weight-loss / fitness software, fitday et al

Based on my limited study, I would say that simply keeping track (both
of what I eat and what exercise I do) is a huge factor.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The commitment to journaling is a big step in
the direction of success, in my opinion.

I think it would make for a worthwhile study;
compare two groups of dieters, one group has
to keep a basic journal (macronutrients, calories,
water, exercise, weight, and any strong emotions)
and the other doesn't. I'd bet that the journaling
group ends up losing more weight in less time.

I'd also bet that people that know nothing at all
about nutrition or dieting would lose weight by
doing nothing more than keeping a journal. The
feedback and extra effort required by journaling
is likely to cause weight loss in and of itself.
In other words, the act of gathering and entering
the data, and the visual feedback are powerful.
--

LurfysMa wrote:
:: On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 03:41:45 GMT, "Tim" wrote:
::
::: Forget about the software that claims to calculate your metabolism
::: or the ones that give you calories burned vs calories eaten
::: information, it's just a gimmick. It is basically impossible for
::: software to accomplish this because the nutrition content of food
::: could vary a lot even if you are eating the same things, also
::: energy expenditure by exercise could vary a lot based on many
::: factors.
::
:: The values do vary, sometimes quite a lot, but that does not make it
:: impossible. There are powerful statistical tools that can, over time,
:: tease out amazing data from apparent chaos. Now, whether any of these
:: programs actually do that, is another matter.
::
::: People that say that gimmicks like that work say that just because
::: they are watching what they eat and that is 90% of your success not
::: the nonsense numbers.
::
:: Have you tested these products? If you have, I'd like to see your
:: impressions. I'll add them to my data base.
::
:: Otherwise, you are making a lot of attributions about products you
:: haven't tried and people you don't know. You may be right, but you
:: may be wrong.
::
:: Based on my limited study, I would say that simply keeping track
:: (both of what I eat and what exercise I do) is a huge factor.

Absolutely its a huge factor. The poster is clueless. Tracking food intake
and exercise (and other things such as emotional states and times when
you're binging, etc.) can easily be used by any intelligent person to
produce weight loss. It is true that this isn't the reason for weight loss,
because a person ahs to decide to do some combintation of eating less and
exercising more to produce weight change. Used properly as a tool, the
software can be a tremendous aid.

It is also true that some people wont' like tracking. the good news is that
some people can be effective at weight control without tracking. I see no
problem there. I personally like to track. if I get up 5 lbs over my target
I just starting tracking with fitday until I get right back to where I want
to be. The good news for me is that I no longer need to track all the time.
Standing on the scale everyday is also a good way to keep tabs on what's
happening, for some. Some people freak out, I don't.

No guy, you are the clueless one.

If you want to spend endless hours analyzing nonsense numbers that are based
on estimations of estimations then have a blast.

Re-read my post, I **never** said that tracking your diet and exercise was a
bad idea, no way!! hell, I track my diet and exercise all the time. What I
don't do is to be silly and do stupid things like comparing calories eaten
vs calories burned, that just idiotic.

There is no doubt that a piece of software has the capacity to track
everything with a degree of extreme accuracy, the problem is that this
accuracy is based on the reliability of the numbers you put in.

How the hell do you think they calculate nutrition facts for foods? Do you
think companies that sell food hire a team of scientist to analyze
everything with absolute accuracy? The dam nutrition's facts for foods are
estimations of estimations, and these estimations are based on a limited
sample of foods and these nutrition facts will vary even more depending on
how you cook the food etc etc. These numbers provide you with just a basic
idea of what you are putting in your mouth. Read the USDA documentation. The
exact same thing applies when you calculate the energy expended during
exercise.

The best thing to do is quite simple, set a target intake calorie amount and
after a week see how much weight you gain or lost and adjust the calorie
intake appropriately.

And yes, I have a good friend that is a dietician. 95% of the people that go
with here track their diet by using portions (they don't even count
calories). The simple fact of watching what their eat makes all the
difference, basing your calorie intake on a software that claims to
understand your metabolism or by comparing calories eaten vs calories burned
is simple RETARDED.

Hey there,

I'm the author of Open Fitness (http://www.workoutware.com), so I'll
offer some comments on differences I've noticed between Open Fitness
and the other software that's out there.

One of the things you'll find that Open Fitness offers, which is
different from the others, is a way to easily share any of your fitness
info (workouts, progress charts, etc) through email, or through an
integrated message board, called the Open Fitness Network
(http://www.openfitness.net). For instance, you could upload your
favorite workout, and all Open Fitness users would have access to it.
They could download it right into their copy of Open Fitness.

Open Fitness is more centered around progress and staying motivated
than other software packages. In addition to making it easy to share
progress, it's also easy to see your progress. Open Fitness
automatically looks at your history and offers progress messages every
time you use it (like 'your bodyweight decreased by X this month',
etc). It also provides comprehensive progress reports, that can be
viewed with just one click.

Another difference is that it can sync with Palm-based devices. I plan
my workouts on the desktop (once a month or so), then they're all
automatically copied to my Treo phone. at the gym, I can enter my
weight/reps into the phone, then they're automatically copied back to
the desktop software.

Open Fitness is one of the few fitness software packages that runs on
pretty much any platform (including Mac and Linux).

Hopefully that information will save you a little time in your
comparison.


LurfysMa wrote:
I started looking around for diet & fitness software and found quite a
number of candidates. Checking them all out would be a bit of work so
I thought I'd see if some of the folks on these ngs might like to
contribute.

Here's my proposal: I'll create a little database of the more common
or popular fitness software offerings. I'll add fields for whatever
features people feel are relevant and important, such as price,
platform (Win, Mac, Palm, online), support, awards, units (English,
metric), and other features. I'll test as many of them as I can.
Anyone else who wants to test a product can submit reviews and I'll
try to summarize the information in the database.

I'll post the results periodically.

To get us started, here are the products I was able to find in a
couple of hours of searching. I limited myself to software costing
less than $100.



Fitday
http://www.fitday.com/

Fitess Assistant
http://www.x3msoftware.com/

Open Fitness
http://www.workoutware.com/

Diet Power
http://www.dietpower.com/

Health Engage Diet + Fitness
http://www.healthengage.com/healthen...etfitness.html

Natural Physiques
http://www.naturalphysiques.com/nutrition/

WeightMania Pro
http://www.weightmania.com/index.html

BeNutriFit
http://www.benutrifit.com/default.asp

Performance Diet Pro
http://www.health-runr.com/products/products.htm

BodyFitdb
http://www.bodyfitdb.com/

Diet Pro
http://www.dietpro.net/default.htm

Fit Body Pro

Weight by Date
http://www.weightbydate.com/index.html

Desktop Diet

CalorieKing Nutrition & Exercise Manager
http://www.calorieking.com/software/ckdietdiarywin.php



--

On 13 Oct 2006 06:28:27 -0700, "Matt" wrote:

Hey there,

I'm the author of Open Fitness (http://www.workoutware.com), so I'll
offer some comments on differences I've noticed between Open Fitness
and the other software that's out there.

One of the things you'll find that Open Fitness offers, which is
different from the others, is a way to easily share any of your fitness
info (workouts, progress charts, etc) through email, or through an
integrated message board, called the Open Fitness Network
(http://www.openfitness.net). For instance, you could upload your
favorite workout, and all Open Fitness users would have access to it.
They could download it right into their copy of Open Fitness.

Open Fitness is more centered around progress and staying motivated
than other software packages. In addition to making it easy to share
progress, it's also easy to see your progress. Open Fitness
automatically looks at your history and offers progress messages every
time you use it (like 'your bodyweight decreased by X this month',
etc). It also provides comprehensive progress reports, that can be
viewed with just one click.

Another difference is that it can sync with Palm-based devices. I plan
my workouts on the desktop (once a month or so), then they're all
automatically copied to my Treo phone. at the gym, I can enter my
weight/reps into the phone, then they're automatically copied back to
the desktop software.

Open Fitness is one of the few fitness software packages that runs on
pretty much any platform (including Mac and Linux).

Hopefully that information will save you a little time in your
comparison.

Thanks for the comments. In my opinion, having the developers
contribute to relevant discussion groups is a HUGE plus for any
package.

I will definitely take a look at your program.

I take it Open Fitness is being actively developed, right? What is the
release history for the past couple ot years?

Do you encourage user feedback and does that feedback influence the
product?

--

Yes, Open Fitness is still actively being developed. Typically, a new
release comes out late in the fall. Last year, there was a major
release some time in October. The software was first released in 1998,
under a different name, and Open Fitness 1.x is basically release 7.x
of that software. So, it has averaged just under 1 major release per
year. In my opinion, last year's release was the biggest effort and the
biggest leap forward since the software first came out 8 years ago.

Open Fitness has had much more time to evolve than many competitors
(prototypes of it were being developed as far back as 1995). When the
version 1.0 came out in '98, I only remember there being 2 serious
competitors.

Each release, user feedback has had a huge impact on the software. Many
of the best ideas have come from the folks who use it every day.


LurfysMa wrote:
On 13 Oct 2006 06:28:27 -0700, "Matt" wrote:

Hey there,

I'm the author of Open Fitness (http://www.workoutware.com), so I'll
offer some comments on differences I've noticed between Open Fitness
and the other software that's out there.

One of the things you'll find that Open Fitness offers, which is
different from the others, is a way to easily share any of your fitness
info (workouts, progress charts, etc) through email, or through an
integrated message board, called the Open Fitness Network
(http://www.openfitness.net). For instance, you could upload your
favorite workout, and all Open Fitness users would have access to it.
They could download it right into their copy of Open Fitness.

Open Fitness is more centered around progress and staying motivated
than other software packages. In addition to making it easy to share
progress, it's also easy to see your progress. Open Fitness
automatically looks at your history and offers progress messages every
time you use it (like 'your bodyweight decreased by X this month',
etc). It also provides comprehensive progress reports, that can be
viewed with just one click.

Another difference is that it can sync with Palm-based devices. I plan
my workouts on the desktop (once a month or so), then they're all
automatically copied to my Treo phone. at the gym, I can enter my
weight/reps into the phone, then they're automatically copied back to
the desktop software.

Open Fitness is one of the few fitness software packages that runs on
pretty much any platform (including Mac and Linux).

Hopefully that information will save you a little time in your
comparison.

Thanks for the comments. In my opinion, having the developers
contribute to relevant discussion groups is a HUGE plus for any
package.

I will definitely take a look at your program.

I take it Open Fitness is being actively developed, right? What is the
release history for the past couple ot years?

Do you encourage user feedback and does that feedback influence the
product?

--

Tim wrote:
:: No guy, you are the clueless one.
::
:: If you want to spend endless hours analyzing nonsense numbers that
:: are based on estimations of estimations then have a blast.

One need not do that. Only a clueless wonder would think it's ncessary.

::
:: Re-read my post, I **never** said that tracking your diet and
:: exercise was a bad idea, no way!! hell, I track my diet and exercise
:: all the time. What I don't do is to be silly and do stupid things
:: like comparing calories eaten vs calories burned, that just idiotic.
::
:: There is no doubt that a piece of software has the capacity to track
:: everything with a degree of extreme accuracy, the problem is that
:: this accuracy is based on the reliability of the numbers you put in.

Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just measure
portions and account for foods you eat. Just because software gives an
estimate of daily calories burned doesn't make the software unless. It
provides a guide and if used correctly it can lead to successful weight
loss.

::
:: How the hell do you think they calculate nutrition facts for foods?
:: Do you think companies that sell food hire a team of scientist to
:: analyze everything with absolute accuracy? The dam nutrition's facts
:: for foods are estimations of estimations, and these estimations are
:: based on a limited sample of foods and these nutrition facts will
:: vary even more depending on how you cook the food etc etc. These
:: numbers provide you with just a basic idea of what you are putting
:: in your mouth. Read the USDA documentation. The exact same thing
:: applies when you calculate the energy expended during exercise.

That was a complete waste of your time to type.

::
:: The best thing to do is quite simple, set a target intake calorie
:: amount and after a week see how much weight you gain or lost and
:: adjust the calorie intake appropriately.

Not, that's not the best thing. Best is to start at about 10x your body
weight in calories without any special exercise session. Only few people
will gain anything there. Then look at your loss after about 2 weeks (1 may
not be a enough for some). From that information you can back out your
burn-rate. If you're happy with that rate of loss, fine. If it's too much,
eat a bit more. If not, either eat a bit less or add exercise.

::
:: And yes, I have a good friend that is a dietician. 95% of the people
:: that go with here track their diet by using portions (they don't
:: even count calories). The simple fact of watching what their eat
:: makes all the difference, basing your calorie intake on a software
:: that claims to understand your metabolism or by comparing calories
:: eaten vs calories burned is simple RETARDED.

Nonsense. You just can't do it. I've done it successfully and so have
others. Software only provides an estimate and doesn't claim to be exact
for everyone. It has little if any bearing on anything. Same thing for
calories burned from exercise. It doesn't matter if the numbers are exact.
They aren't. But the give a more or less consistent estimate that, when
used by an intelligent person, can used to achieve weight loss.

All the software that I have seen that offer these features sell them as
amazing features. Ours software is so smart it will adjust your diet based
on your metabolism they say. With our software, you can compare calories
eaten vs calories burned so that you can adjust your diet and achieve
success they say.



You don't think this ass holes are irresponsible *******s? You said it
yourself; an intelligent person can use this data intelligently and benefit
from it. Unfortunately 99% of the people using diet software are clueless
about all of the realities regarding this information.



The bottom line is that you have to ** listen to what your body tells you**
and not what a piece of crap software is telling you. Gazillions of people
remain trimed and in shape throughout their lives because they listen to
their bodies not a stupid chart. That should be the goal of the software.

Companies that capitalize on the ignorance of people regarding nutrition
have no ethics these companies should make it very obvious to people that
these numbers are just for entertainment purposes. But they don't, because
if they do then the product is less appealing and that's no good because it's
all about the money.

And please, I have yet to meet a dietician that tells you to track your diet
by calories, every single dietician will tells you to watch the quality of
food and track portions. If you say no to that you either have never spoken
to a dietician or are flat out lying with your statement.


Have a good day.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just measure
portions and account for foods you eat.

Rog, you're a convert......to reality.

Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?

Mu wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just measure
portions and account for foods you eat.

Rog, you're a convert......to reality.

.... which is the truth.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life ... " -- LORD Jesus Christ

Amen !

Laus Deo ! !

Marana tha ! ! !

Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?

Tsk, tsk... remember the 2PD-OMER Approach has never been a diet from
the outset despite the misnomer:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

The proof is that we can dovetail the 2PD-OMER Approach with any
diet... even with the much maligned low-carb diet.

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water, dear friend
Mu whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...ad7fe68478acf?