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#241
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On 18/05/2012 6:16 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2012 20:50:33 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger wrote: Because I observe that the conclusions of climate science continue to change decade to decade and thus we should not make large political changes based on the predictions of thise decade as they are still likely to change next decade, I get called a climate change denier by some. That's because the people who call you that are stupid. No one disputes that the climate is changing. Probably from the precise moment that earth even had a climate, it started to change. And the people who call me an AIDS "denialist" are stupid too, because no one disputes that AIDS exists. And whether Doug agrees with me or not, he's apparently taking precautions that allow for Duesberg being right. Probably because he's smart enough to not put all of his apples in one basket ... I remember the world before AIDS appeared. I remember the time before AIDS was correlated with HIV. And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well, everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand. Correlation does not imply causation, but causation does imply correlation. I have long accepted that HIV is the primary cause or AIDS but I do get that this theory is still young and may be disproved. It's already been disproved, and via The Scientific Method, which Duesberg's book clearly illustrates. No one can possibly fully understand this topic (and Hep C, HPV, FIV, FeLV, prions, etc.) without reading his book. I'm not betting my farm on it. That part of the medical field is immature. Most of medicine as a science is immature compared with several other sciences. Not so much immature as CORRUPT, which Duesberg's book PROVES. I know that something like 15% of all people who are HIV infected nevre become symptomatic with AIDS. [...] As long as they don't take AIDS drugs, take steps to strengthen their immune system, and avoid the risk factors, e.g., abuse IV and other recreational drugs, if you're a man, having promiscuous sex with other men, inhale amyl nitrates, take antibiotics prophylactically, practice good hygiene, eat healthy food, drink clean water, etc., they won't get AIDS. -- -jw |
#242
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On Fri, 18 May 2012 18:28:25 -0300, James Warren
wrote: [...] And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well, everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand. Correlation does not imply causation, but causation does imply correlation. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#243
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On 18/05/2012 6:32 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2012 18:28:25 -0300, James Warren wrote: [...] And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well, everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand. Correlation does not imply causation, but causation does imply correlation. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Correlation is frequently first and then causation is established afterwards. Correlation is what creates a list of possible suspects for further investigation. -- -jw |
#244
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On Fri, 18 May 2012 18:59:27 -0300, James Warren
wrote: Correlation is frequently first and then causation is established afterwards. Correlation is what creates a list of possible suspects for further investigation. Who's on first? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmvk...?v=wfmvkO5x6Ng -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#245
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
Dogman wrote:
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Having had caviar and roe in sushi, having seen fossils of fish older than any land vertabrate, that's an easy one for me. |
#246
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On May 18, 4:50*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Dogman wrote: " wrote: Doug has made it clear that he doesn't agree with you ... And I've made it clear to you that The Scientific Method doesn't give a hoot about who agrees or doesn't agree with a theory. Sometimes I write comments about the maturity of fields of science. *In a mature field the conclusions change very little. *In the atomic theory of chemistry we now have photographs of individual atoms. *Advances in inorganic chemistry are now in fields in battery storage. *Very much edge material compared to the common industrial processes in wide use. No one is ever going to overturn theories about mixing dissolved salts to produce precipitates. Because I observe that the conclusions of climate science continue to change decade to decade and thus we should not make large political changes based on the predictions of thise decade as they are still likely to change next decade, I get called a climate change denier by some. And whether Doug agrees with me or not, he's apparently taking precautions that allow for Duesberg being right. Probably because he's smart enough to not put all of his apples in one basket ... I remember the world before AIDS appeared. *I remember the time before AIDS was correlated with HIV. *I have long accepted that HIV is the primary cause or AIDS but I do get that this theory is still young and may be disproved. *I'm not betting my farm on it. *That part of the medical field is immature. *Most of medicine as a science is immature compared with several other sciences. I know that something like 15% of all people who are HIV infected nevre become symptomatic with AIDS. No way am I allowing myself to be injected hoping to become a part of that 15%. Which of course has nothing to do with HIV being the cause of AIDS. There are similar results with many diseases where a small percentage never have acute symptoms, get a milder version, etc. But the other causes are stuff that should be avoided for health reasons. There are no OTHER causes. Show us one peer reviewed study where you have people with extremely low T cell counts, dying of opportunistic infections, ie the classic hallmarks of AIDS, where they are not HIV infected and it's instead caused by: A - not enough sleep B - too much sex C - drug abuse D - hemophilia E - Pick the non-sequitor of your choice that the denialist conjure up case by case. Show us a peer reviewed study where those patients exist and are cured by diet, sleep, etc. I'd like to see a Montagnier study. He claims HIV can be easily erradicated from a person infected by eliminating oxidative stress, diet, improved sanitation. He's had 3 decades now, where are those patients and the study? Or is it just that Montagnier is full of BS? The same guy who recently got up in front of a group of peers and claimed he had detected eletromagnetic waves being emitted by DNA? Everybody laughed at that one and no one has been able to reproduce it. He's just a joke that the denialists use. |
#247
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On Sun, 20 May 2012 13:22:02 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote: Dogman wrote: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Having had caviar and roe in sushi, having seen fossils of fish older than any land vertabrate, that's an easy one for me. Putting aside religious beliefs for the moment, I think it's the egg, because the chicken is a hybrid. Heh. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#248
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On May 18, 5:16*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2012 20:50:33 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger wrote: Because I observe that the conclusions of climate science continue to change decade to decade and thus we should not make large political changes based on the predictions of thise decade as they are still likely to change next decade, I get called a climate change denier by some. That's because the people who call you that are stupid. No one disputes that the climate is changing. Probably from the precise moment that earth even had a climate, it started to change. And the people who call me an AIDS "denialist" are stupid too, because no one disputes that AIDS exists. From the CDS: "AIDS Acquired immune deficiency syndrome AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) is the final stage of HIV disease, which causes severe damage to the immune system." You deny that HIV causes this communicable disease. You instead claims it's just diet, not enough sleep, recreational drugs. Which of course is pathetic and yes it makes you a denialist. Why are you ashamed of what you are? And why are you back again? About 6 times now you've told us you were done. And whether Doug agrees with me or not, he's apparently taking precautions that allow for Duesberg being right. Probably because he's smart enough to not put all of his apples in one basket ... I remember the world before AIDS appeared. *I remember the time before AIDS was correlated with HIV. And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well, everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand. Still waiting for your explanation for what we all saw with hemophiliacs. For what we saw we people who received blood transfusions with routing surgery before blood was screened for HIV. Real people like Ryan White, Arthur Ashe, Isaac Asimov. How that appeared, was increasing, and just as suddenly stopped once blood was screened for HIV. For your explanation how people were dying right and left whether treated or not. Yet now that we have effective drugs that specifically target HIV, they are living. And at the same time, people who are not treated in third world countries that have HIV are dying. I know, poor diet and not enough sleep, because Duesburg says so, right? I have long accepted that HIV is the primary cause or AIDS but I do get that this theory is still young and may be disproved. It's already been disproved, and via The Scientific Method, which Duesberg's book clearly illustrates. Just like it's been proved that the earth is flat, all disease can be cured by diet, and the holocaust never ocurred. No one can possibly fully understand this topic (and Hep C, HPV, FIV, FeLV, prions, etc.) without reading his book. You can't even understand that viruses can cause cancer. There is a whole field of biology working on that and you claim it doesn't even exist. I'm not betting my farm on it. *That part of the medical field is immature. *Most of medicine as a science is immature compared with several other sciences. Not so much immature as CORRUPT, which Duesberg's book PROVES. Ahhh yes, the required grand conspiracy that all loons need to try to make their pathetic case and ignore the mountains of evidence. I know that something like 15% of all people who are HIV infected nevre become symptomatic with AIDS. [...] As long as they don't take AIDS drugs, take steps to strengthen their immune system, and avoid the risk factors, e.g., abuse IV and other recreational drugs, if you're a man, having promiscuous sex with other men, inhale amyl nitrates, take antibiotics prophylactically, practice good hygiene, eat healthy food, drink clean water, etc., they won't get AIDS. The lie repeated. Here's the truth: http://www.aidstruth.org/denialism/dead_denialists Kelly Jon Landis We regret to report that Kelly Jon Landis died December 3, 2007 in Santa Monica, CA, at age 39 after suffering for several months with lymphoma and other AIDS symptoms. Self-described as the "dissident saint," he was a health food fanatic and avid bicycle rider who avoided standard medical care and sought alternative therapies. He felt that simply leading a drug-free healthy lifestyle would protect him from disease. Sophie Brassard Sophie Brassard, a Canadian, was the HIV-positive mother of two HIV- positive, perinatally-infected sons. Citing the influence of HEAL, Alive and Well, Duesberg and Mullis, she refused to allow her children access to medical care when the became ill and fled the country with them. She consequently lost custody and parental rights. She died of AIDS on September 16, 2002, at age 37. Jerry Colinard Jerry Colinard, a board member of San Diego HEAL, died on July 4, 2009, at the age of 55, of AIDS. His webpage recalls that “Jerry supported the HIV community and was honored by a San Diego agency, ‘Being Alive,’ for his commitment. However by 2001 he had rejected traditional Western drug centered HIV medicine. He referred to himself as an ‘AIDS dissident’ thereafter.” Sylvie Cousseau Sylvie Cousseau contributed to a list of testimonials from people who tested HIV positive but embraced AIDS denial and rejected HIV treatment. This list of testimonials features on several different websites, including HEAL Toronto and the personal web pages of Rudolf Werner, Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at the University of Miami: http://molbio.med.miami.edu/HIV-Aids/stories.htm http://healtoronto.com/testimonials.html http://www.garynull.com/documents/Co...eapOfFaith.htm Sylvie Cousseau was the partner of Mark Griffiths. Sylvie died in 2001 at age 41. Boyd Ed Graves Boyd Graves was an HIV-positive lawyer who promoted the false view that HIV was developed by the US National Cancer Institute as part of a military programme to develop biological warfare agents for use against targeted communities. He found an NCI "flowchart" which he misinterpreted as demonstrating the existence of this programme, and initiated several unsuccessful lawsuits against the US government. While he believed that this manufactured HIV causes AIDS, he questioned the science of antiretroviral therapy and instead promoted as an "AIDS cure" a substance called "Tetracyl" or “Tetrasil” -- a silver compound with no known medical benefits and no evidence to support its use in HIV. According to an email circulated by his supporters he died in June 2009, apparently of AIDS, after several "Tetracyl" injections failed to reverse his illness. As far what we are aware he never took antiretrovirals. John Kirkham John Kirkham, an HIV+ denialist who managed the altheal website, died of pneumonia in 2008. His friends attribute his death to having survived lymphoma, a difficult personal relationship, and a chilly, damp house. There's a long sad list of others on the website. Read it and learn. |
#249
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On Sun, 20 May 2012 10:45:07 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: [...] That's because the people who call you that are stupid. No one disputes that the climate is changing. Probably from the precise moment that earth even had a climate, it started to change. And the people who call me an AIDS "denialist" are stupid too, because no one disputes that AIDS exists. From the CDS: "AIDS Acquired immune deficiency syndrome AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) is the final stage of HIV disease, which causes severe damage to the immune system." You deny that HIV causes this communicable disease. Yes, I do. And I've explained why. You're just too stupid to understand me. And why are you back again? In case you haven't noticed, I've never left, asshole. About 6 times now you've told us you were done. I'm done *discussing* AIDS with YOU, but I'm not done calling you stupid. Because you are. I consider it a public service. [...] And we all know that correlation does not equal causation. Well, everyone but Trader, James, and maybe Barbra Streisand. Still waiting for your explanation for what we all saw with hemophiliacs. I've already explained that. It's already been disproved, and via The Scientific Method, which Duesberg's book clearly illustrates. Just like it's been proved that the earth is flat, all disease can be cured by diet, and the holocaust never ocurred. Yet you refuse to read the book. No one can possibly fully understand this topic (and Hep C, HPV, FIV, FeLV, prions, etc.) without reading his book. You can't even understand that viruses can cause cancer. No they can't. And I've already explained why. Not so much immature as CORRUPT, which Duesberg's book PROVES. Ahhh yes, the required grand conspiracy that all loons need to try to make their pathetic case and ignore the mountains of evidence. Yet you refuse to read his book. Sheesh. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
#250
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About diabetic friendly supplemental drinks
On Sun, 20 May 2012 10:26:07 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: But the other causes are stuff that should be avoided for health reasons. There are no OTHER causes. Show us one peer reviewed study Right after you show me one decent study that proves HIV causes AIDS. I'd like to see a Montagnier study. Here's a study I'd like to see, based on Koch's Postulates: Koch's postulates are as follows: The bacteria must be present in every case of the disease. The bacteria must be isolated from the host with the disease and grown in pure culture. The specific disease must be reproduced when a pure culture of the bacteria is inoculated into a healthy susceptible host. The bacteria must be recoverable from the experimentally infected host. This had always been the hallmark of infectious disease verification, both viral and bacteria, but AIDS changed everything. So, no antibodies crap, just the virus, Koch's Postulates. Period. Until that happens, there is no proof that HIV causes AIDS. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
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