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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
http://www.lowcarb.org/josh_yelon/topic3.html
There are 3 listed studies. The second explains why the fats Dr Atkins called "better" and "best" fats actually lead to faster loss than the fats he called "good" fats. Animal and human studies show that polyunsaturated fatty acids (P) are oxidized more rapidly than saturated fatty acids (S). Dr Atkins called polyunsaturated fats the "best fats". He called them that partially because they are essential where neither saturated nor monounsaturated fats are essential. Here's the other reason. Calorie for calorie, if you eat the best fats, you'll burn more fuel than if you eat the good fats. Burn more fuel, lose more weight. The study showed that a prolonged food intake of a diet with a high P/S ratio results in a relatively high RMR and DIT. These results indicate the importance of dietary lipid profile in the treatment of obesity. On Atkins folks are typically told that if they cook a few strips of bacon to have with their eggs in the morning that they should use the bacon grease and not waste a drop. It turns out that if you pour off the bacon grease *and* replace it with the same amount of polyunsaturated oil (nut oil), you'll lose even better. Here is the full text of the abstract. The effect of fat composition of the diet on energy metabolism. van Marken Lichtenbelt WD, Mensink RP, Westerterp KR. Department of Human Biology University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands. Medline record in process. Ernahrungswiss 1997 Dec;36(4):303-305 Animal and human studies show that polyunsaturated fatty acids (P) are oxidized more rapidly than saturated fatty acids (S). There are indications that diets high in P/S ratio result in a relatively high resting metabolic rate (RMR) and high diet induced thermogenesis (DIT). However, studies with human subjects are limited. The effect of dietary fatty acid composition on energy metabolism was studied in 6 male subjects, age 25-48 y. Two diets were supplied, each over a period of 14 days, in a randomized crossover design with a washout period of 14 days. P/S ratios of the diets were 0.19 and 1.67. On day 14, RMR was determined in the morning in fasting state by means of indirect calorimetry (ventilated hood), followed by a 4 hour measurement of the DIT after consumption of a standardized meal of 3.3 MJ with the same fatty acid composition as during the dietary period. The meal contained 46, 37, and 17 % energy as fat, carbohydrate, and protein, respectively. RMR after the period with the high P/S diet was significantly higher than after the period of the low P/S diet. The average difference (+/- SD) was 0.17 +/- 0.14 kJ/min or 3.6 +/- 2.7 % of RMR. The DIT was also higher in all subjects during a breakfast with a high P/S ratio. The average difference was 0.29 +/- 0.16 kJ/min, which is 22.1 +/- 12.6 % of DIT. The study showed that a prolonged food intake of a diet with a high P/S ratio results in a relatively high RMR and DIT. These results indicate the importance of dietary lipid profile in the treatment of obesity. Comments: When you're sitting on the sofa, your body is using a small amount of energy. Of course, it's burning fat to get that energy. The rate at which it's burning fat is called your "resting metabolic rate." These guys gave a group of 6 men a diet high in saturated fat, then measured their resting metabolic rates. Then, they switched them to unsaturated fat, and measured their resting metabolic rates again. They discovered this: when they ate unsaturated fat, their resting metabolic rate was higher. In other words, they were burning fat faster when they were eating unsaturated fat instead of saturated fat. This probably also meant their energy levels were higher on unsaturated fat. |
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
Doug Freyburger wrote:
| Comments: When you're sitting on the sofa, your body is using a | small amount of energy. Of course, it's burning fat to get that | energy. The rate at which it's burning fat is called your "resting | metabolic rate." These guys gave a group of 6 men a diet high in | saturated fat, then measured their resting metabolic rates. Then, | they switched them to unsaturated fat, and measured their resting | metabolic rates again. They discovered this: when they ate | unsaturated fat, their resting metabolic rate was higher. In | other words, they were burning fat faster when they were eating | unsaturated fat instead of saturated fat. This probably also meant | their energy levels were higher on unsaturated fat. This is the same age-old sophistry, proclaiming the mantra "saturated fat is bad" with phony logic. Unless the 6 men studied ate the different types of fats in the absence of carbs, or in the presence of very low carbs, it is completely meaningless to a low-carb way of eating. It is the combination of saturated fats and carbs that is deadly and harmful, not the saturated fats alone. The study was not scientifically double-blind unless this was done, ergo is probably tainted and of no significance in its conclusions. I'm not a scientist, but my own experience has proven that I lose weight fastest disregarding the type of fats that I eat, only the quantity. Too many fats=too many calories=slower weigth loss. IMO. -- Peter 270/224/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo |
#3
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
Dr Atkins called polyunsaturated fats the "best fats".
I would not be so fast recommending polyunsaturated fats. They contain too much omega-6 (pro-inflamatory) and are easy to be oxidized (pro-inflamatory). Makeing your eggs and bacon using PUFAs seems to be a rather bad advice to me. Mirek |
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
Peter,
There is a lot of much more recent study evidence that saturated fats damage beta cells. I used to dismiss it too, but my fasting blood sugar is deteriorating even though I've been controlling blood sugar for years. That has made me take another look at the research. As a result, I've stopped eating saturated fats and am replacing them with unsaturated fats wherever possible. Do some Medine searches on the subject and make your own decisions. This isn't about weight loss which does proceed well with high sat fat. It's about preserving your remaining beta cells, which as a person with diabetes are already at least half destroyed. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.4. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm "marengo" wrote in message s.com... Doug Freyburger wrote: | Comments: When you're sitting on the sofa, your body is using a | small amount of energy. Of course, it's burning fat to get that | energy. The rate at which it's burning fat is called your "resting | metabolic rate." These guys gave a group of 6 men a diet high in | saturated fat, then measured their resting metabolic rates. Then, | they switched them to unsaturated fat, and measured their resting | metabolic rates again. They discovered this: when they ate | unsaturated fat, their resting metabolic rate was higher. In | other words, they were burning fat faster when they were eating | unsaturated fat instead of saturated fat. This probably also meant | their energy levels were higher on unsaturated fat. This is the same age-old sophistry, proclaiming the mantra "saturated fat is bad" with phony logic. Unless the 6 men studied ate the different types of fats in the absence of carbs, or in the presence of very low carbs, it is completely meaningless to a low-carb way of eating. It is the combination of saturated fats and carbs that is deadly and harmful, not the saturated fats alone. The study was not scientifically double-blind unless this was done, ergo is probably tainted and of no significance in its conclusions. I'm not a scientist, but my own experience has proven that I lose weight fastest disregarding the type of fats that I eat, only the quantity. Too many fats=too many calories=slower weigth loss. IMO. -- Peter 270/224/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo |
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
Mirek Fidler wrote:
::: Dr Atkins called polyunsaturated fats the "best fats". :: :: I would not be so fast recommending polyunsaturated fats. They :: contain too much omega-6 (pro-inflamatory) and are easy to be :: oxidized (pro-inflamatory). Don't you get those from nuts? :: :: Makeing your eggs and bacon using PUFAs seems to be a rather bad :: advice to me. :: :: Mirek |
#6
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
:: I would not be so fast recommending polyunsaturated fats. They
:: contain too much omega-6 (pro-inflamatory) and are easy to be :: oxidized (pro-inflamatory). Don't you get those from nuts? Yes you do. In the end, omega-6 is EFA. Anyway, you get other things from some nuts (like omega-3 precursors AFAIK) and ususally you do not heat them like PUFAs. I have read that really important is omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Ideal seems to be up to 4:1. Anyway, by adding PUFAs to diet, you will likely get 20:1, which is bad. Mirek |
#7
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
"Mirek Fidler" wrote in message ... :: I would not be so fast recommending polyunsaturated fats. They :: contain too much omega-6 (pro-inflamatory) and are easy to be :: oxidized (pro-inflamatory). Don't you get those from nuts? Yes you do. In the end, omega-6 is EFA. Anyway, you get other things from some nuts (like omega-3 precursors AFAIK) and ususally you do not heat them like PUFAs. I have read that really important is omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Ideal seems to be up to 4:1. Anyway, by adding PUFAs to diet, you will likely get 20:1, which is bad. Mirek that is why the easiest solution is to add omega 3's rather than reduce omega 6's since it has a greater effect on the ratio. Sid... |
#8
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
"sprudil" píše v diskusním příspěvku news:nkidc.53272$oR5.9284@pd7tw3no... "Mirek Fidler" wrote in message ... :: I would not be so fast recommending polyunsaturated fats. They :: contain too much omega-6 (pro-inflamatory) and are easy to be :: oxidized (pro-inflamatory). Don't you get those from nuts? Yes you do. In the end, omega-6 is EFA. Anyway, you get other things from some nuts (like omega-3 precursors AFAIK) and ususally you do not heat them like PUFAs. I have read that really important is omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Ideal seems to be up to 4:1. Anyway, by adding PUFAs to diet, you will likely get 20:1, which is bad. Mirek that is why the easiest solution is to add omega 3's rather than reduce omega 6's since it has a greater effect on the ratio. Good idea, but it still does not solve problem with PUFA oxidizing. In fact, these are just clues I found browsing the net. I do not know whether PUFA are in fact good or bad - but I never met any mention about MUFA (virgin olive oil) being dangerous. Even OP's article favors it. So I think olive oil is the safest way to go. Mirek |
#9
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
Jenny wrote:
There is a lot of much more recent study evidence that saturated fats damage beta cells. I used to dismiss it too, but my fasting blood sugar is deteriorating even though I've been controlling blood sugar for years. That has made me take another look at the research. As a result, I've stopped eating saturated fats and am replacing them with unsaturated fats wherever possible. Speculation lacking actual evidence: Human ancestors spent at least a million years living on the beach eating seafood. They moved out of the trees 5 million years ago and evolved walking upright on grass when climatic changes reduced rain forest and increased steppe ecosystems in native Africa. Check 5 and 4 million years ago. Homo erectus and homo habilus sites have been found in the range of 2 and 1 million years ago. Neanderthal sites in the range of 1 million years ago and less. That leaves the million-year range around 3 million years ago a bit blank depending how you interpret the spare fossil evidence. Let's add it up - Other apes don't need salt the way humans do, have hair unlike humans, don't fly lobster into Denver the way humans do. Human infants can swin instinctively. Lacking good evidence that humans did in fact spend a million years on the beach, it remains a speculation. But let's take it on a leap of faith and see if it leads anywhere. A million years of low population and brutal evolutionary forces optimize humans for beach life and starting the push in the general direction of seal lions, then cut short by access to grasslands again and an expansion across the old world that started on beaches and proceeded into grasslands then forests everywhere. Humans like fish. Fish has more polyunsaturated fat than red meat from the land. Humans have a metabolic need for polyunsaturated fatty acids and some populations even need it from fish. Combining saturated fats and carbs causes problems and maybe saturated fats cause problems even among low carbers but the studies aren't in place yet. It sure makes sense that the standard advice of seafood at least once per week and red meat not every day could be exchanged with any ratio that has more seafood and more white meat in place of red meat, all the way to all seafood. Sure enough, a diet that's all seafood, veggies and some fruits and nut is extremely healthy for the folks that can afford it. And at least some of the reason for the difference is a very different ratio of good fats and best fats. |
#10
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Atkins - Comparing good fats and better fats
Jenny wrote:
| Peter, | | There is a lot of much more recent study evidence that saturated fats | damage beta cells. I used to dismiss it too, but my fasting blood | sugar is deteriorating even though I've been controlling blood sugar | for years. That has made me take another look at the research. As a | result, I've stopped eating saturated fats and am replacing them with | unsaturated fats wherever possible. | | Do some Medine searches on the subject and make your own decisions. | This isn't about weight loss which does proceed well with high sat | fat. It's about preserving your remaining beta cells, which as a | person with diabetes are already at least half destroyed. | | -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 | diabetes, hba1c 5.4. | Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! | | Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, | strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at | http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ | | Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? | Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm | | | | "marengo" wrote in message | s.com... || Doug Freyburger wrote: || ||| Comments: When you're sitting on the sofa, your body is using a ||| small amount of energy. Of course, it's burning fat to get that ||| energy. The rate at which it's burning fat is called your "resting ||| metabolic rate." These guys gave a group of 6 men a diet high in ||| saturated fat, then measured their resting metabolic rates. Then, ||| they switched them to unsaturated fat, and measured their resting ||| metabolic rates again. They discovered this: when they ate ||| unsaturated fat, their resting metabolic rate was higher. In ||| other words, they were burning fat faster when they were eating ||| unsaturated fat instead of saturated fat. This probably also meant ||| their energy levels were higher on unsaturated fat. || || || This is the same age-old sophistry, proclaiming the mantra || "saturated fat is bad" with phony logic. || || Unless the 6 men studied ate the different types of fats in the || absence of carbs, or in the presence of very low carbs, it is || completely meaningless to a low-carb way of eating. It is the || combination of saturated fats and carbs that is deadly and harmful, || not the saturated fats alone. The study was not scientifically || double-blind unless this was done, ergo is probably tainted and of || no significance in its conclusions. || || I'm not a scientist, but my own experience has proven that I lose || weight fastest disregarding the type of fats that I eat, only the || quantity. Too many fats=too many calories=slower weigth loss. IMO. || -- || Peter || 270/224/180 || website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo If what you say is true, then it makes sense and I can keep an open mind about it. I was just referring to the very illogical and inaccurate mantra that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart attacks. By itself it doesn't do this. Potential destruction of beta cells is a whole different animal,a nd I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open for new info on that one! -- Peter 270/223/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo |
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