Interesting Maintenance Results??

Before I get started - let me re-state for the record that I am a huge WW
fan.

As a program - it's great. And it really can set you up for life.

But........
They're a business. Making money.

I don't feel that they support you a great deal once you've reached goal. I
found the previously supportive atmosphere of the group became tinged with
what I shall charitably call envy. Add a dose of resentment to that from
those that had either been where I was and were back doing it over, or from
those who weren't getting there as fast as they wanted to. The initial
congratulatory, what an example you are, phase, wore off pdq. Those
struggling to lose a pound each week were hardly likely to appreciate me
panicking when I had gained, leaving me feeling awkward when I wanted help,
or had lost more again. I almost felt I was outside the norm, and my leader
didn't really know how to support someone who was doing it right. Don't get
me wrong - my leader was fantastic. It's just that meetings seemed to me to
be to support the journey, not the goal.

And if the support is gone, and you're wavering.......well, it'd be kinda
easy to fall off........

And there you are, a while down the line, a chunk of weight back on, paying
WW all over again.......

That's partially why, when I had put on some and started back down, I've
been doing it by myself (and here of course! *grin*). I could go back now,
and not pay, but I know I'd face the same issues again.

--
krys

UK 157/129.8/126
Started March 1st 2001
GOAL August 16th 2001
....busy going nowhere...

"Fred" wrote in message
...
I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

That is an interesting concept. I would think that in the long run you'd
want to minimize your GAINS just in case you stop having LOSSES.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

I tend to agree with you here. They (WW) have figured out how to teach
people to lose weight. They know how to support them in this effort. Once
you reach goal/lifetime and no longer paying them, the support tends to
disappear. Sure you can go to the meetings but from what I have seen you are
on your own to figure out this thing called Lifetime. I wonder, too, if they
have hopes that you will fail and come back as a paying customer.

"krys" wrote in message
...
Before I get started - let me re-state for the record that I am a huge WW
fan.

As a program - it's great. And it really can set you up for life.

But........
They're a business. Making money.

I don't feel that they support you a great deal once you've reached goal.
I
found the previously supportive atmosphere of the group became tinged with
what I shall charitably call envy. Add a dose of resentment to that from
those that had either been where I was and were back doing it over, or
from
those who weren't getting there as fast as they wanted to. The initial
congratulatory, what an example you are, phase, wore off pdq. Those
struggling to lose a pound each week were hardly likely to appreciate me
panicking when I had gained, leaving me feeling awkward when I wanted
help,
or had lost more again. I almost felt I was outside the norm, and my
leader
didn't really know how to support someone who was doing it right. Don't
get
me wrong - my leader was fantastic. It's just that meetings seemed to me
to
be to support the journey, not the goal.

And if the support is gone, and you're wavering.......well, it'd be kinda
easy to fall off........

And there you are, a while down the line, a chunk of weight back on,
paying
WW all over again.......

That's partially why, when I had put on some and started back down, I've
been doing it by myself (and here of course! *grin*). I could go back
now,
and not pay, but I know I'd face the same issues again.

--
krys

UK 157/129.8/126
Started March 1st 2001
GOAL August 16th 2001
...busy going nowhere...

"Fred" wrote in message
...
I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

Interesting

"Fred" wrote in message
...
I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

Please post the link if you ever find it.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
I am no expert and have only been doing this for about a year.

But I do not think it is possible to minimize the gains. I think
swings are natural. I guess maybe if one really, really, really
accurately journaled and knew exactly what activity points one really
earned one might be able to get close or closer.

Yes, I may have learned from NYC's trip that I really can't do 3
POINT-LADEN desserts but I should have known that anyway. Now I
really do. I might have walked about 2 miles in Manhattan one night
and did a 4-5 mile walk (not hike) another day. We that little
exercise, I should have watched a bit better. I guess sitting in an
airplane for 12 hours and sweating over whether the pilot could fly
the thing was not worth as many points as I thought (G)

I think I would like to explore this a bit more. The article someone
posted the other day on the Long Term Weight Registry might be a
starting point. Now to find that link again...

Fred

On Wed, 19 May 2004 22:32:36 GMT, "Laura"
wrote:

That is an interesting concept. I would think that in the long run you'd
want to minimize your GAINS just in case you stop having LOSSES.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

Fred I am in that study, been since I lost the first 100 or so and kept them
off. It is The Miriam Hospital National Weight Control Registry. They send
surveys out every year asking how you are doing, and what you are eating and
all kinds of stuff. I had to provide Dr's records. It is pretty interesting.
See here http://www.lifespan.org/services/bmed/wt_loss/nwcr/
They gave me credit before I got to goal. There are some interesting new
studies going on right now, to do with regain.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
May 16, "Keys to Success" was the subject. Diane was the poster.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:26:57 GMT, "Laura"
wrote:

Please post the link if you ever find it.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I am no expert and have only been doing this for about a year.

But I do not think it is possible to minimize the gains. I think
swings are natural. I guess maybe if one really, really, really
accurately journaled and knew exactly what activity points one really
earned one might be able to get close or closer.

Yes, I may have learned from NYC's trip that I really can't do 3
POINT-LADEN desserts but I should have known that anyway. Now I
really do. I might have walked about 2 miles in Manhattan one night
and did a 4-5 mile walk (not hike) another day. We that little
exercise, I should have watched a bit better. I guess sitting in an
airplane for 12 hours and sweating over whether the pilot could fly
the thing was not worth as many points as I thought (G)

I think I would like to explore this a bit more. The article someone
posted the other day on the Long Term Weight Registry might be a
starting point. Now to find that link again...

Fred

On Wed, 19 May 2004 22:32:36 GMT, "Laura"
wrote:

That is an interesting concept. I would think that in the long run
you'd
want to minimize your GAINS just in case you stop having LOSSES.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling
over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that
it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way
of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm
"MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal
last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there
are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I
have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive"
indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up
and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out
for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

That is sad that you don't have the support system for the Lifetime members.
I know at my meeting my leader (who has been at or near goal for 35 years
now) always mentions the lifetime members in the room that are at their goal
and asks their total weight loss and how they manage to keep the weight off
while maintaining. As you said it is a business, but she wants people to
keep coming so they don't gain and come back to lose again, she wants to see
you no matter what, but she always points out the life time members in the
room who are at goal.

I think most lifetime members that are at goal, just weigh and leave, so you
don't hear as much from them.

Debbie

"krys" wrote in message
...
Before I get started - let me re-state for the record that I am a huge WW
fan.

As a program - it's great. And it really can set you up for life.

But........
They're a business. Making money.

I don't feel that they support you a great deal once you've reached goal.
I
found the previously supportive atmosphere of the group became tinged with
what I shall charitably call envy. Add a dose of resentment to that from
those that had either been where I was and were back doing it over, or
from
those who weren't getting there as fast as they wanted to. The initial
congratulatory, what an example you are, phase, wore off pdq. Those
struggling to lose a pound each week were hardly likely to appreciate me
panicking when I had gained, leaving me feeling awkward when I wanted
help,
or had lost more again. I almost felt I was outside the norm, and my
leader
didn't really know how to support someone who was doing it right. Don't
get
me wrong - my leader was fantastic. It's just that meetings seemed to me
to
be to support the journey, not the goal.

And if the support is gone, and you're wavering.......well, it'd be kinda
easy to fall off........

And there you are, a while down the line, a chunk of weight back on,
paying
WW all over again.......

That's partially why, when I had put on some and started back down, I've
been doing it by myself (and here of course! *grin*). I could go back
now,
and not pay, but I know I'd face the same issues again.

--
krys

UK 157/129.8/126
Started March 1st 2001
GOAL August 16th 2001
...busy going nowhere...

"Fred" wrote in message
...
I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

That is interesting. Want to hear a coincidence? I looked back at my
chart from my first year of maintenance (Feb 2001 - Feb 2002). I
gained just under 30 pounds and lost the same.

For me, it boils down to an acceptable range of weight rather than a
specific number. Some weeks I was on the high end of the range, other
weeks, on the low end.

Thanks for making me look at it this way!

Best, Diane
--
182.6/171/165 mini/150 LT


On Wed, 19 May 2004 12:16:49 -0700, Fred
wrote:

I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred

Krys,
Interestingly, I had the same experience. My leader rarely called on
me and often avoided my questions or comments. Almost as if I were a
threat to her.

I considered becoming a leader just so I would be able to talk about
what I was going through occassionally! Of course, being a leader is a
lot more than that, which is why I never went through with it.

I'm not sure what the answer to this is, but wanted to share that I
felt the same way before my pregnancy.

Best, Diane
--
182.6/171/165 mini/150 LT



On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:23:31 +0100, "krys"
wrote:

Before I get started - let me re-state for the record that I am a huge WW
fan.

As a program - it's great. And it really can set you up for life.

But........
They're a business. Making money.

I don't feel that they support you a great deal once you've reached goal. I
found the previously supportive atmosphere of the group became tinged with
what I shall charitably call envy. Add a dose of resentment to that from
those that had either been where I was and were back doing it over, or from
those who weren't getting there as fast as they wanted to. The initial
congratulatory, what an example you are, phase, wore off pdq. Those
struggling to lose a pound each week were hardly likely to appreciate me
panicking when I had gained, leaving me feeling awkward when I wanted help,
or had lost more again. I almost felt I was outside the norm, and my leader
didn't really know how to support someone who was doing it right. Don't get
me wrong - my leader was fantastic. It's just that meetings seemed to me to
be to support the journey, not the goal.

And if the support is gone, and you're wavering.......well, it'd be kinda
easy to fall off........

And there you are, a while down the line, a chunk of weight back on, paying
WW all over again.......

That's partially why, when I had put on some and started back down, I've
been doing it by myself (and here of course! *grin*). I could go back now,
and not pay, but I know I'd face the same issues again.

I think it would be interesting to log it. Normal weight fluctuations
are not gains and loss but fluctuations. Keep up the good work on
maintenance by reacting to the weekly ups or downs.
Michelle : Ozzie in Switzerland
69.8/59.6/61kg


On Wed, 19 May 2004 12:16:49 -0700, Fred
wrote:

I first labeled this "An interesting Maintenance thought"

At today's meeting there was the usual discussion of losing and
gaining and NOT losing. The leader mentioned that the goal of WW is
not the usual diet behavior of losing weight to get to a goal,
abandoning the good behaviors and then regaining and then cycling over
and over.

One of the Lifetime members kind of suggested that she has probably
gained and lost about 100 pounds in the two years since she attained
Life. At that point, I also chimed in that since it was nearly
impossible to stay at exactly the same weight week after week, that it
really was a balance of UPS and DOWNS. But clearly, not in the way of
dieting and 'end dieting' over and over.

That led me to think that I should track how much GAIN and its hoped
for generally complementary LOSS has occurred while I'm "MAINTAINING."

After a bit of Excel balking at my lack of formula knowlege (g), I
added a new column that shows the total GAIN since I reached Goal last
year.

I think this may be an interesting number to contemplate. It might
even help put a bit of reality into the situation of gaining and
losing during MAINTENANCE. It is not perfect but shows that there are
ups and downs. I have to think and accept that this is normal and
natural. Again, I THINK it would be nearly impossible to not have
changes from week to week over the course of months and hopefully
years of MAINTENANCE. And, clearly, some of that change is a weight
gain.

Maybe I should have reversed the "display" and showed how much I have
lost during Maintenance which might be a more "positive" indicator????
(G) I guess I probably now know how to display that, too and have
both values.

So, with that explanation stated, since I hit goal (not LIFETIME) I
have gained:

32.8 pounds

And, fortunately, lost almost as much. This week was a slight up and
hopefully, maybe next week will be back down.

I don't know if this means anything or not but I just laid it out for
whatever it might be worth.

Fred