Low Carb Diets Really Low Calorie Diets

Ignoramus7068 wrote:

In article , Roger Zoul wrote:

Just like you, eating a lot of low-calorie foods with lots of water
does not reduce my appetite. If that were the case, I could just
eat a couple head of lettuce a day and be happy. NOT!

Same here.

Ditto ditto...
Also, if volume is supposed to be the MAIN thing, then why could i eat an
entire head of lettuce but the idea of consuming the same *volume* in olive
oil or flax oil (which I do love the taste of by themselves so it's not
taste or squeamishness) make me ill? Trust me, you'd be full before you
reached 1/10th of that volume.

From: Verity
Date: Thursday, 7 October 2004, 1:52 AM
Subject: Low Carb Diets Really Low Calorie Diets

On 2004-10-06 12:09:08 +1000, "marengo" said:


"John WIlliams" wrote in message
om...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/health/05brod.html

With Fruits and Vegetables, More Can Be Less
By JANE E. BRODY
effect on weight loss,
Dr. Rolls reported.

People who claim that they can eat as much as they want (of protein
and fat, for example) and lose weight as long as they avoid certain
kinds of foods (carbohydrates, for example) are really eating less
(that is, fewer calories) than they did before.

This woman is just plain stupid.

As against colorfully stupid, intricately stupid, or some other kind of
stupid. How many varieties of stupid do you believe exist, and which
category do fit into?


She has no concept of what a low-carb diet
is, obvously, or how it is done.

There is no such thing as a low carb diet per se, low carb is a generic
description of a style of diet, not a diet in and of itself. There is a
world of difference between South Beach, Atkins and many other diets
that fit into the low carb genre. You apparently are the one with no
concept.

z(Which plan states that you can eat "as
much as they want of protein and fat and lose weight at slong as they avoid
carbohydrates?)

Duh? Atkins maybe? If you can read Atkins and not have the impression
that he is claiming exactly that, then perhaps you invent another
category of stupid. One just for yourself.

In the first chapter second page, Atkins writes about his diet that it:

Sets no limit on the amount of food you can eat.
Completely excludes hunger from the dieting experience.
Includes foods so rich that you've never seen them on any other diet
Reduces your appetite by ... etc, etc,

and goes on to support exactly that claim throughout the rest of the
book. He also adds that one of the factors is that his low carb diet
suppresses appetite, allowing the dieter to eat less calories, exactly
what this woman is claiming.

Quotes from Atkins:

"Those who are doing Atkins may be eating fewer calories as a result of
being less hungry and less obsessed with food.

"And if you eat fewer calories-as many Atkins people do because their
appetite is usually diminished-you'll likely lose weight even faster. "


I'm embarrassed for her that she made such ignorant statements publicly.

I imagine that you often have occasion to be embarrassed, you should be
used to it.

How sad for her.

Not. She is absolutely correct in what she says.

Why do you attack others without cause, and in a manner that shows the
world just how ignorant you really are? Wouldn't it be better to simply
say, well I disagree because ..., rather than call others, who have far
more knowledge and experience than you, stupid?

Verity

Marsha wrote:

Jane Brody recently spoke in my neck of the woods. When the
local rag interviewed her, she totally ripped into Atkins.
Her comment was something along the lines of "Atkins is
ridiculous. How can you say you're never going to eat
another potato as long as you live."

It is amazing that people who protray themselves as experts
are so stupid they have never even read the books they make
judgements on. Is Jane Brody really such a moron that she
thinks no one in her audience read the book either, so that
no one would catch her in such a mistake? I guess so.

Folks, there's a maintenance phase on Atkins. Many folks on
Maintenance eat some potatoes regularly. Everyone who follows
the directions is expected to eat potatoes at some point, if
only to discover if it's a binge triger for them. It is a
part of the plan to try every carby food at some point, and
to consider any of them allowed as long as they don't cause
problems.

What's her charge on potatoes anyways? Maybe she thinks no one
in Europe was alive before Columbus brought spuds from America
or something. Potatoes may be well liked, but they sure aren't
needed. Humans lived for millenia without them.

GaryG wrote:

My only concern with the Atkins style approach is (as I understand it), the
de-emphasis on fruits and vegetables.

That as-you-understand-it point in there is key. What de-emphasis
on them? You mean the fact that both veggies and salads are
mandatory each and every day from day one? You mean that corn and
potatoes are not counted as veggies so the ones that are mandatory
from day one are broccoli and such? You mean that berries and
other fruit are encouraged starting a few weeks in? (This from
Atkins since other plans require more).

Many recent studies have consistently
shown that folks who eat more fruits and vegetables have less health
problems (cancers, in particular). See
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fruits.html for instance.

Notice who you write "fruits and vegitables" as if they are one
word? Yup, really they are the same category. Yet Atkins says
the veggie half is mandatory from day one and the fruit half is
a good idea starting a few weeks in.

So, are the Atkins folks getting enough fruits and veggies in
their diets?

Most Atkids eat far more veggies than they ever did before starting.

FWIW, some experts recommend 9 servings of fruit and vegetables
per day, while others recommend 5 or more. Are Atkins folks
getting near these recommended levels?

Most are, but what if these experts are wrong? Atkins starts with
about 2 daily mandatory servings and veggie plus a mandatory salad
every day. That level lasts 14 days. From there on the number of
servings is scheduled to go up weekly until the body hits its own
customized best level. Sure enough most end up in the range of
5-9 sevings of veggie per day during the loss phase (CCLLs cluster
around 50ish grams), and more during maintenance.

With the focus on potatoes from that "expert" I wonder if folks on
other plans get that much veggies or fruit, considering that corn
and potatoes don't count. It's way too easy to use spuds as a
crutch to avoid veggies no matter what plan you're on, or pasta or
some other empty starch source.

Most are, but what if these experts are wrong? Atkins starts with
about 2 daily mandatory servings and veggie plus a mandatory salad
every day. That level lasts 14 days.

IIRC, according to the USDA, isn't a 'serving' of veggies a half cup? That
would put Atkins induction at 6 servings per day of veggies if my memory is
correct.

LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/160/140
& hubby- 6' 310/188/180
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

GaryG wrote:



:: My only concern with the Atkins style approach is (as I understand
:: it), the de-emphasis on fruits and vegetables. Many recent studies
:: have consistently shown that folks who eat more fruits and
:: vegetables have less health problems (cancers, in particular). See
:: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fruits.html for instance.
::
:: So, are the Atkins folks getting enough fruits and veggies in their
:: diets? FWIW, some experts recommend 9 servings of fruit and
:: vegetables per day, while others recommend 5 or more. Are Atkins
:: folks getting near these recommended levels?


If you read the Atkins book, you will see EMPHASIS on vegetables.....
especially for the micronutrient content.

He emphasizes that the most recommended group of veggies to eat is also
fortunately typically high in micronutrient content.

Potatos are pretty low in micronutrients compared to the gold standard
of Broccoli. (Potatos are High Glycemic Index too). Green leafy Romano
lettuce is pretty nutrition filled compared to pale Iceburg lettuce.


Gary - exactly who are "Aktins folks"? Perhaps you should read up on

Atkins

and other LC plans, because you don't really know much about them.



I don't claim to know much about it...that's why I was asking the question
in this ng!

I was just trying to get a sense of how many servings of fruit and
vegetables a typical Atkins/LC dieter eats per day.

There is an Atkins "Food Pyramid". You can look at it here or download it.

http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/2/10-121449.html

You will clearly see that the more active you are, the more fruits and
vegetables are recommended, and even the more breads and pastas that are
recommended for people who burn a lot of calories by exercise.
Jim

LCer09 wrote:

Most are, but what if these experts are wrong? Atkins starts with
about 2 daily mandatory servings and veggie plus a mandatory salad
every day. That level lasts 14 days.

IIRC, according to the USDA, isn't a 'serving' of veggies a half cup? That
would put Atkins induction at 6 servings per day of veggies if my memory is
correct.

Good point. Is a serving a cup of a half cup? Being on Atkins
with all its mandatory veggies, a half cup seems a trivial
amount of veggie to me. Today for lunch I had a whole tomato
that must have been a half cup, plus a quarter head of raw
cauliflower that must have been a cup or more for my veggies,
and that's just lunch.

On a weekend, I'll sautee more than a half cup of onion just to
put in my omlette. Wow, a serving's only a half cup.

One tihng about veggies and Atkins. If your CCLL is 60-70 grams
of carb per day, there's no way you can get there with broccoli.
A serving of broccoli big enough is the size of my head or bigger.
Gotta have some sort of root veggies; I like rutabagas/swedes.
And/or gotta have fruits rather than veggies; I like berries.

LCer09 wrote:

Most are, but what if these experts are wrong? Atkins starts with
about 2 daily mandatory servings and veggie plus a mandatory salad
every day. That level lasts 14 days.

IIRC, according to the USDA, isn't a 'serving' of veggies a half cup? That
would put Atkins induction at 6 servings per day of veggies if my memory is
correct.

Good point. Is a serving a cup of a half cup? Being on Atkins
with all its mandatory veggies, a half cup seems a trivial
amount of veggie to me. Today for lunch I had a whole tomato
that must have been a half cup, plus a quarter head of raw
cauliflower that must have been a cup or more for my veggies,
and that's just lunch.

On a weekend, I'll sautee more than a half cup of onion just to
put in my omlette. Wow, a serving's only a half cup.

One tihng about veggies and Atkins. If your CCLL is 60-70 grams
of carb per day, there's no way you can get there with broccoli.
A serving of broccoli big enough is the size of my head or bigger.
Gotta have some sort of root veggies; I like rutabagas/swedes.
And/or gotta have fruits rather than veggies; I like berries.