Well I am most certainly on top this week

thanks. we need it

"Miss Violette" wrote in message
...
I will pray for both of you Lee
Lesanne wrote in message
...
I tell her I love her every day. And yeah.

"Laura" wrote in message
...
Sorry to hear about your mother. Hang in there. You'll figure out what
is
best for her. Let her know you love her and that you are there for
her.
God
will figure it out for you. He always does.

"Lesanne" wrote in message
...
WW ranges are pretty much based upon normal BMI ranges.

I was back to journaling, and getting things sort of under control,
but
yesterday went hog wild. If I had to say why, it was a combo of
actual
hunger, and I think the stresses around here lately. There is more
going
on
than just school. I have daughter problems, and Mom is also showing
some
signs that may be heart failure.

My mind says, let her be and let her go if that is what is going on,
since
her quality of life has gotten so poor, but my heart is scared.

La
"Fred" wrote in message
news Sorry about that UPPER positioning.

You are back to Journaling?

Have you cut back activities/exercise to do the studying?

Are you really measuring/weighing portions or taking for granted
that
you know what a cup of cereal "looks" like (this is my big one)

Then again, you are below WW's goal even if not your own one.
Maybe
your body is designed to be at the upper end of their range -
there
must be a reason for the ranges which actually are quite large.
And
now that I mention that, does anybody know the derivation of WW
ranges
for heights? Just based on averages? Medical or scientific? (why
can't I find the url that has the WW points chart????)

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different. Going to mow
the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh in, thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159

As usual, I'm late - but I'm still happy to hear your mom is doing much better. I
honestly don't think we will ever be ready, there is never enough time to prepare
ourselves for the inevitable. I guess all we can do is accept it when it comes,
and no in our hearts that it is what is best for THEM, no more suffering. Enjoy
today!

joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 18:20:22 GMT, "Lesanne" wrote:

She is suddenly Way better today, wet cough gone, perky as ever. See, this
is not up to me, whether I am "ready" or not. Today she isn't.

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
Sorry to hear about your mom. It's so hard to let go, even if we know
it's what
is right for them. My mom constantly talks about wanting to go, I tell
her I'm
not done with her yet. I understand her feelings, am not as sure that she
understands mine. She only tells me that I'll get over it, and I often
wonder if
her unspoken words are that she will not get over what is going on
internally with
her.

I have no words of wisdom, and you probably don't need them anyway. Other
than
hang in there dear. Those emotional issues are extemely difficult, at
best. Try
not to let them continuously get the best of you, and don't beat yourself
up on
that rare occassion when they do.

Joyce

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:11:57 GMT, "Lesanne" wrote:

WW ranges are pretty much based upon normal BMI ranges.

I was back to journaling, and getting things sort of under control, but
yesterday went hog wild. If I had to say why, it was a combo of actual
hunger, and I think the stresses around here lately. There is more going
on
than just school. I have daughter problems, and Mom is also showing some
signs that may be heart failure.

My mind says, let her be and let her go if that is what is going on,
since
her quality of life has gotten so poor, but my heart is scared.

La
"Fred" wrote in message
news Sorry about that UPPER positioning.

You are back to Journaling?

Have you cut back activities/exercise to do the studying?

Are you really measuring/weighing portions or taking for granted that
you know what a cup of cereal "looks" like (this is my big one)

Then again, you are below WW's goal even if not your own one. Maybe
your body is designed to be at the upper end of their range - there
must be a reason for the ranges which actually are quite large. And
now that I mention that, does anybody know the derivation of WW ranges
for heights? Just based on averages? Medical or scientific? (why
can't I find the url that has the WW points chart????)

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different. Going to mow the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh in, thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159

Do you sign all those letters after your name? And how do you know what order to
put them in? I know I would somehow botch it all up. Go for the entire alphabet,
might make things easier. g

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 18:24:19 GMT, "Lesanne" wrote:

Oh yeah. Some people who know me say I am "collecting letters". I have the
BBA, and then the CPA, and then the ADN, and now I am going to get the MSN.
I am going to see if I can somehow get the entire alphabet by the time I
die.


And at least you have a degree - I can't say the same. I gave up the
career to
stay home with the kids. Now I'm too lazy to go back, don't really have
the
desire for a full blown career. I find enough to do to keep myself out of
trouble. G Although, I am thinking of finding some internet courses to
learn
excel, graphics and some other computer things I would like to play around
with.
Maybe I'll dig out that summer jr. college brochure that came into the
house a few
weeks ago.

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 14:53:26 GMT, "Lesanne" wrote:

I can tell you something for sure. If a child decides to quit school and
go
to work, the "I told you so days" are down the line . My psycho baby
has sucked that one up now, despite being in a looney relationship. She
Gets to school, no matter what else is going on, and she gets fairly
decent
grades (enough to stay qualified for Pell Grants, with a little cushion
to
boot). She has a 3 point something GPA. Nothing like living in the real
world for a year (or in her case 13 years) to show one the value of
college.
And I cannot throw stones. Got my first degree when I was in my 30's.
I had a co worker in the accounting days that said "Mothers of adult
children need to learn to shut up and wear beige".

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
LMAO! Oh, I KNOW it ain't his head - mama isn't stupid. My oldest
girl
and I
were talking about this exact thing the other day. Sonny boy is very
trusting, a
very gentle soul. It's his first girlfriend, he fell hard. And I'm
sure
he isn't
thinking with that brain right now. g

Yup, I am thankful that she isn't afraid to work and does appear to be
trying to
get caught up on those credit problems. I just get angry that she
pulls
the kid
down to her level of thinking. He's always had more common sense than
that. The
funny thing is, she is a nice girl - just has some backwards thinking
going on
right now. I thought it was just me - then hub started in. When our
oldest girl
and her hub told us they wouldn't mind seeing her go the way of the
wind,
I knew
those instincts must be on target. Oh well, what ya gonna do besides
keep
your
mouth shut and hope for the best?

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 11:25:44 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

Hey we could all go hide. Are you sure, by the way, that it is his
Head
that is getting screwed here? :0 Bad me... She sounds like she is a
real
pain.
At least she has a job and a car though, however she got em.

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
What is it with those *others* in relationships, who refuse to be
supportive? My
son is much younger, 19 - will be 20 in August - he has been dating
a
23
year old
girl for quite some time now (long enough to scare me that he will
do
something
permanent and scary at this point in his life). Before meeting her
he
was
very
happy away at college, and doing very well. After meeting her,
things
began
slipping, problems became large, scholastic enthusiasm dropped to
almost
nil. He
came home and enrolled at the local jr. college. Not a bad thing to
do,
while he
screws his head back on. BUT ...

The more I talk to her, the angrier I become. She dropped out of
college,
and is
very proud of it. She sat and told us that had she stayed and
received
her
degree, she would only be earning $25M/year - and she is doing so
much
better than
that now. She goes on to blatantly state that my son will do just
fine
without
that *piece of paper*. He starts talking about wanting a new car, I
tell
him to
get that degree and he will be able to afford something very nice
down
the
road.
SHE comes back with, "my parents used to always tell me that ... now
I
just laugh
at them". You don't know how hard I bit my tongue to keep from
saying,
"but why
are you laughing? You still don't own a car. You lease a car
because
your credit
sucks. In 6 months when your lease expires, you told us that you
have
to
come up
with $9000 to pay out the balance of the lease, or sell the car.
You
don't get
it". She has my son convinced that she is earning a *six figure
income* -
yet she
lives in an apartment, can't afford to purchase anything, last month
couldn't
afford to purchase a dog she desperately wanted.

My thinking is that if she is serious about my son, wouldn't she
want
him
to
continue in school so he may be able to support her at some point of
their
lives?
I would think she would have a vested interest in his future?
Instead,
she seems
to be encouraging him to not pursue his dreams.

Sonny boy and I had a long talk about this earlier in the week. I
don't
know how
much of his answers were only lip service, but as of our discussion
he
isn't quite
ready to give up his baseball career dreams ... yet. He told me
that
the
only way
they could possibly become reality is to play ball ... and the only
way
to
play
ball now at his age is to stay in school. I gently told him how I
felt
but that
ultimately the decision is his. But he should think long and hard
before
making
that decision ... 20 years down the road will he hold a lot of
resentment
for
someone that made him give up those dreams. There is a big
difference
in
trying
and not succeeding ... and just not succeeding. He had no answer,
but
I
hope it
did give him something to think about.

If you find a good place to hide ... can I come with?

Joyce

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:16:24 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

My daughter is about half way through a college education at age
35.
And
in
an incredibly dysfunctional relationship. Right now she is on
break,
and
I
am just sticking my head in the ground .... Her S.O. would very
much
like
her to fail at college. She is getting mostly A's and B's, but
going
off
on
the occasional self destructive "whatever". It amazes me. I guess
she
could
get straight A's if she wasn't. I am at a point now, where if she
gets a
degree, I am going to move a minimum of 1000 miles away from them,
and
just
hijack the grandbaby in the summer or something. Actually, she has
2
years
(I have been helping, by baby sitting while she goes to class, and
in
other
ways). If she is not done in 2 years, I am Still going to hide.

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
I know about daughter problems. Thankfully I was able to drive
away
from mine. I'm better off not knowing. She has a few too many of
her
dad's traits for me to have much tolerance for certain
shenanigans.

What a jumble of feelings and thoughts you must be having. Even
when
one knows that death is not the worst thing that can happen to a
person, letting a loved one move on is about the hardest thing
one
ever has to do in life.

May you receive the wisdom and strength you need to make good
decisions for you and your family.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:14:11 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

I am making some changes. This is not going to get me. And
yeah,
there
is
a LOT going on. (see answer to Fred)

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Other than the new focus on studying instead of weight
loss/maintenance, is there anything else different going on
with
you?
Are you keeping up your activity levels? Have your routines
changed?
Might this be a seasonal thing?

If this is a one-time fluctuation, don't overly fret about it.
But
if
you think it's a trend, then going to a meeting might be just
the
answer.

I found that my absence from this group during my vacation had
the
effect of lessening my focus. Is it possible for you to
schedule
regular time here?

There is a way for you to accommodate being a student and
maintaining
your weight loss. You just haven't yet found the plan that
will
help
you reach all of your goals. You will, though.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different. Going to
mow
the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh in,
thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159

I think it was Fred who described it very well. The best I could come up with is
it's like walking straight into a sauna ... and not being able to get out. Air is
extremely heavy. Everyone says to wear cotton, it absorbs sweat, keeps you
cooler. What they don't tell you is that within 5 minutes of being outdoors, your
cotton shirts grow about 12 inches longer. I remember playing softball and
feeling like I was moving in slow motion when trying to run. It was very
difficult to move through the thick air.

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 13:33:24 -0700, "Deb in Northern California"
wrote:

Okay, since I rarely deal with humidity at all and have never been to
Chicago, New York, Texas or any other spots in the lower 48 that suffers
from humidity, the only thing I can use to gauge what humidity is like is in
London and also in Hawaii. Of course London was in the 70s and humid as far
as I was concerned when I was there the one time it was warmer than normal.
But Hawaii has very heavy humidity and I did find it worse in August than in
April. So could someone help me with getting a reference to what Chicago's
humidity is like in comparison to what I have experienced.

Debbie


"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
Seattle, anyone?

Two of the 4 days in NY were humid. I really did not like it. I do
not understand why this gray and otherwise damp place is not generally
humid but it is not. Even when warm it is not at all humid by NY or
Chicago standards.

On Sun, 23 May 2004 14:54:34 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

Wow. Can I blame the humidity? . It is humid here pretty much all the
time.
We are back to the months of being in the 90's, temp and humidity. Whine


"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
My scales have been up significantly the past few days also. I didn't
weigh
yesterday or today but am assuming more of the same. For the most part
eating has
not been a problem, that I can put a finger on ... at least not until
yesterday.
g Back to routine today and throughout the week. I am thinking a
combo
of pms
and local humidity (which is currently 89% ... down from yesterdays
99%).
For
some goofy reason I always show an increase when the humidity is up.
Regardless,
it does have my attention now too. Now to just do something about it,
but
I fear
I'm going to be fighting a losing battle for a few weeks - at least whe
n
it comes
to that goofy number on the scale. sigh

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 11:23:23 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

Brains are actually surprisingly light
An aside, this morning 160.5. Just goes to show. Freaky scale
yesterday.
But I am really paying attention now, it startled me.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
Okay. I forget though how wide the range is. 30 pounds is a lot
and
it is not all muscle - there is still a slight bit of gray matter
(G)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:17:48 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

There is no way you are in ANYONE's Fat range. Muscle weighs more,
so
they
have to try to cover as much ground as they can I think.

"Fred" wrote in message
.. .
Interesting. A friend does not like the fact that WW gives us
older
folks more allowance to be 'fat' as she calls it!

Here's my ranges - interesting that I could have a 33 pound
variance
and be normal BMI???

Low Age 25 Age 45 OLD AGE(g)

5'8" 131 151 158 164



On Sat, 22 May 2004 14:41:12 -0700, "Deb in Northern California"
wrote:

Years ago, WW had different weight charts for men vs. women and
adults
vs.
teens. I have it in one of their old cookbooks and refer to it
most
often
as it seems to be a little bit more specific than their current
weight
charts in the Welcome Booklet.

Debbie

"Fred" wrote in message
news Sorry about that UPPER positioning.

You are back to Journaling?

Have you cut back activities/exercise to do the studying?

Are you really measuring/weighing portions or taking for
granted
that
you know what a cup of cereal "looks" like (this is my big
one)

Then again, you are below WW's goal even if not your own one.
Maybe
your body is designed to be at the upper end of their range -
there
must be a reason for the ranges which actually are quite
large.
And
now that I mention that, does anybody know the derivation of
WW
ranges
for heights? Just based on averages? Medical or scientific?
(why
can't I find the url that has the WW points chart????)

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different. Going to
mow
the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh in,
thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159

I believe she was getting prices for a 3000 sq ft home, large, but not grande by
the standards being built in our area. Needless to say, she has moved on to other
builders/carpenters - this guy had stars in his eyes.

In the field my husband is in, age and experience go a long way - but it's still
hard to convince companies of that. He changed jobs several years ago, due to the
closing of the company he worked for, took about 6 months for him to find anyone
willing to take on someone over the age of 50 ... but he did. The contacts he has
from previous experience are unbelievable, tradeoffs are made, lots of little
things that save a buttload of money yet the younger inexperienced have no idea as
to how to play the game or where to go. There was a recent fiasco with one of the
general contractors and a superintendant straight out of college ... trying to
schedule to many things at the same time. It resulted in excavators, iron workers
and sewer crews falling all over each other and not one thing getting done.
Unfortunately, superintendant was let go, but not before major structural damages
were already done. But I think those are hard lessons that don't get learned
until after the fact ... like you said, companies shooting themselves in the foot.

Consulting is what our home business originally started out as, kind of a sideline
for hub when he was laid off. It paid the bills, has grown into some other venues
since he doesn't really have the time now to do too much consulting. I do think
there is a lot of need out there for these services though.

Joyce

On Mon, 24 May 2004 18:09:02 -0500, "skiur" wrote:

dang. 450K for how many square feet?

The bringing in younger/cheaper labor ends up shooting a lot of companies in
the foot if the company does something like engineering services and needs
someone with experience...but well...I don't want to go there right now.
I've noticed that older people are coming on as consultants most days or
they find a company where a mature employee isn't bad (rarer, but foreign
companies are the place for that sort of thing.)

J

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
I haven't read the entire article, just skimmed the beginning - but it
looks like
it is right on target. I have it bookmarked and will get back to it this
afternoon (between loads of laundry). It does state (from what little I
read)
exactly what hub and I have questioned for many years ... how will our
children
ever be able to afford their own homes ... at least in this area. My
oldest girl
is seeing this now, even though she has owned two previous homes. They
jumped the
gun, sold their *old* home and are now trying to build another (old home
was
really only 3 years old). They wanted to move into our town, smallish
community,
good schools for the kids. MIL owns the empty lot next door to her,
directly
across the street from us. The thought was it would be very affordable to
build
if they had the free lot. WRONG! The builders seem to hear the town name
and
jack prices way up. The most current price they were given was $450,000 -
for
house only. That is assanine. Now they are looking into subcontracting
it all
out on their own, but are having trouble finding tradesmen to work that
route. Oh
well, not my problem. g

Another one I'm seeing the companies doing (their logic) is that by
bringing
someone in with that degree it will lower the initial salary. Chances are
that
the man replaced that had been with your company for over 10 years, was
making a
higher salary than the person they brought in to replace him. It's kind
of a
vicious circle, I seem to hear it over and over every few years. The
economy
sucks right now in our area, companies are trying to boost their profits
where
they can. Decreasing employment opportunities, hiring lower initial
salaries all
helps that bottom dollar as stockholders scream about their investments
not
increasing. I firmly do believe that in todays market you do need that
piece of
paper, regardless as to what it is in. It opens doors, it gets you
started. I'm
not as sure as to how long it keeps you where you want to be ... at least
within
one specific company. It will always continue to open those doors. I
have seen
too many higher salaried/higher educated people being turned away from
jobs lately
- told they were too qualified and too expensive. sigh A close friend
of ours
took 2 years to finally get back to work after his company closed the
doors. The
companies refused to believe him when he told them he wasn't looking for a
higher
salary, he was only looking for employment. Youth seems to win out on
this one.
My brother is also going through the same sweats ... has been with his
company for
many many years, has a higher position and salary, and degree. Yet he
sees the
writing on the wall with each internal company layoff - and he just turned
50.
Hub is very knowledgable in his business, has many contacts and experience
that
youth doesn't have the advantage of. He sweats - knows at 57 he is at
that age
where it gets tougher each day to find new employment. Aging isn't nice.
g

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 10:17:58 -0500, "skiur" wrote:

:-) See I learn something every day. The M confused me and the
following
paragraphs didn't jive. I'm not surprised that she's unhappy with the
current situation at her job. I would be too. Here's an article from
Crain's Chicago Business about home prices surpassing affordability in
our
area that I found interesting, but unrelated to the topic of "her".
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=12585

For what it's worth regarding pieces of paper.....Several people at my
company were let go last week because their piece of paper wasn't high
enough and they wanted someone with a specific degree. In one of the
cases,
they had the replacement person already named before they let her go.
The
other guy was there for over 10 years and he was in his middle 50s.
Companies don't care anymore. They only keep you if you bring a value to
them that is more than what they pay you. The folks I work with that
don't
have the sheepskin are quaking in their boots and think they are next
regardless of the time they put in. The ones with Associate degress are
worried too and the company doesn't want to pay to educate them.

I have an overqualified piece of paper for my position and for whatever
reasons, the higher ups seem to respect me more and talk to me more than
to
people who have been there longer. I don't get asked to do anything that
hints of "favors" that are basically fools errands.

I learned several hard lessons before I went back for my piece of paper.
The biggest was when I was working in a company where I interviewed for a
better position. I wasn't highered because the person who was top
candidate
had a degree. (Didn't matter that it was completely unrelated to the job
position. It was a piece of paper.) In addition that same person kept
coming to me in order to get help for the tasks. I left that job after I
figured it out. My pride couldn't take it. That was in '97.

Julie


"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
LOL! I'll be right over ... as soon as I get my house in order, and
the
laundry
caught up. Things are bad enough in the laundry department that
yesterday
I opted
to go and buy mom new stuff - finally gave up on getting the old stuff
washed
before I visited her. g I can no longer find the kitchen table, but
I'm
betting it's sitting somewhere underneath all the crap that has been
deposited/dumped inside the front door. At least I have been keeping
caught up on
the indoor gravel pit the boys keep dragging in. G

NO! Not 25million. Sorry - back in my working days (way back in the
ice
ages)
thousands were written as *M*. I worked for a company that provided
names
for
direct mailings. If a customer requested ten groups of 45thousand
customers, the
order would be written up as 450M (line through the M) total - guess
that
old
habit just popped back into my head for some reason. Anyway, I did
mean
$25,000/year ... and it is laughable when we are tried to be convinced
that she is
earning *a 6 figure income*. I've often thought that maybe she is
counting those
digits AFTER the decimal point. g

Her profession is working for a high risk mortgage brokerage company.
You
know,
those people that can't get conventional loans and have to go somewhere
and pay
mega interest rates ... they go to her company (among others). I have
no
idea
what position she is in now, she did get a *promotion* a few months
back.
But
things have been tougher this past month. Several of the people who
work
under
her have been let go, thus making her *bonus* possibilities smaller -
as
well as
her bonus rate being lowered. She is unhappy and talking about moving
companies,
she doesn't understand that they all more than likely have the same
policies and
hire the same people with little to no training. Move them in when
things
are
good, move them out when things are bad. She is not qualified for
anything else,
THAT is what she doesn't understand.

I have been told that things worked out just fine for those in hubs and
my
generation without college education. The kids don't believe us when
we
tell them
it's a different world out there today. I tried to use the example
that
today my
oldest girl with the computer degree would be hired long before I would
in
the
same field, regardless as to my having much more experience and
actually
knowing
more. I am told I am wrong, I know nothing. sigh

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 08:15:02 -0500, "skiur"
wrote:

You can come to my house and work on stuff if it'll help you get your
mind
off things. Working on the house has been a great way to divert
myself
from
everything else.

Did you mean to say that if this girl got her degree she would be
making
$25
million a year? If that's the case she's dumb for not staying in
school
;-)
What does she do to put her in such a "wonderful" position in life?

Julie

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
What is it with those *others* in relationships, who refuse to be
supportive? My
son is much younger, 19 - will be 20 in August - he has been dating
a
23
year old
girl for quite some time now (long enough to scare me that he will
do
something
permanent and scary at this point in his life). Before meeting her
he
was
very
happy away at college, and doing very well. After meeting her,
things
began
slipping, problems became large, scholastic enthusiasm dropped to
almost
nil. He
came home and enrolled at the local jr. college. Not a bad thing to
do,
while he
screws his head back on. BUT ...

The more I talk to her, the angrier I become. She dropped out of
college,
and is
very proud of it. She sat and told us that had she stayed and
received
her
degree, she would only be earning $25M/year - and she is doing so
much
better than
that now. She goes on to blatantly state that my son will do just
fine
without
that *piece of paper*. He starts talking about wanting a new car, I
tell
him to
get that degree and he will be able to afford something very nice
down
the
road.
SHE comes back with, "my parents used to always tell me that ... now
I
just laugh
at them". You don't know how hard I bit my tongue to keep from
saying,
"but why
are you laughing? You still don't own a car. You lease a car
because
your credit
sucks. In 6 months when your lease expires, you told us that you
have
to
come up
with $9000 to pay out the balance of the lease, or sell the car.
You
don't get
it". She has my son convinced that she is earning a *six figure
income* -
yet she
lives in an apartment, can't afford to purchase anything, last month
couldn't
afford to purchase a dog she desperately wanted.

My thinking is that if she is serious about my son, wouldn't she
want
him
to
continue in school so he may be able to support her at some point of
their
lives?
I would think she would have a vested interest in his future?
Instead,
she seems
to be encouraging him to not pursue his dreams.

Sonny boy and I had a long talk about this earlier in the week. I
don't
know how
much of his answers were only lip service, but as of our discussion
he
isn't quite
ready to give up his baseball career dreams ... yet. He told me
that
the
only way
they could possibly become reality is to play ball ... and the only
way
to
play
ball now at his age is to stay in school. I gently told him how I
felt
but that
ultimately the decision is his. But he should think long and hard
before
making
that decision ... 20 years down the road will he hold a lot of
resentment
for
someone that made him give up those dreams. There is a big
difference
in
trying
and not succeeding ... and just not succeeding. He had no answer,
but
I
hope it
did give him something to think about.

If you find a good place to hide ... can I come with?

Joyce

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:16:24 GMT, "Lesanne"
wrote:

My daughter is about half way through a college education at age
35.
And
in
an incredibly dysfunctional relationship. Right now she is on
break,
and
I
am just sticking my head in the ground .... Her S.O. would very
much
like
her to fail at college. She is getting mostly A's and B's, but
going
off
on
the occasional self destructive "whatever". It amazes me. I guess
she
could
get straight A's if she wasn't. I am at a point now, where if she
gets a
degree, I am going to move a minimum of 1000 miles away from them,
and
just
hijack the grandbaby in the summer or something. Actually, she has
2
years
(I have been helping, by baby sitting while she goes to class, and
in
other
ways). If she is not done in 2 years, I am Still going to hide.

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
I know about daughter problems. Thankfully I was able to drive
away
from mine. I'm better off not knowing. She has a few too many of
her
dad's traits for me to have much tolerance for certain
shenanigans.

What a jumble of feelings and thoughts you must be having. Even
when
one knows that death is not the worst thing that can happen to a
person, letting a loved one move on is about the hardest thing
one
ever has to do in life.

May you receive the wisdom and strength you need to make good
decisions for you and your family.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:14:11 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

I am making some changes. This is not going to get me. And
yeah,
there
is
a LOT going on. (see answer to Fred)

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Other than the new focus on studying instead of weight
loss/maintenance, is there anything else different going on
with
you?
Are you keeping up your activity levels? Have your routines
changed?
Might this be a seasonal thing?

If this is a one-time fluctuation, don't overly fret about it.
But
if
you think it's a trend, then going to a meeting might be just
the
answer.

I found that my absence from this group during my vacation had
the
effect of lessening my focus. Is it possible for you to
schedule
regular time here?

There is a way for you to accommodate being a student and
maintaining
your weight loss. You just haven't yet found the plan that
will
help
you reach all of your goals. You will, though.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different. Going to
mow
the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh in,
thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159

450K would sound right if the land wasn't already owned. I'm glad she's
moving on-that guy needs his head examined or maybe he didn't understand the
question.

I'm glad things are looking good for your dh these days. The past few years
have been tough for a lot of folks.

"Joyce" wrote in message
...
I believe she was getting prices for a 3000 sq ft home, large, but not
grande by
the standards being built in our area. Needless to say, she has moved on
to other
builders/carpenters - this guy had stars in his eyes.

In the field my husband is in, age and experience go a long way - but it's
still
hard to convince companies of that. He changed jobs several years ago,
due to the
closing of the company he worked for, took about 6 months for him to find
anyone
willing to take on someone over the age of 50 ... but he did. The
contacts he has
from previous experience are unbelievable, tradeoffs are made, lots of
little
things that save a buttload of money yet the younger inexperienced have no
idea as
to how to play the game or where to go. There was a recent fiasco with
one of the
general contractors and a superintendant straight out of college ...
trying to
schedule to many things at the same time. It resulted in excavators, iron
workers
and sewer crews falling all over each other and not one thing getting
done.
Unfortunately, superintendant was let go, but not before major structural
damages
were already done. But I think those are hard lessons that don't get
learned
until after the fact ... like you said, companies shooting themselves in
the foot.

Consulting is what our home business originally started out as, kind of a
sideline
for hub when he was laid off. It paid the bills, has grown into some
other venues
since he doesn't really have the time now to do too much consulting. I do
think
there is a lot of need out there for these services though.

Joyce

On Mon, 24 May 2004 18:09:02 -0500, "skiur" wrote:

dang. 450K for how many square feet?

The bringing in younger/cheaper labor ends up shooting a lot of companies
in
the foot if the company does something like engineering services and
needs
someone with experience...but well...I don't want to go there right now.
I've noticed that older people are coming on as consultants most days or
they find a company where a mature employee isn't bad (rarer, but foreign
companies are the place for that sort of thing.)

J

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
I haven't read the entire article, just skimmed the beginning - but it
looks like
it is right on target. I have it bookmarked and will get back to it
this
afternoon (between loads of laundry). It does state (from what little
I
read)
exactly what hub and I have questioned for many years ... how will our
children
ever be able to afford their own homes ... at least in this area. My
oldest girl
is seeing this now, even though she has owned two previous homes. They
jumped the
gun, sold their *old* home and are now trying to build another (old
home
was
really only 3 years old). They wanted to move into our town, smallish
community,
good schools for the kids. MIL owns the empty lot next door to her,
directly
across the street from us. The thought was it would be very affordable
to
build
if they had the free lot. WRONG! The builders seem to hear the town
name
and
jack prices way up. The most current price they were given was
$450,000 -
for
house only. That is assanine. Now they are looking into
subcontracting
it all
out on their own, but are having trouble finding tradesmen to work that
route. Oh
well, not my problem. g

Another one I'm seeing the companies doing (their logic) is that by
bringing
someone in with that degree it will lower the initial salary. Chances
are
that
the man replaced that had been with your company for over 10 years, was
making a
higher salary than the person they brought in to replace him. It's
kind
of a
vicious circle, I seem to hear it over and over every few years. The
economy
sucks right now in our area, companies are trying to boost their
profits
where
they can. Decreasing employment opportunities, hiring lower initial
salaries all
helps that bottom dollar as stockholders scream about their investments
not
increasing. I firmly do believe that in todays market you do need that
piece of
paper, regardless as to what it is in. It opens doors, it gets you
started. I'm
not as sure as to how long it keeps you where you want to be ... at
least
within
one specific company. It will always continue to open those doors. I
have seen
too many higher salaried/higher educated people being turned away from
jobs lately
- told they were too qualified and too expensive. sigh A close
friend
of ours
took 2 years to finally get back to work after his company closed the
doors. The
companies refused to believe him when he told them he wasn't looking
for a
higher
salary, he was only looking for employment. Youth seems to win out on
this one.
My brother is also going through the same sweats ... has been with his
company for
many many years, has a higher position and salary, and degree. Yet he
sees the
writing on the wall with each internal company layoff - and he just
turned
50.
Hub is very knowledgable in his business, has many contacts and
experience
that
youth doesn't have the advantage of. He sweats - knows at 57 he is at
that age
where it gets tougher each day to find new employment. Aging isn't
nice.
g

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 10:17:58 -0500, "skiur"
wrote:

:-) See I learn something every day. The M confused me and the
following
paragraphs didn't jive. I'm not surprised that she's unhappy with the
current situation at her job. I would be too. Here's an article from
Crain's Chicago Business about home prices surpassing affordability in
our
area that I found interesting, but unrelated to the topic of "her".
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=12585

For what it's worth regarding pieces of paper.....Several people at my
company were let go last week because their piece of paper wasn't high
enough and they wanted someone with a specific degree. In one of the
cases,
they had the replacement person already named before they let her go.
The
other guy was there for over 10 years and he was in his middle 50s.
Companies don't care anymore. They only keep you if you bring a value
to
them that is more than what they pay you. The folks I work with that
don't
have the sheepskin are quaking in their boots and think they are next
regardless of the time they put in. The ones with Associate degress
are
worried too and the company doesn't want to pay to educate them.

I have an overqualified piece of paper for my position and for
whatever
reasons, the higher ups seem to respect me more and talk to me more
than
to
people who have been there longer. I don't get asked to do anything
that
hints of "favors" that are basically fools errands.

I learned several hard lessons before I went back for my piece of
paper.
The biggest was when I was working in a company where I interviewed
for a
better position. I wasn't highered because the person who was top
candidate
had a degree. (Didn't matter that it was completely unrelated to the
job
position. It was a piece of paper.) In addition that same person kept
coming to me in order to get help for the tasks. I left that job
after I
figured it out. My pride couldn't take it. That was in '97.

Julie


"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
LOL! I'll be right over ... as soon as I get my house in order, and
the
laundry
caught up. Things are bad enough in the laundry department that
yesterday
I opted
to go and buy mom new stuff - finally gave up on getting the old
stuff
washed
before I visited her. g I can no longer find the kitchen table,
but
I'm
betting it's sitting somewhere underneath all the crap that has been
deposited/dumped inside the front door. At least I have been
keeping
caught up on
the indoor gravel pit the boys keep dragging in. G

NO! Not 25million. Sorry - back in my working days (way back in the
ice
ages)
thousands were written as *M*. I worked for a company that provided
names
for
direct mailings. If a customer requested ten groups of 45thousand
customers, the
order would be written up as 450M (line through the M) total - guess
that
old
habit just popped back into my head for some reason. Anyway, I did
mean
$25,000/year ... and it is laughable when we are tried to be
convinced
that she is
earning *a 6 figure income*. I've often thought that maybe she is
counting those
digits AFTER the decimal point. g

Her profession is working for a high risk mortgage brokerage
company.
You
know,
those people that can't get conventional loans and have to go
somewhere
and pay
mega interest rates ... they go to her company (among others). I
have
no
idea
what position she is in now, she did get a *promotion* a few months
back.
But
things have been tougher this past month. Several of the people who
work
under
her have been let go, thus making her *bonus* possibilities
smaller -
as
well as
her bonus rate being lowered. She is unhappy and talking about
moving
companies,
she doesn't understand that they all more than likely have the same
policies and
hire the same people with little to no training. Move them in when
things
are
good, move them out when things are bad. She is not qualified for
anything else,
THAT is what she doesn't understand.

I have been told that things worked out just fine for those in hubs
and
my
generation without college education. The kids don't believe us
when
we
tell them
it's a different world out there today. I tried to use the example
that
today my
oldest girl with the computer degree would be hired long before I
would
in
the
same field, regardless as to my having much more experience and
actually
knowing
more. I am told I am wrong, I know nothing. sigh

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 08:15:02 -0500, "skiur"
wrote:

You can come to my house and work on stuff if it'll help you get
your
mind
off things. Working on the house has been a great way to divert
myself
from
everything else.

Did you mean to say that if this girl got her degree she would be
making
$25
million a year? If that's the case she's dumb for not staying in
school
;-)
What does she do to put her in such a "wonderful" position in life?

Julie

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
What is it with those *others* in relationships, who refuse to be
supportive? My
son is much younger, 19 - will be 20 in August - he has been
dating
a
23
year old
girl for quite some time now (long enough to scare me that he
will
do
something
permanent and scary at this point in his life). Before meeting
her
he
was
very
happy away at college, and doing very well. After meeting her,
things
began
slipping, problems became large, scholastic enthusiasm dropped to
almost
nil. He
came home and enrolled at the local jr. college. Not a bad thing
to
do,
while he
screws his head back on. BUT ...

The more I talk to her, the angrier I become. She dropped out of
college,
and is
very proud of it. She sat and told us that had she stayed and
received
her
degree, she would only be earning $25M/year - and she is doing so
much
better than
that now. She goes on to blatantly state that my son will do
just
fine
without
that *piece of paper*. He starts talking about wanting a new
car, I
tell
him to
get that degree and he will be able to afford something very nice
down
the
road.
SHE comes back with, "my parents used to always tell me that ...
now
I
just laugh
at them". You don't know how hard I bit my tongue to keep from
saying,
"but why
are you laughing? You still don't own a car. You lease a car
because
your credit
sucks. In 6 months when your lease expires, you told us that you
have
to
come up
with $9000 to pay out the balance of the lease, or sell the car.
You
don't get
it". She has my son convinced that she is earning a *six figure
income* -
yet she
lives in an apartment, can't afford to purchase anything, last
month
couldn't
afford to purchase a dog she desperately wanted.

My thinking is that if she is serious about my son, wouldn't she
want
him
to
continue in school so he may be able to support her at some point
of
their
lives?
I would think she would have a vested interest in his future?
Instead,
she seems
to be encouraging him to not pursue his dreams.

Sonny boy and I had a long talk about this earlier in the week.
I
don't
know how
much of his answers were only lip service, but as of our
discussion
he
isn't quite
ready to give up his baseball career dreams ... yet. He told me
that
the
only way
they could possibly become reality is to play ball ... and the
only
way
to
play
ball now at his age is to stay in school. I gently told him how
I
felt
but that
ultimately the decision is his. But he should think long and
hard
before
making
that decision ... 20 years down the road will he hold a lot of
resentment
for
someone that made him give up those dreams. There is a big
difference
in
trying
and not succeeding ... and just not succeeding. He had no
answer,
but
I
hope it
did give him something to think about.

If you find a good place to hide ... can I come with?

Joyce

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:16:24 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

My daughter is about half way through a college education at age
35.
And
in
an incredibly dysfunctional relationship. Right now she is on
break,
and
I
am just sticking my head in the ground .... Her S.O. would very
much
like
her to fail at college. She is getting mostly A's and B's, but
going
off
on
the occasional self destructive "whatever". It amazes me. I
guess
she
could
get straight A's if she wasn't. I am at a point now, where if
she
gets a
degree, I am going to move a minimum of 1000 miles away from
them,
and
just
hijack the grandbaby in the summer or something. Actually, she
has
2
years
(I have been helping, by baby sitting while she goes to class,
and
in
other
ways). If she is not done in 2 years, I am Still going to hide.

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
I know about daughter problems. Thankfully I was able to drive
away
from mine. I'm better off not knowing. She has a few too many
of
her
dad's traits for me to have much tolerance for certain
shenanigans.

What a jumble of feelings and thoughts you must be having.
Even
when
one knows that death is not the worst thing that can happen to
a
person, letting a loved one move on is about the hardest thing
one
ever has to do in life.

May you receive the wisdom and strength you need to make good
decisions for you and your family.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:14:11 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

I am making some changes. This is not going to get me. And
yeah,
there
is
a LOT going on. (see answer to Fred)

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Other than the new focus on studying instead of weight
loss/maintenance, is there anything else different going on
with
you?
Are you keeping up your activity levels? Have your routines
changed?
Might this be a seasonal thing?

If this is a one-time fluctuation, don't overly fret about
it.
But
if
you think it's a trend, then going to a meeting might be
just
the
answer.

I found that my absence from this group during my vacation
had
the
effect of lessening my focus. Is it possible for you to
schedule
regular time here?

There is a way for you to accommodate being a student and
maintaining
your weight loss. You just haven't yet found the plan that
will
help
you reach all of your goals. You will, though.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different. Going
to
mow
the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh
in,
thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159

Exactly! Since the land is already owned free and clear, the price should have
been much lower. This builder has put up some very grand homes within a few
blocks of us - probably in the $700K price range, maybe higher. I believe 2 out
of the 6 have sold, one of which now has another for sale sign back up. I'm sure
the homes are very gorgeous, but geeeeesh - not like this neighborhood is rich by
any stretch of the imagination. The builders only like to tell us that we are.
g

Last week she was interviewing architects - seemed to find the guys brother. g
When asked the price he would charge for drawing plans (actually, redrawing/minor
changes to floor plans she already has) he told her between $2 - $6 per square
foot and wouldn't budge or narrow it down. That's a mighty big price range when
looking at a 2800 sq ft home. She moved on and has found an older, more
established/experienced gentleman who quoted her $2.50-$3.00/sq ft. Maybe those
young guys are trying to make their fortunes early? G

The past few years have certainly been tough for many. We were very fortunate
when hub was laid off, could survive easily on the unemployment since the mortgage
on the house was paid off several years ago and we had no car payments or any
major outstanding bills. What I found very interesting in our county (DuPage) was
that the AVERAGE outstanding credit card balance was $23,000.00. I can't imagine
carrying a balance like that - but guess it isn't all that uncommon these days. I
think that and high mortgages are where most of the problems come from ... not
quite planning for the unexpected.

Joyce

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:41:46 -0500, "skiur" wrote:

450K would sound right if the land wasn't already owned. I'm glad she's
moving on-that guy needs his head examined or maybe he didn't understand the
question.

I'm glad things are looking good for your dh these days. The past few years
have been tough for a lot of folks.

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
I believe she was getting prices for a 3000 sq ft home, large, but not
grande by
the standards being built in our area. Needless to say, she has moved on
to other
builders/carpenters - this guy had stars in his eyes.

In the field my husband is in, age and experience go a long way - but it's
still
hard to convince companies of that. He changed jobs several years ago,
due to the
closing of the company he worked for, took about 6 months for him to find
anyone
willing to take on someone over the age of 50 ... but he did. The
contacts he has
from previous experience are unbelievable, tradeoffs are made, lots of
little
things that save a buttload of money yet the younger inexperienced have no
idea as
to how to play the game or where to go. There was a recent fiasco with
one of the
general contractors and a superintendant straight out of college ...
trying to
schedule to many things at the same time. It resulted in excavators, iron
workers
and sewer crews falling all over each other and not one thing getting
done.
Unfortunately, superintendant was let go, but not before major structural
damages
were already done. But I think those are hard lessons that don't get
learned
until after the fact ... like you said, companies shooting themselves in
the foot.

Consulting is what our home business originally started out as, kind of a
sideline
for hub when he was laid off. It paid the bills, has grown into some
other venues
since he doesn't really have the time now to do too much consulting. I do
think
there is a lot of need out there for these services though.

Joyce

On Mon, 24 May 2004 18:09:02 -0500, "skiur" wrote:

dang. 450K for how many square feet?

The bringing in younger/cheaper labor ends up shooting a lot of companies
in
the foot if the company does something like engineering services and
needs
someone with experience...but well...I don't want to go there right now.
I've noticed that older people are coming on as consultants most days or
they find a company where a mature employee isn't bad (rarer, but foreign
companies are the place for that sort of thing.)

J

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
I haven't read the entire article, just skimmed the beginning - but it
looks like
it is right on target. I have it bookmarked and will get back to it
this
afternoon (between loads of laundry). It does state (from what little
I
read)
exactly what hub and I have questioned for many years ... how will our
children
ever be able to afford their own homes ... at least in this area. My
oldest girl
is seeing this now, even though she has owned two previous homes. They
jumped the
gun, sold their *old* home and are now trying to build another (old
home
was
really only 3 years old). They wanted to move into our town, smallish
community,
good schools for the kids. MIL owns the empty lot next door to her,
directly
across the street from us. The thought was it would be very affordable
to
build
if they had the free lot. WRONG! The builders seem to hear the town
name
and
jack prices way up. The most current price they were given was
$450,000 -
for
house only. That is assanine. Now they are looking into
subcontracting
it all
out on their own, but are having trouble finding tradesmen to work that
route. Oh
well, not my problem. g

Another one I'm seeing the companies doing (their logic) is that by
bringing
someone in with that degree it will lower the initial salary. Chances
are
that
the man replaced that had been with your company for over 10 years, was
making a
higher salary than the person they brought in to replace him. It's
kind
of a
vicious circle, I seem to hear it over and over every few years. The
economy
sucks right now in our area, companies are trying to boost their
profits
where
they can. Decreasing employment opportunities, hiring lower initial
salaries all
helps that bottom dollar as stockholders scream about their investments
not
increasing. I firmly do believe that in todays market you do need that
piece of
paper, regardless as to what it is in. It opens doors, it gets you
started. I'm
not as sure as to how long it keeps you where you want to be ... at
least
within
one specific company. It will always continue to open those doors. I
have seen
too many higher salaried/higher educated people being turned away from
jobs lately
- told they were too qualified and too expensive. sigh A close
friend
of ours
took 2 years to finally get back to work after his company closed the
doors. The
companies refused to believe him when he told them he wasn't looking
for a
higher
salary, he was only looking for employment. Youth seems to win out on
this one.
My brother is also going through the same sweats ... has been with his
company for
many many years, has a higher position and salary, and degree. Yet he
sees the
writing on the wall with each internal company layoff - and he just
turned
50.
Hub is very knowledgable in his business, has many contacts and
experience
that
youth doesn't have the advantage of. He sweats - knows at 57 he is at
that age
where it gets tougher each day to find new employment. Aging isn't
nice.
g

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 10:17:58 -0500, "skiur"
wrote:

:-) See I learn something every day. The M confused me and the
following
paragraphs didn't jive. I'm not surprised that she's unhappy with the
current situation at her job. I would be too. Here's an article from
Crain's Chicago Business about home prices surpassing affordability in
our
area that I found interesting, but unrelated to the topic of "her".
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=12585

For what it's worth regarding pieces of paper.....Several people at my
company were let go last week because their piece of paper wasn't high
enough and they wanted someone with a specific degree. In one of the
cases,
they had the replacement person already named before they let her go.
The
other guy was there for over 10 years and he was in his middle 50s.
Companies don't care anymore. They only keep you if you bring a value
to
them that is more than what they pay you. The folks I work with that
don't
have the sheepskin are quaking in their boots and think they are next
regardless of the time they put in. The ones with Associate degress
are
worried too and the company doesn't want to pay to educate them.

I have an overqualified piece of paper for my position and for
whatever
reasons, the higher ups seem to respect me more and talk to me more
than
to
people who have been there longer. I don't get asked to do anything
that
hints of "favors" that are basically fools errands.

I learned several hard lessons before I went back for my piece of
paper.
The biggest was when I was working in a company where I interviewed
for a
better position. I wasn't highered because the person who was top
candidate
had a degree. (Didn't matter that it was completely unrelated to the
job
position. It was a piece of paper.) In addition that same person kept
coming to me in order to get help for the tasks. I left that job
after I
figured it out. My pride couldn't take it. That was in '97.

Julie


"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
LOL! I'll be right over ... as soon as I get my house in order, and
the
laundry
caught up. Things are bad enough in the laundry department that
yesterday
I opted
to go and buy mom new stuff - finally gave up on getting the old
stuff
washed
before I visited her. g I can no longer find the kitchen table,
but
I'm
betting it's sitting somewhere underneath all the crap that has been
deposited/dumped inside the front door. At least I have been
keeping
caught up on
the indoor gravel pit the boys keep dragging in. G

NO! Not 25million. Sorry - back in my working days (way back in the
ice
ages)
thousands were written as *M*. I worked for a company that provided
names
for
direct mailings. If a customer requested ten groups of 45thousand
customers, the
order would be written up as 450M (line through the M) total - guess
that
old
habit just popped back into my head for some reason. Anyway, I did
mean
$25,000/year ... and it is laughable when we are tried to be
convinced
that she is
earning *a 6 figure income*. I've often thought that maybe she is
counting those
digits AFTER the decimal point. g

Her profession is working for a high risk mortgage brokerage
company.
You
know,
those people that can't get conventional loans and have to go
somewhere
and pay
mega interest rates ... they go to her company (among others). I
have
no
idea
what position she is in now, she did get a *promotion* a few months
back.
But
things have been tougher this past month. Several of the people who
work
under
her have been let go, thus making her *bonus* possibilities
smaller -
as
well as
her bonus rate being lowered. She is unhappy and talking about
moving
companies,
she doesn't understand that they all more than likely have the same
policies and
hire the same people with little to no training. Move them in when
things
are
good, move them out when things are bad. She is not qualified for
anything else,
THAT is what she doesn't understand.

I have been told that things worked out just fine for those in hubs
and
my
generation without college education. The kids don't believe us
when
we
tell them
it's a different world out there today. I tried to use the example
that
today my
oldest girl with the computer degree would be hired long before I
would
in
the
same field, regardless as to my having much more experience and
actually
knowing
more. I am told I am wrong, I know nothing. sigh

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 08:15:02 -0500, "skiur"
wrote:

You can come to my house and work on stuff if it'll help you get
your
mind
off things. Working on the house has been a great way to divert
myself
from
everything else.

Did you mean to say that if this girl got her degree she would be
making
$25
million a year? If that's the case she's dumb for not staying in
school
;-)
What does she do to put her in such a "wonderful" position in life?

Julie

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
What is it with those *others* in relationships, who refuse to be
supportive? My
son is much younger, 19 - will be 20 in August - he has been
dating
a
23
year old
girl for quite some time now (long enough to scare me that he
will
do
something
permanent and scary at this point in his life). Before meeting
her
he
was
very
happy away at college, and doing very well. After meeting her,
things
began
slipping, problems became large, scholastic enthusiasm dropped to
almost
nil. He
came home and enrolled at the local jr. college. Not a bad thing
to
do,
while he
screws his head back on. BUT ...

The more I talk to her, the angrier I become. She dropped out of
college,
and is
very proud of it. She sat and told us that had she stayed and
received
her
degree, she would only be earning $25M/year - and she is doing so
much
better than
that now. She goes on to blatantly state that my son will do
just
fine
without
that *piece of paper*. He starts talking about wanting a new
car, I
tell
him to
get that degree and he will be able to afford something very nice
down
the
road.
SHE comes back with, "my parents used to always tell me that ...
now
I
just laugh
at them". You don't know how hard I bit my tongue to keep from
saying,
"but why
are you laughing? You still don't own a car. You lease a car
because
your credit
sucks. In 6 months when your lease expires, you told us that you
have
to
come up
with $9000 to pay out the balance of the lease, or sell the car.
You
don't get
it". She has my son convinced that she is earning a *six figure
income* -
yet she
lives in an apartment, can't afford to purchase anything, last
month
couldn't
afford to purchase a dog she desperately wanted.

My thinking is that if she is serious about my son, wouldn't she
want
him
to
continue in school so he may be able to support her at some point
of
their
lives?
I would think she would have a vested interest in his future?
Instead,
she seems
to be encouraging him to not pursue his dreams.

Sonny boy and I had a long talk about this earlier in the week.
I
don't
know how
much of his answers were only lip service, but as of our
discussion
he
isn't quite
ready to give up his baseball career dreams ... yet. He told me
that
the
only way
they could possibly become reality is to play ball ... and the
only
way
to
play
ball now at his age is to stay in school. I gently told him how
I
felt
but that
ultimately the decision is his. But he should think long and
hard
before
making
that decision ... 20 years down the road will he hold a lot of
resentment
for
someone that made him give up those dreams. There is a big
difference
in
trying
and not succeeding ... and just not succeeding. He had no
answer,
but
I
hope it
did give him something to think about.

If you find a good place to hide ... can I come with?

Joyce

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:16:24 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

My daughter is about half way through a college education at age
35.
And
in
an incredibly dysfunctional relationship. Right now she is on
break,
and
I
am just sticking my head in the ground .... Her S.O. would very
much
like
her to fail at college. She is getting mostly A's and B's, but
going
off
on
the occasional self destructive "whatever". It amazes me. I
guess
she
could
get straight A's if she wasn't. I am at a point now, where if
she
gets a
degree, I am going to move a minimum of 1000 miles away from
them,
and
just
hijack the grandbaby in the summer or something. Actually, she
has
2
years
(I have been helping, by baby sitting while she goes to class,
and
in
other
ways). If she is not done in 2 years, I am Still going to hide.

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
I know about daughter problems. Thankfully I was able to drive
away
from mine. I'm better off not knowing. She has a few too many
of
her
dad's traits for me to have much tolerance for certain
shenanigans.

What a jumble of feelings and thoughts you must be having.
Even
when
one knows that death is not the worst thing that can happen to
a
person, letting a loved one move on is about the hardest thing
one
ever has to do in life.

May you receive the wisdom and strength you need to make good
decisions for you and your family.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:14:11 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

I am making some changes. This is not going to get me. And
yeah,
there
is
a LOT going on. (see answer to Fred)

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Other than the new focus on studying instead of weight
loss/maintenance, is there anything else different going on
with
you?
Are you keeping up your activity levels? Have your routines
changed?
Might this be a seasonal thing?

If this is a one-time fluctuation, don't overly fret about
it.
But
if
you think it's a trend, then going to a meeting might be
just
the
answer.

I found that my absence from this group during my vacation
had
the
effect of lessening my focus. Is it possible for you to
schedule
regular time here?

There is a way for you to accommodate being a student and
maintaining
your weight loss. You just haven't yet found the plan that
will
help
you reach all of your goals. You will, though.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different. Going
to
mow
the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh
in,
thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159

maybe they need to charge that because their office is more expensive than
it should be while the older guy is doing it for the love of it. anyway,
i'm getting really down on the politics of this area and I won't be venting
them here.

"Joyce" wrote in message
...
Exactly! Since the land is already owned free and clear, the price should
have
been much lower. This builder has put up some very grand homes within a
few
blocks of us - probably in the $700K price range, maybe higher. I believe
2 out
of the 6 have sold, one of which now has another for sale sign back up.
I'm sure
the homes are very gorgeous, but geeeeesh - not like this neighborhood is
rich by
any stretch of the imagination. The builders only like to tell us that we
are.
g

Last week she was interviewing architects - seemed to find the guys
brother. g
When asked the price he would charge for drawing plans (actually,
redrawing/minor
changes to floor plans she already has) he told her between $2 - $6 per
square
foot and wouldn't budge or narrow it down. That's a mighty big price
range when
looking at a 2800 sq ft home. She moved on and has found an older, more
established/experienced gentleman who quoted her $2.50-$3.00/sq ft. Maybe
those
young guys are trying to make their fortunes early? G

The past few years have certainly been tough for many. We were very
fortunate
when hub was laid off, could survive easily on the unemployment since the
mortgage
on the house was paid off several years ago and we had no car payments or
any
major outstanding bills. What I found very interesting in our county
(DuPage) was
that the AVERAGE outstanding credit card balance was $23,000.00. I can't
imagine
carrying a balance like that - but guess it isn't all that uncommon these
days. I
think that and high mortgages are where most of the problems come from ...
not
quite planning for the unexpected.

Joyce

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:41:46 -0500, "skiur" wrote:

450K would sound right if the land wasn't already owned. I'm glad she's
moving on-that guy needs his head examined or maybe he didn't understand
the
question.

I'm glad things are looking good for your dh these days. The past few
years
have been tough for a lot of folks.

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
I believe she was getting prices for a 3000 sq ft home, large, but not
grande by
the standards being built in our area. Needless to say, she has moved
on
to other
builders/carpenters - this guy had stars in his eyes.

In the field my husband is in, age and experience go a long way - but
it's
still
hard to convince companies of that. He changed jobs several years ago,
due to the
closing of the company he worked for, took about 6 months for him to
find
anyone
willing to take on someone over the age of 50 ... but he did. The
contacts he has
from previous experience are unbelievable, tradeoffs are made, lots of
little
things that save a buttload of money yet the younger inexperienced have
no
idea as
to how to play the game or where to go. There was a recent fiasco with
one of the
general contractors and a superintendant straight out of college ...
trying to
schedule to many things at the same time. It resulted in excavators,
iron
workers
and sewer crews falling all over each other and not one thing getting
done.
Unfortunately, superintendant was let go, but not before major
structural
damages
were already done. But I think those are hard lessons that don't get
learned
until after the fact ... like you said, companies shooting themselves
in
the foot.

Consulting is what our home business originally started out as, kind of
a
sideline
for hub when he was laid off. It paid the bills, has grown into some
other venues
since he doesn't really have the time now to do too much consulting. I
do
think
there is a lot of need out there for these services though.

Joyce

On Mon, 24 May 2004 18:09:02 -0500, "skiur"
wrote:

dang. 450K for how many square feet?

The bringing in younger/cheaper labor ends up shooting a lot of
companies
in
the foot if the company does something like engineering services and
needs
someone with experience...but well...I don't want to go there right
now.
I've noticed that older people are coming on as consultants most days
or
they find a company where a mature employee isn't bad (rarer, but
foreign
companies are the place for that sort of thing.)

J

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
I haven't read the entire article, just skimmed the beginning - but
it
looks like
it is right on target. I have it bookmarked and will get back to it
this
afternoon (between loads of laundry). It does state (from what
little
I
read)
exactly what hub and I have questioned for many years ... how will
our
children
ever be able to afford their own homes ... at least in this area.
My
oldest girl
is seeing this now, even though she has owned two previous homes.
They
jumped the
gun, sold their *old* home and are now trying to build another (old
home
was
really only 3 years old). They wanted to move into our town,
smallish
community,
good schools for the kids. MIL owns the empty lot next door to her,
directly
across the street from us. The thought was it would be very
affordable
to
build
if they had the free lot. WRONG! The builders seem to hear the
town
name
and
jack prices way up. The most current price they were given was
$450,000 -
for
house only. That is assanine. Now they are looking into
subcontracting
it all
out on their own, but are having trouble finding tradesmen to work
that
route. Oh
well, not my problem. g

Another one I'm seeing the companies doing (their logic) is that by
bringing
someone in with that degree it will lower the initial salary.
Chances
are
that
the man replaced that had been with your company for over 10 years,
was
making a
higher salary than the person they brought in to replace him. It's
kind
of a
vicious circle, I seem to hear it over and over every few years.
The
economy
sucks right now in our area, companies are trying to boost their
profits
where
they can. Decreasing employment opportunities, hiring lower initial
salaries all
helps that bottom dollar as stockholders scream about their
investments
not
increasing. I firmly do believe that in todays market you do need
that
piece of
paper, regardless as to what it is in. It opens doors, it gets you
started. I'm
not as sure as to how long it keeps you where you want to be ... at
least
within
one specific company. It will always continue to open those doors.
I
have seen
too many higher salaried/higher educated people being turned away
from
jobs lately
- told they were too qualified and too expensive. sigh A close
friend
of ours
took 2 years to finally get back to work after his company closed
the
doors. The
companies refused to believe him when he told them he wasn't looking
for a
higher
salary, he was only looking for employment. Youth seems to win out
on
this one.
My brother is also going through the same sweats ... has been with
his
company for
many many years, has a higher position and salary, and degree. Yet
he
sees the
writing on the wall with each internal company layoff - and he just
turned
50.
Hub is very knowledgable in his business, has many contacts and
experience
that
youth doesn't have the advantage of. He sweats - knows at 57 he is
at
that age
where it gets tougher each day to find new employment. Aging isn't
nice.
g

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 10:17:58 -0500, "skiur"
wrote:

:-) See I learn something every day. The M confused me and the
following
paragraphs didn't jive. I'm not surprised that she's unhappy with
the
current situation at her job. I would be too. Here's an article
from
Crain's Chicago Business about home prices surpassing affordability
in
our
area that I found interesting, but unrelated to the topic of "her".
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=12585

For what it's worth regarding pieces of paper.....Several people at
my
company were let go last week because their piece of paper wasn't
high
enough and they wanted someone with a specific degree. In one of
the
cases,
they had the replacement person already named before they let her
go.
The
other guy was there for over 10 years and he was in his middle 50s.
Companies don't care anymore. They only keep you if you bring a
value
to
them that is more than what they pay you. The folks I work with
that
don't
have the sheepskin are quaking in their boots and think they are
next
regardless of the time they put in. The ones with Associate
degress
are
worried too and the company doesn't want to pay to educate them.

I have an overqualified piece of paper for my position and for
whatever
reasons, the higher ups seem to respect me more and talk to me more
than
to
people who have been there longer. I don't get asked to do
anything
that
hints of "favors" that are basically fools errands.

I learned several hard lessons before I went back for my piece of
paper.
The biggest was when I was working in a company where I interviewed
for a
better position. I wasn't highered because the person who was top
candidate
had a degree. (Didn't matter that it was completely unrelated to
the
job
position. It was a piece of paper.) In addition that same person
kept
coming to me in order to get help for the tasks. I left that job
after I
figured it out. My pride couldn't take it. That was in '97.

Julie


"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
LOL! I'll be right over ... as soon as I get my house in order,
and
the
laundry
caught up. Things are bad enough in the laundry department that
yesterday
I opted
to go and buy mom new stuff - finally gave up on getting the old
stuff
washed
before I visited her. g I can no longer find the kitchen
table,
but
I'm
betting it's sitting somewhere underneath all the crap that has
been
deposited/dumped inside the front door. At least I have been
keeping
caught up on
the indoor gravel pit the boys keep dragging in. G

NO! Not 25million. Sorry - back in my working days (way back in
the
ice
ages)
thousands were written as *M*. I worked for a company that
provided
names
for
direct mailings. If a customer requested ten groups of
45thousand
customers, the
order would be written up as 450M (line through the M) total -
guess
that
old
habit just popped back into my head for some reason. Anyway, I
did
mean
$25,000/year ... and it is laughable when we are tried to be
convinced
that she is
earning *a 6 figure income*. I've often thought that maybe she
is
counting those
digits AFTER the decimal point. g

Her profession is working for a high risk mortgage brokerage
company.
You
know,
those people that can't get conventional loans and have to go
somewhere
and pay
mega interest rates ... they go to her company (among others). I
have
no
idea
what position she is in now, she did get a *promotion* a few
months
back.
But
things have been tougher this past month. Several of the people
who
work
under
her have been let go, thus making her *bonus* possibilities
smaller -
as
well as
her bonus rate being lowered. She is unhappy and talking about
moving
companies,
she doesn't understand that they all more than likely have the
same
policies and
hire the same people with little to no training. Move them in
when
things
are
good, move them out when things are bad. She is not qualified
for
anything else,
THAT is what she doesn't understand.

I have been told that things worked out just fine for those in
hubs
and
my
generation without college education. The kids don't believe us
when
we
tell them
it's a different world out there today. I tried to use the
example
that
today my
oldest girl with the computer degree would be hired long before I
would
in
the
same field, regardless as to my having much more experience and
actually
knowing
more. I am told I am wrong, I know nothing. sigh

Joyce

On Sun, 23 May 2004 08:15:02 -0500, "skiur"

wrote:

You can come to my house and work on stuff if it'll help you get
your
mind
off things. Working on the house has been a great way to divert
myself
from
everything else.

Did you mean to say that if this girl got her degree she would
be
making
$25
million a year? If that's the case she's dumb for not staying
in
school
;-)
What does she do to put her in such a "wonderful" position in
life?

Julie

"Joyce" wrote in message
.. .
What is it with those *others* in relationships, who refuse to
be
supportive? My
son is much younger, 19 - will be 20 in August - he has been
dating
a
23
year old
girl for quite some time now (long enough to scare me that he
will
do
something
permanent and scary at this point in his life). Before
meeting
her
he
was
very
happy away at college, and doing very well. After meeting
her,
things
began
slipping, problems became large, scholastic enthusiasm dropped
to
almost
nil. He
came home and enrolled at the local jr. college. Not a bad
thing
to
do,
while he
screws his head back on. BUT ...

The more I talk to her, the angrier I become. She dropped out
of
college,
and is
very proud of it. She sat and told us that had she stayed and
received
her
degree, she would only be earning $25M/year - and she is doing
so
much
better than
that now. She goes on to blatantly state that my son will do
just
fine
without
that *piece of paper*. He starts talking about wanting a new
car, I
tell
him to
get that degree and he will be able to afford something very
nice
down
the
road.
SHE comes back with, "my parents used to always tell me that
....
now
I
just laugh
at them". You don't know how hard I bit my tongue to keep
from
saying,
"but why
are you laughing? You still don't own a car. You lease a car
because
your credit
sucks. In 6 months when your lease expires, you told us that
you
have
to
come up
with $9000 to pay out the balance of the lease, or sell the
car.
You
don't get
it". She has my son convinced that she is earning a *six
figure
income* -
yet she
lives in an apartment, can't afford to purchase anything, last
month
couldn't
afford to purchase a dog she desperately wanted.

My thinking is that if she is serious about my son, wouldn't
she
want
him
to
continue in school so he may be able to support her at some
point
of
their
lives?
I would think she would have a vested interest in his future?
Instead,
she seems
to be encouraging him to not pursue his dreams.

Sonny boy and I had a long talk about this earlier in the
week.
I
don't
know how
much of his answers were only lip service, but as of our
discussion
he
isn't quite
ready to give up his baseball career dreams ... yet. He told
me
that
the
only way
they could possibly become reality is to play ball ... and the
only
way
to
play
ball now at his age is to stay in school. I gently told him
how
I
felt
but that
ultimately the decision is his. But he should think long and
hard
before
making
that decision ... 20 years down the road will he hold a lot of
resentment
for
someone that made him give up those dreams. There is a big
difference
in
trying
and not succeeding ... and just not succeeding. He had no
answer,
but
I
hope it
did give him something to think about.

If you find a good place to hide ... can I come with?

Joyce

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:16:24 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

My daughter is about half way through a college education at
age
35.
And
in
an incredibly dysfunctional relationship. Right now she is on
break,
and
I
am just sticking my head in the ground .... Her S.O. would
very
much
like
her to fail at college. She is getting mostly A's and B's,
but
going
off
on
the occasional self destructive "whatever". It amazes me. I
guess
she
could
get straight A's if she wasn't. I am at a point now, where
if
she
gets a
degree, I am going to move a minimum of 1000 miles away from
them,
and
just
hijack the grandbaby in the summer or something. Actually,
she
has
2
years
(I have been helping, by baby sitting while she goes to
class,
and
in
other
ways). If she is not done in 2 years, I am Still going to
hide.

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
I know about daughter problems. Thankfully I was able to
drive
away
from mine. I'm better off not knowing. She has a few too
many
of
her
dad's traits for me to have much tolerance for certain
shenanigans.

What a jumble of feelings and thoughts you must be having.
Even
when
one knows that death is not the worst thing that can happen
to
a
person, letting a loved one move on is about the hardest
thing
one
ever has to do in life.

May you receive the wisdom and strength you need to make
good
decisions for you and your family.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:14:11 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

I am making some changes. This is not going to get me.
And
yeah,
there
is
a LOT going on. (see answer to Fred)

"Prairie Roots" wrote in message
.. .
Other than the new focus on studying instead of weight
loss/maintenance, is there anything else different going
on
with
you?
Are you keeping up your activity levels? Have your
routines
changed?
Might this be a seasonal thing?

If this is a one-time fluctuation, don't overly fret
about
it.
But
if
you think it's a trend, then going to a meeting might be
just
the
answer.

I found that my absence from this group during my
vacation
had
the
effect of lessening my focus. Is it possible for you to
schedule
regular time here?

There is a way for you to accommodate being a student
and
maintaining
your weight loss. You just haven't yet found the plan
that
will
help
you reach all of your goals. You will, though.

On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:07:20 GMT, "Lesanne"

wrote:

This is Bad. I have got to do something different.
Going
to
mow
the
yard
this morning then try to make my meeting, but not weigh
in,
thank
goodness I
am okay for May

Lesanne
365/162.5/159