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#41
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
"Beverly" wrote in message ... Caleb wrote: I do not write these posts to irritate you or anyone else but to support those going on their difficult journey. I'd be happy to discuss any aspect of my approach to weight loss with anyone who is asking a serious question. This topic is too important to shut out voices that may be helpful. Caleb Isn't that why you setup the low-calorie group? That's why there are several groups - low-carb, WW, low-cal, very low-cal etc. Posting in the appropriate group doesn't require too much thought. Posting in the wrong group is often looked upon as trolling. Who was it said that the definition of stupidity is doing something, getting a bad result, and doing the same thing expecting it to come out differently? Sound like anybody we know? |
#42
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
"teachrmama" wrote in message ... I agree with you that losing weight and regaining it is not a good way to maintain a healthy weight or lifestyle. I certainly have no intentions of following such a plan. I have come too far in my own efforts to want to try a plan that is not a total change to a new way of eating. But I am curious as to Caleb's reasons for the choices he is making, and how he came to make the choices he has. Maybe he comes back here repeatedly because he is learning new approaches each time he comes. I see him as very polite--I haven't seen him trying to force his choices on anyone else. I do hope that he will realize that if he continues with the healthy eating choices he makes in the 100 days, he will be healthier than if he regains and reloses the same weight time after time. But having polite conversations with him does not mean that I am espousing his choices, and I am not certain why it riles up some of the regular posters here. I find that odd. I don't know how long you've been around ASD - but if you realize that the long term regular posters have something seriously against this guy, you should take that into consideration. Especially when you realize it is the successful long term posters who are generally mild mannered and get on well with most others. You find it odd - you should think about it and realize that these people might have a darned good reason for it. |
#43
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
On Feb 4, 10:49 am, "teachrmama" wrote:
"determined" wrote in message . .. "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "LFM" wrote in message news "teachrmama" wrote in message ... Teachrmama - if you are truely interested in a dialog with this poster, please take it to Alt.support.diet.low-calorie You will find very little support of this poster in here Actually, there are topics here that I do not enter opinions on because they are of no interest to me. It is easy to just skip over them. I understand that you feel great disdain for this poster, but you are not required to read his posts, or any conversations that he is in. I always respond respectfully to other posters, and do not feel that my conversation with Caleb is violating any of this newsgroup's rules and regulations. If you were standing behind me in the grocery store and I were carrying on a conversation with Caleb, would you ask that we go to McDonald's and discuss things, rather than conversing in a public place you just happened to be in? With all due respect, that is how I feel you are speaking to me here. You know what? Caleb is nothing more than a troll... The fact that you want to maintain a dialogue with a troll kind of hurts your own credibility. It doesn't take a whole lot of knowledge of diet/health to know that his approach is not healthy or effective at permanent weight loss. If you can't figure that out for yourself, fine. But it leaves the rest of us here who have seen him go through this countless times absolutely flabbergasted and exasperated. I agree with you that losing weight and regaining it is not a good way to maintain a healthy weight or lifestyle. I certainly have no intentions of following such a plan. I have come too far in my own efforts to want to try a plan that is not a total change to a new way of eating. But I am curious as to Caleb's reasons for the choices he is making, and how he came to make the choices he has. Maybe he comes back here repeatedly because he is learning new approaches each time he comes. I see him as very polite--I haven't seen him trying to force his choices on anyone else. I do hope that he will realize that if he continues with the healthy eating choices he makes in the 100 days, he will be healthier than if he regains and reloses the same weight time after time. But having polite conversations with him does not mean that I am espousing his choices, and I am not certain why it riles up some of the regular posters here. I find that odd. Teachrmama -- I endorse totally what you are saying. I do not want to regain the weight and I sure hope I don't. But I am learning new techniques each time I try this. Rather like stepping into the same stream twice -- things change. I also try not to be negative towards the efforts of others. The weight loss journey is difficult and long for others and negative comments do not help at all. I think the only times I have been negative to others were the times I was flamed by others. Yours truly, Caleb |
#44
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
On Feb 4, 3:00 pm, "Patricia Heil" wrote:
"Beverly" wrote in message ... Caleb wrote: I do not write these posts to irritate you or anyone else but to support those going on their difficult journey. I'd be happy to discuss any aspect of my approach to weight loss with anyone who is asking a serious question. This topic is too important to shut out voices that may be helpful. Caleb Isn't that why you setup the low-calorie group? That's why there are several groups - low-carb, WW, low-cal, very low-cal etc. Posting in the appropriate group doesn't require too much thought. Posting in the wrong group is often looked upon as trolling. Who was it said that the definition of stupidity is doing something, getting a bad result, and doing the same thing expecting it to come out differently? Sound like anybody we know?- Hide quoted text - The definitely of "Insanity" is doing something over and over again, expecting different results. |
#45
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
On Feb 4, 11:03 am, Chris Braun wrote:
On 4 Feb 2007 06:53:33 -0800, "Caleb" wrote: One of the reasons (I think) some people react so viscerally to my posts is that I have been able to adhere to a variety of techniques that result in weight loss and then I stick to them long enough to lose weight and be healthy, and I post the details of my journey as I go along. I don't know anyone else here who has done so in such fine detail on an ongoing basis. Um, you might try googling my "Food & Exercise" posts for the last 4 years or so. I've posted fine detail of my diet and exercise on a daily basis for all that time -- showing my journey to losing well over 100 lbs. and MAINTAINING THAT LOSS. My problem with your posts -- having seen you here now off and on for many years -- is that you don't really share with newbies on the list the fact that you do this once a year or so, lose a lot of weight, and then gain it all back. Because this isn't obvious to the newbies, many are attracted to your approach because of its apparent success. Few of these people, though, would deliberately choose a diet approach that had no demonstrated success in keeping weight off. I think what concerns many of us is that you present yourself as an expert without actually having achieved what most of us would call success at weight loss. Maybe you would have weighed 500 lbs by now if you didn't do this annually, so to that extent I guess you could call your method a proven approach to weight maintenance (though it looks like the average is creeping up a bit). But I doubt it's what most people are hoping to accomplish. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004 Chris - I applaud your weight loss! I probably have told you that before. That's great! But there are many, many roads to Rome and the one you took worked for. Great again about your success! But you cannot declare by fiat that no other methods work. (Or you can, but it is nonsensical to do so.) Also, a lot of people want to lose weight fairly rapidly - indeed, a lot of people have to lose weight or suffer bad medical consequences. I think it would be very inappropriate to tell them, "No - you can't use these methods to lose weight because I am not sure how you will maintain your weight loss!" I think you would never say that, but that's the sense I get from reading your posts. I sure am an enthusiastic supporter of those who do lose weight, pretty much however their method. My approach is very middle of the road - a 1000 to 1200 calorie a day diet long enough until it's successful. This is the approach that many, many physicians recommend to their clients. There is enough of a weight loss to maintain motivation, and I like emphasizing a certain time period because it's easier for me to stay on task for a period of time. Life is complicated for everyone - there will never be any more Renaissance people, people who know everything there is to know. But we compartmentalize our ignorance somewhat. (Okay, my computer works - it's magic. These little electrons go zapping around and words appear, etc. I drive over bridges but don't know exactly how the bridges are built, how they're tested for stress, etc.) If I can find techniques that help me do the things - especially the important things -- I want to do, then I am happy with that. And I am happy with some of the simple techniques and insights that have come my way. I tend to be a "glass half-full" kind of person (and I'm nothing like VP Cheney, I hope). Especially I am optimistic now about this matter of weight loss, and I know what has to be done for me to accomplish it my way. I sure hope that people wanting to lose weight are able to check with their primary care provider or other medical provider regarding advice. That sure beats anonymous health advice on the internet by people who may or may not know what they are talking about and sure as heck don't know much about the people reading the advice they give out so freely. Our stance should be one of support rather than vitriol, humility rather than arrogance. There are too many cock-sure people in the world who have little reason to be that way. Let's let a thousand flowers bloom! Anyway, just my thoughts on these matters. Yours, Caleb |
#46
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
On Feb 4, 11:01 am, "teachrmama" wrote:
"Caleb" wrote in message ups.com... On Feb 4, 6:14 am, "Beverly" wrote: janice wrote: On 3 Feb 2007 14:03:54 -0800, "Caleb" wrote: On Feb 2, 9:56 pm, "SFrunner" wrote: On Feb 2, 9:30 pm, " wrote: On Feb 1, 3:37 pm, "Caleb" wrote: This is an invitation to anyone who would like to join alt.support.diet.low-calorie - I've started another 100 Day Diet and am posting on alt-support.diet.low-calorie. Seems to be going quite well and I sure intend to keep posting through May and maybe (hopefully) longer. If anyone else wants to share their successes or questions about losing weight through low-calorie methods, I'd be delighted to see them there! Yours, Caleb Day 32 - 19 pounds gone Please tell us what has been your average daily calorie intake in the last week. Thanks. Please don't. If you want to really know, Google his posts from past years. It's always the same and some of us are sick and tired of the BS. SFRunner -- May I suggest you use your block sender button if you don't like my posts? This "some of us are sick and tired" sounds quite childish and makes use of a logical fallacy called "the band wagon effect." Seems to me that some people are very, very quick to criticize others. Caleb Caleb - ISTR that it was you who started asd.low-calorie for the very reason that people here were not able to relate to your approach to dieting and weight loss. Surely then it's not unreasonable to expect you to restrict your postings to that group if you want to continue repeating your 100 day regime. janice I agree, janice. Caleb, I always tried to be civil in my replies to you. But I find it very hard to understand why someone would want to continue on the yo-yo diet path as long as you have. You may contend that it's healthier than remaining overweight but I'll suggest that it's healthier to work to maintain that weight loss. Isn't your weight at the beginning of this cycle higher than it was in previous attempts? IIRC your previous highs were in the 240 range and I believe it's 265 this time. You indicate your goal weight is 200. If that's correct then you're trying to lose 65 pounds in 100 days and that isn't considered a healthy weightloss rate. Your previous choice of food during your 100 days wasn't real healthy either. I seem to recall it contained a lot of tuna or sardines and cabbage soup. A few of the exercises you chose weren't considered exactly safe. I'm referring to carrying and swinging weights while walking. You're a well educated man but you fail to see the problems associated with your diet choices. As many others in the group have suggested you might want to use the group you setup for this type of dieting as it's not well received in this type of group. In the past you preached your diet to many who were just starting their weightloss journey and were eager to grab onto anything that would allow rapid weight loss instead of choosing a method that would allow them to lose at a sensible rate and have a much better chance of maintaining their weightloss. There are many health risks associated with a rapid weightloss. You might want to consider these risks against your yo-yo diet plan. Beverly 177/142/~140 SINCE 1996 I guess one reason I'm cheerful is that weight loss is straightforward -- especially if one chooses an effective approach and sticks with it. There are a variety of reasons not to stick to an effective approach, and these reasons include people telling you that your approach is stupid, that it will not work, that it flies in the face of accepted, methods, etc., etc., etc. Such statements are too often toxic to those trying to lose weight and to get themselves healthier in a variety of ways. The old line -- "everybody knows" -- has been proven wrong time and again. Everybody just doesn't know effective and accurate methods. Going through some of the inaccurate advice I have heard on this list -- even from those who were apparently quite respected here -- would not be useful. If you don't like what I am saying, you can employ a killfile/block sender option. I hope that our ends are the same -- to be healthier and to support others as they continue in the long and difficult journey to health. A thousand roads lead to health -- or at least a lot of roads do. Actually, I feel very good about the methods I have used. Almost every single time I have tried this approach I have lost large amounts of weight and I have done so without much emotional turmoil. No second guessing, half-way measures. You probably are aware how difficult it is for many people to lose significant amounts of weight. Many, many try and most don't make it. The general approached I take clearly have effectively worked for me in the past and they are working for me again. They will work this way in the future. While people may not want to employ them, perhaps one or two of the techniques might be useful. And if not then this might be a demonstration that not every posting is helpful to every single reader. I think several of my views (e.g., ignoring the distractive and possibly bad advice of others, doing what works for you regardless of shrill criticism by others, being "good enough for long enough" to work meaningful health change, etc.) are not common here but surely will be helpful to those trying to lose weight. Not only can too many cooks spoil the broth, but too many people giving advice can lead people to maintaining their extra poundage. One of the reasons (I think) some people react so viscerally to my posts is that I have been able to adhere to a variety of techniques that result in weight loss and then I stick to them long enough to lose weight and be healthy, and I post the details of my journey as I go along. I don't know anyone else here who has done so in such fine detail on an ongoing basis. I also have stuck with my plan (e.g., I am not going to try new diets as larger varieties of food make me eat more, I am not going to boost my daily calorie intake in the unproved and false expectation that eating more calories will allow me to lose more weight, etc.) and perhaps that has irritated others who want to give advice. But a lot of the time the words that should come out of our keyboards should be: "Hey, that's terrific!" Well done! Keep it up! You're doing great!" And words such as that are too rare from some of the Usenetters here. We find flaws in the approaches of others and demean the intentions and progress that others make IF IT DOESN'T COMPORT TO OUR OWN NARROW STANDARDS OF WHAT PROGRESS IS. I do not write these posts to irritate you or anyone else but to support those going on their difficult journey. I'd be happy to discuss any aspect of my approach to weight loss with anyone who is asking a serious question. This topic is too important to shut out voices that may be helpful. You're right about the fact that losing weight is not that difficult, Caleb. It really isn't. That's why some of these weight loss companies are thriving. They depend on people eating their prepackaged, low calorie meals--and the pounds fly off. It isn't the losing that is the difficult part of the proposition--it's keeping the weight off. That is the part of your plan that I have not seen you talk about yet. I would be interested in knowing how you plan to maintain your weight loss once you reach your goal. For me, I am still in the process of losing weight, but I know that once I get to goal, I will need to continue to keep watch on how much I eat, and will need to continue with my physical activities to maintain my weight. There is no option to go back to the way I ate before. Teachrmama - I agree with you about this weight-loss thing. There are two aspects to it, I think: 1. Weight loss, and 2. Weight loss management. I think I'm pretty good at systematic weigh loss now. I used to be fairly good at maintenance but then I hurt my back and required surgery. Before then I would run long distances, probably completed 10 marathons, etc. With the removal of disk L5-S1, my jogging days were over. And so in 1999 my weight reached 272 pounds (I think). And it hit me on a trip to my physician that if I were good for the next hundred days, I would be a hell of a lot healthier. (The trip to the doc was about my 23rd wedding anniversary.) I also realized that 100 days from that point would take me to the day before Thanksgiving. I penciled it out, realized what I had to do, and I did it. I lost about 50 pounds in that time. I've done that several times since then. I haven't been as good at weight loss management. My plans now are to take my scale downstairs after I reach 200 pounds and weigh myself every night before dinner. And if I go over a five pound limit (such as 205), to immediately return to a vigorous weight loss regimen. (You can take a look at the "hacker's diet" on Wikipedia for one successful approach to this conundrum.) I too have to cut down the calories. Also I know that I can't do the kind of heavy exercise I used to do, although I did just come back from three and a half hours of heavy snowshoeing and I feel great! Seems to me that if I had a neighbor who was a skilled plumber but a lousy gardener, I probably would ask about plumbing matters, such as repairing a leaking faucet. And so would a lot of other people who wanted faucets that don't drip. (There is a great quote I remember from grad school: "If a society prizes philosophy above plumbing, we're going to have pipes that leak and ideas that don't hold water!" Seems to me that if we emphasize generalities and denigrate specific methods, we will employ a lot fewer successful methods.) Anyway, that's my history - so far! Yours truly, Caleb |
#47
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
"LFM" wrote in message news "teachrmama" wrote in message ... I agree with you that losing weight and regaining it is not a good way to maintain a healthy weight or lifestyle. I certainly have no intentions of following such a plan. I have come too far in my own efforts to want to try a plan that is not a total change to a new way of eating. But I am curious as to Caleb's reasons for the choices he is making, and how he came to make the choices he has. Maybe he comes back here repeatedly because he is learning new approaches each time he comes. I see him as very polite--I haven't seen him trying to force his choices on anyone else. I do hope that he will realize that if he continues with the healthy eating choices he makes in the 100 days, he will be healthier than if he regains and reloses the same weight time after time. But having polite conversations with him does not mean that I am espousing his choices, and I am not certain why it riles up some of the regular posters here. I find that odd. I don't know how long you've been around ASD - but if you realize that the long term regular posters have something seriously against this guy, you should take that into consideration. Especially when you realize it is the successful long term posters who are generally mild mannered and get on well with most others. You find it odd - you should think about it and realize that these people might have a darned good reason for it. I don't doubt that you have a darn good reason for your choices. I'm just not clear on why you think that gives you the right to tell me I shouldn't talk to him either. THAT's the part that I find odd. |
#48
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
"Caleb" wrote in message ups.com... On Feb 4, 10:49 am, "teachrmama" wrote: "determined" wrote in message . .. "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "LFM" wrote in message news "teachrmama" wrote in message ... Teachrmama - if you are truely interested in a dialog with this poster, please take it to Alt.support.diet.low-calorie You will find very little support of this poster in here Actually, there are topics here that I do not enter opinions on because they are of no interest to me. It is easy to just skip over them. I understand that you feel great disdain for this poster, but you are not required to read his posts, or any conversations that he is in. I always respond respectfully to other posters, and do not feel that my conversation with Caleb is violating any of this newsgroup's rules and regulations. If you were standing behind me in the grocery store and I were carrying on a conversation with Caleb, would you ask that we go to McDonald's and discuss things, rather than conversing in a public place you just happened to be in? With all due respect, that is how I feel you are speaking to me here. You know what? Caleb is nothing more than a troll... The fact that you want to maintain a dialogue with a troll kind of hurts your own credibility. It doesn't take a whole lot of knowledge of diet/health to know that his approach is not healthy or effective at permanent weight loss. If you can't figure that out for yourself, fine. But it leaves the rest of us here who have seen him go through this countless times absolutely flabbergasted and exasperated. I agree with you that losing weight and regaining it is not a good way to maintain a healthy weight or lifestyle. I certainly have no intentions of following such a plan. I have come too far in my own efforts to want to try a plan that is not a total change to a new way of eating. But I am curious as to Caleb's reasons for the choices he is making, and how he came to make the choices he has. Maybe he comes back here repeatedly because he is learning new approaches each time he comes. I see him as very polite--I haven't seen him trying to force his choices on anyone else. I do hope that he will realize that if he continues with the healthy eating choices he makes in the 100 days, he will be healthier than if he regains and reloses the same weight time after time. But having polite conversations with him does not mean that I am espousing his choices, and I am not certain why it riles up some of the regular posters here. I find that odd. Teachrmama -- I endorse totally what you are saying. I do not want to regain the weight and I sure hope I don't. But I am learning new techniques each time I try this. Rather like stepping into the same stream twice -- things change. Good. I'm glad to hear that. For me, I have found that extremely low calorie approaches lead only to overindulgence when I do begin to eat "normally" again. So the approach I have chosen is to eat the way I want to eat for the rest of my life, and to exercise the way I want to exercise for the rest of my life. Then I never have to go "off a diet." I'm set. And can make minor adjustments here and there as needed. I do hope you have chosen an approach this time that will become a lifestyle rather than just a diet. =c) |
#49
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
teachrmama wrote:
I'm just not clear on why you think that gives you the right to tell me I shouldn't talk to him either. Talk to him all you want - in the group that he set up for talking about it. Is it really all that hard to understand? |
#50
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Invitation to discuss low-calorie approaches to weight-loss on alt.support.diet.low-calorie
"Caleb" wrote in message ups.com... On Feb 4, 11:01 am, "teachrmama" wrote: "Caleb" wrote in message ups.com... snip I do not write these posts to irritate you or anyone else but to support those going on their difficult journey. I'd be happy to discuss any aspect of my approach to weight loss with anyone who is asking a serious question. This topic is too important to shut out voices that may be helpful. You're right about the fact that losing weight is not that difficult, Caleb. It really isn't. That's why some of these weight loss companies are thriving. They depend on people eating their prepackaged, low calorie meals--and the pounds fly off. It isn't the losing that is the difficult part of the proposition--it's keeping the weight off. That is the part of your plan that I have not seen you talk about yet. I would be interested in knowing how you plan to maintain your weight loss once you reach your goal. For me, I am still in the process of losing weight, but I know that once I get to goal, I will need to continue to keep watch on how much I eat, and will need to continue with my physical activities to maintain my weight. There is no option to go back to the way I ate before. Teachrmama - I agree with you about this weight-loss thing. There are two aspects to it, I think: 1. Weight loss, and 2. Weight loss management. I think I'm pretty good at systematic weigh loss now. I used to be fairly good at maintenance but then I hurt my back and required surgery. Before then I would run long distances, probably completed 10 marathons, etc. With the removal of disk L5-S1, my jogging days were over. And so in 1999 my weight reached 272 pounds (I think). And it hit me on a trip to my physician that if I were good for the next hundred days, I would be a hell of a lot healthier. (The trip to the doc was about my 23rd wedding anniversary.) I also realized that 100 days from that point would take me to the day before Thanksgiving. I penciled it out, realized what I had to do, and I did it. I lost about 50 pounds in that time. I've done that several times since then. I haven't been as good at weight loss management. My plans now are to take my scale downstairs after I reach 200 pounds and weigh myself every night before dinner. And if I go over a five pound limit (such as 205), to immediately return to a vigorous weight loss regimen. (You can take a look at the "hacker's diet" on Wikipedia for one successful approach to this conundrum.) I too have to cut down the calories. Also I know that I can't do the kind of heavy exercise I used to do, although I did just come back from three and a half hours of heavy snowshoeing and I feel great! Seems to me that if I had a neighbor who was a skilled plumber but a lousy gardener, I probably would ask about plumbing matters, such as repairing a leaking faucet. And so would a lot of other people who wanted faucets that don't drip. (There is a great quote I remember from grad school: "If a society prizes philosophy above plumbing, we're going to have pipes that leak and ideas that don't hold water!" Seems to me that if we emphasize generalities and denigrate specific methods, we will employ a lot fewer successful methods.) Wow. I'm sorry to hear about the back problems. Have you consulted an expert in the area of exercise (or physical therapy) to find out what form of exercise would be one you could follow regularly in spite of your injury? I know you realize that physical activity is very important in maintaining a healthy body. Have you come up with a specific plan for maintenance, other than your 5 pound rule? Such as what foods you will eat in moderation, and which you will eat rarely, etc. I know that being careful what foods I keep in the house helps me a lot. And my teenage daughters are forming some very good habits, too. Hopefully they will never have to lose weight--they will have formed the habits that will help them maintain the proper weight, including both eating and exercise choices. |
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