4:1

"Curt" wrote in message
oups.com...
teachrmama wrote:

-=snip the "That was gross" content=-

Eeew. That was gross. Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore such posts?

Like you just did?

Oops, like I just did, too.

D'OH!


chuckle

On Jul 26, 4:45 pm, "Steve Freides" wrote:


At one time, this ratio was the claim to fame of the recovery drinks R4
and Accelerade by Endurox. I used both when I was a runner and cyclist,
and they really did work better than Gatorade or similar.

Wow, they really made a difference?? Hmm, so I guess, whatever the
calories, it works.

I doubt one
size fits all when it comes to post-workout food if for no other reason
than the workouts can vary so much.

Well, muscle is muscle, regardless of why their ATP is deprived or how
it is deprived (intense bursts or prolonged sapping)...4:1 should
apply to all or none (assuming no medical conditions and such).

Just my opinion.

Very interesting to hear. Thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll try
a 4:1 sugar to whey mix myself and see if anything happens...though,
then again, I suppose, with all that sugar, there should be at least
the perception of some kind of a "boost," no??

-S-http://www.kbnj.com

On Jul 26, 4:13 pm, Omelet wrote:


Look.

I'm telling you that the use of injectable insulin for body building is
foolish and dangerous. You say that asking questions here is your
research.

I've posted links to back up my claim...

And you've done nothing but argue with me.

You look. Look hard, and you'll see that I'm not arguing with you.
I'm just asking questions.

You're the one arguing that I should be a ****ing chemist before I
post a question here. That's you arguing. Not me.

So, do you want to learn the truth here or do you just want us to post
what you WANT to hear?

What part of "Okay, so 4 grams of hi-gly carbs to 1 gram of protein is
the ideal
ratio for a sports drink??...Isn't that heck of a lot of carbs?? What
if you use less carbs -- does the protein get "wasted" somehow or just
take longer to load into
the muscle?...How about if taking creatine as well? Carbs also help
load creatine:
so workout supplementation involving creatine needs even more
carbs??? What's the ration for carbs to creatine???...Also, fructose
(fruit juice) isn't as great a stimulator of insulin, compared to
sucrose (table sugar): true or false?" don't you ****ing understand???

If that is the case, I'd suggest you try injecting some insulin into
yourself and see what happens. Be sure to have someone nearby that can
call 911.

Dude, I think you're the one who needs insulin and blood sugar. You
sound very unhappy for some reason.

--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Jul 26, 7:31 pm, "D Stumpus" wrote:


Speaking as a runner (long term aerobic power user):

The 4 to 1 ratio is what Accelerade says, and supposedly they've patented
it. They've got a bunch of Journal articles on their website supporting
that. I've read separately that short chain amino acids are used for energy
in aerobic mode, and lower the rate of muscle breakdown during exercise.

Holy heck, they've "patented" it??? Not the actual ratio, no way!
Unless they funded all the studies utilizing that ratio, I
suppose...??

Protein (chains of amino acids) absorb the stomach's acidity. If you eat
carbs only during a long exercise session, your stomach will get overly
acidic.

Interesting! Sounds like heartburn -- sometimes when I ingest a lot
of carbs like breads and cakes I get heartburn. Same thing?

The carbs consumed during exercise mainly replenish and help maintain blood
sugar levels, although some probably finds its way back into the muscles as
glycogen. If you've ever done a long term run and gotten weak and dizzy,
that's a sign of low blood sugar, and means you haven't been eating/drinking
enough carbs.

Most I ever did was fifteen miles on the treadmill, at 2:45. I don't
remember feeling weak and dizzy, necessarily, but I always feel
"happily drained," no matter what the distance.

I'll trying having a carb/protein drink next time and see if that
helps.

Most endurance runners (multi hour events) consume roughly 200-300
calories/hour in the form of snacks/gels/energy drinks.

Yeah, I've always wondered about that. I didn't even have water on
hand while running on the treadmill. I never do, actually. I only
drink after a run; I never interrupt a run for a sip, and I don't run
with any bottles or packs on me.

But now that I'm 35 and just starting to feel kinda weird sometimes,
I'm looking into all these things; hence my questions.

Don't know about distance runners ever using the stuff -- sounds like weight
lifting Chemistry to me...

Yes, you're right. Apparently creatine draws water into the muscles
and adds more weight thereby (though supposedly swelled muscles make
for faster protein synthesis).

When warmed up in aerobic mode, the tendency to get a low blood sugar
reaction to pure carbs is greatly reduced -- glycemic index isn't much of a
factor for most folks. So the type of carb isn't particularly important.

Right -- for runners!

But hi-gly carbs are supposed to be most efficient at loading protein
into your system. Even for runners that's important, especially since
protein is supposed to be burned, two, past two hours of exercise.

All that from "Nutrient Timing," which is focused on the strength and
speed athlete, but still, muscle is muscle and there's a lot of cross-
over benefits if this stuff is true....

On Jul 26, 8:06 pm, Dot wrote:


Also from the running perspective, I haven't read the more recent stuff,
but the original studies, I believe, using the 4:1 ratio had protein
ADDED to the carbs, so that ratio had more calories than pure carbs.
There was another issue with their design also - either small number or
using time to exhaustion as result. I believe some articles (or at least
one) has come out in the last few years where they used same number of
calories, but not sure.

In "Nutrient Timing" by the Head of Kinesiology at Texas University
it's stated that calories actually didn't matter. Some studies are
cited which suggested that it's the carbs that's the independent
variable, and calories do not factor at all for purposes of muscular
contraction during exercise and muscular recovery immediately after
exercise.

If you look at this article on their websitehttp://www.accelerade.com/science/FeaturedStudy.aspx
I don't see anything in there supporting the 4:1 ratio, just the carbs +
protein approach. Some of the original articles cited might have it in
there, but I would think Accelerade's page would make a big deal of it,
if they did.

Amazing...their ad in Runner's World magazine does make a big deal of
the ratio!

I think the endurance perspective is different from lifting perspective
although there's some overlap, so when a guy cross posts in that many
different groups about an "ideal" ratio in a sports drink, he really
does need to specify "ideal" for what?


Good point -- but I meant "ideal" in the very simple ("simple") sense
of intra-workout musclar contraction and post-workout muscular
recovery. Seems it should benefit both types of athletes "equally,"
though they channel the benefits towards different activities.

Dot

--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
world-famous adventurer who was with Byrd in Antarctica

Get a wife you sore loser!


On Jul 27, 12:36 am, wrote:


Get a life you dumbass.

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 26, 4:45 pm, "Steve Freides" wrote:


At one time, this ratio was the claim to fame of the recovery drinks
R4
and Accelerade by Endurox. I used both when I was a runner and
cyclist,
and they really did work better than Gatorade or similar.

Wow, they really made a difference?? Hmm, so I guess, whatever the
calories, it works.

For me as an endurance athlete, it made a huge difference. I could
quite literally run more miles per week because I was recovering better
after I started using Endurox R4 as my recovery drink. The stuff was/is
fantastic in that regard as far as I'm concerned. When they later came
out with Accelerade, I started taking that on the bike. Both were
always only available as powders, but I think they're now doing
pre-release advertising of Accelerade in pre-mixed form. If memory
serves, the main difference between the two products was that the 'while
exercising' version, Accelerade, had more salt than the 'after
exercising' version, R4.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


I doubt one
size fits all when it comes to post-workout food if for no other
reason
than the workouts can vary so much.

Well, muscle is muscle, regardless of why their ATP is deprived or how
it is deprived (intense bursts or prolonged sapping)...4:1 should
apply to all or none (assuming no medical conditions and such).

Just my opinion.

Very interesting to hear. Thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll try
a 4:1 sugar to whey mix myself and see if anything happens...though,
then again, I suppose, with all that sugar, there should be at least
the perception of some kind of a "boost," no??

-S-http://www.kbnj.com

Steve Freides wrote:
If memory serves, the main difference between the two products was
that the 'while exercising' version, Accelerade, had more salt than
the 'after exercising' version, R4.

The Endurox (R4) also has some extra stuff. At the very least, ciwuja
which is apparently a relative of Siberian ginseng and may be
something of an adaptogen.

I too thought the Endurox was helping me recover better than whatever
I was using before it, and I may well have been right. But then I
also didn't notice a dropoff in recovery when I stopped buying Endurox
and just made sure to get some carbs and a little protein in me ASAP,
e.g. juice and breakfast, beer and dinner, a fruit/juice/yogurt/sorbet
smoothie, whatever. You know, like "food... something my body needs
anyway."

My experience is sheer frequency of running - ideally every day, twice
most days - pumps up the recovery too. In other sports? No idea.

"Charlie Pendejo" wrote in message
ups.com...
Steve Freides wrote:
My experience is sheer frequency of running - ideally every day, twice
most days - pumps up the recovery too.


My recover drink is still a brew( and yes, most Heineken skunk ****) and
works very well. I alsotry to eat within the next 15-20 minutes. My
long runs are picked to finish close to a restaurant. I know chocolate
milk is as good as any sport drink but I'm never in the mood for it post
run.

-Doug

On Jul 30, 9:12 pm, "Steve Freides" wrote:


For me as an endurance athlete, it made a huge difference. I could
quite literally run more miles per week because I was recovering better
after I started using Endurox R4 as my recovery drink. The stuff was/is
fantastic in that regard as far as I'm concerned. When they later came
out with Accelerade, I started taking that on the bike. Both were
always only available as powders, but I think they're now doing
pre-release advertising of Accelerade in pre-mixed form. If memory
serves, the main difference between the two products was that the 'while
exercising' version, Accelerade, had more salt than the 'after
exercising' version, R4.

-S-http://www.kbnj.com


Hmmm!

So they work for you...when do you take them? I mean, like, when
you're thrity minutes into a run, or forty, or sixty, or what? Just
curious if you've noticed. And, like, how much longer or further can
you go?

I've run a straight fifteen miles on the treadmill in 2:45 without
even a sip of water...while that ain't a competitive time at all, I've
never understood the need for recovery drinks and whatnot. But so
many folks seem to swear by them that now, as I approach middle age
with some developing physical ailments, I'm really curious as to
whether these "magic" potions and powders will help me somehow. I
guess I'm wondering whether these things help "old folks," mostly??