OT - Opinions about bleach as a cleanser

Carmen wrote:
:: Hi,
:: On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: How It Causes Harm:
::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say
::: that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true,
::: but
::: only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions.
::: Chlorine
::: itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of
::: chlorine such
::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment.
::
:: You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A
:: "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine is an
:: element. It is already in its simplest naturally occuring form.
:: Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and oxygen or salt elements
:: like sodium.

I think what they mean is that if chlorine gets into the environment it can
act on other materials and the resulting chemical reaction may lead to
things like organochlorines and dioxins.

:: These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of*
:: substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to occur
:: just because of the presence of chlorine atoms.

Well, the issue is that the bleach has to go somewhere in the environment,
which may result in these byproducts. I never said dioxin are in bleach,
someone else simply made the comment they aren't, which I don't dispute.

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Carmen wrote:
:: Hi,
:: On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: How It Causes Harm:
::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say
::: that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true,
::: but
::: only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions.
::: Chlorine
::: itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of
::: chlorine such
::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment.
::
:: You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A
:: "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine is an
:: element. It is already in its simplest naturally occuring form.
:: Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and oxygen or salt elements
:: like sodium.

I think what they mean is that if chlorine gets into the environment it can
act on other materials and the resulting chemical reaction may lead to
things like organochlorines and dioxins.

:: These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of*
:: substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to occur
:: just because of the presence of chlorine atoms.

Well, the issue is that the bleach has to go somewhere in the environment,
which may result in these byproducts. I never said dioxin are in bleach,
someone else simply made the comment they aren't, which I don't dispute.

You know they use chlorine in swimming pools quite a lot. It does
cause asthma in children, but I've not heard of any other medical
problems.

It dries out your hair (well, the whole mix of pool chemicals does)
and your skin, and it makes you smell like chlorine. It turns your
hair green. When the weather is very hot, chloramine gas can form over
the surface of the pool, which will make you gag.

If you are worried about bleach, why not use something else?

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Carmen wrote:
:: Hi,
:: On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: How It Causes Harm:
::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say
::: that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true,
::: but
::: only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions.
::: Chlorine
::: itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of
::: chlorine such
::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment.
::
:: You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A
:: "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine is an
:: element. It is already in its simplest naturally occuring form.
:: Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and oxygen or salt elements
:: like sodium.

I think what they mean is that if chlorine gets into the environment it can
act on other materials and the resulting chemical reaction may lead to
things like organochlorines and dioxins.

:: These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of*
:: substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to occur
:: just because of the presence of chlorine atoms.

Well, the issue is that the bleach has to go somewhere in the environment,
which may result in these byproducts. I never said dioxin are in bleach,
someone else simply made the comment they aren't, which I don't dispute.

You know they use chlorine in swimming pools quite a lot. It does
cause asthma in children, but I've not heard of any other medical
problems.

It dries out your hair (well, the whole mix of pool chemicals does)
and your skin, and it makes you smell like chlorine. It turns your
hair green. When the weather is very hot, chloramine gas can form over
the surface of the pool, which will make you gag.

If you are worried about bleach, why not use something else?

Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.


Chlorine the element is an element. "Chlorine", the term, is a common
name of Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO).

It's like when a woman's water breaks and someone says "That's not
water. Water is H2O"...

--
Sam-I-Am
Have no destination, and you will not get lost. -Thyoar


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Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.


Chlorine the element is an element. "Chlorine", the term, is a common
name of Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO).

It's like when a woman's water breaks and someone says "That's not
water. Water is H2O"...

--
Sam-I-Am
Have no destination, and you will not get lost. -Thyoar


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.747 / Virus Database: 499 - Release Date: 9/1/04

"Sam" wrote:

Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.


Chlorine the element is an element. "Chlorine", the term, is a common
name of Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO).

That's a bleach, not chlorine. It containes chlorine. I have never
heard anyone refer to bleach as chlorine. I have heard the term
"chlorine bleach," which refers to bleach with chlorine in it.

It's like when a woman's water breaks and someone says "That's not
water. Water is H2O"...

It isn't like that at all.

"Sam" wrote:

Martin W. Smith mentioned in passing :

Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.


Chlorine the element is an element. "Chlorine", the term, is a common
name of Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO).

That's a bleach, not chlorine. It containes chlorine. I have never
heard anyone refer to bleach as chlorine. I have heard the term
"chlorine bleach," which refers to bleach with chlorine in it.

It's like when a woman's water breaks and someone says "That's not
water. Water is H2O"...

It isn't like that at all.

Martin W. Smith wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: The paragraph below is where I got that notion:
::: How It Causes Harm:
::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They
::: say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very
::: true, but only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled
::: conditions.
::
:: Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.

Right....which means that the chlorine itself remains to interact with other
things. Of course, small amounts may not do much....but it all ends up who
knows where, with everything else we all pour down the drain. I think this
is the issue, not that there are dioxins in the bleach itself.

::
::: Chlorine itself is
::: not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of chlorine such
::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. These
::: byproducts do not break down easily and readily, therefore they
::: bioaccumilate. This makes the water very toxic and carcinogenic.
::: This contaminated water is then discarded into streams and
::: waterways and then come in contact with other organic materials
::: where in some cases can build up and form an extremely toxic
::: chemical. These high potent chemicals have been linked to a
::: numerous amount of human health problems. Such include birth
::: defects, cancer, reproductive disorders and immune system
::: breakdowns. Bleach is a very harmful chemical which can have long
::: term effects on the environment and the people and animals in and
::: around them. "
:::
::: Which I got from he
:::
http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html

Martin W. Smith wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: The paragraph below is where I got that notion:
::: How It Causes Harm:
::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They
::: say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very
::: true, but only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled
::: conditions.
::
:: Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.

Right....which means that the chlorine itself remains to interact with other
things. Of course, small amounts may not do much....but it all ends up who
knows where, with everything else we all pour down the drain. I think this
is the issue, not that there are dioxins in the bleach itself.

::
::: Chlorine itself is
::: not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of chlorine such
::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. These
::: byproducts do not break down easily and readily, therefore they
::: bioaccumilate. This makes the water very toxic and carcinogenic.
::: This contaminated water is then discarded into streams and
::: waterways and then come in contact with other organic materials
::: where in some cases can build up and form an extremely toxic
::: chemical. These high potent chemicals have been linked to a
::: numerous amount of human health problems. Such include birth
::: defects, cancer, reproductive disorders and immune system
::: breakdowns. Bleach is a very harmful chemical which can have long
::: term effects on the environment and the people and animals in and
::: around them. "
:::
::: Which I got from he
:::
http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Martin W. Smith wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: The paragraph below is where I got that notion:
::: How It Causes Harm:
::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They
::: say that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very
::: true, but only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled
::: conditions.
::
:: Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.

Right....which means that the chlorine itself remains to interact with other
things. Of course, small amounts may not do much....but it all ends up who
knows where, with everything else we all pour down the drain. I think this
is the issue, not that there are dioxins in the bleach itself.

Chlorine is a gas at room temperature or anywhere near it. You don't
need to worry about chlorine except in high enough concentrations to
gag you.

If you don't drink bleach and you stay out of your local pool's room
where the chlorine tanks are kept, you will never have a problem.

What caused you to suddenly obsess about chlorine?