Festschrift for Bob Pastorio

I don't much hold with the idea of mourning the dead. Those who were
no good, and we can all fill in the names, we're only too glad to see
the back of. Those who enriched us with their visit have left behind
so much more than they've taken away.

Bob Pastorio's last days were relayed to us in a blog maintained by
Carol, his wife and like him, a former denizen of misc.writing. It
seems only appropriate to carry on in the same vein.

So I've taken the liberty of creating a blog on Blogger:
http://pastorio-chef.blogspot.com/
which I'd like to open up to anyone from the many and various
newsgroups he frequented, who has anything to post in memoriam of
Pastorio. I've started the ball rolling with one of his archived posts
of a recycled article which caught my imagination at the time and
seems to have stayed with me since.

Anyone with a Blogger account who wishes to post, email me and I'll
invite you. For the others, there's an email address you can use to
make a blog post in a simple email message. Contact me likewise and
I'll give you that address, no questions asked.

I'm placing no pre-conditions on the type of posts you can make. Each
to his own. It's how he would have wanted it.

If you know of anyone who might be interested who isn't covered by
this post, let them know.

The blog, incidentally, brings no return to me or to anyone else.


--
Alan Hope
http://sour-grapes.tumblr.com/

Alan Hope wrote:
snip

So I've taken the liberty of creating a blog on Blogger:
http://pastorio-chef.blogspot.com/
which I'd like to open up to anyone from the many and various
newsgroups he frequented, who has anything to post in memoriam of
Pastorio. I've started the ball rolling with one of his archived posts
of a recycled article which caught my imagination at the time and
seems to have stayed with me since.

Anyone with a Blogger account who wishes to post, email me and I'll
invite you. For the others, there's an email address you can use to
make a blog post in a simple email message. Contact me likewise and
I'll give you that address, no questions asked.

I'm placing no pre-conditions on the type of posts you can make. Each
to his own. It's how he would have wanted it.

If you know of anyone who might be interested who isn't covered by
this post, let them know.

The blog, incidentally, brings no return to me or to anyone else.


--
Alan Hope
http://sour-grapes.tumblr.com/

Thanks, Alan - that's very thoughtful of you.
-L.

Hi you must check this, its a great site for friends, lot of
communities and lot of activites, finally agood site with lot of fun
and some serious thought. It even pays for each click or post, now
what more you could ask for?

please check this out..

http://www.mylot.com/?ref=axel_blade

In article ,
Alan Hope wrote:

I don't much hold with the idea of mourning the dead. Those who were
no good, and we can all fill in the names, we're only too glad to see
the back of. Those who enriched us with their visit have left behind
so much more than they've taken away.

Bob Pastorio's last days were relayed to us in a blog maintained by
Carol, his wife and like him, a former denizen of misc.writing. It
seems only appropriate to carry on in the same vein.

So I've taken the liberty of creating a blog on Blogger:
http://pastorio-chef.blogspot.com/
which I'd like to open up to anyone from the many and various
newsgroups he frequented, who has anything to post in memoriam of
Pastorio. I've started the ball rolling with one of his archived posts
of a recycled article which caught my imagination at the time and
seems to have stayed with me since.

Anyone with a Blogger account who wishes to post, email me and I'll
invite you. For the others, there's an email address you can use to
make a blog post in a simple email message. Contact me likewise and
I'll give you that address, no questions asked.

I'm placing no pre-conditions on the type of posts you can make. Each
to his own. It's how he would have wanted it.

If you know of anyone who might be interested who isn't covered by
this post, let them know.

The blog, incidentally, brings no return to me or to anyone else.

I have a very special post stored from him that I'd like to contribute...
It was written when we were discussing forcing children to eat food:

From Bob Pastorio:

It is singularly amazing how people can forget what it was like to be
dealt with as though they had no brains and their likes and dislikes
were irrelevant in an essentially trivial situation. I grew up in the
house where I had to sit at the table until the food was gone. There
were things that I just couldn't even gag down that, for some reason,
were necessary for me to eat because that's what was prepared. My
parents liked them, so I had to as well. One time I asked my mother to
cook a dinner of things I liked but that they didn't and see how it
felt. She slapped me across the face. And she missed the entire point.
She told me about hating olives as a child and her father making her
eat them because she was "supposed to." She didn't like fish but he
did, so she ate fish and threw up later.

It starts with Chris believing that the kids *need* to eat things they
don't want to and that somehow a dishonest exercise will prove to be
constructive. The whole reason for a varied diet is to get a range of
nutrients. A multivitamin will provide all the minerals and trace
elements most people need. The calories come from what they eat. The
basic premise needs to be examined. Kids have been this way since
there've been kids.

And crapskull TE thinks that violence is a good way to teach kids to
be more venturesome; thinks that beating a child over a mouthful of
peas is a wise thing to do. Probably forgets what it felt like to be a
kid who just didn't like carrots or spinach or whatever and was forced
to eat it "for your own good."

For some rather stupid reason, too many parents think that threats and
punishment are rational conditions to use to get kids to eat what they
don't want to. Adults get to not eat what they don't want to as a
matter of course. They also get to pig out on whatever they want.
Somehow, kids don't routinely get those choices. As though their
preferences are unimportant. As though their thoughts simply don't count.

I just did my 17th annual evening with a bunch of 4-H country kids,
maybe 25 of them, for an evening of food. We made pizza. All of us
made pizza. I provided the toppings and here are some of them:
artichoke hearts, blueberries, ricotta cheese, asparagus, bacon,
strawberries, onions, peppers, carrots, cabbage, cantaloupe, Nutella,
sour cream, peaches, tomatillos, anchovies, Spam, capers, cottage
cheese, Parmesan cheese, mozzarella cheese, Monterey Jack, tomatoes,
fresh herbs, tomato sauce, Bechamel sauce, sliced roast beef,
pastrami, corned beef... You get the idea.

For crust, we had white bread, wheat bread, honey-oatmeal bread,
crinkle-cut French fires, cooked pasta... you get the idea.

Everything was used. Kids ate stuff they'd never seen or heard of
before just to find out what it was like. It was an adventure and they
liked the feel of it. Of course, not every kid tried everything, but
the atmosphere of "try it if it appeals to you; don't if it doesn't"
gets them to eat the most amazing range of foods. Letting them do the
cooking shows them pretty quickly what can work and what's yucky. But
if they have an investment in the food, they'll be more adventurous.

In my house, Carla, my 12-year-old grew up with these rules:
* You can't say yuck until after you taste it
* If you say yuck, you never have to eat it again.

Now that she's got a reasonably sophisticated palate because of her
jaunts along the culinary highway, she doesn't have *any* rules about
eating. She gets to choose where we go to eat sometimes. She gets to
help decide what's for dinner. If my wife and I are under a tight
deadline and don't plan to do a normal dinner, she's free to eat
whatever she wants. Sometimes it's strawberries with cream and a big
glass of apple juice. Other times it'll be potstickers or some
leftover chicken and buttered bread or a bowl of roasted veggies or
whatever. Her call.

I'm not at all reluctant to take her to *any* restaurant - at the
Greenbrier three years ago, she impressed the service staff with her
questions and choices. We were sitting with a whole table of food
writers, many of whose names you know and whose books you read, and
the table fell silent while she discussed the menu with the waiter.
The husband of one of the writers of the Culinaria series turned to
his wife and said, "Can we take her home with us?" She - not quite 10
years old - ordered the sea bass with potato crust (asked the waiter
if the potato were shredded or sliced - he laughed out loud, quickly
composed himself and told her, "shredded.") and custard of asparagus.
At the end of the meal, the waiter brought some of their remarkable
truffles and put a plate of them in front of her. Everybody smiled.

She's a normal kid her age who deals with all the stresses and
delights they do. She isn't a genius although she's well spoken. She's
venturesome and has always been so because there's been no pressure on
her to eat things she didn't like. She's perfectly willing to try
things, knowing that she doesn't have to eat any more if it doesn't
appeal to her. She's 5 feet tall and weighs 100 pounds and is athletic
and very fit. She can ride a horse, shoot a gun and take care of
herself. She has the confidence that only comes with being taken
seriously to make decisions for herself.

All threats do is make the kids hide and lie to avoid punishment.
That's an lose-lose situation. Leave the kids alone. Help them grow
into kind, thoughtful people and keep the belts for their real
purpose. Remember what it felt like to be pushed around over trifles
just because your parents could. Remember what it felt like not to be
able to have opinions.

Pastorio
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Omelet wrote:

I have a very special post stored from him that I'd like to
contribute... It was written when we were discussing forcing children
to eat food:

From Bob Pastorio:

It is singularly amazing how people can forget what it was like to be
dealt with as though they had no brains and their likes and dislikes
were irrelevant in an essentially trivial situation. I grew up in the
house where I had to sit at the table until the food was gone.

saved

All threats do is make the kids hide and lie to avoid punishment.
That's an lose-lose situation. Leave the kids alone. Help them grow
into kind, thoughtful people and keep the belts for their real
purpose. Remember what it felt like to be pushed around over trifles
just because your parents could. Remember what it felt like not to be
able to have opinions.

Pastorio

And, right there in that post, is the heart of Bob Pastorio.
Thank you, Om, for posting.

Dora

All threats do is make the kids hide and lie to avoid punishment.
That's an lose-lose situation. Leave the kids alone. Help them grow
into kind, thoughtful people and keep the belts for their real
purpose. Remember what it felt like to be pushed around over trifles
just because your parents could. Remember what it felt like not to be
able to have opinions.

Pastorio

An amazing response to a long ago question that shows the depth of him.

A fine and lasting tribute.

Thanks Om

Cindi
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
Nicholson

In article XPMQh.6175$iw5.4806@trndny06, "limey"
wrote:

Omelet wrote:

I have a very special post stored from him that I'd like to
contribute... It was written when we were discussing forcing children
to eat food:

From Bob Pastorio:

It is singularly amazing how people can forget what it was like to be
dealt with as though they had no brains and their likes and dislikes
were irrelevant in an essentially trivial situation. I grew up in the
house where I had to sit at the table until the food was gone.

saved

All threats do is make the kids hide and lie to avoid punishment.
That's an lose-lose situation. Leave the kids alone. Help them grow
into kind, thoughtful people and keep the belts for their real
purpose. Remember what it felt like to be pushed around over trifles
just because your parents could. Remember what it felt like not to be
able to have opinions.

Pastorio

And, right there in that post, is the heart of Bob Pastorio.
Thank you, Om, for posting.

Dora

Most welcome. :-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article ,
"Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" wrote:

All threats do is make the kids hide and lie to avoid punishment.
That's an lose-lose situation. Leave the kids alone. Help them grow
into kind, thoughtful people and keep the belts for their real
purpose. Remember what it felt like to be pushed around over trifles
just because your parents could. Remember what it felt like not to be
able to have opinions.

Pastorio

An amazing response to a long ago question that shows the depth of him.

A fine and lasting tribute.

Thanks Om

Cindi

Cheers. :-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

I don't frequent this newsgroup, only checking it out because of the
passing of Bob. This was a wonderful glimpse of the man. thank you. I
passed it along to FoodWine.

Kathy in Slo, CA

Omelet wrote:
In article ,
Alan Hope wrote:

I don't much hold with the idea of mourning the dead. Those who were
no good, and we can all fill in the names, we're only too glad to see
the back of. Those who enriched us with their visit have left behind
so much more than they've taken away.

Bob Pastorio's last days were relayed to us in a blog maintained by
Carol, his wife and like him, a former denizen of misc.writing. It
seems only appropriate to carry on in the same vein.

So I've taken the liberty of creating a blog on Blogger:
http://pastorio-chef.blogspot.com/
which I'd like to open up to anyone from the many and various
newsgroups he frequented, who has anything to post in memoriam of
Pastorio. I've started the ball rolling with one of his archived posts
of a recycled article which caught my imagination at the time and
seems to have stayed with me since.

Anyone with a Blogger account who wishes to post, email me and I'll
invite you. For the others, there's an email address you can use to
make a blog post in a simple email message. Contact me likewise and
I'll give you that address, no questions asked.

I'm placing no pre-conditions on the type of posts you can make. Each
to his own. It's how he would have wanted it.

If you know of anyone who might be interested who isn't covered by
this post, let them know.

The blog, incidentally, brings no return to me or to anyone else.

I have a very special post stored from him that I'd like to contribute...
It was written when we were discussing forcing children to eat food:

From Bob Pastorio:

It is singularly amazing how people can forget what it was like to be
dealt with as though they had no brains and their likes and dislikes
were irrelevant in an essentially trivial situation. I grew up in the
house where I had to sit at the table until the food was gone. There
were things that I just couldn't even gag down that, for some reason,
were necessary for me to eat because that's what was prepared. My
parents liked them, so I had to as well. One time I asked my mother to
cook a dinner of things I liked but that they didn't and see how it
felt. She slapped me across the face. And she missed the entire point.
She told me about hating olives as a child and her father making her
eat them because she was "supposed to." She didn't like fish but he
did, so she ate fish and threw up later.

It starts with Chris believing that the kids *need* to eat things they
don't want to and that somehow a dishonest exercise will prove to be
constructive. The whole reason for a varied diet is to get a range of
nutrients. A multivitamin will provide all the minerals and trace
elements most people need. The calories come from what they eat. The
basic premise needs to be examined. Kids have been this way since
there've been kids.

And crapskull TE thinks that violence is a good way to teach kids to
be more venturesome; thinks that beating a child over a mouthful of
peas is a wise thing to do. Probably forgets what it felt like to be a
kid who just didn't like carrots or spinach or whatever and was forced
to eat it "for your own good."

For some rather stupid reason, too many parents think that threats and
punishment are rational conditions to use to get kids to eat what they
don't want to. Adults get to not eat what they don't want to as a
matter of course. They also get to pig out on whatever they want.
Somehow, kids don't routinely get those choices. As though their
preferences are unimportant. As though their thoughts simply don't count.

I just did my 17th annual evening with a bunch of 4-H country kids,
maybe 25 of them, for an evening of food. We made pizza. All of us
made pizza. I provided the toppings and here are some of them:
artichoke hearts, blueberries, ricotta cheese, asparagus, bacon,
strawberries, onions, peppers, carrots, cabbage, cantaloupe, Nutella,
sour cream, peaches, tomatillos, anchovies, Spam, capers, cottage
cheese, Parmesan cheese, mozzarella cheese, Monterey Jack, tomatoes,
fresh herbs, tomato sauce, Bechamel sauce, sliced roast beef,
pastrami, corned beef... You get the idea.

For crust, we had white bread, wheat bread, honey-oatmeal bread,
crinkle-cut French fires, cooked pasta... you get the idea.

Everything was used. Kids ate stuff they'd never seen or heard of
before just to find out what it was like. It was an adventure and they
liked the feel of it. Of course, not every kid tried everything, but
the atmosphere of "try it if it appeals to you; don't if it doesn't"
gets them to eat the most amazing range of foods. Letting them do the
cooking shows them pretty quickly what can work and what's yucky. But
if they have an investment in the food, they'll be more adventurous.

In my house, Carla, my 12-year-old grew up with these rules:
* You can't say yuck until after you taste it
* If you say yuck, you never have to eat it again.

Now that she's got a reasonably sophisticated palate because of her
jaunts along the culinary highway, she doesn't have *any* rules about
eating. She gets to choose where we go to eat sometimes. She gets to
help decide what's for dinner. If my wife and I are under a tight
deadline and don't plan to do a normal dinner, she's free to eat
whatever she wants. Sometimes it's strawberries with cream and a big
glass of apple juice. Other times it'll be potstickers or some
leftover chicken and buttered bread or a bowl of roasted veggies or
whatever. Her call.

I'm not at all reluctant to take her to *any* restaurant - at the
Greenbrier three years ago, she impressed the service staff with her
questions and choices. We were sitting with a whole table of food
writers, many of whose names you know and whose books you read, and
the table fell silent while she discussed the menu with the waiter.
The husband of one of the writers of the Culinaria series turned to
his wife and said, "Can we take her home with us?" She - not quite 10
years old - ordered the sea bass with potato crust (asked the waiter
if the potato were shredded or sliced - he laughed out loud, quickly
composed himself and told her, "shredded.") and custard of asparagus.
At the end of the meal, the waiter brought some of their remarkable
truffles and put a plate of them in front of her. Everybody smiled.

She's a normal kid her age who deals with all the stresses and
delights they do. She isn't a genius although she's well spoken. She's
venturesome and has always been so because there's been no pressure on
her to eat things she didn't like. She's perfectly willing to try
things, knowing that she doesn't have to eat any more if it doesn't
appeal to her. She's 5 feet tall and weighs 100 pounds and is athletic
and very fit. She can ride a horse, shoot a gun and take care of
herself. She has the confidence that only comes with being taken
seriously to make decisions for herself.

All threats do is make the kids hide and lie to avoid punishment.
That's an lose-lose situation. Leave the kids alone. Help them grow
into kind, thoughtful people and keep the belts for their real
purpose. Remember what it felt like to be pushed around over trifles
just because your parents could. Remember what it felt like not to be
able to have opinions.

Pastorio

In article ,
Kathy Dell wrote:

I don't frequent this newsgroup, only checking it out because of the
passing of Bob. This was a wonderful glimpse of the man. thank you. I
passed it along to FoodWine.

Kathy in Slo, CA

Most welcome...

Sorry for not snipping the crossposts, but I could not tell where you
were posting from.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson