phases of atkins

I have experienced 3 distinctive phases of my diet, the first week where I
lost one pound a day, the next several months, where I lost about 1.5 pounds
per week, and then finally the last 2 months, where, as I approached and
reached the weight set as target by my doctor (but still 5 pounds above what
my goal which he says is ok) where my weight loss is less than half a pound
a week (if i wasn't tracking it carefully, I would view myself as stalled.

Now of course, this fits nicely with the three phases of atkins, induction,
ongoing weight loss and maintenance. The only problem is that this does not
match what I actually did. The pound a day for a week did not reflect one
week of induction, as I was on induction, very strictly for the first 19
pounds, which took several months. The 1-2 pounds a week loss continued even
after I went off induction, and my weight loss began slowing down as I
approached my doctor's target weight, even though I changed nothing, since i
amaiming for five pounds below.

All this has me wondering if the three phases of atkins are artificial
constructs that are build to match an underlying weight loss pattern caused
by the drastic reduction of carbs in the overweight person. I wonder if
simply reducing the carbs in quick but not so drastic way as induction, and
holding it there would produce approximately the same effect overall, and if
the three phases are like salt over the shoulder, our attempt to feel in
control of a natural process. Thoughts?

Bob 197(+)/166/160

induction is a "kill you carb addiction" phase- it's a way to "train" your
metabolism to start living off the stored fat rather then too much sugar.
it's also a phase dedicated to showing you that all that you've ever learned
about proper nutrition is pretty much dead wrong. the fast weight loss of
induction definitely shows you that you are on the right track.

another point to consider is that everyone's metabolism reacts differently-
a person with a slow metabolism might only lose a pound a month on OWL- or
maybe even only a pound a week on induction. I think Atkins weighed the
differences and knew that a two week fast success would encourage the
commitment to keep going. I think he was a brilliant man.

--
Cheers,
Paul

All of my webpages can all be found at:
3D Animation World: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pmccullough/

Latin phrase to live by: "Illegitimis nil carborundum"



"bob" wrote in message
...
I have experienced 3 distinctive phases of my diet, the first week where I
lost one pound a day, the next several months, where I lost about 1.5
pounds
per week, and then finally the last 2 months, where, as I approached and
reached the weight set as target by my doctor (but still 5 pounds above
what
my goal which he says is ok) where my weight loss is less than half a
pound
a week (if i wasn't tracking it carefully, I would view myself as stalled.

Now of course, this fits nicely with the three phases of atkins,
induction,
ongoing weight loss and maintenance. The only problem is that this does
not
match what I actually did. The pound a day for a week did not reflect one
week of induction, as I was on induction, very strictly for the first 19
pounds, which took several months. The 1-2 pounds a week loss continued
even
after I went off induction, and my weight loss began slowing down as I
approached my doctor's target weight, even though I changed nothing, since
i
amaiming for five pounds below.

All this has me wondering if the three phases of atkins are artificial
constructs that are build to match an underlying weight loss pattern
caused
by the drastic reduction of carbs in the overweight person. I wonder if
simply reducing the carbs in quick but not so drastic way as induction,
and
holding it there would produce approximately the same effect overall, and
if
the three phases are like salt over the shoulder, our attempt to feel in
control of a natural process. Thoughts?

Bob 197(+)/166/160

"bob" wrote in
:

I have experienced 3 distinctive phases of my diet, the first week
where I lost one pound a day, the next several months, where I lost
about 1.5 pounds per week, and then finally the last 2 months, where,
as I approached and reached the weight set as target by my doctor (but
still 5 pounds above what my goal which he says is ok) where my weight
loss is less than half a pound a week (if i wasn't tracking it
carefully, I would view myself as stalled.

Now of course, this fits nicely with the three phases of atkins,
induction, ongoing weight loss and maintenance. The only problem is
that this does not match what I actually did. The pound a day for a
week did not reflect one week of induction, as I was on induction,
very strictly for the first 19 pounds, which took several months. The
1-2 pounds a week loss continued even after I went off induction, and
my weight loss began slowing down as I approached my doctor's target
weight, even though I changed nothing, since i amaiming for five
pounds below.

All this has me wondering if the three phases of atkins are artificial
constructs that are build to match an underlying weight loss pattern
caused by the drastic reduction of carbs in the overweight person. I
wonder if simply reducing the carbs in quick but not so drastic way as
induction, and holding it there would produce approximately the same
effect overall, and if the three phases are like salt over the
shoulder, our attempt to feel in control of a natural process.
Thoughts?

Bob 197(+)/166/160

The phases of Atkins are designed to teach a person how to eat properly and
maintain the loss. Atkins says in his book that many weightloss plans
simply don't teach a person how to keep the weight off and places emphasis
only on losing weight. This is why he shows you how to find your CCLM and
CCLL in a gradual manner. It's also a great WOE to find any food
intolerances... one of the reasons that foods are added back slowly.

The slower loss is normal once a person is closer to goal. This is typical
whether LC or not.

~miette

Bob,

Back when I was younger and had a much healtheir metabolism, I could lose
significant amounts of weight just by cutting out dessert, bread and
potatoes for a month or two. In fact, that's how I maintained my weight in
the normal range for over 20 years. I know lots of men who can lose weight
just by cutting out dessert or their daily sodas! It is not necessary to cut
carbs to a ketosis inducing level to lose weight for normal people. However,
most of us here aren't normal, metabolically. For us cutting carbs much more
extremely may be all that works. That's because most of us are
severely insulin resistant.

I always advise people who don't have insulin resistance to start with a
less restrictive diet--cutting out junk carbs and learning the calorie value
of the foods they eat. I'd advise them to only cut carbs more intensely if
that doesn't work. For many people it does. Once they learn that their
morning muffin or bagel has the same amount of calories as two
cheeseburgers, they can start making much better food decisions and for
people with healthy metabolisms, this is often all it takes.

I suspect that the metabolic changes made by spending long times in ketosis
may make it easier to regain the weight once you up your carbs to even 1/2
of normal, because the body has "learned something new" metabolically. The
fact that the second time most people do an Atkins style diet after having
done one long term they do not experience the rapid weight loss at the
outset (once the water is flushed out) would support this. So would the
fact that all too many people use Atkins to lose the weight and then gain it
all back at dizzying speed if they go back to eating a balanced diet--even
if their calories are not excessive. Partly the problem here is that an
Atkins-type diet teaches you to eat a lot of fats, and people who go off the
diet tend (in my observation) to continue to eat those fats in conjunction
with the carbs that turn them back into body fat. It only takes a carb load
of slightly over 100 gm a day to do this!



-- Jenny

Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?


"bob" wrote in message
...
I have experienced 3 distinctive phases of my diet, the first week where I
lost one pound a day, the next several months, where I lost about 1.5
pounds
per week, and then finally the last 2 months, where, as I approached and
reached the weight set as target by my doctor (but still 5 pounds above
what
my goal which he says is ok) where my weight loss is less than half a
pound
a week (if i wasn't tracking it carefully, I would view myself as stalled.

Now of course, this fits nicely with the three phases of atkins,
induction,
ongoing weight loss and maintenance. The only problem is that this does
not
match what I actually did. The pound a day for a week did not reflect one
week of induction, as I was on induction, very strictly for the first 19
pounds, which took several months. The 1-2 pounds a week loss continued
even
after I went off induction, and my weight loss began slowing down as I
approached my doctor's target weight, even though I changed nothing, since
i
amaiming for five pounds below.

All this has me wondering if the three phases of atkins are artificial
constructs that are build to match an underlying weight loss pattern
caused
by the drastic reduction of carbs in the overweight person. I wonder if
simply reducing the carbs in quick but not so drastic way as induction,
and
holding it there would produce approximately the same effect overall, and
if
the three phases are like salt over the shoulder, our attempt to feel in
control of a natural process. Thoughts?

Bob 197(+)/166/160

bob wrote:

All this has me wondering if the three phases of atkins are artificial
constructs that are build to match an underlying weight loss pattern caused
by the drastic reduction of carbs in the overweight person.

You're making a logical falacy:

Bob didn't follow the core plan but Bob got the same pattern of results
as described in the core plan. Therefore if everyone does what Bob did,
everyone will get the same results.

Simply put, just because it worked that way for you doesn't mean it will
work that way for a lot of people. *Many* stall after Induction if they
stay low. Just read this newsgroup for a few weeks and you won't find a
3-day period at any time lacking someone who stayed low complaining of a
stall. Some *have* to follow the core plan to lose. Also, some who lose
okay at 20 lose even better at higher carb levels.

I wonder if
simply reducing the carbs in quick but not so drastic way as induction, and
holding it there would produce approximately the same effect overall, and if
the three phases are like salt over the shoulder, our attempt to feel in
control of a natural process. Thoughts?

The main point of Atkins is this: Each person has a carb level that is
the best for them. You can guess all you like but folks guess wrong. So
Atkins OWL phase is a specific process to find it. Some lose okay lower,
some don't. Either you guessed right or you're one of those who lose
oaky lower.

As to your early loss rate, yes. Cut the carbs enough and that will happen.
The body stores carbs as glycogen, and glycogen comes dissolved in water.
Burn the stored carbs, drop the dissolving water. It isn't anywhere near
linear like you depicted it. During Induction wild water swings are more
common than a steady drop. But the end result is a lot of non-fat-pounds
dropping very fast, plus some amount of fat that's difficult to tell.

As to the last ten pounds, very much yes. It's super hard to lose the
last 10 pounds no matter what you do, so Dr Atkins devised a system where
you *expect* to lose one per month in the last year. Unfortunately he
wrote it implying that it's what you do in the premaintenance phase that
causes the loss rate to drop to one per month. Not so. Premaintenance
is busy-work to distract you from the fact that the loss slowed naturally.
Of course, premaintenance is more than just busy-work since it teaches you
your CCLM.

So you're right in two of the three ways, and not in the middle phase.

Thanks for the comments, I should clarify that I was not challenging any
core assumptions of atkins, nor was I proposing that everyone should do
atkins the way i did. I was only wondering out loud whether the phases of
the diet are explicitly thought out ideas reflecting metabolic models, or as
some of the responses suggest, more educational concepts designed to allow
the dieter to explore/learn a new way of eating in a structured way.

I have been very pleased with Atkins, as my weight loss indicates. I have
observed though, that there is a lot of uncertainty,
contradictory/conflicting advice in this group and elsewhere on subjects
from aspertame, coffee, pork, extended induction, cheating effects, weight
rebound and other subjects. People not only seem to believe different
things, but explain them using different assumptions and definitions. For
instance, on the subject of whether weight would be regained if one went
back on a regular diet with restricted calories I have heard the following
answers:
1) No
2) Yes
3) Yes, because everyone cheats when they go back (vioating the assumption
built into the question)
4) yes because people usually retain the fat in their diet when they add
back the carbs. Exactly how they do this and keep the calories the same is
not explained.
5) Some people do some people don't

As I have observed in this forum before, Atkins has existed for a long time
in the scientific wilderness, excluded from serious consideration and study
by a highly hostile and resistant nutritional community unwilling to own up
to their failures. This has, it seems to me, created a body of knowledge
around atkins that is highly varied in reliability and certainty.

We can only hope that now that the first studies coming in positive on
Atkins, that more detailed studies will begin mapping out what has been
accepted on faith, guessed at or assumed to be true.

Bob
197+/165/160

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
om...
bob wrote:

All this has me wondering if the three phases of atkins are artificial
constructs that are build to match an underlying weight loss pattern
caused
by the drastic reduction of carbs in the overweight person.

You're making a logical falacy:

Bob didn't follow the core plan but Bob got the same pattern of results
as described in the core plan. Therefore if everyone does what Bob did,
everyone will get the same results.

Simply put, just because it worked that way for you doesn't mean it will
work that way for a lot of people. *Many* stall after Induction if they
stay low. Just read this newsgroup for a few weeks and you won't find a
3-day period at any time lacking someone who stayed low complaining of a
stall. Some *have* to follow the core plan to lose. Also, some who lose
okay at 20 lose even better at higher carb levels.

I wonder if
simply reducing the carbs in quick but not so drastic way as induction,
and
holding it there would produce approximately the same effect overall,
and if
the three phases are like salt over the shoulder, our attempt to feel in
control of a natural process. Thoughts?

The main point of Atkins is this: Each person has a carb level that is
the best for them. You can guess all you like but folks guess wrong. So
Atkins OWL phase is a specific process to find it. Some lose okay lower,
some don't. Either you guessed right or you're one of those who lose
oaky lower.

As to your early loss rate, yes. Cut the carbs enough and that will
happen.
The body stores carbs as glycogen, and glycogen comes dissolved in water.
Burn the stored carbs, drop the dissolving water. It isn't anywhere near
linear like you depicted it. During Induction wild water swings are more
common than a steady drop. But the end result is a lot of non-fat-pounds
dropping very fast, plus some amount of fat that's difficult to tell.

As to the last ten pounds, very much yes. It's super hard to lose the
last 10 pounds no matter what you do, so Dr Atkins devised a system where
you *expect* to lose one per month in the last year. Unfortunately he
wrote it implying that it's what you do in the premaintenance phase that
causes the loss rate to drop to one per month. Not so. Premaintenance
is busy-work to distract you from the fact that the loss slowed naturally.
Of course, premaintenance is more than just busy-work since it teaches you
your CCLM.

So you're right in two of the three ways, and not in the middle phase.