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#11
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Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);
Ron Peterson wrote: Carmen wrote: Mr. Natural-Health wrote: A high-carb vegetarian diet will melt pounds off you. It has been proved over and over again. Just thought that you might want to know. You can provide a cite I suppose? Let me guess, the esteemed "Journal of 'Cause I Said So", May 2006 issue? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in595998.shtml gives an example of a high-carb vegetarian diet causing weight loss without any reduction of calories. I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high fructose soda pop diet. IIRC, the body is inefficient at converting carbohydrates to fat so that is a possible cause for the weight loss. Of course, the other nutrients in a vegetarian diet might be helpful in burning calories. I went looking for more information on this study. Lo and behold, there are some facts the CBS story omitted that are pertinent. (Color me all shocked and stuff.) First, the 34 participants were all known to have impaired glucose tolerance. Second, they were all between the ages of 55 and 80. This was not a normative group by any stretch of the imagination. The diets used were 41% fat/14% protein/45% carbohydrates for the "typical American diet" or 18% fat/19% protein/63% carbohydrates for the "low fat diet". Breakfast for the low fat group was either oatmeal or cereal and snacks were lemon pudding, popcorn or crispbreads. There was no idea given as to what the typical American diet group were given for snacks. One very real potential confound that jumps out at me in this study is the lack of palatability in the low fat diet. It doesn't sound as if much attention was given to that at all. Carmen |
#12
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Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);
jt wrote: On 5 May 2006 13:39:28 -0700, "TC" wrote: Ron Peterson wrote: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in595998.shtml gives an example of a high-carb vegetarian diet causing weight loss without any reduction of calories. Bull****. That study was crap. The only way you lose weight on a high carb diet is thru malnourishment and or abject starvation. Uh no actually, yes.... I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high fructose soda pop diet. Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no refined carbs. Really? A couple of bananas and I am full. Bananas are not refined carbs. They are a whole food carb. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods. You don't need to "fill up" on animal fats and proteins to get the few required nutrients as the rest can be found elsewhere. You need fat and protein for proper satiation. And you need animal fats and animal proteins. Many are essential nutrients, which mean that your body can't make them form other sources. They can't be found in non-animal sourced foods. IIRC, the body is inefficient at converting carbohydrates to fat so that is a possible cause for the weight loss. Of course, the other nutrients in a vegetarian diet might be helpful in burning calories. -- Ron More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat. Funny how I always gain weight when I eat more fat? Of course fat has more calories duh. Oddly enough, when I eat nothing but animal sourced fats and proteins and whole food carbs, I find it virtually impossible to gain weight. And I've specifically tested eating more and more fats and it has never led to weight gain. But, like your experience, it is just anecdotal. There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning calories. Activity is the key here With low carb, activity is useful in general, but not essential for weight maintenance. Any diet that requires excessive excercise to maintain weight is not a very effective diet, and is very impractical in todays society.. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health. Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it. It is quite easy to get the required nutrients and protein on a low fat diet. I think you are getting confused between a vegan diet and a low fat/vegetarian diet. Bull****. By restricting fat you automatically restrict fat soluble vitamins. By restricting animal proteins, you are automatically restricting important essential proteins. We need copious amounts of animal fats in our diets for optimal health. Any study of hunter-gatherer societies show their fondness for animal fats. Starvation of important animal-sourced nutrients will lead to weight loss, but it will most definitely not lead to optimal health. Oh really? So nutrient density is what causes obesity? LOL How did you get to this stupidity? Lack of food will make you thin, make you unhealthy, and will eventually kill you. You may want to advocate that in the name of vegetarianism, but I'd rather advocate a diet full of nutrition that allows you to be of normal weight. Eating the right nutrients in the optimal amounts will make you healthy and thin. The nutrients necessary for optimal health includes copious amounts of animal fats and proteins as well as nutrient dense whole food carbs. Food bereft of nutrients will fill the hole for a brief period of time, but will not nourish you. Bird and cattle feed grain and corn and corn sugars are not good human food. They lack many important nutrients in large enough amounts and they contains way too much starch and sugars, which has led to todays obesity crisis. Excessive carbs lead to obesity. Pork fat rules. TC |
#13
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NEWSFLASH: TC creates a new food group :(
TC wrote:
The nutrients necessary for optimal health includes copious amounts of animal fats and proteins as well as nutrient dense whole food carbs. nutrient dense whole food carbs??? Sounds an awful lot like whole grains to me. Perhaps, you mean legumes too? |
#14
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Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);
TC wrote: Ron Peterson wrote: I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high fructose soda pop diet. Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods. I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that it will cause one to lose weight. What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is needed? More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat. My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for converting carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are produced by that process? There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health. I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. What are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian diet? Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it. I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten besides refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps? -- Ron |
#15
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Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);
Ron Peterson wrote:
TC wrote: Ron Peterson wrote: I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high fructose soda pop diet. Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods. I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that it will cause one to lose weight. What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is needed? More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat. My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for converting carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are produced by that process? There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health. I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. What are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian diet? Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it. I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten besides refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps? -- Ron watermellon? -- MDS (Mister Doctor Sir) |
#16
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Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);
Ron Peterson wrote:
:: TC wrote: ::: Ron Peterson wrote: :: :::: I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high :::: fructose soda pop diet. :: ::: Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no ::: refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats ::: and proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are ::: lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods. :: :: I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that :: it will cause one to lose weight. :: :: What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't :: available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good :: sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is :: needed? :: ::: More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very ::: efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will ::: see in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat. :: :: My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for :: converting carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are :: produced by that process? :: ::: There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning ::: calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very ::: important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health. :: :: I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. What :: are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian :: diet? :: ::: Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at ::: it. :: :: I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there :: any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten :: besides refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps? Er, isn't tofu made from soy? hehe. |
#17
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Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);
Ron Peterson wrote:
TC wrote: Ron Peterson wrote: I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high fructose soda pop diet. Any diet that you can stick with for any length of time. And whatever that is, it's not the same diet from person to person. What's evil is the diet that diet X is the only acceptable one, no matter what X you use. Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods. By "whole food carbs" I take it you mean fiber plus low glycemic index carbs? They give a full feeling. Compare with protein and/or fat which make it longer until the next time you feel hungry. Different forms of satiety. I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that it will cause one to lose weight. I wasn't. They all do make the claim and i don't have an issue with that. My issue is claiming that other plans don't work for anyone, or that plan X is the only plan that works. All of them work for someone and several types of plans work for significant percentages of the population. What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is needed? Something I've read about fats but don't know how to test for - Certain populations can't convert plant omega-3s for use so they need fish. Vegitarian sources sometimes don't contain balanced amino acid ratios. Eat a variety of types of plant food and that's covered. Eat only one type of plant for months on end, bad idea. More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat. My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for converting carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are produced by that process? The standard write-up in texts I've read goes like this - Saturated fats can be manufactured by our bodies, can be burned for fuel, and can be stored. As a result they are not essential in the diet. Monounsaturates cannot be manufactured by our bodies, can be burned for fuel, and can not be stored. As a result they tend to not contribute to fat deposits. Omega-3 and -9 cannot be manufactured, can be burned, can be stored, are needed for cell membranes and other metabolic processes. As a result they are essential in the diet. Where I wonder is conversion among the types present in plant and animal foods. The above is sure to be over simplified. There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health. I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. Preventing absorbtion is slightly differen from increasing metabolism. What are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian diet? B12. Seems to be present in algae so it's likely to be in some other plants. Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it. I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten besides refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps? The question becomes how little meat you eat and how much variety in plants you eat. Go too low in meat and the variety required in the plant food goes up. Not an all or nothing proposition but one of levels of effort. Eating meat makes it much easier to get the basics. Then again switching to all meat makes it hard again. Better in the middle than at either edge. |
#18
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Increasing evidence supports carb diets for weight loss and improvement in cardiovascular disease (CVD);
Ron Peterson wrote: TC wrote: Ron Peterson wrote: I suppose just about any diet shows a weight loss except the high fructose soda pop diet. Wrong again. A diet has to satiate you. That requires a diet with no refined carbs. You need whole food carbs. And you need animal fats and proteins to fill you up and provide important nutrients that are lacking in any diet that excludes animal sourced foods. I was being sarcastic in that everybody advocating a diet claims that it will cause one to lose weight. What animal fats and proteins are important nutritionally that aren't available from vegetarian sources? I know that some fish are good sources of omega-3 fatty acids, but is there something else that is needed? Vegetarians run the risk of deficiencies in these specific nutrients unless they really do their homework and specifically strive to ensure that their diets contains enough of these from quality sources. Needless to say, most vegetarians will not have a clue unless they've been specifically trained in nutrition and cooking and they work meticulously to ensure that they do get, not just some of these nutrients, but all of them, and not just a *bit* of them of the *optimum* amount of them. Vitamins: Vitamin B-12 Vitamin B-6 Vitamin D Amino Acids (Proteins): Tryptophan Methionine Lysine Isoleucine Threonine Minerals: Calcium ferritin zinc Fatty acids (fats): linoleic acid linolenic acid They may get some of these nutrients but they will be hard pressed to get the optimum amounts of these nutrients. They will always run the risk of these deficiencies. They also run the risk of too much of these substances which are very unhealthy: Phytates oxalates alpha-amylase inhitors protease inhibitors alkylrescorcinols More utter BS. The body takes refined carbs and converts them very efficiently into body fat. Read any bio-chem textbook and you will see in the first or second chapter that carbs easily convert to fat. My readings indicate that there are some inefficiencies for converting carbs into fat. Does anyone know which fatty acids are produced by that process? Wrong. Carbs are easily and primarily converted to fats. For example, bears fatten up on berries in the summer. There is nothing in a vegetarian diet that is helpful in burning calories. And a vegetarian diet is missing a couple of dozen very important nutrients in sufficient amounts for optimal health. I thought that fiber reduced the amounts of nutrients absorbed. What are those important nutrients that are missing from a vegetarian diet? FIBER IS NOT A NUTRIENT. And if it prevents you from getting important nutrients, it is then an anti-nutrient or a negative-nutrient. Vegetarians run the risk of deficiencies in these specific nutrients unless they really do their homework and specifically strive to ensure that their diets contains enough of these from quality sources. Needless to say, most vegetarians will not have a clue unless they've been specifically trained in nutrition and cooking and they work meticulously to ensure that they do get, not just some of these nutrients, but all of them, and not just a *bit* of them of the *optimum* amount of them. Vitamins: Vitamin B-12 Vitamin B-6 Vitamin D Amino Acids (Proteins): Tryptophan Methionine Lysine Isoleucine Threonine Minerals: Calcium ferritin zinc Fatty acids (fats): linoleic acid linolenic acid They may get some of these nutrients but they will be hard pressed to get the optimum amounts of these nutrients. They will always run the risk of these deficiencies. They also run the risk of too much of these substances which are very unhealthy: Phytates oxalates alpha-amylase inhitors protease inhibitors alkylrescorcinols Vegetarianism is not good nutrition, regardless of how you look at it. I am not a vegetarian, but eat many things that aren't meat. Is there any particular vegetarian food that you feel shouldn't be eaten besides refined carbohydrates? Tofu, perhaps? -- Ron Tofu is unfermented soy beans which contain phyto-estrogens and phyto-toxins that can cause a lot of health problems, and it displaces healthier (animal) proteins from your diet. Asians traditionally only eat FERMENTED soy products and only as CONDIMENTS. As in tempeh, miso and soya sauce. They only ate soy as a source of protein in times of extreme deprivation and starvation. Soy is not REAL FOOD. TC |
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