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#11
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Jim Bard wrote:
"D.F. Manno" wrote in message ... In article , Will McGugan wrote: When you post on newsgroups, the text gets sent to numerous news servers around the world, to mailing lists, and to web forums. You have to consider your words to be in the public domain, even if someone else seems to be profiting from them. Being publicly available is absolutely different than being in the public domain. By that logic, every book that finds its way into people's homes, libraries and on sound recordings should be seen to be in the public domain. Obviously, accessibility isn't a criterion. No, nothing is in the public domain unless you specifically put it there. Or copyright runs out. For someone to profit from the use of my Usenet posts is infringement on my copyright. Just FYI.... An infringement on your "copyrighted material" is only actionable if you can show monetary loss from the "theft". Nope. Copy right law is not about some sort of altruistic "ownership", it's really all about money. It's about property rights. The ownership of intellectual property. And no monetary loss has to be shown unless the complaint seeks damages. The simple fact of someone using property not theirs is enough to begin proceedings to secure an injunction. Yes, some potential loss bolsters the case, but ownership of copyrighted material is sufficient strength. If you post information without an attempt to earn from it, but others take your publicly posted information and manage to profit, it's no more actionable than a kid selling a bike that Santa gave him for Christmas. Nope. Copyright law isn't about whether money flows or not. No more than your ownership of your bicycle is altered by whether someone else uses it. It's yours and you can make them stop using it without permission. Usenet posts are technically copyrighted and stay so. The reality is that the likelihood of anyone (except maybe B*ll P*lm*r) trying to sue over unauthorized use is slim since it's a discussion forum that invites repartee which, by necessity, entails quotation and implicitly permits it. Trust me on this one, okay? No. I've been to too many seminars on the subject. Pastorio |
#12
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Suze wrote:
Quoting D.F. Manno: Will McGugan wrote: When you post on newsgroups, the text gets sent to numerous news servers around the world, to mailing lists, and to web forums. You have to consider your words to be in the public domain, even if someone else seems to be profiting from them. No, nothing is in the public domain unless you specifically put it there. For someone to profit from the use of my Usenet posts is infringement on my copyright. What are your feelings on Google Groups ? On Google I am not listed as "Guest" no matter what server I use to post from. So long as I remain listed as the original author, I'm happy for my postings to be echoed to assorted forums and archived. I've been on UseNet since the 1980s and some of my oldest archived postings are ones that got echoed to mailing lists and later posted to archives. It's been done for a very long time. The problems with this particular two-way gateway a 1) Guest listing, not exactly certain how bothered I am since I could register just as I have registered at Google. 2) A flood of new users who don't appear to have been given any training on the difference between UseNet and a bulletin board. ASDLC is NOT a bulletin board and postings to it should NOT be treated like it is. The rules are different. UseNet expects folks to read the FAQ file, to be willing to read answers, to quote portions of the text being responded to and such. |
#13
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In article ,
Suze suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious wrote: Quoting D.F. Manno: Suze suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious wrote: Quoting D.F. Manno: No, nothing is in the public domain unless you specifically put it there. For someone to profit from the use of my Usenet posts is infringement on my copyright. What are your feelings on Google Groups ? You don't see an x-no-archive header on my post, do you? Does this mean that you don't have a problem with Google (which is a for-profit enterprise selling/generating ads based on post content) archiving your posts, yet you have problems with other sites doing essentially the same thing? If so, what do you see as the difference? Or does your statement mean that you don't really care either way, and were just passing on information earlier? I consider Google Groups a worthwhile tradeoff. It's very useful to me because many other people have allowed their posts to be archived, so I do the same. As for other forums, I don't consider my Usenet posts to have much commercial potential for me, so going after sites that repackage them just isn't worth the effort. Mostly, I was just positing to correct the misconception about public domain. -- D.F. Manno "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L. Mencken, in the Baltimore Sun, July 26, 1920 |
#14
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Sherry wrote:
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message oups.com... 2) A flood of new users who don't appear to have been given any training on the difference between UseNet and a bulletin board. ASDLC is NOT a bulletin board and postings to it should NOT be treated like it is. The rules are different. UseNet expects folks to read the FAQ file, to be willing to read answers, to quote portions of the text being responded to and such. I look at it the same way I look at people wanting privacy when they walk down the street: you're already out there, privacy is a moot point. I just True, but that doesn't mean that someone has a right to take my picture walking down the street and include it in their commercial endeavor. assume that once I post anything anywhere on the 'net, it might as well be public domain, for all the control I have over those words once they're out there - especially in the very public internet area of usenet with feeds going out everywhere. And I post accordingly. Probably always good to take the "NYT" approach (never write anything you wouldn't want to appear in the insert whatever periodical people you care about read. Martha -- Sig pending |
#15
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Quoting Doug Freyburger:
Suze wrote: Quoting D.F. Manno: Will McGugan wrote: When you post on newsgroups, the text gets sent to numerous news servers around the world, to mailing lists, and to web forums. You have to consider your words to be in the public domain, even if someone else seems to be profiting from them. No, nothing is in the public domain unless you specifically put it there. For someone to profit from the use of my Usenet posts is infringement on my copyright. What are your feelings on Google Groups ? On Google I am not listed as "Guest" no matter what server I use to post from. So long as I remain listed as the original author, I'm happy for my postings to be echoed to assorted forums and archived. I've been on UseNet since the 1980s and some of my oldest archived postings are ones that got echoed to mailing lists and later posted to archives. It's been done for a very long time. The problems with this particular two-way gateway a 1) Guest listing, not exactly certain how bothered I am since I could register just as I have registered at Google. True enough. And, although you -could- register, why would you even want to? Personally, I'm not particularly bothered by it. I think it's all so much hand waving and high horse riding as far as complaining about the downloading of our posts 'for profit' goes -- especially as Google has been doing substantially the same thing for quite some time now. For example, when I pull this particular thread up in Groups (beta), it is 'selling' three ads -- one promising you can lose 9 pounds in 11 days, one for an inventors site, and one for copyright registration. However, the way this particular gateway -uploaded- posts from their board may constitute some sort of net abuse (by the RFCs or whatever) as posts were not properly formatted or threaded. The content of some of them is also obviously several months old. 2) A flood of new users who don't appear to have been given any training on the difference between UseNet and a bulletin board. ASDLC is NOT a bulletin board and postings to it should NOT be treated like it is. The rules are different. UseNet expects folks to read the FAQ file, to be willing to read answers, to quote portions of the text being responded to and such. By the same token, Google Groups is also contributing to similar sorts of problems in terms of providing posting access to many that don't (or can't be bothered to) understand the differences. |
#16
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Quoting D.F. Manno:
I consider Google Groups a worthwhile tradeoff. It's very useful to me because many other people have allowed their posts to be archived, so I do the same. That is pretty much my take on it as well. As a side note, I have seen people make the argument that at the time they made posts 'back in the day', Google, Deja, and such weren't around, therefore they had no reasonable expectation that their posts would ever appear in a searchable archive. Now, that's certainly not -my- argument, just sayin'. As for other forums, I don't consider my Usenet posts to have much commercial potential for me, so going after sites that repackage them just isn't worth the effort. Mostly, I was just positing to correct the misconception about public domain. Okay. Thanks. |
#17
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"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
oups.com... 2) A flood of new users who don't appear to have been given any training on the difference between UseNet and a bulletin board. ASDLC is NOT a bulletin board and postings to it should NOT be treated like it is. The rules are different. UseNet expects folks to read the FAQ file, to be willing to read answers, to quote portions of the text being responded to and such. I look at it the same way I look at people wanting privacy when they walk down the street: you're already out there, privacy is a moot point. I just assume that once I post anything anywhere on the 'net, it might as well be public domain, for all the control I have over those words once they're out there - especially in the very public internet area of usenet with feeds going out everywhere. And I post accordingly. That there isn't moderation on this newsgroup means anybody can post from anywhere - including these intrusive boards. Which isn't saying I like it of course...only that it's a fact of the 'net over which I have no control and therefore don't want to stress over...even while I empathize with those who are upset about it sigh... -- Sherry 364/315/195 http://lowcarb.owly.net |
#19
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"Saffire" wrote in message .. . *** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- it's appearance in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. *** Yes, but using that analogy, this is a case of someone videotaping you walking down the street that YOU choose walk down, but then layering it on top of some OTHER video, making it appear that you are walking down THEIR street, not YOURS. It's deceptive because it makes you appear to be doing something that you did not, in fact do. Yeah, it's you, and your name appears on it, and you are, indeed walking, but they totally changed the appearance of the location WHERE you are walking without your consent or knowledge and with no indication whatsoever that you had ever walked down YOUR street in the first place. OK, I get the difference now. I'm still not as upset by it as you are but I do "get it" thanks . -- Sherry 364/315/195 http://lowcarb.owly.net |
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