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#1
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
terryc wrote:
Wade wrote: One study of 177 patients found that among Type 2 diabetes patients who had been very obese, 57 percent remained free of the disease more than eight years after gastric bypass surgery. How many died? That was answered by dooberheim. Thanks! Lol, claims to have cured T2? I offer two very different definitions of "cure" - 1) You no longer have symptoms even when you stop taking your medications. The symptoms were caused by taking a poison and the underlying damage was not great enough to cause symptoms after you stop taking the poison. An implicit part of this definition is that high carb eating plans are poison. So you can never return to any high carb eating plan. 2) The underlying damage has been reversed, so if the damage was caused by something other than eating too many carbs for too long (tremendous variation depending on personal suseptability so even that is very hard to conclude) then you can resume eating high carb eating plans without return of symptoms. Calling high carb eating plans poison is true, but it misses a lot of other causes for diabetes so it's too simple minded for many cases. I figure the lap band results are based on my definition number 1 including its implication that high carb eating plans are poison. It's a definition that's pointless to folks with type 1 or caused by anything other than decades of high carb eating, but I think lots of folks getting lap band and who showed symptoms got their symptoms from decades of high carb eating. It's the sort of result that's tuned to its set of data so it doesn't help diabetics with greater damage or who got it from other causes. It's not a result to be over-read which is what terryc seems to be doing. |
#2
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:50:35 -0700, Doug Freyburger wrote:
It's the sort of result that's tuned to its set of data so it doesn't help diabetics with greater damage or who got it from other causes. It's not a result to be over-read which is what terryc seems to be doing. Does it kill more people than it cures? A heck of a lot of "diabetic cures/treatments" have turned out to do just that. Never loose fact that the underlying function of a lot of "treatments" are about making money for the inventor/discoverer/employer. -- Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three days. |
#3
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
Doug Freyburger wrote:
terryc wrote: Wade wrote: One study of 177 patients found that among Type 2 diabetes patients who had been very obese, 57 percent remained free of the disease more than eight years after gastric bypass surgery. How many died? That was answered by dooberheim. Thanks! Lol, claims to have cured T2? I offer two very different definitions of "cure" - 1) You no longer have symptoms even when you stop taking your medications. The symptoms were caused by taking a poison and the underlying damage was not great enough to cause symptoms after you stop taking the poison. An implicit part of this definition is that high carb eating plans are poison. So you can never return to any high carb eating plan. 2) The underlying damage has been reversed, so if the damage was caused by something other than eating too many carbs for too long (tremendous variation depending on personal suseptability so even that is very hard to conclude) then you can resume eating high carb eating plans without return of symptoms. Calling high carb eating plans poison is true, but it misses a lot of other causes for diabetes so it's too simple minded for many cases. I figure the lap band results are based on my definition number 1 including its implication that high carb eating plans are poison. Bariatric surgery patients (including lap-banding) are not subsequently placed on a low-carb diet so that there is no implication from these studies that high-carb eating plans are poison. What does happen universally is a dramatic decrease in the amount that is eaten. Therefore, it remains wise to simply eat less, down to the right amount (32 oz per day), in order to lose the VAT thereby curing the insulin resistance (IR/MetS) and possibly also receive a cure for type-2 diabetes: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...2aafa0aad16eb? Be hungrier, which is truly healthier for mind, body, and soul: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...d4e30704307e7? Marana tha Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Cardiologist and Author of "Be Hungry" http://NetCabal.com "Don't be left behind as were Cleopas and Simon ... .... ----------------- be hungry ! ! !" "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3) http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...c93540862751c? What are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven? http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...b41e6999de315? Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...81ab7d7ce78de? |
#4
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
terryc wrote:
Does it kill more people than it cures? A heck of a lot of "diabetic cures/treatments" have turned out to do just that. If you define the word "cure" strictly enough you can get to the point that using Kleenex for the sniffles kills more than it cures. If you define the word "cure" broadly enough that any reduction in symptoms counts then even the riskiest surgeries can cure more than they kill. Since I don't know where you are in that spectrum I can't address the question any better than dooberheim did so I'll repeat the data - Typical 30 day mortality rates for lap band surgery varies from 0.1 to 2% depending on the study. An additional couple percent of patients die within a year. Factors are the experience of the surgeon, the BMI of the patient, and other existing disease. Considering that patients that undergo this surgery may already have significant morbidities from their condition, that's not too bad. It's comparable to a lot of other major surgeries. If "a couple percent of patients die within a year" without the surgery then yes the surgery does cure more than it kills. Never loose fact that the underlying function of a lot of "treatments" are about making money for the inventor/discoverer/employer. You use the word "about" in a very biased way. Vaccines that prevent viral diseases are also "about" profit for the manufacturer. Do you then refuse vaccination for thyphus or whatever before international travel because you'd rather risk the disease than grant profit to the manufacturer? While profit is involved, isn't it really "about" the results and the risk/reward statistics? |
#5
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:14:52 -0700, Doug Freyburger wrote:
so I'll repeat the data - Yawn, so you just a gabber fest. Typical 30 day mortality rates for lap band surgery varies from 0.1 to 2% depending on the study. Reminds me of the stats for an angiogram, basically 1 in 100 (1%) chance that you would die from a stroke or a heart attack whilst undergoing it, but each was expressed as 5 in 1,000. -- Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three days. |
#6
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 10:23:01 -0400, MÃ*ck©® wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 07:14:52 -0700 (PDT), Doug Freyburger wrote: terryc wrote: Does it kill more people than it cures? A heck of a lot of "diabetic cures/treatments" have turned out to do just that. If you define the word "cure" strictly enough you can get to the point that using Kleenex for the sniffles kills more than it cures. If you define the word "cure" broadly enough that any reduction in symptoms counts then even the riskiest surgeries can cure more than they kill. Since I don't know where you are in that spectrum I can't address the question any better than dooberheim did so I'll repeat the data - Typical 30 day mortality rates for lap band surgery varies from 0.1 to 2% depending on the study. An additional couple percent of patients die within a year. Factors are the experience of the surgeon, the BMI of the patient, and other existing disease. Considering that patients that undergo this surgery may already have significant morbidities from their condition, that's not too bad. It's comparable to a lot of other major surgeries. If "a couple percent of patients die within a year" without the surgery then yes the surgery does cure more than it kills. It doesn't cure diabetes. It only allows a morbidly obese individual who follows the post procedure dietary guidelines to become a "managed" diabetic. If they fail to follow the dietary restrictions placed on them they will lose control of their blood sugars again. They are still diabetic. Which begs the question that would they have achieved the same result if they had adapted the post procedure dietary in any case? -- Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three days. |
#7
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
Màck©® wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 07:14:52 -0700 (PDT), Doug Freyburger wrote: terryc wrote: Does it kill more people than it cures? A heck of a lot of "diabetic cures/treatments" have turned out to do just that. If you define the word "cure" strictly enough you can get to the point that using Kleenex for the sniffles kills more than it cures. If you define the word "cure" broadly enough that any reduction in symptoms counts then even the riskiest surgeries can cure more than they kill. Since I don't know where you are in that spectrum I can't address the question any better than dooberheim did so I'll repeat the data - Typical 30 day mortality rates for lap band surgery varies from 0.1 to 2% depending on the study. An additional couple percent of patients die within a year. Factors are the experience of the surgeon, the BMI of the patient, and other existing disease. Considering that patients that undergo this surgery may already have significant morbidities from their condition, that's not too bad. It's comparable to a lot of other major surgeries. If "a couple percent of patients die within a year" without the surgery then yes the surgery does cure more than it kills. It doesn't cure diabetes. It only allows a morbidly obese individual who follows the post procedure dietary guidelines to become a "managed" diabetic. If they fail to follow the dietary restrictions placed on them they will lose control of their blood sugars again. They are still diabetic. My husband had weight loss surgery in 2002 and he has been free of diabetes since then. He eats whatever he wants and he is doing fine. I am not saying everyone should have surgery and I am not saying that surgery is the way to go, I am just telling you what happened to him. Becca |
#8
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
Billy wrote:
*Susan wrote: It might not be a bad idea to get a baseline bone density test; labs aren't going to catch osteoporosis that recent research indicates could follow. Why osteoporosis, when he is taking calcium and presumably "D" in his vitamins? The reason is in a part of the thread that got trimmed out: My husband had weight loss surgery in 2002 and he has been free of diabetes since then. He eats whatever he wants and he is doing fine. I am not saying everyone should have surgery and I am not saying that surgery is the way to go, I am just telling you what happened to him. After weight loss surgery every type of deficiency related problem needs to be considered and the common ones tested for. |
#9
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
In article ,
terryc wrote: Which begs the question that would they have achieved the same result if they had adapted the post procedure dietary in any case? One the whole I'd rather eat tapeworm eggs, rather than go thru the procedure. And there are many, many plans I would rather embrace. |
#10
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Weight-Loss Surgery May Be Beneficial for Diabetes
In article ,
Màck©® wrote: Research needs to be done on why people fail to maintain post weight loss surgery "dietary requirements" for ANY weight loss surgery. Then they need to find out how to help those people who are in the failure group to change and succeed then apply that to people BEFORE the surgery is actually their only option. But where's the wisdom in that? You mean the profit? |
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