KimKins or AtSill by Kimmer

2Phat wrote:
:: Hollywood. No I'm not going to poop on anything. One thing if
:: nothing else is people come here and else where to learn and find
:: what is best for them.
::
:: What I do find amusing is the fact that HCG is a hormone and an
:: overdose would mean, you are very, very, very, very, pregnant.
:: Insulin is a hormone and an overdose would put you in a comma.
:: Hummm, HCG is a tad safer in that regard.

And without insulin the diabetic would die. Can the same be said for HCG?

::
:: With that, I can only research what is available to me and it does
:: make me comfortable that doctors do use it for weight lose around
:: the world so it is not a far fetched idea and it has been proven to
:: work. Albeit, it could very well be the low calorie diet. That is
:: a sticky point right now.
::
:: However, I am committed to giving K/E a try, which I believe is a
:: Atkins/Stillmin hybrid and I can live with that experiment. As I've
:: done both before.
::
:: What I'm out to prove to myself if nothing else is I AM not BROKEN.
:: Meaning, I can lose more then 2 lbs a month. In a post up thread, I
:: have done just that. I have lost 5 lbs from Monday to Present day.
:: Okay. Great for me. What I have also thought about during this
:: time is maybe my old ratios of P/F/C is not longer valid for me at
:: this point in my life, yes due to AGE and the ever present hormone
:: change we women must face.
::
:: What lead me to HCG was my own frustrations with my lose, diet and
:: exercise. My binge eating because of the frustrations then my
:: resolve to stick it out, then frustration again at the scale and
:: tape measure, binge eating. Very viscous cycle I was on and very
:: destructive to my own moral and self esteem. Especially with the
:: exercise routine I had. Max effort for little to no result.
::
:: Maybe all I need was to get back to basics and for the time being
:: disregarding my created low carb plan that worked well. Maybe I
:: needed to really clean out my system or at least my liver of
:: glycogen. Maybe at this point, age and time, basic induction will
:: work best for a better weight lose that can keep me focused and
:: reaching for my goal.
::
:: And to all who may think I'm trying to lose 60 pounds in 10 days,
:: that is not the case. I'll be happy with 5-10 pounds a month if I'm
:: putting forth max effort. That to me equals the risk/rewards ratio.
:: IF some say that's unrealistic then that is there reality not mine.
::

It's your reality if you can't achieve that weight loss. Being willing to
starve yourself to achieve rapid loss is just silly and unwise. You won't
find anyone in the medical profession who'll support your plan, because it's
very unrealistic.

You're repeatedly setting yourself up. You binge when you get frustrated,
but you get frustrated because you want a quick solution to a long-term
problem. You lost fast before but regained the weight, because you
abandoned what got you there which was unrealistic weight loss. Hence, you
had no choice but to abandon it because it was very unrealistic.

Your rapid weight loss before probably resulted in muscle loss too, which,
when combined with your increased age and post-baby body, as left you with a
somewhat lower metabolism. That's life, deal.

You're not the same person you were 10 years ago. If you were wise, you'd
continue with a reasonable plan that you could maintain long term that would
gradually let you achieve your weight goals. But since you're unwise,
you'll be unhappy with your lot in life and make up BS to explain away this
or that. You'll continue to be frustrated and you'll seek out whatever
fly-by-night thing that comes along.

Oh well....

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:50:40 -0400, Roger Zoul
wrote:

Bob in CT wrote:

::: at no point in any book does Dr. A suggest going wild with fat.
::: That's out of the ballpark.
::
:: What about the fat fast?

IIRC, the fat fast is calorie limited, so you're definitely not going
wild
with fat, you're just restricting protein and calories, as well as carbs.



Thanks, Roger. I've never tried a fat fast, although I remember the
subject being discussed in the Atkins book.

--
Bob in CT

And HCG over or under will not cause harm. My point.

Roger, I never lose muscle! Gez I posted this before. I had access to
regular fat analysis.

Medical profession never supported Atkins either, and they do support low
calorie diets. Have you not heard of medical supervised low calorie diets
before??

The only wise thing I can do for myself is to be myself and allow you to be
the nay sayer you are. To each his own and good luck with yourself!

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
2Phat wrote:
:: Hollywood. No I'm not going to poop on anything. One thing if
:: nothing else is people come here and else where to learn and find
:: what is best for them.
::
:: What I do find amusing is the fact that HCG is a hormone and an
:: overdose would mean, you are very, very, very, very, pregnant.
:: Insulin is a hormone and an overdose would put you in a comma.
:: Hummm, HCG is a tad safer in that regard.

And without insulin the diabetic would die. Can the same be said for HCG?

::
:: With that, I can only research what is available to me and it does
:: make me comfortable that doctors do use it for weight lose around
:: the world so it is not a far fetched idea and it has been proven to
:: work. Albeit, it could very well be the low calorie diet. That is
:: a sticky point right now.
::
:: However, I am committed to giving K/E a try, which I believe is a
:: Atkins/Stillmin hybrid and I can live with that experiment. As I've
:: done both before.
::
:: What I'm out to prove to myself if nothing else is I AM not BROKEN.
:: Meaning, I can lose more then 2 lbs a month. In a post up thread, I
:: have done just that. I have lost 5 lbs from Monday to Present day.
:: Okay. Great for me. What I have also thought about during this
:: time is maybe my old ratios of P/F/C is not longer valid for me at
:: this point in my life, yes due to AGE and the ever present hormone
:: change we women must face.
::
:: What lead me to HCG was my own frustrations with my lose, diet and
:: exercise. My binge eating because of the frustrations then my
:: resolve to stick it out, then frustration again at the scale and
:: tape measure, binge eating. Very viscous cycle I was on and very
:: destructive to my own moral and self esteem. Especially with the
:: exercise routine I had. Max effort for little to no result.
::
:: Maybe all I need was to get back to basics and for the time being
:: disregarding my created low carb plan that worked well. Maybe I
:: needed to really clean out my system or at least my liver of
:: glycogen. Maybe at this point, age and time, basic induction will
:: work best for a better weight lose that can keep me focused and
:: reaching for my goal.
::
:: And to all who may think I'm trying to lose 60 pounds in 10 days,
:: that is not the case. I'll be happy with 5-10 pounds a month if I'm
:: putting forth max effort. That to me equals the risk/rewards ratio.
:: IF some say that's unrealistic then that is there reality not mine.
::

It's your reality if you can't achieve that weight loss. Being willing to
starve yourself to achieve rapid loss is just silly and unwise. You won't
find anyone in the medical profession who'll support your plan, because
it's very unrealistic.

You're repeatedly setting yourself up. You binge when you get frustrated,
but you get frustrated because you want a quick solution to a long-term
problem. You lost fast before but regained the weight, because you
abandoned what got you there which was unrealistic weight loss. Hence,
you had no choice but to abandon it because it was very unrealistic.

Your rapid weight loss before probably resulted in muscle loss too, which,
when combined with your increased age and post-baby body, as left you with
a somewhat lower metabolism. That's life, deal.

You're not the same person you were 10 years ago. If you were wise, you'd
continue with a reasonable plan that you could maintain long term that
would gradually let you achieve your weight goals. But since you're
unwise, you'll be unhappy with your lot in life and make up BS to explain
away this or that. You'll continue to be frustrated and you'll seek out
whatever fly-by-night thing that comes along.

Oh well....

Also Roger, My metabolism is just fine since I have 1/2 my thyroid I get it
check out and know all thyroid levels (T1, 2, 3, 4 and my uptake levels and
adrenal levels as well and a few other hormonal levels) and have them tested
every 6 months.

You know I don't mind criticism but when you do not read prior posts, then
you make yourself out to be posting to read yourself in print.

Again, To each his own, you go your way and I'll do what I want to do.


"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
2Phat wrote:
:: Hollywood. No I'm not going to poop on anything. One thing if
:: nothing else is people come here and else where to learn and find
:: what is best for them.
::
:: What I do find amusing is the fact that HCG is a hormone and an
:: overdose would mean, you are very, very, very, very, pregnant.
:: Insulin is a hormone and an overdose would put you in a comma.
:: Hummm, HCG is a tad safer in that regard.

And without insulin the diabetic would die. Can the same be said for HCG?

::
:: With that, I can only research what is available to me and it does
:: make me comfortable that doctors do use it for weight lose around
:: the world so it is not a far fetched idea and it has been proven to
:: work. Albeit, it could very well be the low calorie diet. That is
:: a sticky point right now.
::
:: However, I am committed to giving K/E a try, which I believe is a
:: Atkins/Stillmin hybrid and I can live with that experiment. As I've
:: done both before.
::
:: What I'm out to prove to myself if nothing else is I AM not BROKEN.
:: Meaning, I can lose more then 2 lbs a month. In a post up thread, I
:: have done just that. I have lost 5 lbs from Monday to Present day.
:: Okay. Great for me. What I have also thought about during this
:: time is maybe my old ratios of P/F/C is not longer valid for me at
:: this point in my life, yes due to AGE and the ever present hormone
:: change we women must face.
::
:: What lead me to HCG was my own frustrations with my lose, diet and
:: exercise. My binge eating because of the frustrations then my
:: resolve to stick it out, then frustration again at the scale and
:: tape measure, binge eating. Very viscous cycle I was on and very
:: destructive to my own moral and self esteem. Especially with the
:: exercise routine I had. Max effort for little to no result.
::
:: Maybe all I need was to get back to basics and for the time being
:: disregarding my created low carb plan that worked well. Maybe I
:: needed to really clean out my system or at least my liver of
:: glycogen. Maybe at this point, age and time, basic induction will
:: work best for a better weight lose that can keep me focused and
:: reaching for my goal.
::
:: And to all who may think I'm trying to lose 60 pounds in 10 days,
:: that is not the case. I'll be happy with 5-10 pounds a month if I'm
:: putting forth max effort. That to me equals the risk/rewards ratio.
:: IF some say that's unrealistic then that is there reality not mine.
::

It's your reality if you can't achieve that weight loss. Being willing to
starve yourself to achieve rapid loss is just silly and unwise. You won't
find anyone in the medical profession who'll support your plan, because
it's very unrealistic.

You're repeatedly setting yourself up. You binge when you get frustrated,
but you get frustrated because you want a quick solution to a long-term
problem. You lost fast before but regained the weight, because you
abandoned what got you there which was unrealistic weight loss. Hence,
you had no choice but to abandon it because it was very unrealistic.

Your rapid weight loss before probably resulted in muscle loss too, which,
when combined with your increased age and post-baby body, as left you with
a somewhat lower metabolism. That's life, deal.

You're not the same person you were 10 years ago. If you were wise, you'd
continue with a reasonable plan that you could maintain long term that
would gradually let you achieve your weight goals. But since you're
unwise, you'll be unhappy with your lot in life and make up BS to explain
away this or that. You'll continue to be frustrated and you'll seek out
whatever fly-by-night thing that comes along.

Oh well....

2Phat wrote:
:: Roger I think you posted the below comment regarding fat, butter and
:: such. That is just it, each person is different and each person has
:: to decided for themselves what caused them to lose weight, what
:: causes them to stall and what causes them to maintain. For me it
:: was hard because I was following my old Atkins diet I created for
:: myself.

I was just wondering how the limits were set in induction, as it was unclear
what you are saying is limited, fat in general or butter and such. See:

"AS Atkins evolved and more things were learned, it has changed for each
person. So did his '02 book, he differed from his '72 book. All I'm saying
in his '72 book, that I read in '97, he did not say, go wild with fat, but
he said you can use it and if you had to make choices between butter and
margarine, go butter. If you wanted milk in your coffee/tea go heavy cream.
But again, on induction these things were limited until you were in On Going
Weight Lose Phase."

I have the 1972 book in front of me. for the first week, he did put limits
on hard cheese (4 oz a day) and on heavy cream (4 teaspoons a day) and on
salads. However, for meats, he says any kind in any quantity (he has other
guidelines about how much to eat, etc.) with no mention whatsoever about
fat. Eggs could also be eaten without restriction per the rules, which
we

1) don't count calories
2) eat as much of the allowed foods as you need to avoid hunger
3) don't eat when you're not hungry
4)don't feel you need to finish everything on your plate
5) drink as much water and calorie-free beverages as thirst requires, don't
restrict fluids, but don't force them either
6) frequent small meals are preferable
7) if weakness results from rapid weightloss, you may need salt
8) everyday take a high-strength, multi-vitamin pill
9) Read the labels on "low-calorie" drinks, syrups, and desserts. Only
those with no carbohydrate content are allowed


::
:: For instance, way back in Nov. of 97 I started Atkins, however I was
:: playing around and was also doing CKD, which is for body builders
:: mostly and wasn't getting anywhere. I was also still using fat free
:: stuff food, because I really didn't get Atkins fully. I forgot
:: which I found first, Alt Support Diet (as the low carb ng was not
:: established yet) or others posting about Atkins. Whichever, that is
:: when I found out how I was doing it wrong and became enlighten as to
:: what Atkins was all about. Yeah I read the book but I was holding
:: on to my low fat ways. Okay, in Jan of 98, KFC had their original
:: rottierie chicken and I use to have that for dinner (skin and all)
:: with salad and ranch dressing (I hated ranch to this point) and
:: bacon and eggs for lunch. I started losing weight. The KFC changed
:: and I changed to chicken breasts, steak and such, still had salad,
:: eggs, bacon, cream cheese and ranch dressing. Lost 25 lbs in 1
:: month. As I read more I increased my fat intake to 75% (or more) of
:: my calories from fat. My weight lose slowed but it was still coming
:: off an inch lose was amazing! None the less 10 years ago I was a
:: person who would lose at a good steady rate on majority fat. Today
:: I am not that person as my old diet has not worked for me at all in
:: losing pounds or inches.

10 years and a baby can make a huge difference. Since you lost so fat
before, you likely lost muscle mass too. You're older now, and if you've
become sedentary your metabolism as likely slowed down. You're not the same
you of before. Plus, you're binging now.

::
:: So to answer your question, from a layperson point of view. You
:: have to set your own rules as to what works for you when it comes to
:: Protein/Fat/Carbs.

Frankly, I don't think you have to do that. There's no proof of this notion.
What you need to do is normalize BG levels and reduce appetite. Once you
start eating less, weight loss can occur. Once enough weight loss happens,
one may need to consider counting calories to get it to continue. Note that
our stated goals may not be something we can achieve without significant
effort. just because you want to weight 125 lbs doesn't mean you lead a
lifestyle that can easily support that. Hence, your stated goals can have a
big impact on your ability to achieve them.

::
:: Now for the good news! I started K/E on Monday (I didn't get Sunday
:: off to a good start like I wanted to) and have been very good but
:: not so stick. Meaning I'm not measuring my food, just looking at the
:: portion. Eating eggs, chicken breast and salad, drinking herbal tea
:: with splenda did have a startbucks sugar free vanilla latte with fat
:: free milk, and bunches of water. I have lost 5 lbs since Monday.
:: I will see what happens over the next 11 days, April 30th.

And if you consider that this is water weight, what will happen once you've
depleted glycogen and the rate of loss slows? You'll ditch K/E for shots?

You seem to make out like weight loss is some magical mojo that you need to
find. I think if you'd just be a little more "steady" and/or "consistent"
in your approach you could finally get there, but if you keep changing up
every 15 days in search of weight-loss nirvana, you'll never make it.

2Phat wrote:
:: O I forgot to add, Hollywood, Kimmer's plan includes a water fast on
:: the weekends. Now this is not for me! I have done an orange/orange
:: juice fast if I have an extreme amount of gas in the past, for 3
:: days. Gas was gone and skin was much clearer (got this from my
:: grannies old herbal book and it worked). I know people have done
:: water fasts for days on end, but If I'm eating very little calories
:: on this as is and I personally think it would make me tired and I'd
:: start cravings. I don't know.
::

Good grief. Water fast and OJ fast? Sounds like more try this, try that,
mumbo jumbo. Part of why you've likely lost muscle mass.

2Phat wrote:
:: And HCG over or under will not cause harm. My point.
::

But HCG is not needed to lose weight, either.


:: Roger, I never lose muscle! Gez I posted this before. I had access
:: to regular fat analysis.

And you believe it to be accurate?

::
:: Medical profession never supported Atkins either, and they do
:: support low calorie diets. Have you not heard of medical supervised
:: low calorie diets before??

Nonsense. There as always been members of the medical profession who have
supported LC and Atkins - Heck, you remember that Atkins himself is an MD.

Have you not heard of medically supervised low carb diets before?

::
:: The only wise thing I can do for myself is to be myself and allow
:: you to be the nay sayer you are. To each his own and good luck with
:: yourself!
::

Yes, I will be your "naysayer" since that's what you need.

:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: 2Phat wrote:
::::: Hollywood. No I'm not going to poop on anything. One thing if
::::: nothing else is people come here and else where to learn and find
::::: what is best for them.
:::::
::::: What I do find amusing is the fact that HCG is a hormone and an
::::: overdose would mean, you are very, very, very, very, pregnant.
::::: Insulin is a hormone and an overdose would put you in a comma.
::::: Hummm, HCG is a tad safer in that regard.
:::
::: And without insulin the diabetic would die. Can the same be said
::: for HCG?
:::
:::::
::::: With that, I can only research what is available to me and it does
::::: make me comfortable that doctors do use it for weight lose around
::::: the world so it is not a far fetched idea and it has been proven
::::: to work. Albeit, it could very well be the low calorie diet.
::::: That is a sticky point right now.
:::::
::::: However, I am committed to giving K/E a try, which I believe is a
::::: Atkins/Stillmin hybrid and I can live with that experiment. As
::::: I've done both before.
:::::
::::: What I'm out to prove to myself if nothing else is I AM not
::::: BROKEN. Meaning, I can lose more then 2 lbs a month. In a post
::::: up thread, I have done just that. I have lost 5 lbs from Monday
::::: to Present day. Okay. Great for me. What I have also thought
::::: about during this time is maybe my old ratios of P/F/C is not
::::: longer valid for me at this point in my life, yes due to AGE and
::::: the ever present hormone change we women must face.
:::::
::::: What lead me to HCG was my own frustrations with my lose, diet and
::::: exercise. My binge eating because of the frustrations then my
::::: resolve to stick it out, then frustration again at the scale and
::::: tape measure, binge eating. Very viscous cycle I was on and very
::::: destructive to my own moral and self esteem. Especially with the
::::: exercise routine I had. Max effort for little to no result.
:::::
::::: Maybe all I need was to get back to basics and for the time being
::::: disregarding my created low carb plan that worked well. Maybe I
::::: needed to really clean out my system or at least my liver of
::::: glycogen. Maybe at this point, age and time, basic induction will
::::: work best for a better weight lose that can keep me focused and
::::: reaching for my goal.
:::::
::::: And to all who may think I'm trying to lose 60 pounds in 10 days,
::::: that is not the case. I'll be happy with 5-10 pounds a month if
::::: I'm putting forth max effort. That to me equals the risk/rewards
::::: ratio. IF some say that's unrealistic then that is there reality
::::: not mine.
:::::
:::
::: It's your reality if you can't achieve that weight loss. Being
::: willing to starve yourself to achieve rapid loss is just silly and
::: unwise. You won't find anyone in the medical profession who'll
::: support your plan, because it's very unrealistic.
:::
::: You're repeatedly setting yourself up. You binge when you get
::: frustrated, but you get frustrated because you want a quick
::: solution to a long-term problem. You lost fast before but regained
::: the weight, because you abandoned what got you there which was
::: unrealistic weight loss. Hence, you had no choice but to abandon
::: it because it was very unrealistic.
:::
::: Your rapid weight loss before probably resulted in muscle loss too,
::: which, when combined with your increased age and post-baby body, as
::: left you with a somewhat lower metabolism. That's life, deal.
:::
::: You're not the same person you were 10 years ago. If you were wise,
::: you'd continue with a reasonable plan that you could maintain long
::: term that would gradually let you achieve your weight goals. But
::: since you're unwise, you'll be unhappy with your lot in life and
::: make up BS to explain away this or that. You'll continue to be
::: frustrated and you'll seek out whatever fly-by-night thing that
::: comes along.
:::
::: Oh well....

2Phat wrote:
:: Also Roger, My metabolism is just fine since I have 1/2 my thyroid I
:: get it check out and know all thyroid levels (T1, 2, 3, 4 and my
:: uptake levels and adrenal levels as well and a few other hormonal
:: levels) and have them tested every 6 months.

I see. So, your metabolism is just fine....but you can't lose more than 2
lbs a month. So, What's the problem, then? Cheating? You want to drop
down to 800 kcals / day? Do you really think that's healthy?

Also, your metabolism being just fine now doesn't mean it's the same as it
was 10 years ago. You can still have a lower metobolism now compared to
then which could result in a naturally slower-rate of weight loss. Perhaps
if you'd consider anything beyond HCG you'd be able to see that.

::
:: You know I don't mind criticism but when you do not read prior
:: posts, then you make yourself out to be posting to read yourself in
:: print.

I've read all your prior posts, but what you say makes NO sense.

::
:: Again, To each his own, you go your way and I'll do what I want to
:: do.
::

Fine. But this is usenet and if you post, I'll post.

::
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: 2Phat wrote:
::::: Hollywood. No I'm not going to poop on anything. One thing if
::::: nothing else is people come here and else where to learn and find
::::: what is best for them.
:::::
::::: What I do find amusing is the fact that HCG is a hormone and an
::::: overdose would mean, you are very, very, very, very, pregnant.
::::: Insulin is a hormone and an overdose would put you in a comma.
::::: Hummm, HCG is a tad safer in that regard.
:::
::: And without insulin the diabetic would die. Can the same be said
::: for HCG?
:::
:::::
::::: With that, I can only research what is available to me and it does
::::: make me comfortable that doctors do use it for weight lose around
::::: the world so it is not a far fetched idea and it has been proven
::::: to work. Albeit, it could very well be the low calorie diet.
::::: That is a sticky point right now.
:::::
::::: However, I am committed to giving K/E a try, which I believe is a
::::: Atkins/Stillmin hybrid and I can live with that experiment. As
::::: I've done both before.
:::::
::::: What I'm out to prove to myself if nothing else is I AM not
::::: BROKEN. Meaning, I can lose more then 2 lbs a month. In a post
::::: up thread, I have done just that. I have lost 5 lbs from Monday
::::: to Present day. Okay. Great for me. What I have also thought
::::: about during this time is maybe my old ratios of P/F/C is not
::::: longer valid for me at this point in my life, yes due to AGE and
::::: the ever present hormone change we women must face.
:::::
::::: What lead me to HCG was my own frustrations with my lose, diet and
::::: exercise. My binge eating because of the frustrations then my
::::: resolve to stick it out, then frustration again at the scale and
::::: tape measure, binge eating. Very viscous cycle I was on and very
::::: destructive to my own moral and self esteem. Especially with the
::::: exercise routine I had. Max effort for little to no result.
:::::
::::: Maybe all I need was to get back to basics and for the time being
::::: disregarding my created low carb plan that worked well. Maybe I
::::: needed to really clean out my system or at least my liver of
::::: glycogen. Maybe at this point, age and time, basic induction will
::::: work best for a better weight lose that can keep me focused and
::::: reaching for my goal.
:::::
::::: And to all who may think I'm trying to lose 60 pounds in 10 days,
::::: that is not the case. I'll be happy with 5-10 pounds a month if
::::: I'm putting forth max effort. That to me equals the risk/rewards
::::: ratio. IF some say that's unrealistic then that is there reality
::::: not mine.
:::::
:::
::: It's your reality if you can't achieve that weight loss. Being
::: willing to starve yourself to achieve rapid loss is just silly and
::: unwise. You won't find anyone in the medical profession who'll
::: support your plan, because it's very unrealistic.
:::
::: You're repeatedly setting yourself up. You binge when you get
::: frustrated, but you get frustrated because you want a quick
::: solution to a long-term problem. You lost fast before but regained
::: the weight, because you abandoned what got you there which was
::: unrealistic weight loss. Hence, you had no choice but to abandon
::: it because it was very unrealistic.
:::
::: Your rapid weight loss before probably resulted in muscle loss too,
::: which, when combined with your increased age and post-baby body, as
::: left you with a somewhat lower metabolism. That's life, deal.
:::
::: You're not the same person you were 10 years ago. If you were wise,
::: you'd continue with a reasonable plan that you could maintain long
::: term that would gradually let you achieve your weight goals. But
::: since you're unwise, you'll be unhappy with your lot in life and
::: make up BS to explain away this or that. You'll continue to be
::: frustrated and you'll seek out whatever fly-by-night thing that
::: comes along.
:::
::: Oh well....

"2Phat" wrote:

The fat fast was not meant to be an ongoing weight lose method, 3 days I
think was suggested,

In the 1993/1999 editions it was a week of fat fast alternated
with week of induction levels.

but to 1 break stalls or 2 to determine if you had
other issues (I think thyroid, insulin resistance FWICR).

No. In the 1993/1999 edition it is only for people who do not
"lose" (get into ketosis) at induction levels.

While folks do use it to break stalls and it works, it is
technically an abuse to use the fat fast unless you fail to
get into ketosis at 20 per day. My usual caveat - Know
this and go in knowing what you are doing and I do not
think it's a problem, but try it because it's an extremist
move and you don't know the issues and I think you're
making a mistake.

A lot of people
here and on lists turned the fat fast into a meat fast or used the fat fast
to get into ketosis quickly as well.

Yup. Meat fast (meats and water) is between induction
levels and the fat fast so it is the thing to try before going
to the extreme of the fat fast.

I forgot what he suggested if you could not lose or break your stall on the
fat fast.

Look up reversal diet in the index of the 1993/1999 editions.
It's a radical low fat plan to be used for a couple of weeks to
reset a screwed up metabolism. There's also mention that
if you are going to go off Atkins at least you should switch to
some other plan that could be interpreted as applying.

Experience since then suggests that a leptin reset procedure
is the way to go. The reversal diet described by Dr A does
achieve a leptin reset but there are less radical ways to do it.
For that matter, switching to a common low fat plan for a
while should work okay for most people. Stay on it until
hunger cravings start being a problem then switch back to low
carb.

I need a naysayer? You died and left you the boss of me? Not me.


"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
2Phat wrote:
:: And HCG over or under will not cause harm. My point.
::

But HCG is not needed to lose weight, either.


:: Roger, I never lose muscle! Gez I posted this before. I had access
:: to regular fat analysis.

And you believe it to be accurate?

::
:: Medical profession never supported Atkins either, and they do
:: support low calorie diets. Have you not heard of medical supervised
:: low calorie diets before??

Nonsense. There as always been members of the medical profession who have
supported LC and Atkins - Heck, you remember that Atkins himself is an MD.

Have you not heard of medically supervised low carb diets before?

::
:: The only wise thing I can do for myself is to be myself and allow
:: you to be the nay sayer you are. To each his own and good luck with
:: yourself!
::

Yes, I will be your "naysayer" since that's what you need.

:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: 2Phat wrote:
::::: Hollywood. No I'm not going to poop on anything. One thing if
::::: nothing else is people come here and else where to learn and find
::::: what is best for them.
:::::
::::: What I do find amusing is the fact that HCG is a hormone and an
::::: overdose would mean, you are very, very, very, very, pregnant.
::::: Insulin is a hormone and an overdose would put you in a comma.
::::: Hummm, HCG is a tad safer in that regard.
:::
::: And without insulin the diabetic would die. Can the same be said
::: for HCG?
:::
:::::
::::: With that, I can only research what is available to me and it does
::::: make me comfortable that doctors do use it for weight lose around
::::: the world so it is not a far fetched idea and it has been proven
::::: to work. Albeit, it could very well be the low calorie diet.
::::: That is a sticky point right now.
:::::
::::: However, I am committed to giving K/E a try, which I believe is a
::::: Atkins/Stillmin hybrid and I can live with that experiment. As
::::: I've done both before.
:::::
::::: What I'm out to prove to myself if nothing else is I AM not
::::: BROKEN. Meaning, I can lose more then 2 lbs a month. In a post
::::: up thread, I have done just that. I have lost 5 lbs from Monday
::::: to Present day. Okay. Great for me. What I have also thought
::::: about during this time is maybe my old ratios of P/F/C is not
::::: longer valid for me at this point in my life, yes due to AGE and
::::: the ever present hormone change we women must face.
:::::
::::: What lead me to HCG was my own frustrations with my lose, diet and
::::: exercise. My binge eating because of the frustrations then my
::::: resolve to stick it out, then frustration again at the scale and
::::: tape measure, binge eating. Very viscous cycle I was on and very
::::: destructive to my own moral and self esteem. Especially with the
::::: exercise routine I had. Max effort for little to no result.
:::::
::::: Maybe all I need was to get back to basics and for the time being
::::: disregarding my created low carb plan that worked well. Maybe I
::::: needed to really clean out my system or at least my liver of
::::: glycogen. Maybe at this point, age and time, basic induction will
::::: work best for a better weight lose that can keep me focused and
::::: reaching for my goal.
:::::
::::: And to all who may think I'm trying to lose 60 pounds in 10 days,
::::: that is not the case. I'll be happy with 5-10 pounds a month if
::::: I'm putting forth max effort. That to me equals the risk/rewards
::::: ratio. IF some say that's unrealistic then that is there reality
::::: not mine.
:::::
:::
::: It's your reality if you can't achieve that weight loss. Being
::: willing to starve yourself to achieve rapid loss is just silly and
::: unwise. You won't find anyone in the medical profession who'll
::: support your plan, because it's very unrealistic.
:::
::: You're repeatedly setting yourself up. You binge when you get
::: frustrated, but you get frustrated because you want a quick
::: solution to a long-term problem. You lost fast before but regained
::: the weight, because you abandoned what got you there which was
::: unrealistic weight loss. Hence, you had no choice but to abandon
::: it because it was very unrealistic.
:::
::: Your rapid weight loss before probably resulted in muscle loss too,
::: which, when combined with your increased age and post-baby body, as
::: left you with a somewhat lower metabolism. That's life, deal.
:::
::: You're not the same person you were 10 years ago. If you were wise,
::: you'd continue with a reasonable plan that you could maintain long
::: term that would gradually let you achieve your weight goals. But
::: since you're unwise, you'll be unhappy with your lot in life and
::: make up BS to explain away this or that. You'll continue to be
::: frustrated and you'll seek out whatever fly-by-night thing that
::: comes along.
:::
::: Oh well....