If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
The Bally's adventure
"Beverly" wrote in message ... If the machines are anything like the ones at my gym they don't force you through the moves You have to supply the power and they prevent you from dropping the weights, etc. I do both but prefer the machines when I attempt heavier weights. That's the main reason that I want to stick to the machines. I still have no idea what I'm doing, the trainer had to show me how to lift with each exercise, and the way my hands sweat, I'll most likely end up dropping a 25 pound dumbbell on my face. Damn, I wish these trainers weren't so freakin' expensive. And to think that I used to feel like a pirate when I had to charge $60 for a service call (just to ring the door bell) and another $75/hr labor. Then there's the 300% markup on the parts... |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
"Beverly" wrote in message ... If the machines are anything like the ones at my gym they don't force you through the moves You have to supply the power and they prevent you from dropping the weights, etc. I do both but prefer the machines when I attempt heavier weights. That's the main reason that I want to stick to the machines. I still have no idea what I'm doing, the trainer had to show me how to lift with each exercise, and the way my hands sweat, I'll most likely end up dropping a 25 pound dumbbell on my face. Damn, I wish these trainers weren't so freakin' expensive. And to think that I used to feel like a pirate when I had to charge $60 for a service call (just to ring the door bell) and another $75/hr labor. Then there's the 300% markup on the parts... |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
The Bally's adventure
Dally wrote:
Rob wrote: Lictor wrote: Most serious weight lifters seem to *hate* machines and prefer free weights. Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction. Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do not. This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to injury. All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used to and *rip* something’s hurt. These injuries often happen outside of the gym when doing normal chores or household maintenance. LOL, you make it sound positively DANGEROUS to get too close to a Nautilus machine! Sorry, that was merely to explain one reason “serious weight lifters” use free weights. I didn’t mean to scare people away from Nautilus as a starting point. Perhaps when the settings get heavier, it’s time to move on. Can’t say that I ever did Curves (wrong parts), but I did Life Fitness (Nautilus type) for two years. The switch to free weights quickly showed me how weak my supporting/balance muscles were. I agree with what you said about having to start somewhere. Curves is an easy and private way to start a resistance workout. Several of my female friends started at Curves. None of them still attend as they now like the free weights or exercise classes at the local gyms. Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker rooms. Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more modest than men I guess. Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully, under the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance muscles can re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid injury. Free weights are indeed better. And running a five minute mile is better than running a fifteen minute mile. But you have to start somewhere. In my opinion, Curves is an excellent place for an out-of-shape woman to get an intro to reistance training in a supportive environment. My YMCA has a similar set-up for out-of-shape people called a "personal fitness program" where they've got a special room with curtains so us jocks can't gawk at the fat people. (LOL, I love being one of the jocks instead of the fat people in that sentence!) Anyway, the thing is, you graduate. You go from NOT moving to moving in ways that seem accessible to you then to trying new things. I totally agree that free weights are best - for all the reasons you said - but Nautilus is an accessible step. I did Nautilus for a full eight years before I graduated to free weights. And I doubt I would have moved into free weights if my gym hadn't offered an "Intro to Free Weights" class that turned all the surrealistic furniture into equipment I knew and understood. There was a definite learning curve. Worth it, but not negligible. So - way to go Smokey. This week you took a great step. And you'll keep taking steps over and over again until you've become a slender person! Way to go! Dally |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
The Bally's adventure
"Rob" wrote in message ... Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker rooms. Why does a certain scene from Porky's immediately come to mind? LOL Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more modest than men I guess. It's a lot easier for guys. Don't look around at all, and if you really feel you need to, don't get caught. You can't complain without admitting that you've been peeking. ;-] |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
"Rob" wrote in message ... Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker rooms. Why does a certain scene from Porky's immediately come to mind? LOL Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more modest than men I guess. It's a lot easier for guys. Don't look around at all, and if you really feel you need to, don't get caught. You can't complain without admitting that you've been peeking. ;-] |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
The Bally's adventure
NeoSmokey wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message ... Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker rooms. Why does a certain scene from Porky's immediately come to mind? LOL Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more modest than men I guess. It's a lot easier for guys. Don't look around at all, and if you really feel you need to, don't get caught. You can't complain without admitting that you've been peeking. ;-] Peeking? Like the guys wearing thier glasses in a gang shower? What's up with THAT? |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
The Bally's adventure
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:15 -0400, Rob wrote:
Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction. Muscles pull levers around joint axis. Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do not. Nope. This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to injury. Are you a PT? All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used to and *rip* somethingÿs hurt. These injuries often happen outside of the gym when doing normal chores or household maintenance. ´Seems light.¡, ´Push or pull a lot more than this at the gym¡ one little movement outside what the muscle is used to and *ouch*. lol Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully, under the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance muscles can re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid injury. What a load of crap. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:15 -0400, Rob wrote:
Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction. Muscles pull levers around joint axis. Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do not. Nope. This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to injury. Are you a PT? All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used to and *rip* somethingÿs hurt. These injuries often happen outside of the gym when doing normal chores or household maintenance. ´Seems light.¡, ´Push or pull a lot more than this at the gym¡ one little movement outside what the muscle is used to and *ouch*. lol Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully, under the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance muscles can re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid injury. What a load of crap. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
The Bally's adventure
MU wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:15 -0400, Rob wrote: Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction. Muscles pull levers around joint axis. Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do not. Nope. This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to injury. Are you a PT? All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used to and *rip* somethingÿs hurt. These injuries often happen outside of the gym when doing normal chores or household maintenance. ´Seems light.¡, ´Push or pull a lot more than this at the gym¡ one little movement outside what the muscle is used to and *ouch*. lol Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully, under the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance muscles can re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid injury. What a load of crap. Nope, not a physical trainer, but ask them plenty of questions while I frequent the gym. I started on Circuit type machines, moved to free weights, took a big step backwards for safety and finally got my weight numbers back to where they were on the Nautilus type machines. Apparently I didnÿt describe the balance concept well enough. A typical Flat Bench Press machine offers resistance in a vertical push direction. It allows motion up and down to accomplish the repetitions. It does not allow movement on any horizontal axis because the mechanical coupling or hinge restricts it. It can only move up or down. Using a typical Free Weight bench and barbell, the weight is still supposed to move up and down but there is nothing preventing it from shifting left, right, forward or backward. This is the ´balance¡ that requires supporting muscles I was trying to describe. Supporting muscles must keep the weight from going any direction but up and down. Itÿs fairly impossible to move a Flat Bench Press machine left, right, forward or backward without physically damaging the machine. A typical Forearm Curl machine offers resistance in rotating pulling motion. During this rotation the wrists are usually held steady on a handle bar. Swap this exercise with a Free Weight type dumbbells and the wrist rotation support is gone. This makes a large difference in the muscle used. As an example, lift an object palm up. Now lift that same object thumb up. Notice the change in the forearm muscles used? If you didnÿt, try wrapping your opposite hand around the lifting forearm. Now repeat the exercise again. Feel a difference. The dumbbell exercise must focus on either of the muscles since wrist rotation could happen at any time during the lift. Move the dumbbells to the above mentioned bench press exercise and it adds wrist rotation to the before mentioned horizontal axis issues. Dumbbells require more balance strength than barbells. Barbells require more balance strength than Circuit machines. Of course all Circuit type machines are not created equal and somebody undoubtedly will let me know of one that functions just like dumbbells. This was a general explanation as to why free weights are preferred over Circuit machines for heavy lifting. I hope this helped. |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:28:46 -0400, Rob wrote:
Nope, not a physical trainer, but ask them plenty of questions while I frequent the gym. You just made two mistakes; asking then believing. Apparently I didnÿt describe the balance concept well enough. I have no idea what that is. A typical Flat Bench Press machine offers resistance in a vertical push direction. It allows motion up and down to accomplish the repetitions. No, except for machine created friction, gravity is the resistance in a f=ma mode. It does not allow movement on any horizontal axis because the mechanical coupling or hinge restricts it. It can only move up or down. Using a typical Free Weight bench and barbell, the weight is still supposed to move up and down but there is nothing preventing it from shifting left, right, forward or backward. This is the ´balance¡ that requires supporting muscles I was trying to describe. Which "supporting muscles" do you mean? Name a "supporting muscle" and tell me how it supports. Supporting muscles must keep the weight from going any direction but up and down. Itÿs fairly impossible to move a Flat Bench Press machine left, right, forward or backward without physically damaging the machine. Then a "J" hook bench lift is one where these supporting muscles are checking in and out? A typical Forearm Curl machine offers resistance in rotating pulling motion. During this rotation the wrists are usually held steady on a handle bar. Swap this exercise with a Free Weight type dumbbells and the wrist rotation support is gone. This makes a large difference in the muscle used. As an example, lift an object palm up. Now lift that same object thumb up. Notice the change in the forearm muscles used? Any change of joint axis in relation to its original positioning will require the firing of different muscle groups to complete an action. This is a dynamic and also changes without a joint axis change as momentum and other physical forces come into play. INO, any human motion is a result of a complex seies of neuromuscular events that can be graphed over time to show a myriad of muscular activities. evr changing, moment ot moment within the same lift. If you didnÿt, try wrapping your opposite hand around the lifting forearm. Now repeat the exercise again. Feel a difference. The dumbbell exercise must focus on either of the muscles since wrist rotation could happen at any time during the lift. Ok, all well and good but the same muscles that you claim are prevented from palm supination/pronation don't simply lie down dead when the wrist is locked. Move the dumbbells to the above mentioned bench press exercise and it adds wrist rotation to the before mentioned horizontal axis issues. Dumbbells require more balance strength than barbells. There are many strengths defined in sports science. Balance strength is not one of them. Barbells require more balance strength than Circuit machines. Of course all Circuit type machines are not created equal and somebody undoubtedly will let me know of one that functions just like dumbbells. Not if the machine is attached to the load being functioned upon.Free is free' not free is not free. This was a general explanation as to why free weights are preferred over Circuit machines for heavy lifting. I don't know that they are. I don't know exactly what a circuit machine is but ime I have seen heavy lifters spend as much time on various machines as free weights especially if the final outcome is hypertrophy cosmetics. And why not? Machines load faster, are more easily changed, rarely require "spotting" or assistance. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
My "American" adventure | curious | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 7 | June 22nd, 2004 06:55 PM |
The Santa Fe Adventure (kinda of long) | That T Woman | General Discussion | 2 | March 20th, 2004 10:32 PM |
A new weightloss adventure | Cox SMTP east | General Discussion | 9 | February 24th, 2004 03:42 PM |
OWL and the next adventure... | Patricia | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 14 | November 8th, 2003 08:10 AM |