Obesity as unhealthy as heart failure

On 7 Dec 2004 03:17:03 -0000, Gandolf Parker
wrote:

On 6 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

Yes, fitness is important, and a lot of fat people are unfit.
However, multiple studies show that people can be fat and fit, and that
those people are generally as healthy as thinner people, more healthy
than
non-fit thinner people.

This very long term study of thousands of men and women demonstrates that
thin-unfit women have a lower mortality rate than allegedly fit-fat
women.

Am J Epidemiol 2002 Nov 1;156(9):832-41
Fitness and fatness as predictors of mortality from all causes and from
cardiovascular disease in men and women in the lipid research clinics
study.
Stevens J, Cai J, Evenson KR, Thomas R.
Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health, University of North
Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599, USA.


The relative size of the effects of fitness and fatness on longevity has
been studied in only one cohort. The authors examined this issue using
data
from 2,506 women and 2,860 men in the Lipid Research Clinics Study. The
mean age was 46.6 years in women and 45.1 years in men at baseline
(1972-1976). Fitness was assessed using a treadmill test, and fatness was
assessed as body mass index calculated from measured height and weight.
Participants were followed for vital status through 1998. Hazard ratios
were calculated using proportional hazard models that included covariates
for age, education, smoking, alcohol intake, and the dietary Keys score.
Fitness and fatness were both associated with mortality from all causes
and
from cardiovascular disease. For mortality from all causes, the adjusted
hazard ratios were 1.32 among the fit-fat, 1.30 among the unfit-not fat,
and 1.57 among the unfit-fat women compared with fit-not fat women. Among
men the same hazard ratios were 1.44, 1.25, and 1.49. There were no
significant interactions between fitness and fatness in either men or
women. The authors conclude that both fitness and fatness are risk
factors
for mortality, and that being fit does not completely reverse the
increased
risk associated with excess adiposity.

Where are your cites?





Why didn't they study the fit-not fat? At least that would be helpful.

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On 9 Dec 2004 03:21:46 -0000, s
(Gandolf Parker) wrote:

On 8 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

In article ,
On 6 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

Yes, fitness is important, and a lot of fat people are unfit.
However, multiple studies show that people can be fat and fit,
and that those people are generally as healthy as thinner
people, more healthy than non-fit thinner people.

This very long term study of thousands of men and women
demonstrates that thin-unfit women have a lower mortality rate
than allegedly fit-fat women.

16 to 12 years is decent, yeah. I've seen 30 years or more, which
is probbaly better, especially since the average subject was still
in an age in whcih not many people are dying, so a few deaths can
make
percentages seem much more significant than they are. (Campos makes
this point very well, with numbers from actual studies.)
I have to say the abstract confuses me. Did they count actual
deaths, or just deaths predicted by how people scored on the hazard
ratios?

Are you providing us with another stellar example of intellectual
sloth, or are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts? Re-read
the abstract and try responding to the actual facts presented.

Is this another example of you allegedly kicking my butt? LOL!

Gee, sounds like syphilis, doesn't it?


LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"Be who you are and say what
you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."

- --Unknown
- -------------------------------


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On 9 Dec 2004 03:21:46 -0000, s
(Gandolf Parker) wrote:

On 8 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

In article ,
On 6 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

Yes, fitness is important, and a lot of fat people are unfit.
However, multiple studies show that people can be fat and fit,
and that those people are generally as healthy as thinner
people, more healthy than non-fit thinner people.

This very long term study of thousands of men and women
demonstrates that thin-unfit women have a lower mortality rate
than allegedly fit-fat women.

16 to 12 years is decent, yeah. I've seen 30 years or more, which
is probbaly better, especially since the average subject was still
in an age in whcih not many people are dying, so a few deaths can
make
percentages seem much more significant than they are. (Campos makes
this point very well, with numbers from actual studies.)
I have to say the abstract confuses me. Did they count actual
deaths, or just deaths predicted by how people scored on the hazard
ratios?

Are you providing us with another stellar example of intellectual
sloth, or are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts? Re-read
the abstract and try responding to the actual facts presented.

Is this another example of you allegedly kicking my butt? LOL!

Gee, sounds like syphilis, doesn't it?


LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"Be who you are and say what
you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."

- --Unknown
- -------------------------------


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"Lady Veteran" wrote in message
news
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Hash: SHA1

On 9 Dec 2004 03:21:46 -0000, s
(Gandolf Parker) wrote:

On 8 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

In article ,
On 6 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

Yes, fitness is important, and a lot of fat people are unfit.
However, multiple studies show that people can be fat and fit,
and that those people are generally as healthy as thinner
people, more healthy than non-fit thinner people.

This very long term study of thousands of men and women
demonstrates that thin-unfit women have a lower mortality rate
than allegedly fit-fat women.

16 to 12 years is decent, yeah. I've seen 30 years or more, which
is probbaly better, especially since the average subject was still
in an age in whcih not many people are dying, so a few deaths can
make
percentages seem much more significant than they are. (Campos makes
this point very well, with numbers from actual studies.)
I have to say the abstract confuses me. Did they count actual
deaths, or just deaths predicted by how people scored on the hazard
ratios?

Are you providing us with another stellar example of intellectual
sloth, or are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts? Re-read
the abstract and try responding to the actual facts presented.

Is this another example of you allegedly kicking my butt? LOL!

Gee, sounds like syphilis, doesn't it?


LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"Be who you are and say what
you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."

- --Unknown
- -------------------------------


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All that crap in your posts overwhelmes whatever you are saying. end
pgp..signature? whats up with that stuff?

Jim

Jim wrote:
"Lady Veteran" wrote in message
news
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Hash: SHA1

On 9 Dec 2004 03:21:46 -0000, s
(Gandolf Parker) wrote:

On 8 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

In article ,
On 6 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

Yes, fitness is important, and a lot of fat people are unfit.
However, multiple studies show that people can be fat and fit,
and that those people are generally as healthy as thinner
people, more healthy than non-fit thinner people.

This very long term study of thousands of men and women
demonstrates that thin-unfit women have a lower mortality rate
than allegedly fit-fat women.

16 to 12 years is decent, yeah. I've seen 30 years or more, which
is probbaly better, especially since the average subject was still
in an age in whcih not many people are dying, so a few deaths can
make
percentages seem much more significant than they are. (Campos makes
this point very well, with numbers from actual studies.)
I have to say the abstract confuses me. Did they count actual
deaths, or just deaths predicted by how people scored on the hazard
ratios?

Are you providing us with another stellar example of intellectual
sloth, or are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts? Re-read
the abstract and try responding to the actual facts presented.

Is this another example of you allegedly kicking my butt? LOL!

Gee, sounds like syphilis, doesn't it?


LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"Be who you are and say what
you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."

- --Unknown
- -------------------------------


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All that crap in your posts overwhelmes whatever you are saying. end
pgp..signature? whats up with that stuff?

Jim

It matches her ass Jim.
--
-Larry

Jim wrote:
"Lady Veteran" wrote in message
news
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 9 Dec 2004 03:21:46 -0000, s
(Gandolf Parker) wrote:

On 8 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

In article ,
On 6 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

Yes, fitness is important, and a lot of fat people are unfit.
However, multiple studies show that people can be fat and fit,
and that those people are generally as healthy as thinner
people, more healthy than non-fit thinner people.

This very long term study of thousands of men and women
demonstrates that thin-unfit women have a lower mortality rate
than allegedly fit-fat women.

16 to 12 years is decent, yeah. I've seen 30 years or more, which
is probbaly better, especially since the average subject was still
in an age in whcih not many people are dying, so a few deaths can
make
percentages seem much more significant than they are. (Campos makes
this point very well, with numbers from actual studies.)
I have to say the abstract confuses me. Did they count actual
deaths, or just deaths predicted by how people scored on the hazard
ratios?

Are you providing us with another stellar example of intellectual
sloth, or are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts? Re-read
the abstract and try responding to the actual facts presented.

Is this another example of you allegedly kicking my butt? LOL!

Gee, sounds like syphilis, doesn't it?


LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"Be who you are and say what
you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."

- --Unknown
- -------------------------------


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All that crap in your posts overwhelmes whatever you are saying. end
pgp..signature? whats up with that stuff?

Jim

It matches her ass Jim.
--
-Larry

Jim wrote:
"Lady Veteran" wrote in message
news
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 9 Dec 2004 03:21:46 -0000, s
(Gandolf Parker) wrote:

On 8 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

In article ,
On 6 Dec 2004, (Bernadette Bosky) wrote:

Yes, fitness is important, and a lot of fat people are unfit.
However, multiple studies show that people can be fat and fit,
and that those people are generally as healthy as thinner
people, more healthy than non-fit thinner people.

This very long term study of thousands of men and women
demonstrates that thin-unfit women have a lower mortality rate
than allegedly fit-fat women.

16 to 12 years is decent, yeah. I've seen 30 years or more, which
is probbaly better, especially since the average subject was still
in an age in whcih not many people are dying, so a few deaths can
make
percentages seem much more significant than they are. (Campos makes
this point very well, with numbers from actual studies.)
I have to say the abstract confuses me. Did they count actual
deaths, or just deaths predicted by how people scored on the hazard
ratios?

Are you providing us with another stellar example of intellectual
sloth, or are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts? Re-read
the abstract and try responding to the actual facts presented.

Is this another example of you allegedly kicking my butt? LOL!

Gee, sounds like syphilis, doesn't it?


LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"Be who you are and say what
you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."

- --Unknown
- -------------------------------


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All that crap in your posts overwhelmes whatever you are saying. end
pgp..signature? whats up with that stuff?

Jim

It matches her ass Jim.
--
-Larry

Jim wrote:

All that crap in your posts overwhelmes whatever you are saying. end
pgp..signature? whats up with that stuff?

Jim

Agreed.....it was totally nonsensical.
Tom