Carb-short days?

"revek" wrote:

DigitalVinyl burbled across the ether:
I'm in OWL and still looking for my CCLL.

Just wondering what people do on days when your carbs are very low.

Do you try to bring your carbs up by eating something carby before end
of day??

No. I don't force things like that. Trying will drive you crazy. Just
accept that there will be days when you're over, and days when you're
under. So long as the weekly/monthly averages are where you want to be,
it will work out.

I especially wonder if I should do this since I'm trying to find my
CCLL.

Just keep an eye on it. Weekly averages are easier to work with for
finding ccll.

Today my carbs are 14.1, calories 1417 (318 lb male) and it's 9:30 at
night. My daily carb limit is 35 for this week.

If you really worry, try eating something with lots of fiber in it. At
least it will help keep your plumbing in tiptop shape.

Today was very busy-wasn't hungry in the morning, grabbed some
pepperoni&cheese as a snack, brought home some Loin Tip Steak (still
not sure what cut that is, bought at Costco)--very similar to SKirt
Steak(which I love!), ate that cause I was hungry and wanted to try
it. Came home again after 7:30 and made some more steak--it was good.
Cup of LC Milk. But I filled up quickly.

You really need to eat vegetables. That is where you should be getting
most of your carbs from. Tomatos, onions, peppers, these add flavor and
variety, as well as increase your carb count fairly easily.

I actually had green beans and cauliflower--that's where 7 of my 14
carbs did come from. I should have made some salad but this was not a
very hungry day for me. Didn't start eating until 1:30 in the
afternoon and was in a rush then.

I might get hungry for a small snack by 10-10:30 (usually it is
something very small - a hard boiled egg, a Wasa cracker with
something on it, jello or 1/2 cup LC ice cream, pork rinds, celery &
dip). Sometimes I'll use the carb gap to have a carby treat-like half
a PB&J sandwich, the LC ice cream.

A small salad with the above named veggies would up your carb level
quite a bit without making you gorge yourself, and keep your calories
fairly low too.
Today is definitely not a day to worry about gorging...simply not
hungry enough.

Salads are typically my lunches and sometimes a side with dinner. For
instance, I will be making a cobb-style salad with avocado(have
avocados to use up). Although I was thinking of making a breakfast
frittata(with veggies) as a brunch thing for Sunday (using spaghetti
squash instead of potato in the frittata).

I tried using a few chunks of canteloupe as a treat but I put on 2.5
pounds in two days of eating canteloupe--weird I can eat a lot of cals
and lose weight but 2 oz. of canteloupe in a day and I'm bouncing up
more than a pound a day. Must have to do with the structure of the
sugars in the canteloupe.

It's called fructose, and it puts glycogen in the liver rather than in
the muscles.

Maybe triggers restock of glycogen stores.

Most assuredly. *All* carbohydrate does.

Yes, but I am talking there was a major difference eating canteloupe
versus every other carb I eaten. Here's four days in a row

2 oz. canteloupe (4-5 small chunks), 2200 cals/day = gained 1 pound
2 oz. canteloupe again, 2500 cals/day = gained 1.4 pounds
no canteloupe, 3450 cals/day = lost 0.9 pounds
no canteloupe, 2750 cals/day = lost 0.3 pounds

BTW My activity levels the four days were about the same. I was home
all four days. I did laundry on the first day-the only noticeable
exception.

So I ate 4 oz of canteloupe, 9.2 grams of net carbs and gained 2.4
pounds! In nine weeks these are the only two days I have had such
significant gains. Canteloupe was the only thing that I ate that day
that I haven't eaten before or after those days. For me, it certainly
seems, that canteloupe triggered water gain. Whether retaining water
or rebuilding glycogen stores--and such dramatic rebuilding has not
occurred again or before. Even a week later when I ate 43 carbs in a
day I still lost weight--no detectable glycogen restock.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/318/Mar-315/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004

DigitalVinyl wrote:
:: I'm in OWL and still looking for my CCLL.
::
:: Just wondering what people do on days when your carbs are very low.
::
:: Do you try to bring your carbs up by eating something carby before
:: end of day??
::
:: I especially wonder if I should do this since I'm trying to find my
:: CCLL.
::
::
:: Today my carbs are 14.1, calories 1417 (318 lb male) and it's 9:30 at
:: night. My daily carb limit is 35 for this week.

It's good that you're following the plan and finding your CCLL....

However, if you can get by -- without getting crazy -- on so few calories,
then I suspect you don't really need to worry about a CCLL for a while -- to
lose weight. Just make sure you really eating your veggies. From the
sounds of it, you aren't.

::
:: Today was very busy-wasn't hungry in the morning, grabbed some
:: pepperoni&cheese as a snack, brought home some Loin Tip Steak (still
:: not sure what cut that is, bought at Costco)--very similar to SKirt
:: Steak(which I love!), ate that cause I was hungry and wanted to try
:: it. Came home again after 7:30 and made some more steak--it was good.
:: Cup of LC Milk. But I filled up quickly.

Steak, LC Milk and no veggies?

::
::
:: I might get hungry for a small snack by 10-10:30 (usually it is
:: something very small - a hard boiled egg, a Wasa cracker with
:: something on it, jello or 1/2 cup LC ice cream, pork rinds, celery &
:: dip). Sometimes I'll use the carb gap to have a carby treat-like half
:: a PB&J sandwich, the LC ice cream.
::

****...you're talking LC ice cream, milk, crackers, but no VEGGIES (I see
where you mentioned celery, but that sounds too brief to me)?

:: I tried using a few chunks of canteloupe as a treat but I put on 2.5
:: pounds in two days of eating canteloupe--weird I can eat a lot of
:: cals and lose weight but 2 oz. of canteloupe in a day and I'm
:: bouncing up more than a pound a day. Must have to do with the
:: structure of the sugars in the canteloupe. Maybe triggers restock of
:: glycogen stores. Later on i'm going to experiment again with
:: canteloupe and see if those results recurr.

Try eating a ****load of broccoli florets and/or caulifower. Spinach..

Come on DV...be a good LCer and eat your veggies. Keeping carbs & cals low
is great and all, but you need those veggies. Else your pooping will get
messed up and we'll be hearing about that!

::
::
:: DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
:: 350/319/Mar-315/200
:: Atkins since Jan 12, 2004

DigitalVinyl wrote:
:: "revek" wrote:
::
::: DigitalVinyl burbled across the ether:
:::: I'm in OWL and still looking for my CCLL.
::::
:::: Just wondering what people do on days when your carbs are very low.
::::
:::: Do you try to bring your carbs up by eating something carby before
:::: end of day??
:::
::: No. I don't force things like that. Trying will drive you crazy.
::: Just accept that there will be days when you're over, and days when
::: you're under. So long as the weekly/monthly averages are where you
::: want to be, it will work out.
:::
:::: I especially wonder if I should do this since I'm trying to find my
:::: CCLL.
:::
::: Just keep an eye on it. Weekly averages are easier to work with for
::: finding ccll.
:::
:::: Today my carbs are 14.1, calories 1417 (318 lb male) and it's 9:30
:::: at night. My daily carb limit is 35 for this week.
:::
::: If you really worry, try eating something with lots of fiber in it.
::: At least it will help keep your plumbing in tiptop shape.
:::
:::: Today was very busy-wasn't hungry in the morning, grabbed some
:::: pepperoni&cheese as a snack, brought home some Loin Tip Steak
:::: (still not sure what cut that is, bought at Costco)--very similar
:::: to SKirt Steak(which I love!), ate that cause I was hungry and
:::: wanted to try it. Came home again after 7:30 and made some more
:::: steak--it was good. Cup of LC Milk. But I filled up quickly.
:::
::: You really need to eat vegetables. That is where you should be
::: getting most of your carbs from. Tomatos, onions, peppers, these
::: add flavor and variety, as well as increase your carb count fairly
::: easily.
::
:: I actually had green beans and cauliflower--that's where 7 of my 14
:: carbs did come from. I should have made some salad but this was not a
:: very hungry day for me. Didn't start eating until 1:30 in the
:: afternoon and was in a rush then.
::
:::: I might get hungry for a small snack by 10-10:30 (usually it is
:::: something very small - a hard boiled egg, a Wasa cracker with
:::: something on it, jello or 1/2 cup LC ice cream, pork rinds, celery
:::: & dip). Sometimes I'll use the carb gap to have a carby treat-like
:::: half a PB&J sandwich, the LC ice cream.
:::
::: A small salad with the above named veggies would up your carb level
::: quite a bit without making you gorge yourself, and keep your
::: calories fairly low too.
:: Today is definitely not a day to worry about gorging...simply not
:: hungry enough.
::
:: Salads are typically my lunches and sometimes a side with dinner. For
:: instance, I will be making a cobb-style salad with avocado(have
:: avocados to use up). Although I was thinking of making a breakfast
:: frittata(with veggies) as a brunch thing for Sunday (using spaghetti
:: squash instead of potato in the frittata).
::
:::: I tried using a few chunks of canteloupe as a treat but I put on
:::: 2.5 pounds in two days of eating canteloupe--weird I can eat a lot
:::: of cals and lose weight but 2 oz. of canteloupe in a day and I'm
:::: bouncing up more than a pound a day. Must have to do with the
:::: structure of the sugars in the canteloupe.
:::
::: It's called fructose, and it puts glycogen in the liver rather than
::: in the muscles.
:::
:::: Maybe triggers restock of glycogen stores.
:::
::: Most assuredly. *All* carbohydrate does.
::
:: Yes, but I am talking there was a major difference eating canteloupe
:: versus every other carb I eaten. Here's four days in a row
::
:: 2 oz. canteloupe (4-5 small chunks), 2200 cals/day = gained 1 pound
:: 2 oz. canteloupe again, 2500 cals/day = gained 1.4 pounds
:: no canteloupe, 3450 cals/day = lost 0.9 pounds
:: no canteloupe, 2750 cals/day = lost 0.3 pounds
::

Interesting....

Fructose causes refill of liver glycogen.


:: BTW My activity levels the four days were about the same. I was home
:: all four days. I did laundry on the first day-the only noticeable
:: exception.

Are you getting any real exercise. I note that you do seem to be eating
your veggies...I wish you had said so before....

::
:: So I ate 4 oz of canteloupe, 9.2 grams of net carbs and gained 2.4
:: pounds! In nine weeks these are the only two days I have had such
:: significant gains. Canteloupe was the only thing that I ate that day
:: that I haven't eaten before or after those days. For me, it certainly
:: seems, that canteloupe triggered water gain. Whether retaining water
:: or rebuilding glycogen stores--and such dramatic rebuilding has not
:: occurred again or before. Even a week later when I ate 43 carbs in a
:: day I still lost weight--no detectable glycogen restock.

Well, so you know that canteloupe causes water gain....don't sweat it for a
minute...you'll likely still losing fat, especially when you keep kcals
low....


::
:: DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
:: 350/318/Mar-315/200
:: Atkins since Jan 12, 2004

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

DigitalVinyl wrote:
:: I'm in OWL and still looking for my CCLL.
::
:: Just wondering what people do on days when your carbs are very low.
::
:: Do you try to bring your carbs up by eating something carby before
:: end of day??
::
:: I especially wonder if I should do this since I'm trying to find my
:: CCLL.
::
::
:: Today my carbs are 14.1, calories 1417 (318 lb male) and it's 9:30 at
:: night. My daily carb limit is 35 for this week.

It's good that you're following the plan and finding your CCLL....
Well I want to know what it is BEFORE I spend the next year or two in
OWL/Induction. Once I know what my number is now, I'll choose how low
I'll stay for OWL.

However, if you can get by -- without getting crazy -- on so few calories,
then I suspect you don't really need to worry about a CCLL for a while -- to
lose weight. Just make sure you really eating your veggies. From the
sounds of it, you aren't.

If I plan my meals out I eat veggies. If I'm running around I tend not
to--always been one to focus on meats more, always. I also skip meals
when I'm busy. I just forget to eat. Past few days have been busy
hence skipping the greens too much. I also just went food shopping
today. Tonight and tomrrow will be much better. However, again, it is
is almost 5PM, not hungry and only 10 carbs/1100 cals so far. Tonight
I'm going to make a big vegetable frittata. I like eating it cold.
This way I have something quick for breakfast or lunch for a few days.
I'm also thinking I should prep little salads to eat when I'm rushed.


:: Today was very busy-wasn't hungry in the morning, grabbed some
:: pepperoni&cheese as a snack, brought home some Loin Tip Steak (still
:: not sure what cut that is, bought at Costco)--very similar to SKirt
:: Steak(which I love!), ate that cause I was hungry and wanted to try
:: it. Came home again after 7:30 and made some more steak--it was good.
:: Cup of LC Milk. But I filled up quickly.

Steak, LC Milk and no veggies?
Yeah--that's how i tended to eat. I would cycle through meat-heavy
meals, then eat lots of veggies when I was in the mood, especially
after I started growing them myself last year.

:: I might get hungry for a small snack by 10-10:30 (usually it is
:: something very small - a hard boiled egg, a Wasa cracker with
:: something on it, jello or 1/2 cup LC ice cream, pork rinds, celery &
:: dip). Sometimes I'll use the carb gap to have a carby treat-like half
:: a PB&J sandwich, the LC ice cream.
::

****...you're talking LC ice cream, milk, crackers, but no VEGGIES (I see
where you mentioned celery, but that sounds too brief to me)?

My snacks (non-meals) typically aren't veggies. coldcut & cheese,
deviled eggs, macadamia nuts are my most common snacks. They are also
very small, 1-2 oz. of food and don't take any prep time(i make 6
deviled eggs at a time). A cold cup of the LC milk is very appealing
as a simple "snack". Unless I have some dip or tuna salad then I use
celery sticks with that. During the spring/summer I will likely snack
on small tomatoes, jalapenos & snap peas right from the garden. (fresh
garden veggies will be a challenge this summer--I've already added
more low-carb choices.)

:: I tried using a few chunks of canteloupe as a treat but I put on 2.5
:: pounds in two days of eating canteloupe--weird I can eat a lot of
:: cals and lose weight but 2 oz. of canteloupe in a day and I'm
:: bouncing up more than a pound a day. Must have to do with the
:: structure of the sugars in the canteloupe. Maybe triggers restock of
:: glycogen stores. Later on i'm going to experiment again with
:: canteloupe and see if those results recurr.

Try eating a ****load of broccoli florets and/or caulifower. Spinach..
All stuff I do eat, still training myself to think of them more.

Come on DV...be a good LCer and eat your veggies. Keeping carbs & cals low
is great and all, but you need those veggies. Else your pooping will get
messed up and we'll be hearing about that!
That would be a bit of unnecessary sharing!

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/318/Mar-315/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004

DigitalVinyl wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: DigitalVinyl wrote:
::::: I'm in OWL and still looking for my CCLL.
:::::
::::: Just wondering what people do on days when your carbs are very
::::: low.
:::::
::::: Do you try to bring your carbs up by eating something carby before
::::: end of day??
:::::
::::: I especially wonder if I should do this since I'm trying to find
::::: my CCLL.
:::::
:::::
::::: Today my carbs are 14.1, calories 1417 (318 lb male) and it's
::::: 9:30 at night. My daily carb limit is 35 for this week.
:::
::: It's good that you're following the plan and finding your CCLL....
:: Well I want to know what it is BEFORE I spend the next year or two in
:: OWL/Induction. Once I know what my number is now, I'll choose how low
:: I'll stay for OWL.

You know...I've lost 127 lbs so far and I never found my CCLL....maybe I
should go back and start over


::
::: However, if you can get by -- without getting crazy -- on so few
::: calories, then I suspect you don't really need to worry about a
::: CCLL for a while -- to lose weight. Just make sure you really
::: eating your veggies. From the sounds of it, you aren't.
::
:: If I plan my meals out I eat veggies. If I'm running around I tend
:: not to--always been one to focus on meats more, always. I also skip
:: meals
:: when I'm busy. I just forget to eat. Past few days have been busy
:: hence skipping the greens too much. I also just went food shopping
:: today. Tonight and tomrrow will be much better. However, again, it is
:: is almost 5PM, not hungry and only 10 carbs/1100 cals so far. Tonight
:: I'm going to make a big vegetable frittata. I like eating it cold.
:: This way I have something quick for breakfast or lunch for a few
:: days.
:: I'm also thinking I should prep little salads to eat when I'm rushed.

Yeah, or buy precut broccoli and cauliflower....or celery sticks....then
just grab a bunch & put in a baggie....zip, zoom, and fly

::
::
::::: Today was very busy-wasn't hungry in the morning, grabbed some
::::: pepperoni&cheese as a snack, brought home some Loin Tip Steak
::::: (still
::::: not sure what cut that is, bought at Costco)--very similar to
::::: SKirt Steak(which I love!), ate that cause I was hungry and
::::: wanted to try
::::: it. Came home again after 7:30 and made some more steak--it was
::::: good. Cup of LC Milk. But I filled up quickly.
:::
::: Steak, LC Milk and no veggies?
:: Yeah--that's how i tended to eat. I would cycle through meat-heavy
:: meals, then eat lots of veggies when I was in the mood, especially
:: after I started growing them myself last year.

Yeah, I hear ya. After i wrote this, I read another post of your that had
more info...

::
::::: I might get hungry for a small snack by 10-10:30 (usually it is
::::: something very small - a hard boiled egg, a Wasa cracker with
::::: something on it, jello or 1/2 cup LC ice cream, pork rinds,
::::: celery & dip). Sometimes I'll use the carb gap to have a carby
::::: treat-like half
::::: a PB&J sandwich, the LC ice cream.
:::::
:::
::: ****...you're talking LC ice cream, milk, crackers, but no VEGGIES
::: (I see where you mentioned celery, but that sounds too brief to me)?
::
:: My snacks (non-meals) typically aren't veggies. coldcut & cheese,
:: deviled eggs, macadamia nuts are my most common snacks. They are
:: also
:: very small, 1-2 oz. of food and don't take any prep time(i make 6
:: deviled eggs at a time). A cold cup of the LC milk is very appealing
:: as a simple "snack". Unless I have some dip or tuna salad then I use
:: celery sticks with that. During the spring/summer I will likely snack
:: on small tomatoes, jalapenos & snap peas right from the garden.
:: (fresh garden veggies will be a challenge this summer--I've already
:: added
:: more low-carb choices.)
::
::::: I tried using a few chunks of canteloupe as a treat but I put on
::::: 2.5 pounds in two days of eating canteloupe--weird I can eat a
::::: lot of
::::: cals and lose weight but 2 oz. of canteloupe in a day and I'm
::::: bouncing up more than a pound a day. Must have to do with the
::::: structure of the sugars in the canteloupe. Maybe triggers restock
::::: of glycogen stores. Later on i'm going to experiment again with
::::: canteloupe and see if those results recurr.
:::
::: Try eating a ****load of broccoli florets and/or caulifower.
::: Spinach..
:: All stuff I do eat, still training myself to think of them more.

I got ya...it's a process...sounds like you're doing just fine....

::
::: Come on DV...be a good LCer and eat your veggies. Keeping carbs &
::: cals low is great and all, but you need those veggies. Else your
::: pooping will get messed up and we'll be hearing about that!
:: That would be a bit of unnecessary sharing!

Well, many do!

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

DigitalVinyl wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: DigitalVinyl wrote:
::::: I'm in OWL and still looking for my CCLL.
:::::
::::: Just wondering what people do on days when your carbs are very
::::: low.
:::::
::::: Do you try to bring your carbs up by eating something carby before
::::: end of day??
:::::
::::: I especially wonder if I should do this since I'm trying to find
::::: my CCLL.
:::::
:::::
::::: Today my carbs are 14.1, calories 1417 (318 lb male) and it's
::::: 9:30 at night. My daily carb limit is 35 for this week.
:::
::: It's good that you're following the plan and finding your CCLL....
:: Well I want to know what it is BEFORE I spend the next year or two in
:: OWL/Induction. Once I know what my number is now, I'll choose how low
:: I'll stay for OWL.

You know...I've lost 127 lbs so far and I never found my CCLL....maybe I
should go back and start over

I'm really curious if your CCLL/CCLM changes over time. beyond changes
in phsycial activity which will raise lower these supposedly. I was
thinking for Christmas time of going into maintenance, at whatever
weight I am then. Finding my CCLM and defining a range. This would
allow more relaxed holidays. Don't have to worry as much going to
parties, dinners, visiting families, relatives. Holidays can be very
stressful in my family and even depressing! But I'm not sure if this
would make it easier or harder. But partially just to see what my
maintenance is. Then restart using Induction and resume OWL. Its an
idea and I won't know if I'll try it till I get there. It's likely I
won't enter "permanent" maintenance likely till almost 2006. I'm
curious if my carb maintenance levels would differ at different
weights.

This has been a slight confusion for me lately. The whole carb
level-ketosis talk. Too many carbs kicks you out of "ketosis" actually
is confusing me now. Partially because I don't think ketosis is a
state of being but a process that happens in everyone's body. To show
where my head is lost...

for example:

if 1500 cals/day with 20 carbs = 0.25 lbs lost per day
then 1500 cals/day with 200 carbs = ?.?? lbs lost per day

0.25 lbs-- the same, right.

The difference would be ...nothing ...maybe less adipose fat burned??
why? I would still be burning the 1500 cals consumed (fat,carbs, &
protein) and then a little more. The only thing I can deduce is that
the caloric shortage may not come exclusively out of fat, but may also
come from lean tissue. That would jive with studies mentioned in
DANDR. The reason why low-carb focuses on fat loss where other caloric
restictive diets lose fat & lean muscle tissue doesn't seem well
explained--and maybe still not medically understood/proven.

The fact that lowcarb has appetite supression and craving control as
benefits is very understood. Also people find other medical conditions
clear up--also totally sold on these concepts.






DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/318/Mar-315/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004

Roger Zoul wrote:
DigitalVinyl wrote:
"Roger Zoul" wrote:


You know...I've lost 127 lbs so far and I never found my
CCLL....maybe I should go back and start over



Hi Roger, that's great. What weight did you start out at, and how long did
it take you to lose it?
Monica
--
______________________________________
Started 01/20/04
362/330.6/250
______________________________________
"First do no harm."
- Hippocrates


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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TavliGal wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::: DigitalVinyl wrote:
:::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::::::
::::
:::: You know...I've lost 127 lbs so far and I never found my
:::: CCLL....maybe I should go back and start over
::::
::::
::
:: Hi Roger, that's great. What weight did you start out at, and how
:: long did it take you to lose it?
:: Monica

Started at 367 in October 2001...now at 240...still working on it...

DigitalVinyl wrote in message . ..

This has been a slight confusion for me lately. The whole carb
level-ketosis talk. Too many carbs kicks you out of "ketosis" actually
is confusing me now. Partially because I don't think ketosis is a
state of being but a process that happens in everyone's body. To show
where my head is lost...

for example:

if 1500 cals/day with 20 carbs = 0.25 lbs lost per day
then 1500 cals/day with 200 carbs = ?.?? lbs lost per day

0.25 lbs-- the same, right.

The difference would be ...nothing ...maybe less adipose fat burned??
why? I would still be burning the 1500 cals consumed (fat,carbs, &
protein) and then a little more. The only thing I can deduce is that
the caloric shortage may not come exclusively out of fat, but may also
come from lean tissue. That would jive with studies mentioned in
DANDR. The reason why low-carb focuses on fat loss where other caloric
restictive diets lose fat & lean muscle tissue doesn't seem well
explained--and maybe still not medically understood/proven.

It's not *just* a matter of calories though. A cord of a particular
type of wood has a certain amount of calories, but how much heat is
produced depends on how it's burned. Some stoves are more efficient
than others.

Similarly, the human body varies in what it does with fuel. If you're
running on a primarily insulin-moderated biochemistry, it's easier to
store fat, whereas a primarily glucagon-moderated biochemistry burns
fat.

It's not that you can't burn fat with high insulin or store fat with
high glucagon, it's that it's not as efficient. It's harder to put on
fat with a high glucagon level, but not impossible. And it's harder
to lose fat with a lot of insulin, but again not impossible.

Low-carb reduces insulin levels an icnrease glucagon levels, making
losing weight easier, but not inevitable. It's the difference between
going downhill versus going uphill... downhill is easier, but you
still have to be going in the right direciton if you want to get to
your goal.

Both hormones are there all the time, and all the biochemistry is
happenning all the time. The point is which is in excess, which is
the overall way the body runs. It's just like sex hormones. Both
males and females make both testosterone and estrogen, but there's a
*big* difference depending on which one predominates.

(jpatti) wrote:

DigitalVinyl wrote in message . ..

This has been a slight confusion for me lately. The whole carb
level-ketosis talk. Too many carbs kicks you out of "ketosis" actually
is confusing me now. Partially because I don't think ketosis is a
state of being but a process that happens in everyone's body. To show
where my head is lost...

for example:

if 1500 cals/day with 20 carbs = 0.25 lbs lost per day
then 1500 cals/day with 200 carbs = ?.?? lbs lost per day

0.25 lbs-- the same, right.

The difference would be ...nothing ...maybe less adipose fat burned??
why? I would still be burning the 1500 cals consumed (fat,carbs, &
protein) and then a little more. The only thing I can deduce is that
the caloric shortage may not come exclusively out of fat, but may also
come from lean tissue. That would jive with studies mentioned in
DANDR. The reason why low-carb focuses on fat loss where other caloric
restictive diets lose fat & lean muscle tissue doesn't seem well
explained--and maybe still not medically understood/proven.

It's not *just* a matter of calories though. A cord of a particular
type of wood has a certain amount of calories, but how much heat is
produced depends on how it's burned. Some stoves are more efficient
than others.

Similarly, the human body varies in what it does with fuel. If you're
running on a primarily insulin-moderated biochemistry, it's easier to
store fat, whereas a primarily glucagon-moderated biochemistry burns
fat.
That's what I was missing--glucagon, that is not a familiar term. JUst
did some reading and was definitely missing that. Glucagon is an
FMS(fat mobilizing substance), causes ketones to be released from
adipose tissue as well as triggers the liver to drop glycogen stores.
That was definitely a missing puzzle piece.

Some of my reading- can't recall if in Atkins or otherwise- said that
there is no hormone to counter insulin. Obviously that is untrue. If
an overrelease of insulin occurs and blood sugars drop too low,
glucagon would be released to bring blood sugar back up. Although they
were correct in saying that there is nothing to remove excess insulin
from the bloodstream except for it to soak up glucose.

Thanks.

It's not that you can't burn fat with high insulin or store fat with
high glucagon, it's that it's not as efficient. It's harder to put on
fat with a high glucagon level, but not impossible. And it's harder
to lose fat with a lot of insulin, but again not impossible.

Low-carb reduces insulin levels an icnrease glucagon levels, making
losing weight easier, but not inevitable. It's the difference between
going downhill versus going uphill... downhill is easier, but you
still have to be going in the right direciton if you want to get to
your goal.

Both hormones are there all the time, and all the biochemistry is
happenning all the time. The point is which is in excess, which is
the overall way the body runs. It's just like sex hormones. Both
males and females make both testosterone and estrogen, but there's a
*big* difference depending on which one predominates.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/318/Mar-315/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004