews of his books point that out pretty well.

The fastest growing segment of new AIDS cases is among women, who
have a much higher risk of transmission than men do.

And where does he say otherwise? He does not say that heterosexuals
don't get AIDS; he essentially says that it's unlikely to run rampant
through the heterosexual population, because although women can get
it from men, they're highly unlikely to spread it to other men.


So it is ok if women get AIDS because they can't pass it to men?


That's not what he says. He says that because women are so unlikely to
pass it on to men, those men who are therefore *not* infected will *not*
pass it on to other women, who will therefore *not* pass it on to other
men, etc. He's not saying that it's okay for anyone to get AIDS. Once
again, you don't understand the difference between talking about
individuals and talking about populations.


The implication is there, if you chose not to see it than you are not
reading for content.

What
about the AIDS children that will be born to the women who get AIDS
from the men because the risk is "so small" that men won't practice
safe sex because they aren't at risk?


And how are these men getting AIDS? The vast majority of women who get
AIDS are getting it by being regular sexual partners of IV drug users,


Can you provide statistics that support this?

not from men who got AIDS through heterosexual sex.


I would say that the vast majority of women who get AIDS are getting
by being regular sexual partners of bisexual/homosexual [out or
closeted] men.

Therefore telling
those men that they don't need to protect *themselves* from getting AIDS
through hetero sex won't change anything. And any woman who is having
sex with an IV drug user is considered should know to protect herself.


Any woman who is having sex with any man [bi, iv drug user,
hemophiliac, whatever] should be protecting herself.

When a woman has sex with a man, she is having sex with every person
he has had sex with for the last 7-15 years [the incubation period]
and given that most men have sex with many more partners than most
women, that is a huge risk.

His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places like
China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.


And those are places where needles are often reused for vaccinations and
for drawing blood, and places where people are already sick and have
open sores that facilitate transmission.


Among other things that facilitate transmission, between heterosexual
populations.

It doesn't matter how somebody gets AIDS for this debate only that
they are heterosexual.

And again, this has nothing
whatsoever to do with your original statement.


My original statement was to consider the source. That is, the
writings of Michael Fumento

The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS:
The Hazard of Using Misiniformation
to Restore Morality
By Michael Fumento
Crisis Magazine, October 1988
Copyright 1988 by Crisis Magazine
http://www.fumento.com/hetmyth.html

10 years after the first heterosexual AIDS cases began showing
up in New York City, remains confined almost exclusively to
homosexuals, intravenous (IV) drug abusers, recipients of blood
products prior to 1986, and their steady sexual partners.

Do you see the word "almost" before the word "exclusively"?

Yes I did.

And by stating that you show rather narrow focus.

No, I was pointing out your error.


You were pointing out a single qualifier in each of the sentences.
IOW narrow focus.


The single qualifier that made your unqualified statement wrong.


Correct. I did overstate my case. Sarcasm aside.

The point is that
crap Fumento spews is not balanced.

That's not what you said originally -


What I said is that the reader should consider the source of the
information.

you said that he denied the
existence of heterosexual AIDS, which is not true.


No, that is not what I said. I said he claims that heterosexual
people don't get AIDS.

Of course we both knew that isn't true.

And what do you
mean by "balanced"? He's trying to make a point, one that you
obviously don't comprehend.


So you do comprehend his point? What point would that be? That
heterosexual don't need to worry about AIDS because the chances that
they are going to get it is so small? Or the point that only women
need to really worry about protecting themselves because the chances
of a heterosexual man getting it from a woman are almost negligible?

The above is obviously his point from the writings I quoted.

Just a cursory review of the writings on his web site reveals the
following in his writings.

AIDS is a very small risk to heterosexuals.


Yes. And I see now you've decided he's saying there's a small risk,
rather than a non-existent one.


I did overstate. Sarcasm is impossible to discern in typed
communication.

Agent Orange is not to blame for any level of sickness in Vietnam vets
and gulf war syndrome is just the new agent orange.


And this is relevant how?


Shows a pattern of spreading misinformation on Fumento's part. As do
the other examples cited in my last message.

And we won't even go into his notoriously biased obesity news, which
includes parroting the 300,000 obesity deaths per year misinformation.


Yes, that is misinformation - the paper I saw said 280,000. Do you think
that number is incorrect?


Yes, as the original study writers did not attribute the deaths to
obesity.

If so, please point out the errors in the meta-
analysis.


The deaths are attributed to high fat diets and/or sedentary life
style. Not the same thing as obesity.

He is, of course entitled to his opinions. But don't expect people to
not see the blatant bias in the stuff he chooses to write about and
thus mistrust his writings. He is not a NEWS reporter, he is a
opinion writer.


Yes, but he also presents facts, which you have yet to do.


I'm expressing my opinion, just as Fumento does. Facts that he uses
to further his agenda while ignoring other facts that do not, do
nothing to promote truth.

It does not contain the
information necessary to protect a heterosexual person from
contracting AIDS,

Because that's not what the book is about. There's plenty of that
information available elsewhere.


And you, who admits that they have not read the book would know what
the book is about how?


Once again, if you're unable to tell what a book is about from reading
reviews and numerous excerpts, you have a serious reading comprehension
problem.


Repetitive ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.

It encourages them to take risks with their lives by
engaging in unprotected sex because they are sure that they as a
heterosexual are protected by the almost exclusive part of the
above statement.

Where does he tell people to engage in unprotected sex?


I didn't say he tells people to engage in unprotected sex.


My mistake - you said he encourages them to. But I don't see that
anywhere either.


By downplaying the risks, he encourage people to engage in unsafe
behavior.

Re-read
the above paragraph for content. And a book with a title like The
Myth of Heterosexual AIDS implies that heterosexual people don't have
to protect themselves.


Only for people with reading comprehension problems.


Really repetitive ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.

admittedly, I
haven't read the book, but I've read excerpts and never seen anything
of the kind. Although he doesn't believe that there's a high risk
of contracting HIV through normal heterosexual contact, I don't
think he denies the risks of getting syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia,
herpes, HPV, etc.


All of which are treatable, and when treated, far from life
threatening.


They're all treatable, but some of them are not curable.


But when treated, even if not cured [herpes, warts, etc.], they are
not life threatening.

Furthermore,
some of them are potentially life-threatening, and there may not be any
symptoms until they've reached that point. The bottom line is that no
one would choose to have those conditions, and people who are informed
about those diseases, and who are concerned for their health, would
choose to protect themselves.


Yes, and misinformation like The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS does
nothing to encourage people to protect themselves.

End quotes:

Looks a lot like denial of heterosexual AIDS to me.

Then you should learn to read.

And perhaps you should learn to read without such narrow focus.

You're the one with the narrow focus. You can't see the difference
between saying something is unlikely and saying it's impossible. You
also apparently don't understand the difference between talking about
individuals and populations, nor do you understand the difference
between a sex-ed manual and a political diatribe.


The whole point of my post is obviously wasted on you.


You keep changing your point, so no one can even tell what it is.


No, you just chose not to see the original point which was that people
should consider the source of the information of the original article.

My post was in response to somebody posting one of Fumento's biased
pieces. I was telling people to be aware of the source of the
misinformation.


Right, and in doing so, you gave misinformation. So by your own logic,
no one should trust anything you say.


I did give misinformation that is true. And you have the right to not
trust what I say.

Just as I have the right not to trust anything Fumento has to say.

That you didn't choose to see that broad picture and then focused on
the use of two small qualifiers shows an incredibly narrow focus.


My point was that you were wrong. The most direct way to show how wrong
you were was to point out those qualifiers. Qualifiers may be small
words, but they can make a big difference.


The difference between small and none, yes that is a difference. A
small difference.

Fumento is biased, and thus anything he writes should be viewed with
that piece of information firmly in mind.


And obviously you're biased(and wrong), and anything you write should be
viewed with that piece of information in mind.


Yes, I am biased against Fumento and his rants, proudly so. If you
chose to see that as wrong, you have that right. But that doesn't
make everything I've said wrong.

AJ
Because, somebody has to be the Diva!
  #40  
Old December 12th, 2003, 02:14 AM
Sarah Jane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat people, get real

In A J Davenport wrote:
Sarah Jane wrote in message news:
Though I admit that no where does he say heterosexual people don't
get AIDS, it is implied in his blathering about the risk being
insignificant.


No, he says specifically that heterosexuals can get AIDS, just that
it's not running rampant through the hetero population, and that
it's not going to.


In the US perhaps he is correct. But the US is hardly representative
of the world.


The book is mainly about the US.


Which you claim you haven't read further on. Tell me Sarah Jane
how do you know the point of the book without reading it?


If you can't figure out what a book is about from reading reviews and
numerous excerpts, then you have a serious reading comprehension
problem.


Nice ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.


It's "ad hominem", but that's not an ad hominem attack. You asked me how
I knew the point of the book, and I told you. And furthermore, your
entire argument has been an ad hominem attack on Fumento.

So it is ok if women get AIDS because they can't pass it to men?


That's not what he says. He says that because women are so unlikely
to pass it on to men, those men who are therefore *not* infected
will *not* pass it on to other women, who will therefore *not* pass
it on to other men, etc. He's not saying that it's okay for anyone
to get AIDS. Once again, you don't understand the difference between
talking about individuals and talking about populations.


The implication is there, if you chose not to see it than you are not
reading for content.


No, it's not there. You're not reading for content. You still don't
understand the difference between talking about populations and talking
about individuals.

What
about the AIDS children that will be born to the women who get AIDS
from the men because the risk is "so small" that men won't practice
safe sex because they aren't at risk?


And how are these men getting AIDS? The vast majority of women who
get AIDS are getting it by being regular sexual partners of IV drug
users,


Can you provide statistics that support this?


Not off the top of my head, but I can probably find them.


not from men who got AIDS through heterosexual sex.


I would say that the vast majority of women who get AIDS are getting
by being regular sexual partners of bisexual/homosexual [out or
closeted] men.


Do you have statistics for this?

Any woman who is having sex with any man [bi, iv drug user,
hemophiliac, whatever] should be protecting herself.

When a woman has sex with a man, she is having sex with every person
he has had sex with for the last 7-15 years [the incubation period]
and given that most men have sex with many more partners than most
women, that is a huge risk.


No, she is not having sex with everyone he's had sex with for the last 7-
15 years. Read the part again about how unlikely it is for a man to get
HIV from a woman.

His information also ignores the rampant spread of AIDS in places
like China, Africa and India where the rise is primarily among the
Heterosexual population.


And those are places where needles are often reused for vaccinations
and for drawing blood, and places where people are already sick and
have open sores that facilitate transmission.


Among other things that facilitate transmission, between heterosexual
populations.

It doesn't matter how somebody gets AIDS for this debate only that
they are heterosexual.


No, the debate is not about heterosexuals getting AIDS; it's about
people getting AIDS through heterosexual sex.


And again, this has nothing
whatsoever to do with your original statement.


My original statement was to consider the source. That is, the
writings of Michael Fumento


There you go, getting all ad hominem.


The point is that
crap Fumento spews is not balanced.

That's not what you said originally -


What I said is that the reader should consider the source of the
information.


Right. See above.


you said that he denied the
existence of heterosexual AIDS, which is not true.


No, that is not what I said. I said he claims that heterosexual
people don't get AIDS.


How is that different?


Of course we both knew that isn't true.


Right, and it's not what he said.

And what do you
mean by "balanced"? He's trying to make a point, one that you
obviously don't comprehend.


So you do comprehend his point? What point would that be? That
heterosexual don't need to worry about AIDS because the chances that
they are going to get it is so small? Or the point that only women
need to really worry about protecting themselves because the chances
of a heterosexual man getting it from a woman are almost negligible?


Actually, his point is that because the risk to the general population
is so small, much of the money that's being spent to inform/scare the
crap out of the general population would be better spent on AIDS
prevention for people who truly are in high-risk groups.

The above is obviously his point from the writings I quoted.


Which are taken out of context. How about this, from http://www.fumento.
com/mythexc.html

"But what can be said with certainty is that during the six years that
I have labored to get our nation to treat AIDS like a disease instead of
a political weapon, hundreds of millions of AIDS-designated dollars have
been squandered and tens of thousands of Americans have been needlessly
infected and will die horribly. No matter how successful the second
edition of this book, it will never bring them back."

Do you still think he's saying that it's okay for people to get AIDS?

And we won't even go into his notoriously biased obesity news,
which includes parroting the 300,000 obesity deaths per year
misinformation.


Yes, that is misinformation - the paper I saw said 280,000. Do you
think that number is incorrect?


Yes, as the original study writers did not attribute the deaths to
obesity.


"Obesity" is not listed on death certificates.

If so, please point out the errors in the meta-
analysis.


The deaths are attributed to high fat diets and/or sedentary life
style.


Attributed by whom? I don't think we're talking about the same paper.

Not the same thing as obesity.


No, it's not. However, the paper I'm referring to correlated BMI (which
in populations, although not necessarily in individuals, is a suitable
proxy for body composition) with mortality. This is the abstract for the
one I'm talking about.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/282/16/1530


It does not contain the
information necessary to protect a heterosexual person from
contracting AIDS,

Because that's not what the book is about. There's plenty of that
information available elsewhere.

And you, who admits that they have not read the book would know
what the book is about how?


Once again, if you're unable to tell what a book is about from
reading reviews and numerous excerpts, you have a serious reading
comprehension problem.


Repetitive ad homium attack there, Sarah Jane.


It's still "ad hominem", and it's still not an ad hominem attack. I know
that the book is not a sex-ed manual. If you read the excerpts, you'd
know that too.

It encourages them to take risks with their lives by
engaging in unprotected sex because they are sure that they as a
heterosexual are protected by the almost exclusive part of the
above statement.

Where does he tell people to engage in unprotected sex?

I didn't say he tells people to engage in unprotected sex.


My mistake - you said he encourages them to. But I don't see that
anywhere either.


By downplaying the risks, he encourage people to engage in unsafe
behavior.


Maybe if they take his statements out of context, as you're doing.

admittedly, I
haven't read the book, but I've read excerpts and never seen
anything of the kind. Although he doesn't believe that there's
a high risk of contracting HIV through normal heterosexual
contact, I don't think he denies the risks of getting syphilis,
gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, HPV, etc.

All of which are treatable, and when treated, far from life
threatening.


They're all treatable, but some of them are not curable.


But when treated, even if not cured [herpes, warts, etc.], they are
not life threatening.


But many of them don't get treated, because they don't have symptoms.
And still, no one would choose to have them.


Furthermore,
some of them are potentially life-threatening, and there may not be
any symptoms until they've reached that point. The bottom line is
that no one would choose to have those conditions, and people who
are informed about those diseases, and who are concerned for their
health, would choose to protect themselves.


Yes, and misinformation like The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS does
nothing to encourage people to protect themselves.


Because as I said, it's not a sex-ed manual.


You're the one with the narrow focus. You can't see the difference
between saying something is unlikely and saying it's impossible.
You also apparently don't understand the difference between
talking about individuals and populations, nor do you understand
the difference between a sex-ed manual and a political diatribe.

The whole point of my post is obviously wasted on you.


You keep changing your point, so no one can even tell what it is.


No, you just chose not to see the original point which was that people
should consider the source of the information of the original article.


IOW your point was your ad hominem attack.

Fumento is biased, and thus anything he writes should be viewed
with that piece of information firmly in mind.


And obviously you're biased(and wrong), and anything you write should
be viewed with that piece of information in mind.


Yes, I am biased against Fumento and his rants, proudly so. If you
chose to see that as wrong, you have that right. But that doesn't
make everything I've said wrong.



So if Fumento has said things that are wrong, everything he says is
wrong. But if you say things that are wrong, it doesn't mean everything
you say is wrong. Do I have that right?
 




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