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#21
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"Ignoramus8743" wrote in message
... Maybe that is true, but that's not what the book says. It pretty much said that the winners' strategy, in their words, is to drop as much sugar and as much fat as possible. Yes, that was the traditionnal way of doing diets in the old days... That's actually what many generalists still advice nowadays in France. Drop sugars and fats, then each doctor adds his peculiar obsession (drop pasta, drop red meat, drop coffee, add vegetables, eat more breakfast...) to that framework. Though the summary seems to point to the fact that the diet itself was not really the important factor in the success or not of these dieters. |
#22
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"Ignoramus8743" wrote in message
... Maybe that is true, but that's not what the book says. It pretty much said that the winners' strategy, in their words, is to drop as much sugar and as much fat as possible. Yes, that was the traditionnal way of doing diets in the old days... That's actually what many generalists still advice nowadays in France. Drop sugars and fats, then each doctor adds his peculiar obsession (drop pasta, drop red meat, drop coffee, add vegetables, eat more breakfast...) to that framework. Though the summary seems to point to the fact that the diet itself was not really the important factor in the success or not of these dieters. |
#23
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"Ignoramus8743" wrote in message
... My personal opinion, is that what it points out, is the possibility that likely most of the interviewed persons did not have metabolic syndrome/diabetes. Well, people with diabete are still a minority, thankfully. I don't know how many obeses also have a metabolic syndrom, and how much of their obesity can be linked to it. You also have to consider that weight loss, at least for some people, can reduce the metabolic syndrom to such an extent that it is no longer a problem past the first few pounds. Even with diabete, weight loss is very effective for some. My FBG returned to high normal within a month of losing weight for instance. Right now, if I had not been tested before, I would pass most casual diabete screenings (A1c, FBG) without even registering as pre-diabetic. Of course, that would show on a GTT, but they're rarely used nowadays. It's quite possible that for some of these people with metabolical syndrom, rapid weight loss put them into a range where insulin resistance was low enough to allow maintainance. It's not that I think that metabolic disorder people cannot lose weight at all, but I don't think that a low fat diet is what would work for many of them. There is a whole world between no fat and no carb I still think these people could lose on a traditional diet (i.e. a well established cultural diet, not one designed by a doctor) with basic portion control. The integrist low fat diet (all fats=bad, less than 25% calories from fats) is so abnormal that it's a wonder people actually managed to lose on it (and stay healthy). Now, I know, that you consider yourself a counterexample, a diabetic who became obese because of psychological issues that you are now addressing, but, I don't think that you are on a low fat diet. Indeed, my diet is getting closer to the traditionnal French diet, with a few exceptions (I should drink more wine ). It's certainly not low fat (I eat quite a lot of nuts lately, along with olive oil and walnut oil and some butter) and it's not high carb either. Some days are higher carbs than others too. Today was a rather high carb day for instance, but this might be linked to increased exercise yesterday. I just bought a cardiometer [tr?] to use bio-feedback for meditation, but I also use it for exercising. As a result, I have added bursts of sprinting to my power-walking (heart going at 140bpm on average [75% max], peaks at 167 [90% max]), for one hour yesterday and half an hour today. This certainly felt great, but I did some serious sweating as a result, and this did raise hunger quite a bit, and craving for carbs (I guess glycogen stores were quite empty). But I don't really exercise with the intent to lose weight, the goal is to improve my insulin resistance. I would actually say I'm a psychological obese who got diabetic because of the excess weight (and total sedentarity during the past few years). Diabete probably helped me put on weight so quickly in the past years, but only because I was eating an insane amount of food. The fact that my FBG and A1c are going down through pure weight loss and exercise and not too much diet seems to hint to that. Likewise, the fact that I have experienced little reactive hypoglycemia (except when I was using Prandin), and that what hypoglycemia I have experienced made me nauseous, make it difficult for me to blame the overeating on it. I seem to lose weight about as easily as I put it on, it's really totally symetric there. That's also something I share with my father, and maybe my grandfather on my mother's side. Men in the familly (both sides) also build muscles as easily (people often think wrongly that my father is into bodybuilding), and it seems I have inherited that trait (I was always quite muscular, even under the fat). So, it's really a matter of pushing the body in the right direction, and being so sedentary certainly didn't push it towards building muscles rather than fat. |
#24
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Ignoramus5536 wrote:
|| || Speaking of hypo... My MIL had a serious hypo attack at BG of 70 || (sic). || || To me, this is a quite normal level these days. I would experience || perhaps very slight shakiness, but would feel quite well otherwise. If you do some reading on hypo, you'll discover that hypo is not merely a low BG reading...they symptoms can be brought on by the rate that BG levels fall, so the BG doesn't even need to be that low for one to experience hypo. |
#25
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Ignoramus5536 wrote:
|| || Speaking of hypo... My MIL had a serious hypo attack at BG of 70 || (sic). || || To me, this is a quite normal level these days. I would experience || perhaps very slight shakiness, but would feel quite well otherwise. If you do some reading on hypo, you'll discover that hypo is not merely a low BG reading...they symptoms can be brought on by the rate that BG levels fall, so the BG doesn't even need to be that low for one to experience hypo. |
#26
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"Ignoramus5536" wrote in message
... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in620811.shtml ``Overall, the prevalence of metabolic syndrome was 38.7 percent in moderately obese subjects and 49.7 percent in severely obese subjects.'' Thanks for the link. Though it's a study on young obesity, which is a whole matter in itself. And then, it's an egg and chicken problem. Is the metabolic syndrom the source of the obesity, or it is a consequence? Or is it just a cycle that feeds on itself once it is started. Yes, it is great that you could at least stop your diabetes, I think that you are still pretty young. I'm 32. I'm still waiting a bit before calling it "stopped", my nutritionist is a lot more optimistic than I am actually. After the ophtalmologist, I'm still thinking about checking with a podologist (though my feet have never been as smooth and healthy looking as they are now - even hairs are growing ) and a cardiologist. Though I will wait on the later until I get a bit more control of my white coat syndrom, using the cardiometer as a way to monitor my relaxation technics seem to work so far (I can drop my heart rate from 80 to sligthtly bellow 60 with a little focus, very nice effect on stress when doing job interviews and the like). I regret that I did not do better blood sugar testing prior to starting to lose weight, but my suspicion is that my blood sugar control was not great, despite decent morning numbers. Exactly. I wonder how many people were diabetic as obese, and just dropped off the detection threshold from plain weight loss... That makes sense. Diabetes, it appears, is in fact several diseases that may have different etiologies. Yours may be different than what happens to older people. Yes, some people in alt.support.diabete report that weight loss did not do much for them. But others point that it did an amazing job at improving their control. The later also seem to tolerate carbs better. There is probably a link between where loss of control happens the most, fasting or post prandial. So, there are at least two different patterns. I guess it depends on how much it's insulin resistance related (and how much of it is weight related vs purely genetic) or insulin deficiency related. The annoying part is that so many doctors and researchers seem clueless about part of the diabetic population. Most of the studies seem to be made on people with insanely high A1c, who are old, and who were detected at a later stage of the disease (many with complications already). Speaking of hypo... My MIL had a serious hypo attack at BG of 70 (sic). To me, this is a quite normal level these days. I would experience perhaps very slight shakiness, but would feel quite well otherwise. I'm still high normal myself. Hopefully, my FBG will start going down as I keep losing weight (I'm still halfway after all). Or maybe some people just tend to have a higher homeostatic glucose setting, either genetically or as an adaptation (it seems some professional racing cyclists are into the high normal range for instance, probably as an adaptation to the sport - or high drug usage). Are you eating absolutely all kinds of food? Or did you give up some foods completely? Well, there is still some food I don't like, so obviously I don't eat it. Other than that, I have not dared eating candies again yet, though I do eat chocolate and some sweet specialties (like marzipan). I also have given up on trans fats as much as possible, but this doesn't really ban whole kinds of food, just some brands (i.e., I eat whole butter cakes rather than hydrogenated oils cakes). Cutting trans fats seems to have helped my LDL results a lot, so it's a small price to pay. Besides, butter cakes taste better. Next month, I will be following a training course that is hosted in a high school. So, back to high school after 14 years away from it. This means getting school meals for lunch. That's certainly going to be a very enlightening experience. I have noticed they have hamburger+French fries once a week (though the alternative was ratatouille and chicken with tarragon), something that was unthinkable when I was a student. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the young eats at school... |
#27
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"Ignoramus5536" wrote in message
... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in620811.shtml ``Overall, the prevalence of metabolic syndrome was 38.7 percent in moderately obese subjects and 49.7 percent in severely obese subjects.'' Thanks for the link. Though it's a study on young obesity, which is a whole matter in itself. And then, it's an egg and chicken problem. Is the metabolic syndrom the source of the obesity, or it is a consequence? Or is it just a cycle that feeds on itself once it is started. Yes, it is great that you could at least stop your diabetes, I think that you are still pretty young. I'm 32. I'm still waiting a bit before calling it "stopped", my nutritionist is a lot more optimistic than I am actually. After the ophtalmologist, I'm still thinking about checking with a podologist (though my feet have never been as smooth and healthy looking as they are now - even hairs are growing ) and a cardiologist. Though I will wait on the later until I get a bit more control of my white coat syndrom, using the cardiometer as a way to monitor my relaxation technics seem to work so far (I can drop my heart rate from 80 to sligthtly bellow 60 with a little focus, very nice effect on stress when doing job interviews and the like). I regret that I did not do better blood sugar testing prior to starting to lose weight, but my suspicion is that my blood sugar control was not great, despite decent morning numbers. Exactly. I wonder how many people were diabetic as obese, and just dropped off the detection threshold from plain weight loss... That makes sense. Diabetes, it appears, is in fact several diseases that may have different etiologies. Yours may be different than what happens to older people. Yes, some people in alt.support.diabete report that weight loss did not do much for them. But others point that it did an amazing job at improving their control. The later also seem to tolerate carbs better. There is probably a link between where loss of control happens the most, fasting or post prandial. So, there are at least two different patterns. I guess it depends on how much it's insulin resistance related (and how much of it is weight related vs purely genetic) or insulin deficiency related. The annoying part is that so many doctors and researchers seem clueless about part of the diabetic population. Most of the studies seem to be made on people with insanely high A1c, who are old, and who were detected at a later stage of the disease (many with complications already). Speaking of hypo... My MIL had a serious hypo attack at BG of 70 (sic). To me, this is a quite normal level these days. I would experience perhaps very slight shakiness, but would feel quite well otherwise. I'm still high normal myself. Hopefully, my FBG will start going down as I keep losing weight (I'm still halfway after all). Or maybe some people just tend to have a higher homeostatic glucose setting, either genetically or as an adaptation (it seems some professional racing cyclists are into the high normal range for instance, probably as an adaptation to the sport - or high drug usage). Are you eating absolutely all kinds of food? Or did you give up some foods completely? Well, there is still some food I don't like, so obviously I don't eat it. Other than that, I have not dared eating candies again yet, though I do eat chocolate and some sweet specialties (like marzipan). I also have given up on trans fats as much as possible, but this doesn't really ban whole kinds of food, just some brands (i.e., I eat whole butter cakes rather than hydrogenated oils cakes). Cutting trans fats seems to have helped my LDL results a lot, so it's a small price to pay. Besides, butter cakes taste better. Next month, I will be following a training course that is hosted in a high school. So, back to high school after 14 years away from it. This means getting school meals for lunch. That's certainly going to be a very enlightening experience. I have noticed they have hamburger+French fries once a week (though the alternative was ratatouille and chicken with tarragon), something that was unthinkable when I was a student. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the young eats at school... |
#28
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"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
... If you do some reading on hypo, you'll discover that hypo is not merely a low BG reading...they symptoms can be brought on by the rate that BG levels fall, so the BG doesn't even need to be that low for one to experience hypo. That was typical when taking Prandin. At some point, I would experience crash hypos, though I'm certain my levels where not trully hypoglycemic. I read some diabetic report that they have felt some hypo symptoms when dropping from hyperglycemic range to still hyperglycemic or high normal (for instance, dropping from 200 to 110 very quickly). I don't know if transitionnal hypos are felt with the full range of symptoms (both somatic and neuro) or only a subset (only somatic would make sense)... |
#29
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Lictor wrote:
|| "Roger Zoul" wrote in message || ... ||| If you do some reading on hypo, you'll discover that hypo is not ||| merely a low BG reading...they symptoms can be brought on by the ||| rate that BG levels fall, so the BG doesn't even need to be that ||| low for one to experience hypo. || || That was typical when taking Prandin. At some point, I would || experience crash hypos, though I'm certain my levels where not || trully hypoglycemic. I read some diabetic report that they have felt || some hypo symptoms when dropping from hyperglycemic range to still || hyperglycemic or high normal (for instance, dropping from 200 to 110 || very quickly). Right, exactly. || I don't know if transitionnal hypos are felt with the full range of || symptoms (both somatic and neuro) or only a subset (only somatic || would make sense)... A lot about hypo is poorly understood. All I know if that if I go ride 60+ miles on LC, I'll have such a bad hypo that I can barely function. |
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