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Can a low-carb diet fail if you take in too many calories?



 
 
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  #81  
Old August 13th, 2004, 02:43 PM
Hannah Gruen
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"DJ Delorie" wrote in message
...

Elevated ASP can also activate insulin release from the pancreas.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...ead.php?t=2689


Good thread, thanks. This answers a question I posted for Doug Freyburger
yesterday. It looks like fat intake does stimulate insulin release to some
extent, via ASP. Although ASP is also influenced by insulin. I wonder how
much these factors are influenced by diet macronutrient composition and/or
hypocaloric vs. hypercaloric intake.

Anyway, I liked the simple (simplistic but not necessarily untrue) answer:
fat makes fat... lol. Good forum, I wasn't aware of it and will have to
check in there again.

HG


  #82  
Old August 13th, 2004, 02:52 PM
Hannah Gruen
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Default Can a low-carb diet fail if you take in too many calories?

"Ignoramus14701" wrote

I am amazed just how much we can discuss without actually bringing in
evidence (like science articles from medline).

I think that the question is excellent and the answer is far from
obvious and needs to be ascertained via a study.

It seems fairly clear that low carbers can get away with eating more
calories than low fatters. Just how far this goes is not clear.


Well, in this case each person is going to be different. YMMV holds. While
many studies seem to have demonstrated that people eating a low carb diet
can get away with eating more calories to lose weight than can the people
eating the lowish-fat higher carbohydrate diets, there are still a looooooot
of variables to sort out in those studies. Which means that I don't recall
seeing much of anything that appeared to give the definitive answer to this
question.

Obviously it's possible to eat too many calories to allow weight loss on LC,
regardless of macronutrient proportions. Too much anecdotal evidence, and
also almost everyone, especially women, needs to pay attention to calories
in the latter part of their weight loss, as they get closer to goal. My take
on this is that if you're low-carbing and generally understanding and
following the instructions, not eating a bunch of processed low-carb crap
foods, and you're not losing weight over a period of several weeks, you're
probably going to have to count and limit calories and/or exercise more.

HG


  #83  
Old August 13th, 2004, 02:52 PM
Hannah Gruen
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"Ignoramus14701" wrote

I am amazed just how much we can discuss without actually bringing in
evidence (like science articles from medline).

I think that the question is excellent and the answer is far from
obvious and needs to be ascertained via a study.

It seems fairly clear that low carbers can get away with eating more
calories than low fatters. Just how far this goes is not clear.


Well, in this case each person is going to be different. YMMV holds. While
many studies seem to have demonstrated that people eating a low carb diet
can get away with eating more calories to lose weight than can the people
eating the lowish-fat higher carbohydrate diets, there are still a looooooot
of variables to sort out in those studies. Which means that I don't recall
seeing much of anything that appeared to give the definitive answer to this
question.

Obviously it's possible to eat too many calories to allow weight loss on LC,
regardless of macronutrient proportions. Too much anecdotal evidence, and
also almost everyone, especially women, needs to pay attention to calories
in the latter part of their weight loss, as they get closer to goal. My take
on this is that if you're low-carbing and generally understanding and
following the instructions, not eating a bunch of processed low-carb crap
foods, and you're not losing weight over a period of several weeks, you're
probably going to have to count and limit calories and/or exercise more.

HG


  #84  
Old August 13th, 2004, 02:59 PM
Hannah Gruen
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Default Can a low-carb diet fail if you take in too many calories?

"jamie" wrote

In persons capable of producing insulin (not Type I diabetics), there
are feedback mechanisms to prevent blood ketone levels going too high
and causing ketoacidosis. The body slows or stops metabolizing fats,
and releases insulin to use glucose (if not from carb, then from
gluconeogenesis breakdown of proteins).


Thanks, Jamie. I think in the context of the thread what Doug may also have
been getting at was the role of Acylation stimulation protein (ASP). DJ
provided a link to:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...ead.php?t=2689

which I found pretty interesting. I guess either or both could apply,
depending on the usual other variables.

HG


  #85  
Old August 13th, 2004, 02:59 PM
Hannah Gruen
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Default

"jamie" wrote

In persons capable of producing insulin (not Type I diabetics), there
are feedback mechanisms to prevent blood ketone levels going too high
and causing ketoacidosis. The body slows or stops metabolizing fats,
and releases insulin to use glucose (if not from carb, then from
gluconeogenesis breakdown of proteins).


Thanks, Jamie. I think in the context of the thread what Doug may also have
been getting at was the role of Acylation stimulation protein (ASP). DJ
provided a link to:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...ead.php?t=2689

which I found pretty interesting. I guess either or both could apply,
depending on the usual other variables.

HG


  #86  
Old August 13th, 2004, 03:00 PM
DJ Delorie
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Posts: n/a
Default Can a low-carb diet fail if you take in too many calories?


"Hannah Gruen" writes:
Anyway, I liked the simple (simplistic but not necessarily untrue)
answer: fat makes fat... lol.


I like to say "fat can store itself just fine thankyouverymuch."

Good forum, I wasn't aware of it and will have to check in there
again.


Set your skin to maximum thickness first ;-)
  #87  
Old August 13th, 2004, 03:00 PM
DJ Delorie
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Default


"Hannah Gruen" writes:
Anyway, I liked the simple (simplistic but not necessarily untrue)
answer: fat makes fat... lol.


I like to say "fat can store itself just fine thankyouverymuch."

Good forum, I wasn't aware of it and will have to check in there
again.


Set your skin to maximum thickness first ;-)
  #88  
Old August 13th, 2004, 03:23 PM
Doug Freyburger
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Default Can a low-carb diet fail if you take in too many calories?

jamie wrote:
Hannah Gruen wrote:

And the body's releasing insulin takes you out of ketosis....
how? Could you provide some kind of backup on this please?


Ketosis is driven by the hormone glucagon. More glucagon in the
blood, more fat withdrawn from storage. Glucagon is released in
indirect response to dietary fat through a feedback loop using
changing levels of adreniline in the blood. Ketosis is indirectly
suppressed by the hormone insulin. Insulin in the blood suppresses
glucagon release. More insulin in the blood, less glucagon in
the blood, less fat withdrawn from storage.

In persons capable of producing insulin (not Type I diabetics), there
are feedback mechanisms to prevent blood ketone levels going too high
and causing ketoacidosis. The body slows or stops metabolizing fats,
and releases insulin to use glucose (if not from carb, then from
gluconeogenesis breakdown of proteins).


That's the key. Dietary carbs directly trigger insulin release.
A large excess of dietary fat will also trigger insulin release.

Switch from eating little fat to eating plenty and you are likely
to have more glucagon in your blood and withdraw more fat from
storage. Go too fat and over eat getting far too much fat and
you will release insulin and stop the withdrawal of stored fat.

Have you noticed folks worrying about eating enough dietary fat
to burn that instead of stored fat? It happens, just at higher
fat intake levels than most expect. That's along the transition
to massive over eating of fat that knocks you out of ketosis.
  #89  
Old August 13th, 2004, 03:23 PM
Doug Freyburger
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Default

jamie wrote:
Hannah Gruen wrote:

And the body's releasing insulin takes you out of ketosis....
how? Could you provide some kind of backup on this please?


Ketosis is driven by the hormone glucagon. More glucagon in the
blood, more fat withdrawn from storage. Glucagon is released in
indirect response to dietary fat through a feedback loop using
changing levels of adreniline in the blood. Ketosis is indirectly
suppressed by the hormone insulin. Insulin in the blood suppresses
glucagon release. More insulin in the blood, less glucagon in
the blood, less fat withdrawn from storage.

In persons capable of producing insulin (not Type I diabetics), there
are feedback mechanisms to prevent blood ketone levels going too high
and causing ketoacidosis. The body slows or stops metabolizing fats,
and releases insulin to use glucose (if not from carb, then from
gluconeogenesis breakdown of proteins).


That's the key. Dietary carbs directly trigger insulin release.
A large excess of dietary fat will also trigger insulin release.

Switch from eating little fat to eating plenty and you are likely
to have more glucagon in your blood and withdraw more fat from
storage. Go too fat and over eat getting far too much fat and
you will release insulin and stop the withdrawal of stored fat.

Have you noticed folks worrying about eating enough dietary fat
to burn that instead of stored fat? It happens, just at higher
fat intake levels than most expect. That's along the transition
to massive over eating of fat that knocks you out of ketosis.
  #90  
Old August 13th, 2004, 04:45 PM
billydee
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Default

"marengo" wrote in message ...
The Voice of Reason wrote:

snip
A high
| protein intake and resistance exercise is crucial to any plan to lose
| fat.


Sorry, but you are incorrect. This is your own theory and should not be
presented as fact.

I have a disability and get very little exercise. I do not eat high amounts
of protein; only about the same amount as before low. carb. I've lost 60
pounds so far, mostly fat as evidenced by my pictures. My own weight loss
is proof that you're wrong.

Peter
270/213/180
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/wei...htlosspix.html


looks to me like you can make that statement after you are 35 pounds
lighter. I'm guessing you'll stall pretty quick using the
all-you-can-eat diet plan.
 




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