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Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 29th, 2004, 12:40 AM
Lady Veteran
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:05:32 -0400, Kevin J
! wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:16:04 GMT, Lady Veteran
wrote:

Do you mean to say that someone who is 600 lbs is that way because
of body fat?

Shocking!!


With observations like that I am surprised you can put one foot in
from of the other without tripping.

LV


Dude, why so harsh? I don't know your group, looks like you get a
lot of trolls, but you do respond in the wrong way. Why the
bitterness?

I happen to have a firm grasp on the obvious. Which was what the
previous posters statement was. I was obviously amazed by the
shocking nature of that informative post. Statements of the
obvious, such as that by the previous poster, can actually be quite
witty, as was that post.

This amazing ability of mine to mentally wrap my mind around the
obvious also allows me to see the ground and know where my legs are
as I step forward, thus preventing tripping. Shocking, isn't it?



How many dudes do you know call themselves LADY veteran? I should rest my
case right here. However, I will say also that knowing that someone
deliberately posts information from here to ad nauseam designed to
make fat people look bad in the eyes of their fellow human and you
add to it with dripping sarcasm.

Only an idiot would do that and walk away thinking he did nothing
wrong. It is not even remotely funny. If you look at the original
post in this thread you will not that the name used is Jean_C. This
is a real live person being forged by an anonymous coward called
NR...a non-entitiy of the most vicious sort. He is living on
nervous energy because he is close to being exposed. I have already
stated that if I get that I will spread that information from the
Devil's asshole to God's eyebrows and I mean it. We will then see if
this little **** likes his own medicine.

That little **** NR has tried for 3 years to get rid of me and nothing
has worked. He has been forces to admit that I am very strong and
very intelligent.

His anonymous posting days will be very dead and that goes for all
of the rest of the anonymous idiots that are to ****ing chicken to
poke sticks in the clear.

They have no balls, that is all.

They are cowards to the core.

LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------


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  #12  
Old March 29th, 2004, 01:23 AM
The Troll Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Lady Veteran continued to
protest too much:

If you look at the original
post in this thread you will not that the name used is Jean_C. This
is a real live person being forged by an anonymous coward called
NR...a non-entitiy of the most vicious sort.


You're a real piece of work. I used very sophisticated network traffic
analysis equipment to trace the Jean C posts back to your IP address. You
are a kook and a liar. This could be a case of Münchausen syndrome by
proxy.

You're mentally ill. Get help. Now. ASAP.



  #13  
Old March 29th, 2004, 01:36 AM
Lady Veteran
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 29 Mar 2004 01:23:29 +0100, The Troll Hunter
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Lady Veteran continued to
protest too much:

If you look at the original
post in this thread you will not that the name used is Jean_C. This
is a real live person being forged by an anonymous coward called
NR...a non-entitiy of the most vicious sort.


You're a real piece of work. I used very sophisticated network
traffic analysis equipment to trace the Jean C posts back to your IP
address. You are a kook and a liar. This could be a case of
Münchausen syndrome by proxy.

You're mentally ill. Get help. Now. ASAP.



I have that say equipment. I use Sam Spade and Neo Trace. Stick your
computer up your ass.

You are a useless piece of humanity. You locked in on my reply
****wit.

**** you and **** off. Do a google like I did numbnuts.

LV


Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------


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  #14  
Old March 29th, 2004, 02:01 AM
Sonny Maou
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fitfat women.

Lady Veteran and some other person wrote:

You're a real piece of work. I used very sophisticated network
traffic analysis equipment to trace the Jean C posts back to your IP
address. You are a kook and a liar. This could be a case of
Münchausen syndrome by proxy.
You're mentally ill. Get help. Now. ASAP.

You are a useless piece of humanity. You locked in on my reply
poopie-wit.
poop you and poop off. Do a google like I did numbnuts.


Can't we all just get along?

  #15  
Old March 29th, 2004, 02:18 AM
The Troll Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Lady Veteran wrote:

On 29 Mar 2004 01:23:29 +0100, The Troll Hunter
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Lady Veteran continued to
protest too much:

If you look at the original
post in this thread you will not that the name used is Jean_C. This
is a real live person being forged by an anonymous coward called
NR...a non-entitiy of the most vicious sort.


You're a real piece of work. I used very sophisticated network
traffic analysis equipment to trace the Jean C posts back to your IP
address. You are a kook and a liar. This could be a case of
Münchausen syndrome by proxy.

You're mentally ill. Get help. Now. ASAP.



I have that say equipment.


Tell me specifically what equipment I'm using then.

I use Sam Spade and Neo Trace.


You are confusing consumer grade software with equipment that cost my
employer big $$$. I personally could not afford it.

Stick your
computer up your ass.


You doth protest too much, forger.


You are a useless piece of humanity. You locked in on my reply
****wit.


You ARE the Jean C forger. No amount of protest from you will change that.
You continue to act VERY guilty.

**** you and **** off. Do a google like I did numbnuts.


You have been busted. Learn how to properly use remailers before you
attempt to defame your next victim.

You're mentally ill. Get help. Now. ASAP.





  #16  
Old March 29th, 2004, 04:43 AM
Ralph DuBose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ...
Not according to Blair, Forrester, and likely others.

Nothing wrong w/ being "fat", if it is possible to ever DEFINE
"fat". Problem numero uno.
The issue is lifestyle.
Now, you can argue that there are correlations, even cause,
between lifestyle and weight, but in the cases where there is not (where
someone is just genetically heavier than their counterpart), such findings
likely do not hold water. And this is a very common occurrence.


It never occurs. What is true is that people are totally unreliable
at estimateing their food intake or activity levels.
Every ones "metabolism" is essentially 100% efficient. Nothing is
wasted unless you are sick.
Moving burns calories. Move enough and eat little enough and anyone
can lose weight. It happens in every Serbian work-camp, no exceptions.


Blair found that fat AND fit was actually "healthier" than thin
and fit, although fat and UNfit was worse than thin and unfit.
Pick yer POV, I suppose.
And who determines what is fat? The Met Life Tables??? These
bull**** bmi indexes??

But realize this:
From pure biochemical POVs, there is absolutely nothing wrong
with fat tissue, except as *mechanically* affects mobility and blood
pressure. I'm all ears to anyone who can provide a stitch of *biochemical*
evidence as to the evils of fat/fat tissue.


Feeding fat tissue takes a lot of insulin. A coonstant high demand
tends tio wear out the cells that make insulin. They start to die off,
you start to get diabetes. Lose fat and your pancrease can catch its
breath.

The presumption of the "evil of fat" fuels the absolutely
ridiculous premiss of "gaining muscle cuz.. cuz.. it burns more
calories..." Jesus Christ, do these people buy their own food? Would they
want a car that "is.. is.. more better cuz.. cuz.. it burns more GAS"??
Man, give me an effing conceptual break, pleeze...


For most people, controlling weight means burning more calories.
Lots of muscle helps.

Muscle is good, cuz it ""fuels"" activity, and therefore is an
anti-aging "tissue", if you will. Period.
But for the physiological alchemists out there, who think "evil
fat must be turned into good muscle", fat and muscle are in fact totally
independent entities. In fact, low low bodyfat significantly mitigates
*against* overall muscle tissue, cuz the body will cannibalize muscle before
it cannibalizes fat. Nutrition 201.


This is naive. THe important factor is whether or not a muscle is
being used. Even with a perfect diet, unused muscles will be
"cannabilized". If muscles are being stressed, they are built up, even
when weight is being lost.
This is called "basic training" in the USMC.


"Fat" fit people are, in general, very strong.
I need to increase my goddammed metabolism like a submarine
needs screened doors.

In the same, uh, vein, there is most likely absolutely nothing
wrong with cholesterol, which is also linked to overweight, and these
asshole researchers are now saying that even good cholesterol is bad. If
you, or your doctor, don't know what a foam cell is, then you have no
inkling whatsoever into the etiology of plaques, and therefore the supposed
risk factors of cholesterol.

Now there is likely a valid statistical significance to morbid
obesity and poor health/mortality. But the cited research, and that of its
flawed biased ilk, is f'sure skewed toward the absolutely ridiculous
"standards" of the Met-Life tables, which exist purely to extort great
insurance premiums out of the pockets


If this true, the current tidal wave of obesity in this country will
not be accompanied by a wave of diabetes, immobility, and wrecked
vascular systems.
Or you could open your eyes.

..
of the Great American Pubic®©, since
very few people, even athletic people, fit those profiles.
Kate Moss and Naomi Campbell might fit them.
Who are so stupidly put together as to likely not function
correctly physiologically or biomechanically. I think that "runway walk"
might well be a neurological condition of some sort, proly due to a
deficiency in EFAs. I expect them to break into a trot, rear up, and
whinney at any given moment.

Also realize the fundamental bias in this research:

Where would half of medicine be, along with half of
pharmaceuticals, if there were no Fat Villain? Where would health clubs be,
and the weight-loss infomercial industry (which seems to have died as of
late--whuhhoppened???) without the Fat Villain?

The health industry supined and levitated like QuickDraw
McGraw's mean mangy hounddog after a heroin shot, I mean, after a dawg
biskit, when AIDS emerged.
Wow--finally--a *real* villain!!
With several really really really big bonuses:
1. Itsa Pubic Health villain.
2. We can blame it on fags!! Hoorayyyy!!!!
3. Whotta effing moral bonanza!! Falwell came in his pants,
and has been running around with a permanent erection ever since. Ergo that
chronic ****eating grin on his face.
But alas, we can't blame it on lesbians.
But fags is good.

Realize that you can't get NIH funding iffin you don't tow a
certain scientific party line. Realize that most of these researchers are
hacks, sweating their effing jobs. 1.30 vs. 1.32-- I'd be EMBARRASSED to
publish numbers like that. Shows that they don't even understand their own
statistics or epidemiological methodology. You can't trust differences like
that in "hard" science, much less soft science.
And, regardless of what university said-****-study was
"performed" at--and "perform" is oh-so apropo--they might as well have done
their ""research"" on Broadway--this has absolutely nothing to do with WHO
FUNDED the research.
Ergo,
You are likely to be as well-informed listening to Bob Barefoot
and the Eades assholes (MDs) as you would reading this **** science.

And the ""science-based"" aesthetic witchhunt continues.
Big big bidness.
Subscribe to it iffin you want, but realize that people who
live by such swords often die by the same sword. I look at skinny people,
esp. those who wear it like a badge of honor, with wishbone thighs,
concentration-camp-clavicles, and the like, and laugh.
They are in for a rude age-related awakening.

Unfortunately, the full-size photos of the NYC marathon
winners fuels the absurdity. Good gawd, I wanna stop and give those two a
sandwich.


I have run the NYC marathon. It is a very tough race because of all
the hills and bridges. But it is a great way to get to know your body
is really capable of. Pigging out until your natural body is hidden
beneath 4-5 inches of yellow fat is a great way to lose foever that
sort of opportunity.

..
Oprah further fuels it with her ridiculous pubic, and
disingenous, obsession with weight loss, when she should be lifting goddamm
weights. Billy Blanks' Tae-Boo, it seems, was not effective. Gee, how
could that be??? Go figger.

I guess none of this **** is ever going to be over... until
mebbe the Fat Lady sings??? Charging the Skinny Spectators top dollar, I
would hope.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d, quite proud of his one big ab.
HoloBarre Indeed Lives.
formerly Droll Troll

"Radioactive Man" wrote in message
...
On 27 Mar 2004 19:26:52 +0100,
(NR) wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Am J Epidemiol 2002 Nov 1;156(9):832-41
Fitness and fatness as predictors of mortality from all causes and from
cardiovascular disease in men and women in the lipid research clinics
study.
Stevens J, Cai J, Evenson KR, Thomas R.
Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health, University of North
Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599, USA.


The relative size of the effects of fitness and fatness on longevity has
been studied in only one cohort. The authors examined this issue using

data
from 2,506 women and 2,860 men in the Lipid Research Clinics Study. The
mean age was 46.6 years in women and 45.1 years in men at baseline
(1972-1976). Fitness was assessed using a treadmill test, and fatness was
assessed as body mass index calculated from measured height and weight.
Participants were followed for vital status through 1998. Hazard ratios
were calculated using proportional hazard models that included covariates
for age, education, smoking, alcohol intake, and the dietary Keys score.
Fitness and fatness were both associated with mortality from all causes

and
from cardiovascular disease. For mortality from all causes, the adjusted
hazard ratios were 1.32 among the fit-fat, 1.30 among the unfit-not fat,
and 1.57 among the unfit-fat women compared with fit-not fat women. Among
men the same hazard ratios were 1.44, 1.25, and 1.49. There were no
significant interactions between fitness and fatness in either men or
women. The authors conclude that both fitness and fatness are risk

factors
for mortality, and that being fit does not completely reverse the

increased
risk associated with excess adiposity.


1.32 vs. 1.30 is not a significant difference. If you changed the
focus to men, your subject line would be much more relevant. From the
data you've presented, one would conclude that unfittness and obesity
are roughly equal in their effect on mortality in women. But for men,
the risk due to obesity far outweighs the risk due to lack of fitness,
meaning that fat men die at pretty much the same rate, whether or not
they're "in shape".




****

Jennifer Portnick wept.

NR

http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html

If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last thing
you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an automatic.
- --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me and
sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
choice had vandalized churches.
- --Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no normal
camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have sex

when
she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women ain't
that big.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right? Besides,
after ****ing a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all that
except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all. If

the
lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance than
looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures where
they were called cows.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I would
really not care.
- --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Stephen A Chaney admits to sodomizing his daughter if he forges me now.



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  #17  
Old March 30th, 2004, 06:22 AM
Proctologically Violated©®
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.

You went to an awful lot of trouble to make almost everything you
wrote factually wrong, a misinterpretation of my statements, or just plain
irrelevant. Congrats.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message
om...
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message

...
Not according to Blair, Forrester, and likely others.

Nothing wrong w/ being "fat", if it is possible to ever

DEFINE
"fat". Problem numero uno.
The issue is lifestyle.
Now, you can argue that there are correlations, even cause,
between lifestyle and weight, but in the cases where there is not (where
someone is just genetically heavier than their counterpart), such

findings
likely do not hold water. And this is a very common occurrence.


It never occurs. What is true is that people are totally unreliable
at estimateing their food intake or activity levels.
Every ones "metabolism" is essentially 100% efficient. Nothing is
wasted unless you are sick.
Moving burns calories. Move enough and eat little enough and anyone
can lose weight. It happens in every Serbian work-camp, no exceptions.


Blair found that fat AND fit was actually "healthier" than

thin
and fit, although fat and UNfit was worse than thin and unfit.
Pick yer POV, I suppose.
And who determines what is fat? The Met Life Tables???

These
bull**** bmi indexes??

But realize this:
From pure biochemical POVs, there is absolutely nothing

wrong
with fat tissue, except as *mechanically* affects mobility and blood
pressure. I'm all ears to anyone who can provide a stitch of

*biochemical*
evidence as to the evils of fat/fat tissue.


Feeding fat tissue takes a lot of insulin. A coonstant high demand
tends tio wear out the cells that make insulin. They start to die off,
you start to get diabetes. Lose fat and your pancrease can catch its
breath.

The presumption of the "evil of fat" fuels the absolutely
ridiculous premiss of "gaining muscle cuz.. cuz.. it burns more
calories..." Jesus Christ, do these people buy their own food? Would

they
want a car that "is.. is.. more better cuz.. cuz.. it burns more GAS"??
Man, give me an effing conceptual break, pleeze...


For most people, controlling weight means burning more calories.
Lots of muscle helps.

Muscle is good, cuz it ""fuels"" activity, and therefore

is an
anti-aging "tissue", if you will. Period.
But for the physiological alchemists out there, who think

"evil
fat must be turned into good muscle", fat and muscle are in fact totally
independent entities. In fact, low low bodyfat significantly mitigates
*against* overall muscle tissue, cuz the body will cannibalize muscle

before
it cannibalizes fat. Nutrition 201.


This is naive. THe important factor is whether or not a muscle is
being used. Even with a perfect diet, unused muscles will be
"cannabilized". If muscles are being stressed, they are built up, even
when weight is being lost.
This is called "basic training" in the USMC.


"Fat" fit people are, in general, very strong.
I need to increase my goddammed metabolism like a submarine
needs screened doors.

In the same, uh, vein, there is most likely absolutely

nothing
wrong with cholesterol, which is also linked to overweight, and these
asshole researchers are now saying that even good cholesterol is bad.

If
you, or your doctor, don't know what a foam cell is, then you have no
inkling whatsoever into the etiology of plaques, and therefore the

supposed
risk factors of cholesterol.

Now there is likely a valid statistical significance to

morbid
obesity and poor health/mortality. But the cited research, and that of

its
flawed biased ilk, is f'sure skewed toward the absolutely ridiculous
"standards" of the Met-Life tables, which exist purely to extort great
insurance premiums out of the pockets


If this true, the current tidal wave of obesity in this country will
not be accompanied by a wave of diabetes, immobility, and wrecked
vascular systems.
Or you could open your eyes.

.
of the Great American Pubic®©, since
very few people, even athletic people, fit those profiles.
Kate Moss and Naomi Campbell might fit them.
Who are so stupidly put together as to likely not function
correctly physiologically or biomechanically. I think that "runway walk"
might well be a neurological condition of some sort, proly due to a
deficiency in EFAs. I expect them to break into a trot, rear up, and
whinney at any given moment.

Also realize the fundamental bias in this research:

Where would half of medicine be, along with half of
pharmaceuticals, if there were no Fat Villain? Where would health clubs

be,
and the weight-loss infomercial industry (which seems to have died as of
late--whuhhoppened???) without the Fat Villain?

The health industry supined and levitated like QuickDraw
McGraw's mean mangy hounddog after a heroin shot, I mean, after a dawg
biskit, when AIDS emerged.
Wow--finally--a *real* villain!!
With several really really really big bonuses:
1. Itsa Pubic Health villain.
2. We can blame it on fags!! Hoorayyyy!!!!
3. Whotta effing moral bonanza!! Falwell came in his

pants,
and has been running around with a permanent erection ever since. Ergo

that
chronic ****eating grin on his face.
But alas, we can't blame it on lesbians.
But fags is good.

Realize that you can't get NIH funding iffin you don't tow

a
certain scientific party line. Realize that most of these researchers

are
hacks, sweating their effing jobs. 1.30 vs. 1.32-- I'd be EMBARRASSED

to
publish numbers like that. Shows that they don't even understand their

own
statistics or epidemiological methodology. You can't trust differences

like
that in "hard" science, much less soft science.
And, regardless of what university said-****-study was
"performed" at--and "perform" is oh-so apropo--they might as well have

done
their ""research"" on Broadway--this has absolutely nothing to do with

WHO
FUNDED the research.
Ergo,
You are likely to be as well-informed listening to Bob

Barefoot
and the Eades assholes (MDs) as you would reading this **** science.

And the ""science-based"" aesthetic witchhunt continues.
Big big bidness.
Subscribe to it iffin you want, but realize that people

who
live by such swords often die by the same sword. I look at skinny

people,
esp. those who wear it like a badge of honor, with wishbone thighs,
concentration-camp-clavicles, and the like, and laugh.
They are in for a rude age-related awakening.

Unfortunately, the full-size photos of the NYC marathon
winners fuels the absurdity. Good gawd, I wanna stop and give those two

a
sandwich.


I have run the NYC marathon. It is a very tough race because of all
the hills and bridges. But it is a great way to get to know your body
is really capable of. Pigging out until your natural body is hidden
beneath 4-5 inches of yellow fat is a great way to lose foever that
sort of opportunity.

.
Oprah further fuels it with her ridiculous pubic, and
disingenous, obsession with weight loss, when she should be lifting

goddamm
weights. Billy Blanks' Tae-Boo, it seems, was not effective. Gee, how
could that be??? Go figger.

I guess none of this **** is ever going to be over...

until
mebbe the Fat Lady sings??? Charging the Skinny Spectators top dollar,

I
would hope.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d, quite proud of his one big ab.
HoloBarre Indeed Lives.
formerly Droll Troll

"Radioactive Man" wrote in message
...
On 27 Mar 2004 19:26:52 +0100,
(NR) wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Am J Epidemiol 2002 Nov 1;156(9):832-41
Fitness and fatness as predictors of mortality from all causes and

from
cardiovascular disease in men and women in the lipid research clinics
study.
Stevens J, Cai J, Evenson KR, Thomas R.
Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health, University of North
Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599, USA.


The relative size of the effects of fitness and fatness on longevity

has
been studied in only one cohort. The authors examined this issue

using
data
from 2,506 women and 2,860 men in the Lipid Research Clinics Study.

The
mean age was 46.6 years in women and 45.1 years in men at baseline
(1972-1976). Fitness was assessed using a treadmill test, and fatness

was
assessed as body mass index calculated from measured height and

weight.
Participants were followed for vital status through 1998. Hazard

ratios
were calculated using proportional hazard models that included

covariates
for age, education, smoking, alcohol intake, and the dietary Keys

score.
Fitness and fatness were both associated with mortality from all

causes
and
from cardiovascular disease. For mortality from all causes, the

adjusted
hazard ratios were 1.32 among the fit-fat, 1.30 among the unfit-not

fat,
and 1.57 among the unfit-fat women compared with fit-not fat women.

Among
men the same hazard ratios were 1.44, 1.25, and 1.49. There were no
significant interactions between fitness and fatness in either men or
women. The authors conclude that both fitness and fatness are risk

factors
for mortality, and that being fit does not completely reverse the

increased
risk associated with excess adiposity.

1.32 vs. 1.30 is not a significant difference. If you changed the
focus to men, your subject line would be much more relevant. From the
data you've presented, one would conclude that unfittness and obesity
are roughly equal in their effect on mortality in women. But for men,
the risk due to obesity far outweighs the risk due to lack of fitness,
meaning that fat men die at pretty much the same rate, whether or not
they're "in shape".




****

Jennifer Portnick wept.

NR

http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html

If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last

thing
you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an

automatic.
- --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me

and
sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
choice had vandalized churches.
- --Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no

normal
camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have

sex
when
she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women

ain't
that big.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right?

Besides,
after ****ing a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all

that
except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all.

If
the
lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance

than
looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures

where
they were called cows.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I

would
really not care.
- --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Stephen A Chaney admits to sodomizing his daughter if he forges me

now.



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  #18  
Old March 30th, 2004, 10:44 PM
Ralph DuBose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unfit thin women have a lower mortality rate than *cough* fit fat women.

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message ...
You went to an awful lot of trouble to make almost everything you
wrote factually wrong, a misinterpretation of my statements, or just plain
irrelevant. Congrats.


I am used to being congratulated. It gets boring. A discussion of
the truth of some of your claims might be more worthwhile.
How is it that the USMC or any of similar organizations can take in
flabby fat people and turn them into lean, muscular people in a fairly
short time? Are their muscles being "cannabilized" as their weight and
fat decreases?
You asked for a biochemical description of the metabolic stress
caused by fat tissue, per se, and I gave you one. Any response?
I am really beginning to suspect that there is some deep connection
between getting fat and seeing oneself as a helpless victim, like
maybe fat secrets a hormone that paralyzes a part of the brain. Or
maybe such attitudes are just the natural result of hanging around
other fat people who tell one another comforting BS about the sheer,
total inevitability of their obesity.


----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Ralph DuBose" wrote in message
om...
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message

...
Not according to Blair, Forrester, and likely others.

Nothing wrong w/ being "fat", if it is possible to ever

DEFINE
"fat". Problem numero uno.
The issue is lifestyle.
Now, you can argue that there are correlations, even cause,
between lifestyle and weight, but in the cases where there is not (where
someone is just genetically heavier than their counterpart), such

findings
likely do not hold water. And this is a very common occurrence.


It never occurs. What is true is that people are totally unreliable
at estimateing their food intake or activity levels.
Every ones "metabolism" is essentially 100% efficient. Nothing is
wasted unless you are sick.
Moving burns calories. Move enough and eat little enough and anyone
can lose weight. It happens in every Serbian work-camp, no exceptions.


Blair found that fat AND fit was actually "healthier" than

thin
and fit, although fat and UNfit was worse than thin and unfit.
Pick yer POV, I suppose.
And who determines what is fat? The Met Life Tables???

These
bull**** bmi indexes??

But realize this:
From pure biochemical POVs, there is absolutely nothing

wrong
with fat tissue, except as *mechanically* affects mobility and blood
pressure. I'm all ears to anyone who can provide a stitch of

*biochemical*
evidence as to the evils of fat/fat tissue.


Feeding fat tissue takes a lot of insulin. A coonstant high demand
tends tio wear out the cells that make insulin. They start to die off,
you start to get diabetes. Lose fat and your pancrease can catch its
breath.

The presumption of the "evil of fat" fuels the absolutely
ridiculous premiss of "gaining muscle cuz.. cuz.. it burns more
calories..." Jesus Christ, do these people buy their own food? Would

they
want a car that "is.. is.. more better cuz.. cuz.. it burns more GAS"??
Man, give me an effing conceptual break, pleeze...


For most people, controlling weight means burning more calories.
Lots of muscle helps.

Muscle is good, cuz it ""fuels"" activity, and therefore

is an
anti-aging "tissue", if you will. Period.
But for the physiological alchemists out there, who think

"evil
fat must be turned into good muscle", fat and muscle are in fact totally
independent entities. In fact, low low bodyfat significantly mitigates
*against* overall muscle tissue, cuz the body will cannibalize muscle

before
it cannibalizes fat. Nutrition 201.


This is naive. THe important factor is whether or not a muscle is
being used. Even with a perfect diet, unused muscles will be
"cannabilized". If muscles are being stressed, they are built up, even
when weight is being lost.
This is called "basic training" in the USMC.


"Fat" fit people are, in general, very strong.
I need to increase my goddammed metabolism like a submarine
needs screened doors.

In the same, uh, vein, there is most likely absolutely

nothing
wrong with cholesterol, which is also linked to overweight, and these
asshole researchers are now saying that even good cholesterol is bad.

If
you, or your doctor, don't know what a foam cell is, then you have no
inkling whatsoever into the etiology of plaques, and therefore the

supposed
risk factors of cholesterol.

Now there is likely a valid statistical significance to

morbid
obesity and poor health/mortality. But the cited research, and that of

its
flawed biased ilk, is f'sure skewed toward the absolutely ridiculous
"standards" of the Met-Life tables, which exist purely to extort great
insurance premiums out of the pockets


If this true, the current tidal wave of obesity in this country will
not be accompanied by a wave of diabetes, immobility, and wrecked
vascular systems.
Or you could open your eyes.

.
of the Great American Pubic®©, since
very few people, even athletic people, fit those profiles.
Kate Moss and Naomi Campbell might fit them.
Who are so stupidly put together as to likely not function
correctly physiologically or biomechanically. I think that "runway walk"
might well be a neurological condition of some sort, proly due to a
deficiency in EFAs. I expect them to break into a trot, rear up, and
whinney at any given moment.

Also realize the fundamental bias in this research:

Where would half of medicine be, along with half of
pharmaceuticals, if there were no Fat Villain? Where would health clubs

be,
and the weight-loss infomercial industry (which seems to have died as of
late--whuhhoppened???) without the Fat Villain?

The health industry supined and levitated like QuickDraw
McGraw's mean mangy hounddog after a heroin shot, I mean, after a dawg
biskit, when AIDS emerged.
Wow--finally--a *real* villain!!
With several really really really big bonuses:
1. Itsa Pubic Health villain.
2. We can blame it on fags!! Hoorayyyy!!!!
3. Whotta effing moral bonanza!! Falwell came in his

pants,
and has been running around with a permanent erection ever since. Ergo

that
chronic ****eating grin on his face.
But alas, we can't blame it on lesbians.
But fags is good.

Realize that you can't get NIH funding iffin you don't tow

a
certain scientific party line. Realize that most of these researchers

are
hacks, sweating their effing jobs. 1.30 vs. 1.32-- I'd be EMBARRASSED

to
publish numbers like that. Shows that they don't even understand their

own
statistics or epidemiological methodology. You can't trust differences

like
that in "hard" science, much less soft science.
And, regardless of what university said-****-study was
"performed" at--and "perform" is oh-so apropo--they might as well have

done
their ""research"" on Broadway--this has absolutely nothing to do with

WHO
FUNDED the research.
Ergo,
You are likely to be as well-informed listening to Bob

Barefoot
and the Eades assholes (MDs) as you would reading this **** science.

And the ""science-based"" aesthetic witchhunt continues.
Big big bidness.
Subscribe to it iffin you want, but realize that people

who
live by such swords often die by the same sword. I look at skinny

people,
esp. those who wear it like a badge of honor, with wishbone thighs,
concentration-camp-clavicles, and the like, and laugh.
They are in for a rude age-related awakening.

Unfortunately, the full-size photos of the NYC marathon
winners fuels the absurdity. Good gawd, I wanna stop and give those two

a
sandwich.


I have run the NYC marathon. It is a very tough race because of all
the hills and bridges. But it is a great way to get to know your body
is really capable of. Pigging out until your natural body is hidden
beneath 4-5 inches of yellow fat is a great way to lose foever that
sort of opportunity.

.
Oprah further fuels it with her ridiculous pubic, and
disingenous, obsession with weight loss, when she should be lifting

goddamm
weights. Billy Blanks' Tae-Boo, it seems, was not effective. Gee, how
could that be??? Go figger.

I guess none of this **** is ever going to be over...

until
mebbe the Fat Lady sings??? Charging the Skinny Spectators top dollar,

I
would hope.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d, quite proud of his one big ab.
HoloBarre Indeed Lives.
formerly Droll Troll

"Radioactive Man" wrote in message
...
On 27 Mar 2004 19:26:52 +0100,
(NR) wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Am J Epidemiol 2002 Nov 1;156(9):832-41
Fitness and fatness as predictors of mortality from all causes and

from
cardiovascular disease in men and women in the lipid research clinics
study.
Stevens J, Cai J, Evenson KR, Thomas R.
Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health, University of North
Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599, USA.


The relative size of the effects of fitness and fatness on longevity

has
been studied in only one cohort. The authors examined this issue

using
data
from 2,506 women and 2,860 men in the Lipid Research Clinics Study.

The
mean age was 46.6 years in women and 45.1 years in men at baseline
(1972-1976). Fitness was assessed using a treadmill test, and fatness

was
assessed as body mass index calculated from measured height and

weight.
Participants were followed for vital status through 1998. Hazard

ratios
were calculated using proportional hazard models that included

covariates
for age, education, smoking, alcohol intake, and the dietary Keys

score.
Fitness and fatness were both associated with mortality from all

causes
and
from cardiovascular disease. For mortality from all causes, the

adjusted
hazard ratios were 1.32 among the fit-fat, 1.30 among the unfit-not

fat,
and 1.57 among the unfit-fat women compared with fit-not fat women.

Among
men the same hazard ratios were 1.44, 1.25, and 1.49. There were no
significant interactions between fitness and fatness in either men or
women. The authors conclude that both fitness and fatness are risk

factors
for mortality, and that being fit does not completely reverse the

increased
risk associated with excess adiposity.

1.32 vs. 1.30 is not a significant difference. If you changed the
focus to men, your subject line would be much more relevant. From the
data you've presented, one would conclude that unfittness and obesity
are roughly equal in their effect on mortality in women. But for men,
the risk due to obesity far outweighs the risk due to lack of fitness,
meaning that fat men die at pretty much the same rate, whether or not
they're "in shape".




****

Jennifer Portnick wept.

NR

http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html

If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last

thing
you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an

automatic.
- --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me

and
sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
choice had vandalized churches.
- --Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID:

she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no

normal
camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have

sex
when
she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women

ain't
that big.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right?

Besides,
after ****ing a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all

that
except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all.

If
the
lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance

than
looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures

where
they were called cows.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I

would
really not care.
- --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
Message-ID:

Stephen A Chaney admits to sodomizing his daughter if he forges me

now.



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