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  #21  
Old October 16th, 2011, 05:41 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Elmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default For Dogman

On 16/10/2011 11:28 PM, wrote:
On Oct 16, 8:31 am, wrote:
On 16/10/2011 10:02 PM, wrote:





On Oct 16, 1:12 am, wrote:
On 16/10/2011 5:33 AM, wrote:


On Oct 15, 2:06 pm, wrote:
On 16/10/2011 12:37 AM, wrote:


On Oct 15, 3:51 am, wrote:
On 15/10/2011 1:30 PM, Dogman wrote:


On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:17:36 +1000,
wrote:


On 15/10/2011 7:14 AM, Patricia Martin Steward wrote:


Drudge is a poseur.


Drudge has nothing to do with it, he didn't write the book, he just
commented on it. It is only one of thousands of books and articles that
are central to the decline of the US. You can stick your head in the
sand and pretend it isn't happening but it won't change the inevitable.
The USA is kaput! Its death throes might last for a year or two, but is
is already beyond resuscitation. The most it can hope for is to recover
to a third world status, and that is a very slim chance. It will never
be a superpower again. It is bankrupt, fiscally and morally, and there
is no chapter eleven for countries.


We are already getting an influx of Americans arriving here, they have
seen the inevitable and are jumping ship while what dollars they have
still retain some value.


Since your economy is so closely linked to ours, what do you think
will happen to Canada should we actually become "kaput"?


Hmmmmm?


--
Dogman


Unfortunately we will get dragged down with you, as will much of the
western world. Thankfully as result of the first US caused GFC, most of
the western world is prepared and will not be dragged as irrevocably low
as the US.


Instead of the usual liberal emotion, let's look at the actual facts
about govt debt levels in countries around the world. Here's the
list of countries with their
debt to GDP ratios:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt

Number one is Japan, with debt at 200% of GDP. Then we have Greece
at 142%, Iceland at 126%, Italy at 120%, Belgium at 100%,
Ireland at 97%, Portugal at 93%, and CANADA at 84%,
France at 82%.......


The USA is at 62%. So, if we are on the road to financial
ruin, Canada and a whole lot of other countries are already
well ahead of us.


Yes, some other countries are in poor fiscal condition as well, but most
have a better chance of recovery. It doesn't change what is happening in
the US. Those figures list Uganda, Algeria etc., at a much lower debt
ratio than most countries, yet people are starving to death there, or
dying of readily treatable diseases. Makes it pretty meaningless as a
yardstick.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


But we're not talking about starvation or disease troll.
We're talking about your bogus claim that the US has caused
a worldwide financial crisis because it's broke and
can't pay it's debts.


The United States Senate accepts that the GFC was US caused.


From Wiki.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_..._2008%E2%80%93...


The above link does not work.


It does if you use some thought - it isn't hard to search for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_..._2008%E2%80%93...





Here's what Wiki has to say about the Irish financial crisis:


"Background and causes:


The Irish economy expanded rapidly during the Celtic Tiger years (1997–
2007) due to a low corporate tax rate, low ECB interest rates, and
other factors. This led to an expansion of credit and included a
property bubble which petered out in 2007. Irish banks, already over-
exposed to the Irish property market, came under severe pressure in
September 2008 due to the global financial crisis of 2007–2010"


In other words, Ireland experienced similar economic circumstances to
what happened in the USA, ie a property bubble driven by low interest
rates.
Top that off with a govt mired in debt from reckless spending.
Yet, being a clueless America basher, you blame the USA


How about Greece?


From CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/02/...nda/index.html


"So what's the problem in Greece?
Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement
financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic
downturn struck. This whisked away a curtain of partly fiddled
statistics to reveal debt levels and deficits that exceeded limits set
by the eurozone.


How big are these debts?
National debt, put at €300 billion ($413.6 billion), is bigger than
the country's economy, with some estimates predicting it will reach
120 percent of gross domestic product in 2010. The country's deficit
-- how much more it spends than it takes in -- is 12.7 percent."


Clearly this has nothing to do with anything the USA did. Greece's
national debt
was over 100% of it's GDP as early as 2000, 7 years before anything
went wrong in the
USA. Greece simply handed out money to lazy people who don't want to
work.
If anything, the USA has been a tremendous help to Greece because for
50 years
we kept the Russians out of there with OUR defense spending. That
saved them
trillions in spending and should have helped them economically. It
would have too,
had they not ****ed it away on socialist programs.


And before you say that Wiki is unreliable, follow the links in that
article. They link to some very reliable sources.


The late-2000s financial crisis (often called the Global Recession,
Global Financial Crisis or the Credit Crunch) is considered by many
economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression
of the 1930s.[1] It resulted in the collapse of large financial
institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and
downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing
market had also suffered, resulting in numerous evictions, foreclosures
and prolonged vacancies. It contributed to the failure of key
businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in the trillions of
U.S. dollars, and a significant decline in economic activity, leading to
a severe global economic recession in 2008.[2]


The financial crisis was triggered by a liquidity shortfall in the
United States banking system in 2008.[3] The collapse of the U.S.
housing bubble, which peaked in 2007, caused the values of securities
tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, damaging financial
institutions globally.


Sure, some banks internationally that had too much exposure to certain
US sectors were damaged. But they were damaged even
more by doing exactly the same things in their own country,
like in the examples of Ireland, Greece and Italy.


[4] Questions regarding bank solvency, declines in
credit availability and damaged investor confidence had an impact on
global stock markets, where securities suffered large losses during 2008
and early 2009. Economies worldwide slowed during this period, as credit
tightened and international trade declined.[5] Governments and central
banks responded with unprecedented fiscal stimulus, monetary policy
expansion and institutional bailouts. Although there have been
aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between
late-2008 and mid-2009.[6][7][8]


While many causes for the financial crisis have been suggested, with
varying weight assigned by experts,[9] the United States Senate issuing
the Levin–Coburn Report found “that the crisis was not a natural
disaster, but the result of high risk, complex financial products;[10]
undisclosed conflicts of interest; and the failure of regulators, the
credit rating agencies, and the market itself [11] to rein in the
excesses of Wall Street.” [12]- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I like it when you prove yourself wrong.


I haven't done that, all I have done is show how your own government
thinks that people like you are wrong.


Still waiting to see where that senate committee report says
the USA is responsible for what is happening in Ireland, Greece,
and next Italy. It talks about what happened in the USA.
You are making the giant leap that the woes of all these
other countries are the result of the USA. I showed you
where Greece was at 100% of GDP already in 2000.
I showed you where Ireland had it's own housing and
economic bubble. Yet, being an American basher all
that goes right over your head.




Your own source above says
many causes have been suggested. And to use the US Senate that
was directly involved in the financial problems here in the USA as a
source is particularly silly. The Congress has an approval rating of
about 13% because everyone knows that most of them are a lying
bunch of irresponsible skunks.


No, everyone does not know that. Only total fools would make such a
ridiculous claim. The entire Congress is lying?


Show us where the entire Congress said the USA is responsible
for the financial problems in Ireland, Greece or the rest of Europe.
You really don't know much about govt, do you. You might find
a loon or two out of 500 that said that, but we haven't even seen
that from you, let alone the entire Congress.


Your president is lying?


Show us where Obama said the USA is responsible for
the world's financial problems in places like Ireland and
Greece.


Ever heard of newspapers, news reports, magazines, media? Ever read the
transcripts from congress, upper and lower? Ever read any media that
isn't US centric? British, German, French? Apparently not. Maybe you had
better tell him to stop apologising as if you are right, he has nothing
to apologise for. It might give him more time for other things, like
maybe running the country properly instead of running it into the ground.



Your top economists who support the opinion of your government in their
books, papers and articles are all lying?


You could probably find some economists, who being
America haters and socialists, would have that opinion.


That your permanent response? Anyone academic or economist who has a
valid and well researched opinion who doesn't think that the sun shines
out of the US' ass is simply an America Hater? Ever heard of a certain
habit associated with Ostriches?

But I'd still like you to find one that says the problems
in Greece, Ireland, etc are the fault of the USA.

Even the banks abroad that were directly impacted
by the mortgage crisis here have no excuse. Everyone
knew the US housing market had gone way up for
years, escalating even more sharply after 2000.
And any banker with any brain and/or experience
knows that these bubbles end badly.


Except the American bankers. Right - got you.

So, if they
held debt obligations linked to those markets, how
is it the fault of the USA and not their own greed
and stupidity?


They trusted the US when it kept saying that it could control things
fiscally.



I think that you have a problem with reality.


Really? You're the one that claimed China owns
all the US debt, when in fact it's 8%.


I said that China holds the majority of US foreign debt, that it holds
more than any other nation. It does, that is indisputable. The US is in
hock to China.

You're the
one that claimed the USA govt is so deep in debt
it can't make payments...


If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing? The only thing
that you have done is play games with interest rates and devalue your
currency to make the effective debt less. You aren't repaying it, and
you are still trying to borrow. America is broke - ask the White House.


  #22  
Old October 16th, 2011, 06:46 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default For Dogman

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 02:41:01 +1000, Elmo
wrote:

[...]
If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?


Hey, Sgt. Preston, if we weren't making payments the entire global
financial system would already have collapsed. Where do you get your
news from anyway? Pravda?

And our debt keeps increasing because the American people can't yet
get it across to our elected representatives that we want them to STOP
THE SPENDING! PERIOD!

But in ~ 387 days, they'll get the message, and it'll come in loud and
clear. You'll be able to hear it all the way up there in Canuckistan.

Unless your head is still stuck up Rex's ass, that is.

Now go get your "Power to the people!" poster and get back outside and
"protest", along with all the other commie losers.

TROLL.

--
Dogman
  #23  
Old October 16th, 2011, 07:57 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Patricia Martin Steward[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default For Dogman

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:17:36 +1000, Elmo
wrote:
On 15/10/2011 7:14 AM, Patricia Martin Steward wrote:

Drudge is a poseur.


Drudge has nothing to do with it, he didn't write the book, he just
commented on it.


That's patently obvious. But I'm just sayin'.


--
We are becoming a country that believes the rich have earned their money but the well educated have not
earned their intellectual superiority. This leads to a nation that idolizes Kardashians.
Joel Stein, TIME, 8/23/10
  #24  
Old October 16th, 2011, 08:25 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Dogman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 540
Default For Dogman

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:57:53 -0400, Patricia Martin Steward
wrote:

[...]

We are becoming a country that believes the rich have earned their money


Some have, some haven't.

but the well educated have not earned their intellectual superiority.


Some have, some haven't.

For example, Joel Stein is well educated, but remains essentially
clueless. He's "intellectually superior" to maybe Michael Moore, but
that's on a good day.

Joel Stein, TIME, 8/23/10


Moron.


--
Dogman
  #25  
Old October 17th, 2011, 01:46 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Elmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default For Dogman

On 17/10/2011 3:46 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 02:41:01 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?


Hey, Sgt. Preston, if we weren't making payments the entire global
financial system would already have collapsed.


Paying the loans off you dimwit, not just the interest. You aren't
reducing the debt, you are just treading water.

Where do you get your news from anyway? Pravda?


Not unless Pravda has relocated to the White House. My primary source of
information is your own government, watching their petty squabbles and
reading their press releases.
  #26  
Old October 17th, 2011, 02:11 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Elmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default For Dogman

On 17/10/2011 5:25 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:57:53 -0400, Patricia Martin Steward
wrote:

[...]

We are becoming a country that believes the rich have earned their money


Some have, some haven't.

but the well educated have not earned their intellectual superiority.


Some have, some haven't.

For example, Joel Stein is well educated, but remains essentially
clueless. He's "intellectually superior" to maybe Michael Moore, but
that's on a good day.


I suppose that anyone else who states the truth about the US economy is
clueless too?

I think that I would prefer to believe your own congress, Alan
Greenspan, the World Bank, and China itself before fiscally illiterate
boobs like you. Alan Greenspan has both the credentials and a lifetime
of experience, you don't even have a grasp of basic fiscal reality.



  #27  
Old October 17th, 2011, 02:48 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Elmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default For Dogman

On 17/10/2011 11:31 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:46:07 +1000,
wrote:

On 17/10/2011 3:46 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 02:41:01 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?

Hey, Sgt. Preston, if we weren't making payments the entire global
financial system would already have collapsed.


Paying the loans off you dimwit, not just the interest. You aren't
reducing the debt, you are just treading water.


Again, moron, you asked why the debt is increasing. It's because we
keep spending more than taxes bring in.


I know why it is increasing, as does anyone who is sentient and capable
of reading. I just wanted you to admit it. You spend huge amounts but
have nothing to show for it other than more enemies and less
international respect. Most countries' debts are a results of spending
that has given their citizens advantage.

It's really that simple, which
means that you won't be able to understand it.


I can understand you and there isn't much around that is simpler than
you are.


Tell you what...you worry about Canada's debt, and I'll worry about
America's.


I am not worried about Canada's debt, Canadians, aren't governed by
fiscal illiterates, Canada doesn't start wars and escalate an already
huge debt. Canada will eventually overcome it, Canada can see the light
at the end of the tunnel. You are denying that there is a tunnel.


  #28  
Old October 17th, 2011, 03:13 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Elmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default For Dogman

On 17/10/2011 11:41 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:11:59 +1000,
wrote:

On 17/10/2011 5:25 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:57:53 -0400, Patricia Martin Steward
wrote:

[...]

We are becoming a country that believes the rich have earned their money

Some have, some haven't.

but the well educated have not earned their intellectual superiority.

Some have, some haven't.

For example, Joel Stein is well educated, but remains essentially
clueless. He's "intellectually superior" to maybe Michael Moore, but
that's on a good day.


I suppose that anyone else who states the truth about the US economy is
clueless too?


What kind of stupid question is that? Whose truth? Yours? Joel
Stein's?


There is only one truth. The true, unbiased record of events. The
suggestion that there is more than one truth can only come from juvenile
or mendacious minds.

Yeah, riiiight.

I think that I would prefer to believe your own congress,


What would you like to believe about them?

Alan
Greenspan, the World Bank, and China itself


Yet China continues to invest in our bonds! And the World Bank is
basically funded by us, and we're its largest shareholder!


China has begun cutting back on all US/foreign investment. All they are
doing at the money is trying to protect their initial investment.


before fiscally illiterate
boobs like you. Alan Greenspan has both the credentials and a lifetime
of experience, you don't even have a grasp of basic fiscal reality.


Alan Greenspan helped to get us into this mess!


So who should know better?


Really, Sgt. Preston, please start talking about low-carb eating,
something you may (or may not) know something about.


I know a lot about low carb eating, I have been low carb for decades.
You with your xenophobic BS are the one who started this little foray
into political areas. Maybe you shouldn't have started it?


Clearly, economics and America are things you know nothing about.


I know a lot about economics, and I know what your own government,
coupled with many other internationally renowned, well experienced and
very fiscally aware authorities state.

I know nothing about the imaginary America that you seem to live in. Do
you have to go through the back of an old wardrobe to get there?

  #29  
Old October 17th, 2011, 02:13 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 993
Default For Dogman

On Oct 16, 12:41*pm, Elmo wrote:
Show us where the entire Congress said the USA is responsible
for the financial problems in Ireland, Greece or the rest of Europe.
* You really don't know much about govt, do you. *You might find
a loon or two out of 500 that said that, but we haven't even seen
that from you, let alone the entire Congress.


Your president is lying?


Show us where Obama said the USA is responsible for
the world's financial problems in places like Ireland and
Greece.


Ever heard of newspapers, news reports, magazines, media? Ever read the
transcripts from congress, upper and lower?


Apparently you've never read newspapers or transcripts from
Congress, because if you did, you'd know there is no upper
and lower.



Ever read any media that
isn't US centric? British, German, French? Apparently not. Maybe you had
better tell him to stop apologising as if you are right, he has nothing
to apologise for. It might give him more time for other things, like
maybe running the country properly instead of running it into the ground.


So, Obama is so incompetent that he's running the US into
the ground but he's your source for what's wrong with America.
Go figure.






Your top economists who support the opinion of your government in their
books, papers and articles are all lying?


You could probably find some economists, who being
America haters and socialists, would have that opinion.


That your permanent response? Anyone academic or economist who has a
valid and well researched opinion who doesn't think that the sun shines
out of the US' ass is simply an America Hater? Ever heard of a certain
habit associated with Ostriches?

But I'd still like you to find one that says the problems
in Greece, Ireland, etc are the fault of the USA.


In other words, you have no such economist.



Even the banks abroad that were directly impacted
by the mortgage crisis here have no excuse. *Everyone
knew the US housing market had gone way up for
years, escalating even more sharply after 2000.
And any banker with any brain and/or experience
knows that these bubbles end badly.


Except the American bankers. Right - got you.


No fool. I never said the American bankers did not make
those same mistakes. Only that to lay the blame on them
for what is happening in places like Greece and Ireland is
totally bogus. Those countries got where they are by years
of excessive spending on socialist welfare states.
And any banks around the world that had too much exposure
to sectors of the US and were harmed by it did so on their
own and are just as negligent as any financial institution in
the USA. Got it now?






So, if they
held debt obligations linked to those markets, how
is it the fault of the USA and not their own greed
and stupidity?


They trusted the US when it kept saying that it could control things
fiscally.



LOL. Who exactly said that? No one needed to say it
because no one saw the real estate meltdown coming.
That's how it goes with most financial meltdowns and
recessions. To believe your case, you'd have to believe
banks in Europe had exposure to real estate in the USA
without knowing how fast it had gone up, how far, and
that loans were being made with little or nothing down.
Yes, I'll have another helping of a billion dollars of
those CMO's please, no need to check them out....

Are Canadian bankers that stupid that they can't
figure out how secure any of their investments are?
And when some of them blow up, instead of being
adults and taking responsibility, do they whine about
it being the US that "mislead" them?




I think that you have a problem with reality.


Really? * You're the one that claimed China owns
all the US debt, when in fact it's 8%.


I said that China holds the majority of US foreign debt,


Just how stupid are you? 8% is NOT a majority.




that it holds
more than any other nation. It does, that is indisputable. The US is in
hock to China.


As far as foreign countries, yes, China does hold the most.
It's narrowly more than that which Japan owns. It's 8% of
the total debt. So what? What countries own Canada's debt?
Foreign countries are lining up to buy US debt because
they know that in these uncertain times, it's still one of the
safest investments in the world. Those buying US govt
securities clearly do not have a problem, it's only you
with no skin in the game, who do.




You're the
one that claimed the USA govt is so deep in debt
it can't make payments...


If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?


Because while making those payments, we are continuing
to borrow more. And lenders, unlike you, obviously have
high confidence in our ability to repay it, otherwise they
would not be doing so at 3% interest rates, now, would
they? Yes, if it continues unabated, it will eventually
reach a crisis. But that is a big IF and we're clearly nowhere
near that yet.



The only thing
that you have done is play games with interest rates and devalue your
currency to make the effective debt less. You aren't repaying it, and
you are still trying to borrow. America is broke - ask the White House.


Then why is Canada also not broke? Your govt debt to GDP is
about the same. And why is Japan, with a debt ratio 2.5X that
of the USA, not way ahead of everyone else? Why aren't you
sounding the alarm about those countries?

Once the proper steps are taken after the next election,
the US economy will recover. A recovery from recession
has always occured and only a fool
would bet against it. Economic growth makes a huge
impact on closing the deficit and together with spending
cuts and restraint the budget deficit will shrink. That is what those
buying
US bonds know. As for you, since you're not even in the game,
and think 8% is a majority, why would anyone listen to you?

It would also be a good thing if you could learn to trim posts.
  #30  
Old October 17th, 2011, 02:33 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
James Warren
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default For Dogman

On 10/16/2011 10:31 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:46:07 +1000,
wrote:

On 17/10/2011 3:46 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 02:41:01 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?

Hey, Sgt. Preston, if we weren't making payments the entire global
financial system would already have collapsed.


Paying the loans off you dimwit, not just the interest. You aren't
reducing the debt, you are just treading water.


Again, moron, you asked why the debt is increasing. It's because we
keep spending more than taxes bring in. It's really that simple, which
means that you won't be able to understand it.

Tell you what...you worry about Canada's debt, and I'll worry about
America's.

http://www.debtclock.ca/

Troll.




--
Dogman


So comparing US to Canada.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

We find that the per person debt share of the national debt is
three times higher for Americans than for Canadians. How did that
happen? Canada has more social welfare programs than the US.

--
jw

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
and the intelligent are full of doubt." -- Bertrand Russell
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." - Christopher Hitchens.
 




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