A Weightloss and diet forum. WeightLossBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » WeightLossBanter forum » alt.support.diet newsgroups » Low Fat Diets
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old November 12th, 2003, 03:18 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

In calgary.general cory wrote:

People want a magic cure without having to work at it. If you just diet and
dont excercise you are doomed from the start.


Likewise, if you just excercise, but don't watch what you eat - which is my
problem.

I recognize now that proper health is a combination of the two. (Not that I
actually adhere to that, tho).



--
.................................................. ............................

Chase after truth like hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never
touch its coat-tails.
-Clarence Darrow

.................................................. ............................
http://www.memeticcandiru.com
  #82  
Old November 12th, 2003, 05:27 PM
Doug Freyburger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

Steven C \(Doktersteve\) wrote:

In the first phase of Atkins, you are stuck at less than 30 grams of carbs a
day.


In the first 14 days you get as close to 20 as you can without going over.

Obviously you want to cut out the empty carbs like glucose-fructose and
white sugars, and replace them with complete complex sugars, but how many
carbs do you cut out?


Atkins is a process not a menu. It's a process to answer that question
for you, in fact.

But that means that no one can answer it for *you*. Folks can only answer
for themselves or give reported averages. Form that the best you can do is
guess.

So for me: My CCLL is 50ish, my CCLM is 100ish. Those are common numbers.
To lose I need to stay under 50 in ketosis. To maintain I need to stay
between 50 and 100 grams per day.

But CCLLs range from 15 to 150. The only way to find out for yourself is
to follow the process and see what your body's own unique characteristics
take you.
  #83  
Old November 13th, 2003, 06:30 AM
Qilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

Ghandi "Thee Asshole" Sarl wrote:

is that simple. People fail at these fad diets because they are just that,
fads.


30 year fad ... interesting concept

--
Kitty =^..^=
168/159/130 - November Goal 155
17 September 03
  #84  
Old November 13th, 2003, 06:17 PM
Zsolt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

It's great that you realize you need to get into shape. Unfortunately
you can't just get on a diet and expect to loose weight then go back on
your merry way and eat the same things you ate before. The word "diet"
refers to the way one eats and does not mean to do a session of limiting
certain food groups etc.

If you want want to follow a certain system because you believe that it
is the right thing to do and it works for you do it. But there is no
short term solution. There are many variants of low carb type of diets
out there but they should be part of your lifestyle along with proper
exercising, which should include cardiovascular as well as weigh bearing
routines.

As it has been already pointed out, eat a healthy balanced diet. Unless
you have bodybuilding goals, it really doesn't matter what system you
follow as long as your calorie intake is less than what your body burns.
Start writing down what you eat all day, and add up the calories. You
can use www.fitday.com for this as well.

Eat 6 small meals a day, which will also increase your metabolism. Lift
weights as more muscle mass will use more calories. Add some cardio
(running, biking etc.) which will also use more calories, and there you
have it. Follow this for life and you will be set.

If you need more motivation check out Dave Draper's web site. He also
has a weekly newsletter that should help you to whip you in shape.
http://davedraper.com/draper-newsletter.html

Good luck,
Zsolt

Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:
"MadRedHatter" wrote in message
news:Ydhrb.346965$6C4.158687@pd7tw1no...

"Steven C (Doktersteve)" wrote in message
news:Wbhrb.6788$jy.3697@clgrps13...

Oh man... here I am again considering trying the Atkins diet.


Or hey .. how about doing this ..

Eat sensibly. Exercise regularly. Burn more calories then you take in.

Why fall for the fad diet de jour?




The thing is, the diet has been around for years (what, 30 years?), however
it is a fad lately, I will agree.
There are so many other "low carb" diets out there (Suzanne sommers has even
gotten in on it), and so many claim that it works.
Actually, I knew someone in Minnesota who managed to loose 45 lbs on it, but
he was actually considered very large (like 250 lbs).

anyhow, as I said in my post, I tried that diet, and eventually hit my wall.
I hit it pretty fast actually, after loosing only 15 lbs, I found it hard to
increase my cardio workout time to 2 hours plus just to continue to see
results.
I am not a skinny person by default, but I as I mentioned, not flabby fat.
so the best I can hope for is to shed the fat which is there and then build
muscle, lead a healthier lifestyle (exercise, eat right), and keep the
weight off. That is why I asked about how much back to "normal" a person
gets after the initial phase of Atkins.

Thanks.



  #85  
Old November 13th, 2003, 07:09 PM
jamie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default colon cancer, was Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

revek wrote:
Studies suggest that fiber helps reduce the occurence of colon-rectal
cancer. If Atkins done correctly means lots of fiber, then that would
suggest that Atkins could be a viable strategy against colon-rectal
cancer.


Fiber as prevention was only a theory, and it has not panned out.
See the two attached articles.

After Induction, Atkins allows ample high fiber vegetables, a little of
fibrous fruits, and nuts. When one is getting most of their allowed carbs
on Atkins from veggies and nuts, and not eating a lot of LC-engineered
products, there is a lot less waste than on a high carb diet. It is
also of a consistency that is more easily pushed through the tract than
the high volume of pasty waste from a high carb diet. The standard
recommendations of daily fiber might be overstated for a low-carb diet.

I've always gotten most of my carbs from veggies and nuts, and in more
than six years on Atkins, can count on one hand the number of times
I became constipated.

Also, a lot of newbies confuse needing to go less often than on a high
carb diet with constipation. Constipation means difficult or painful
elimination. "Daily regularity" is a phrase that was made up to sell
laxatives. According to various gastroenterology sites, normal bowel
function varies anywhere from 3 times a day to 3 times a week.



October 12, 2000
Study: Fiber Doesn't Prevent Cancer

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 7:02 p.m. ET

LONDON (AP) -- Evidence is mounting that fiber might not prevent colon
cancer after all, with a new study suggesting that one type of
supplement might even be bad for the colon.

The theory that a high-fiber diet wards off the second-leading cancer
killer has been around since the 1970s, but the evidence was never
strong. The concept began to crumble last year when the first of three
major U.S. studies found it had no effect.

In the latest study, published this week in The Lancet medical journal,
European researchers found that precancerous growths, or polyps, were
slightly more likely to recur in those taking a certain fiber
supplement.

The findings demonstrate the difficulty of trying to figure out the
relationship between nutrition and disease, said Dr. Michael Thun, who
heads epidemiological research for the American Cancer Society.

Fiber is particularly complicated, he said, because there are various
types and they all could act differently.

``The concept of a healthy diet continues to be the recommendation for
overall health,'' Thun said. ``But the painful process of clarifying
which ingredients in food do what will take us decades to sort out.''

Thun said the American Cancer Society will revisit its recommendations
on fiber and colon cancer in light of the growing body of evidence
eroding support for the theory that it wards off the disease.

Experts recommend a low fat, high-fiber diet rich in fruits and
vegetables and whole grains because it has been shown to reduce the
risk of heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and some other
cancers.

``There is definitely something dietary going on with bowel cancer, but
we haven't really been able to fix on what it is,'' said Dr. Tim Key, a
cancer researcher at Oxford University who was not connected with the
study. ``The cause of colorectal cancer is very far from understood.''

The latest study, conducted by scientists at the University of
Bourgogne, France, does not address the effect of a high-fiber diet,
but of supplements of one type of fiber -- ispaghula husk, a compound
similar to psyllium that is not part of the average diet.

Psyllium, a grain grown in India, is found in some over-the-counter
laxatives and fiber supplements.

The study, involving 552 Europeans who previously had precancerous
growths in the bowel, found that 29 percent of those receiving the
supplement got at least one new tumor within three years. That compares
with 20 percent of those given fake granules.

The findings may or may not be related to the role fiber in general
plays in bowel cancer but, considered together with other recent
studies, the plausibility of a protective role looks less likely.

``This does produce more evidence for the negative side,'' said Dr.
Lesley Walker, a scientist at the London-based Imperial Cancer Research
Fund, which was not connected to the research.

``But we still haven't got the totality of the evidence we want,''
Walker said. ``There are still some important ongoing studies under way
on the fiber question that should give us some solid answers.''

Sorting out the influence of genes, food, pollutants, living habits and
other factors requires drawing together information from many different
scientific approaches. Those include lab experiments, rat studies,
observations of large groups of people and human experiments.

Information from all of these kinds of science went into the rise and
fall of the idea that fiber prevents colon cancer.

It started when scientists noticed that Westerners get more colon
cancer than poor people in rural Africa. While the differences between
these two populations are too numerous to count, an obvious one was the
Africans' higher consumption of fiber.

Over time, many lines of evidence seemed to support the theory.

People see their risk of colon cancer rise when they move from places
with low rates to areas where it's more common and they adopt the local
eating habits.

Furthermore, the idea made sense. Fiber makes the stool bulkier and
perhaps more likely to dilute cancer-causing substances. It also causes
them to flow more quickly through the digestive system.

The data seemed convincing enough for health agencies to recommend high-
fiber foods as one way of preventing colon cancer.

Then last year, the first major study putting the theory to the test,
in which researchers based at Harvard School of Public Health studied
88,757 nurses for 16 years, concluded fiber doesn't help.

---end article--

from http://www.upmc.edu/newsbureau/science/vatstudy.htm

UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH
RESEARCHERS DEMONSTRATE METABOLIC LINK BETWEEN LARGE
WAISTS AND COLORECTAL CANCER

PITTSBURGH, July 15, 1999 -- People with large waistlines
suffer metabolic changes that significantly predispose them to
developing colorectal cancer, according to new data from a
University of Pittsburgh-led study whose results are published in the
July 7 issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. This
information is the first to link intra-abdominal fat, or visceral adipose
tissue (VAT), and its associated metabolic changes with colorectal
cancer, according to the authors.

"For several years, scientists have recognized that obese people are
more likely to develop colorectal cancer. Our study sheds light on
the metabolic process underlying this connection," said Robert
Schoen, M.D., assistant professor of medicine at the University of
Pittsburgh School of Medicine, where he is the medical director of
the Center for Families at Risk for Colorectal Cancer. "The
metabolic parameters we measured, including glucose, insulin and
waist circumference, reveal a risk of colorectal cancer that equals or
exceeds other known risk factors, such as having a first-degree
relative with this disease or consuming a high-fat or low-fiber diet."

The current report is based on a study of 5,849 people age 65 and
older who participated in the Cardiovascular Health Study, a
multi-center observational study of risk factors for coronary heart
disease and stroke. The researchers found that people with increased
waistlines, high levels of glucose (the sugar needed to fuel the body's
activities) and high levels of insulin (the hormone that helps dispose
of glucose) were twice as likely to develop colorectal cancer as
individuals without these characteristics. Individuals in the study who
developed colorectal cancer did not differ from their non-affected
counterparts in terms of smoking, current aspirin use, alcoholic
drinks consumed per week, percent of fat calories in diet or mean
number of vegetable or fruit servings per week. Study participants
were followed for an average 6.5 years.

"A very important finding here is that people with increased amounts
of abdominal obesity, or VAT, do not need to be diabetic to develop
colorectal cancer," remarked Lewis Kuller, M.D., Dr.P.H.,
chairman of the department of epidemiology at the University of
Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public Health and study
co-investigator. "Nondiabetics appear to have an elevated risk of
colorectal cancer as their fasting insulin and glucose rise, even if
glucose levels do not reach those defined as consistent with
diabetes."

Previous studies have shown that insulin and insulin-like growth
factors (IGFs) stimulate the growth of colorectal cancers. Obesity
appears to decrease the production of proteins that bind with
circulating IGFs, thus exposing the body to higher concentrations of
these substances. More research is needed to clarify the roles VAT,
insulin, IGF and IGF-binding factors play in causing colorectal
cancer, according to the investigators.

Other researchers on the federally funded study include Catherine
M. Tangen, Ph.D., department of biostatistics, University of
Washington, Seattle; Gregory L. Burke, M.D., department of public
health and sciences, Wake Forest University School of Medicine,
Winston-Salem, N.C.; Mary Cushman, M.D., departments of
medicine and pathology, University of Vermont, Burlington; Russell
P. Tracy, Ph.D., departments of medicine, pathology and
biochemistry, University of Vermont; Adrian Dobs, M.D.,
department of medicine, The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore,
Md.; and Peter J. Savage, M.D., National Heart, Lung and Blood
Institute, Bethesda, Md.

---end article---


--
jamie )

"There's a seeker born every minute."

  #86  
Old November 14th, 2003, 05:34 AM
Anglea Woollcombe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

go to atkin.com and they will tell u all the info u need and u can ask them
any question u want and they will answer i found this web site by mistake
last night and it gave ideas to do while on weight watchers. if u can stick
to it from what i read on the web site it does work.
check out the site.
angie
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
om...
Steven C \(Doktersteve\) wrote:

In the first phase of Atkins, you are stuck at less than 30 grams of

carbs a
day.


In the first 14 days you get as close to 20 as you can without going over.

Obviously you want to cut out the empty carbs like glucose-fructose and
white sugars, and replace them with complete complex sugars, but how

many
carbs do you cut out?


Atkins is a process not a menu. It's a process to answer that question
for you, in fact.

But that means that no one can answer it for *you*. Folks can only answer
for themselves or give reported averages. Form that the best you can do

is
guess.

So for me: My CCLL is 50ish, my CCLM is 100ish. Those are common numbers.
To lose I need to stay under 50 in ketosis. To maintain I need to stay
between 50 and 100 grams per day.

But CCLLs range from 15 to 150. The only way to find out for yourself is
to follow the process and see what your body's own unique characteristics
take you.





----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
  #87  
Old November 23rd, 2003, 06:00 PM
Trent Duke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

I WOULD NOT do the Atkins diet again. There is no reason to but your body
through a state of ketosis which is ABNORMAL. There is no reason to reduce
your intake of complex carbs either...only the simple ones. If you are
exercising, you NEED carbs.

I would first like to ask you a few simple questions:

1. How many calories do you consume daily and be honest about it?

2. When you tried a "low fat diet," how low did you go i.e. was it truely
low fat? The reason I ask is because the FDA standard low fat diet of 60g a
day is not low enough.

3. What is your fiber intake like? Are you getting at least 30g a day?

4. How do you exercise?

If you are 5 feet 6 inches and weigh 190, you are obese my friend. You
should weight closer to 140 give or take 10 pounds. Your waist line
shouldn't be more 32 inches.

I am a similar height as you. I have a 30 inch waist and a six pack stomach.
I eat sensibly and workout to have a fuel burning machine body. As a result,
I can eat those pancakes and not gain a pound.

I run a weight loss support group you might wanna visit. Click on the
"Links" section to read important articles to losing weight.

Trent


-- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/weightloss_health


From: "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)"
Newsgroups:
alt.support.diet,alt.support.diet.low-calorie,alt.support.diet.low-carb,alt.su
pport.diet.low-fat,calgary.general
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 01:59:18 GMT
Subject: Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

Oh man... here I am again considering trying the Atkins diet.
Lol, years ago I got the newest version of the book, and I tried to do it. I
guess I did not have the willpower to get past that first real carb craving
week that the book said I would experience, and I crashed, ended up eating
pancakes on a Sunday morning, and said "Atkins sucks".

The second time I tried the diet, I was dumb and did it with too much high
carb/sugar foods in the house.
I crashed, and blamed the Atkins diet. In retrospect, it may have been the
fact that at the time I was working a strenuous job and not getting enough
sleep, and generally not taking care of myself. It was also in the middle of
a hard time for me when I was experiencing some self loathing and depression
(more than is usual for a negative type guy like me).

So I am considering it again.
I am not fat. I have weight I don't want, but am not a "large" person. I am
five foot 6 inches and weigh about 190 lbs, however alot of that is muscle I
suspect, because my waist is 36, which isn't HUGE, but isn't skinny.
I want to loose some weight, and get alot of the refined sugars out of my
diet, as I have been a sugar junkie so long, and I don't really feel like
developing type 2 diabetes in my life...

But there seem to be roadblocks.
The Atkins diet seems to me in some ways like a clever scheme to sell
specialized foods from their website, and now through GNC stores.
You need to cut SO MANY carbs out of the diet to go into ketosis, that it
seems to me that you will end up spending lots on the high fatty foods that
are required whilst in the first few weeks (or months) of the program.
Meats, cheese, eggs, these are all things which are actually more expensive
than the highly processed foods that we are used to eating as a society. I
guess that you have to ask yourself whether you can put a pricetag on your
health though, right?

Can I drink diet soda while on Atkins? For some reason, Atkins himself seems
to act as if aspartame is the devil, and will impede your weight loss.
I question why an additive developed for diabetics and people on diet's
would deter people from loosing weight.
Of course, Atkins also conveniently sells products with the Splenda type of
sweetener in them (cant recall the non brand name atm).

How much back to "normal" (breads and other carbs) will I get back to after
I have lost my initial weight? I have a goal to have flat abs, to be honest,
as well as feel more energetic and the like.
So yeah, I have lots of questions, and I would appreciate it very much of
someone could shed some light on my queries.

I have tried low calorie/low fat/lots of exercise diets in the past with
MARGINAL success. In total I lost about 15 lbs before I found I had to
increase my cardio workout substantially. I don't drive a car, I take
transit and walk all over the place.
Its not as if I am suffering from the suburbanite syndrome of driving
everywhere and anywhere.

Thanks.



  #88  
Old December 8th, 2003, 05:27 PM
newbie_to_lowcarb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

sorry if this seems silly to ask Trent but why are you on the lowcarb board
if you don't like Atkins? and I don't mean that in a mean spirit, just
wondering. You have to remember, what didn't work for you can work wonders
for somebody else. I agree, your body *does* need carbs; every food has a
carb content. But it depends on where you get your carbs from that is key.
And believe it or not, there is a such thing as carb addiction; to be
addicted to high-sugar, high-fat, gluten laded, simple *or* complex carbs.
That is why it is so hard to cut things out and why after you do, you feel
so much better. Steve, I am sure that is why you are having a hard time.
because you are addicted to certain carbs that makes your system go nuts
when you eat them. For me, it is pasta, rice and sweets. Everytime I eat
rice or pasta, it is like I can't stop at one serving. And after ward, my
feet and ankles swell up something horrible. You know, once I started doing
Atkins and stopped eating them, I haven't had swollen feet or ankles or a
pasta craving since the beginning of Nov. That for me, is a victory. Yes,
it was hard and it was not easy but I am learning that I have to be strong
and not give in no matter what. And I agree, the Atkins plan is *not* for
everybody. Just like WW, Jenny Craig, and other plans don't work for some,
neither does Atkins. Every diet or plan has a success and failure rate.
Atkins has a higher success rate than any plan out there for losing and
keeping it off, if you stick to the plan. For us it is not a diet, it is a
way of eating that is forever. And I think if you would have stuck it out,
you still would have gotten your six-pack and 30" waist, if you were patient
and did the plan. I am sorry that doing Atkins has made you bitter about it
but you should not totally discourage some one who could probably help him
discover why he has been having problems and help him solve them. I mean, I
don't go around saying, "Don't do low fat!! It is not normal!! It can harm
you," or anything like that. There is nothing wrong with doing Atkins or the
plan; the only thing wrong is that people are so narrow minded that they
would rather stay the status -quo--of America being 65% fat--than accept
that maybe drs. etc. made mistakes and the data has been wrong all these
years or that it has evolved as we have evolved.

lowcarb_newbie

"Trent Duke" wrote in message
...
I WOULD NOT do the Atkins diet again. There is no reason to but your body
through a state of ketosis which is ABNORMAL. There is no reason to reduce
your intake of complex carbs either...only the simple ones. If you are
exercising, you NEED carbs.
I run a weight loss support group you might wanna visit. Click on the
"Links" section to read important articles to losing weight.

Trent


From: "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)"
Newsgroups:

alt.support.diet,alt.support.diet.low-calorie,alt.support.diet.low-carb,alt.
su
pport.diet.low-fat,calgary.general
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 01:59:18 GMT
Subject: Atkins = ? (should i start this again?)

Oh man... here I am again considering trying the Atkins diet.
Lol, years ago I got the newest version of the book, and I tried to do

it. I
guess I did not have the willpower to get past that first real carb

craving
week that the book said I would experience, and I crashed, ended up

eating
pancakes on a Sunday morning, and said "Atkins sucks".

The second time I tried the diet, I was dumb and did it with too much

high
carb/sugar foods in the house.
I crashed, and blamed the Atkins diet. In retrospect, it may have been

the
fact that at the time I was working a strenuous job and not getting

enough
sleep, and generally not taking care of myself. It was also in the

middle of
a hard time for me when I was experiencing some self loathing and

depression
(more than is usual for a negative type guy like me).



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AIDS, Anthrax, Atkins: The Scarlett A's.. Eat Carbs Stay Alive. Steve Randy Shilts Bayt General Discussion 7 June 25th, 2004 09:24 PM
AIDS, Anthrax, Atkins: The Scarlett A's.. Eat Carbs Stay Alive. Steve Randy Shilts Bayt Low Carbohydrate Diets 10 June 25th, 2004 09:24 PM
You want PROOF - Here's Quackery Proof. marengo Low Carbohydrate Diets 173 April 17th, 2004 11:26 PM
Dr. ATKINS IS A QUACK Irv Finkleman Low Carbohydrate Diets 5 March 31st, 2004 12:37 PM
Atkins = ? (should i start this again?) Steven C \(Doktersteve\) Low Carbohydrate Diets 98 December 8th, 2003 05:27 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 WeightLossBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.