And since we were on the subject of hypertension...

On Jun 13, 12:33*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:49:09 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
There you go again. I never said anything about not trying
anything else first.

Then why are you gnawing on my ankles again???

Because that's all I'm saying here, and that's all Dr. Briffa is
saying!

One more time. *Dr. Briffa did an analysis where he
claimed that you have to treat 32 men in order to avoid
one stroke in 5 years. *He then called the benefit of
avoiding one stroke in 5 years a "slim benefit".

And that's what it is, for the very reasons I've already explained.

You haven't explained it. All you've done is to start
attacking me and trying to shift the issue away to
something else. It can't be explained because any
reasonable person would never consider preventing
one stroke among 32 men over 5 years a "slim benefit".
Many of those strokes would
result in death or lifelong disabilities. And the healthcare
costs associated with the hospital stays, rehabilitation,
economic loss, etc are staggering. Preventing all that
is a huge benefit.



Most people wouldn't think it's a "huge benefit" if the side effects
of taking the drugs can also result in DEATH, among a long list of
life-long, debilitating effects.

The side effect of most drugs includes possible death.

Exactly. And that's why they should always be the last resort.

But even the other side effects from taking BP meds are nothing to
sniff at, e.g., impotence, dizziness, low blood sugar, muscle cramps,
constipation, headaches, bleeding gums, etc. - for essentially the
rest of one's life.


BP medications are generally well tolerated. There are
many of them. Hundreds of millions of people use them.
If one happens to cause problems for a
patient, they can usually find another one that works fine.
And where one is likely to experience the side effects,
ie those patients with very high blood pressure, requiring
higher dosages, etc. are also the very patients who need
the drugs the most.





And only some moron like you would call them "idiots."

Now, instead of staying on the point, you claim I'm
advocating people not try to lower their blood pressure
first by losing weight, exercise, etc.

That's pretty much what you were doing, otherwise there would have
been no need to reply.

QED.

You clearly have a problem with anyone who makes
any kind of comment regarding even a part of the
stuff you post.

The only reason you're even commenting on this post is because we
despise each other. And you see it as your job to harass me about
anything I post here.

I read what Dr. Briffa wrote. And he's coming from a
very strange viewpoint, where avoiding one person
in 32 having a stroke every 5 years is a "slim benefit".
That was certainly worthy of comment and that is why
I made the comment. You, then took
that personally, because the facts
don't agree with your little preconceived world.




Well, good luck with that, asshole!

Hypertension can also run in families, and may be absolutely nothing
to worry about.

I'm sure we'd all like to see the study that supports
that conclusion.

You can look it up. Well, maybe you can't, but anyone else can.

In other words, as usual, you have no supporting
data.



If everyone in a family has elevated BP, but live
average lives, don't have strokes or heart attacks, why would you
necessarily want to lower it in the first place,

Study please to show that this pure speculation
exists. *Otherwise, it's just a strawman.

You can look it up.

In other words, as usual, you have no supporting
data.





You probably should look up the term "straw man" too, because you
obviously don't know what that means.

especially after
considering that artificailly doing so may cause DEATH and other
life-long debilitating effects?

Do you realize that if you have a headache and take some
aspirin there is a risk of DEATH?

I'm not aware of it ever happening, but I suppose it's possible.

Anything is possible.

Then why aren't you running around talking about
the dangers of DEATH from aspirin?






Some families have abnormally high (or extremely low) levels of
cholesterol, too, but most of them lead normal lives, with normal
life-spans.

Study please.

Oh please.

Look it up for yourself. It's easy to do.


In other words, as usual, you have no supporting
data.